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As of recently, it has come to my attention that there are those who are still unconvinced of the confirmed connection between the War for Cybertron video games and Prime cartoon. In spite of all the official statements that the two exist within the same collective continuity, several have claimed there to be too many inconsistencies between the two for them to be the same reality.

Well, what exactly are these contradictions that are not and cannot be reconciled between the two? Having experienced both thoroughly enough, I see no conflicts that prevent the two from existing together in the same timeline. One takes place in the ancient past, and the other takes place in the present day. There exists enough time (millions and millions of years, to be precise) for any number of changes to have occurred between the two.

What exactly is it that's keeping everyone from seeing the bigger picture of these two being linked together in the same reality?

My only complaint is the differences with Dark Energon

Wing Saber II wrote:My only complaint is the differences with Dark Energon

The differences are due to the timeperiods. Dark Energon of the present acts a bit differently from the Dark Energon of the past.

It's also because the creators granted each medium enough leeway to let their stories be told without too much restriction.

What I don't like is how different the character designs are, in the case of Bumblebee, for example. WFC Bee is unmistakably a G1-styled Bee, while Prime Bee takes it's cues from the Movie aesthetic.

However, that is easy enough to overlook.

What isn't, IMHO, is how by the end of Exodus (which is the origin for both WFC and Prime) they know so much about Dark Energon and how it works, yet in Prime you'd swear it was a new discovery, the way that Megatron, Starscream, and Ratchet (among others) act around it.

I don't really buy the excuse that time has changed Dark Energon... but it's what were stuck with and I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of this excellent update to the franchise!

Autobot Strider wrote:What I don't like is how different the character designs are, in the case of Bumblebee, for example. WFC Bee is unmistakably a G1-styled Bee, while Prime Bee takes it's cues from the Movie aesthetic.

However, that is easy enough to overlook.

Yep, since body changes are not uncommon.

Autobot Strider wrote:What isn't, IMHO, is how by the end of Exodus (which is the origin for both WFC and Prime) they know so much about Dark Energon and how it works, yet in Prime you'd swear it was a new discovery, the way that Megatron, Starscream, and Ratchet (among others) act around it.

That was done so that new viewers who had neither played the games nor read the book could be properly introduced to the stuff. However, there's enough elbow room in their dialogue to make it not be in conflict with the events of the games/book, as Arcee compared the show's Dark Energon to the experiments performed by the Cons during the war (which, as seen in the book/games, involved Dark Energon).

Autobot Strider wrote:I don't really buy the excuse that time has changed Dark Energon... but it's what were stuck with and I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of this excellent update to the franchise!

There's also the possibility that the show's Dark Energon may be a different variant of the stuff from the book/games. The book referred to Dark Energon as the "Sparks of Unicron" and had it rely on living vessels. In the show, it is called the "Blood of Unicron" and can thrive on the dead. When I mentioned both this and the idea of the two being different variants to the show's creators at BotCon, they seemed to find the idea interesting enough. Don't know if anything'll come out of it, though.

Good points on the DE... I'll keep that in mind.

Especially the "explanation" needed for those unfamiliar with the WFC/Exodus description.

Thanks!

Sabrblade wrote:As of recently, it has come to my attention that there are those who are still unconvinced of the confirmed connection between the War for Cybertron video games and Prime cartoon. In spite of all the official statements that they two exist within the same collective continuity, several have claimed there to be too many inconsistencies between the two for them to be the same reality.

Well, what exactly are these contradictions that are not and cannot be reconciled between the two? Having experienced both thoroughly enough, I see no conflicts that prevent the two from existing together in the same timeline. One takes place in the ancient past ,and the other takes place in the present day. There exists enough time (millions and millions of years, to be precise) for any number of changes to have occurred between the two.

What exactly is it that's keeping everyone from seeing the bigger picture of these two being linked together in the same reality?

Well I havent watched much of Prime yet, so I cant speak to all the "supposed" contradictions others speak of, but I dont see how anyone casn just trust or aceept the official statements....particularly when Hasbro [or reperentives] have said similar things before and it hasnt stuck.

And there is one contradiction I feel cannot be reconciled.Correct me if I'm wrong bnut according to Hasbro the novel Exodus is in the same continuity as Prime and WFC.

Well in Exodus Sentinel Prime came before Optimus Prime.
In WFC Zeta Prime came before Optimus Prime.

And I think the excuse that his full name is Sentinel Zeta Prime was a cop out and a poor attempt to fix the issue.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And there is one contradiction I feel cannot be reconciled.Correct me if I'm wrong bnut according to Hasbro the novel Exodus is in the same continuity as Prime and WFC.

Well in Exodus Sentinel Prime came before Optimus Prime.
In WFC Zeta Prime came before Optimus Prime.

And I think the excuse that his full name is Sentinel Zeta Prime was a cop out and a poor attempt to fix the issue.

Cop out or not, it's still canon.

The Trasformers Vault book went on to add to this even further, saying that the "Sentinel" part is also a title itself, i.e. "sentinel, Zeta Prime". Exodus doesn't quite contradict this notion either, as the way the words "Sentinel Prime" are spoken could be used to refer to him by his two titles, as many people tend to shorten the name of whoever bears Prime rank to just "Prime". Sure, it's another retcon, but hey, canon is canon.

Sabrblade wrote:Cop out or not, it's still canon.

As far as I know "technically" it not canon....yet.

Its only "canon" when its said within a series or a publication.Not a question and answer session.

The Trasformers Vault book went on to add to this even further, saying that the "Sentinel" part is also a title itself, i.e. "sentinel, Zeta Prime". Exodus doesn't quite contradict this notion either, as the way the words "Sentinel Prime" are spoken could be used to refer to him by his two titles, as many people tend to shorten the name of whoever bears Prime rank to just "Prime". Sure, it's another retcon, but hey, canon is canon.

Was it mentioned in that book?

Havent had the cash to get it yet.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Was it mentioned in that book?

Havent had the cash to get it yet.

Page 150, first line of the last paragraph:

The escalating violence brought about by insurgents resulted in the disappearance of the Cybertronian leader and sentinel, Zeta Prime.

The way I see it now, referring to Zeta Prime as "Sentinel Zeta Prime" or "Sentinel Prime" could be like referring to Optimus Prime as "Commander Optimus Prime" or "Commander Prime". Maybe Zeta was so formal a guy that he distinctly had everyone in Exodus call him by his title and rank and never his first name. Whereas he'd be more lax in WFC, since everyone called him "Zeta" there.

Sabrblade wrote:Page 150, first line of the last paragraph:

The escalating violence brought about by insurgents resulted in the disappearance of the Cybertronian leader and sentinel, Zeta Prime.

The way I see it now, referring to Zeta Prime as "Sentinel Zeta Prime" or "Sentinel Prime" could be like referring to Optimus Prime as "Commander Optimus Prime" or "Commander Prime". Maybe Zeta was so formal a guy that he distinctly had everyone in Exodus call him by his title and rank and never his first name. Whereas he'd be more lax in WFC, since everyone called him "Zeta" there.

So, the excuse is now canon, but still weak.

Also, I read somewhere that in the "War for Cybertron comic" ,that came with pre-orders of the game, mentions the disappearance of Sentinel,and refers to Sentinel as Zeta's predecessor.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Also, I read somewhere that in the "War for Cybertron comic" ,that came with pre-orders of the game, mentions the disappearance of Sentinel,and refers to Sentinel as Zeta's predecessor.

That was written on TFWiki, but it needs to be rewritten, as I picked up that comic last year and all it says of "Sentinel Prime" was what was said of him in the same scene in Exodus:

"The invasion of Altihex Station and kidnapping of Sentinel Prime?"

-Page 7

Later, on page 10, when they show a flashback to Sentinel Prime leading the Cybertronians against the Quintesson invaders, he is depicted with Zeta Prime's game design, same color scheme and all, indicating them to be the same guy.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Also, I read somewhere that in the "War for Cybertron comic" ,that came with pre-orders of the game, mentions the disappearance of Sentinel,and refers to Sentinel as Zeta's predecessor.

That was written on TFWiki, but it needs to be rewritten, as I picked up that comic last year and all it says of "Sentinel Prime" was what was said of him in the same scene in Exodus:

"The invasion of Altihex Station and kidnapping of Sentinel Prime?"

-Page 7

Later, on page 10, when they show a flashback to Sentinel Prime leading the Cybertronians against the Quintesson invaders, he is depicted with Zeta Prime's game design, same color scheme and all, indicating them to be the same guy.

Well I'll take your word for it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Well I'll take your word for it.

Yeah, it's too bad this comic was so limited in its release and that not many have scanned much of its content (aside from a few pics on TFWiki). I was fortunate to find mine on the secondary market. Maybe if we meet up at a future BotCon, I could bring it and show it to you so you too can experience this comic's abridged retelling of Exodus chapters 12-15 story.

I've gone and edited that TFWiki page to rephrase that sentence to avoid such confusion. Sentinel and Zeta are the same guy as far as the comic's concerned.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Well I'll take your word for it.

Yeah, it's too bad this comic was so limited in its release and that not many have scanned much of its content (aside from a few pics on TFWiki). I was fortunate to find mine on the secondary market. Maybe if we meet up at a future BotCon, I could bring it and show it to you so you too can experience this comic's abridged retelling of Exodus chapters 12-15 story.

I've gone and edited that TFWiki page to rephrase that sentence to avoid such confusion. Sentinel and Zeta are the same guy as far as the comic's concerned.

that would be kool

To be Fairly honest.

TF Prime isn't a 100% continuation nor does it appear to be in the 100% universe of the war for cybertron video game.

From the way I view the TF Prime cartoon series,designs & toy line. the TF Prime toy line/cartoon/designs appear to be a FRANKENSTEIN type TF toy line/cartoon/designs.

WHY DO I think TF prime's cartoon/toys/designs is Frankenstein? bECAUSE TF prime borrowed a lot from the movie verse as far as some of the similar more realistically styled alt modes went. the mute bumblebee idea in TF Prime came from the movie verse. TF Prime borrowed some stuff from animated like bulkhead. TF Prime borrowed some origin story ideas from war for cybertron video game.

I've watched all the TF Prime cartoon episodes. and at times the TF Prime cartoon feels a bit like the Animated TF Cartoon. at times it feels like hasbro is trying to slowly morph TF Prime into the un-finished season/plot ideas that TF animated cartoon didn't get a chance to finish. I'M JUST hoping hasbro released the cancelled animated season 4 leader sized tripple changer maruader megatron toy as a TF Prime megatron toy.

deathy wrote:To be Fairly honest.

TF Prime isn't a 100% continuation nor does it appear to be in the 100% universe of the war for cybertron video game.

Of course it isn't a direct continuation becuase there is a TON of stuff that happens between the two. The two are still connected, though. It's the same kind of connection that exists between G1 and Beast Machines. both exist in the same continuity, with one taking place in the far past and the other occurring in the far future.

deathy wrote:From the way I view the TF Prime cartoon series,designs & toy line. the TF Prime toy line/cartoon/designs appear to be a FRANKENSTEIN type TF toy line/cartoon/designs.

WHY DO I think TF prime's cartoon/toys/designs is Frankenstein? bECAUSE TF prime borrowed a lot from the movie verse as far as some of the similar more realistically styled alt modes went. the mute bumblebee idea in TF Prime came from the movie verse. TF Prime borrowed some stuff from animated like bulkhead. TF Prime borrowed some origin story ideas from war for cybertron video game.

As did WFC and Exodus. Exodus especially borrowed from other series just as Prime has, and it tells the same basic story as WFC.

deathy wrote:I've watched all the TF Prime cartoon episodes. and at times the TF Prime cartoon feels a bit like the Animated TF Cartoon. at times it feels like hasbro is trying to slowly morph TF Prime into the un-finished season/plot ideas that TF animated cartoon didn't get a chance to finish. I'M JUST hoping hasbro released the cancelled animated season 4 leader sized tripple changer maruader megatron toy as a TF Prime megatron toy.

Sadly, this toy will *never* be released, as stated in the Allspark Almanac II:

Unfortunately, as much as we would like to be able to bring these toys to market, the reality is that these prototypes will simply never be mass produced. They are essentially unfinished ideas, notions that will never be completed. We share these exclusive images here as a glimpse of what might have been.

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:To be Fairly honest.

TF Prime isn't a 100% continuation nor does it appear to be in the 100% universe of the war for cybertron video game.

Of course it isn't a direct continuation becuase there is a TON of stuff that happens between the two. The two are still connected, though. It's the same kind of connection that exists between G1 and Beast Machines. both exit in the same continuity, with one taking place in the far past and the other occurring in the far future.

deathy wrote:From the way I view the TF Prime cartoon series,designs & toy line. the TF Prime toy line/cartoon/designs appear to be a FRANKENSTEIN type TF toy line/cartoon/designs.

WHY DO I think TF prime's cartoon/toys/designs is Frankenstein? bECAUSE TF prime borrowed a lot from the movie verse as far as some of the similar more realistically styled alt modes went. the mute bumblebee idea in TF Prime came from the movie verse. TF Prime borrowed some stuff from animated like bulkhead. TF Prime borrowed some origin story ideas from war for cybertron video game.

As did WFc and Exodus. Exodus especially borrowed from other series just as Prime has, and it tells the same basic story as WFC.

deathy wrote:I've watched all the TF Prime cartoon episodes. and at times the TF Prime cartoon feels a bit like the Animated TF Cartoon. at times it feels like hasbro is trying to slowly morph TF Prime into the un-finished season/plot ideas that TF animated cartoon didn't get a chance to finish. I'M JUST hoping hasbro released the cancelled animated season 4 leader sized tripple changer maruader megatron toy as a TF Prime megatron toy.

Sadly, this toy will *never* be released, as stated in the Allspark Almanac II:

Unfortunately, as much as we would like to be able to bring these toys to market, the reality is that these prototypes will simply never be mass produced. They are essentially unfinished ideas, notions that will never be completed. We share these exclusive images here as a glimpse of what might have been.

Is their any way a bunch of TF internet fans can convince the 3RD party TF toy companies to create a season 4 animated Leader sized tripple changer maruader megatron toy.

Personally I'd buy a season 4 animated maruader megatron leader sized toy in a heart beat from a 3rd party TF toy company.

deathy wrote:Is their any way a bunch of TF internet fans can convince the 3RD party TF toy companies to create a season 4 animated Leader sized tripple changer maruader megatron toy.

Personally I'd buy a season 4 animated maruader megatron leader sized toy in a heart beat from a 3rd party TF toy company.

Some 3rd party groups are already making Animated stuff, but this isn't the place to talk of them.

Let us return to the main topic.

Sabrblade wrote:Let us return to the main topic.

Question.

Someone on a different topic/site claims Optimus was the first Prime to ever to posses the matrix in the WFC lore.

Is that definitively stated?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Let us return to the main topic.

Question.

Someone on a different topic/site claims Optimus was the first Prime to ever to posses the matrix in the WFC lore.

Is that definitively stated?

Short answer: No. Prima was a Prime, and the Matrix was originally his, being used as the hilt of his sword, the Star Saber.


Long answer: I know it was never brought up in the game, but I can't tell if Sentinel Zeta Prime ever bore the Matrix or not in Exodus. I know he did not have it at all during the book's events, and that it had been missing for a long time, but it's hard to tell whether or not he "ever" had it in the past. The Core does say that SZP "proved unworthy" of the Matrix for far too long, but the way its worded makes it difficult to tell if that means he was unworthy to ever bear it, or if he was unworthy to bear it for as long as he did. It may have said one way or the other in another part of the book, but that's a lot of pages to go searching for one bit of text without some sort of guide to help look for it. I consulted my original notes I used for my Exodus Vs. project, and there's nothing in there about SZP ever having owned the Matrix either.

Either way, Prima was the first Prime to own the Matrix.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Let us return to the main topic.

Question.

Someone on a different topic/site claims Optimus was the first Prime to ever to posses the matrix in the WFC lore.

Is that definitively stated?

Short answer: No. Prima was a Prime, and the Matrix was originally his, being used as the hilt of his sword, the Star Saber.


Long answer: I know it was never brought up in the game, but I can't tell if Sentinel Zeta Prime ever bore the Matrix or not in Exodus. I know he did not have it at all during the book's events, and that it had been missing for a long time, but it's hard to tell whether or not he "ever" had it in the past. The Core does say that SZP "proved unworthy" of the Matrix for far too long, but the way its worded makes it difficult to tell if that means he was unworthy to ever bear it, or if he was unworthy to bear it for as long as he did. It may have said one way or the other in another part of the book, but that's a lot of pages to go searching for one bit of text without some sort of guide to help look for it. I consulted my original notes I used for my Exodus Vs. project, and there's nothing in there about SZP ever having owned the Matrix either.

Either way, Prima was the first Prime to own the Matrix.

thank you

Necrobump.

Figured I'd reanimate this topic since episode 26 of Prime made direct references references to WFC and Exodus. Not to mention all the stuff we've seen for FoC (like the Nemesis having its Prime cartoon design) and the release of Exiles (which contains more Prime stuff like Bulkhead, Makeshift, Wheeljack as a Wrecker whom Optimus never met/knew, etc.).

So, who's still unconvinced that WFC and Prime are related?

Sabrblade wrote:So, who's still unconvinced that WFC and Prime are related?

related is a broad term.

It can be said that every TF series is related.

But you have already proven that they cant be in the same continuity.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:So, who's still unconvinced that WFC and Prime are related?

related is a broad term.

It can be said that every TF series is related.

But you have already proven that they cant be in the same continuity.

"Canonically conected", is what I mean.