Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

So I got this idea while listening to the last podcast (previous to today's) when those fine fellows were discussing MTMTE 50. I felt that convo ended way to soon, so here we are. Needless to say, if you aren't caught up on your reading, spoilers will be found here. This is your only warning.


So tomorrow issue 51 arrives, and Megatron's story moves a step closer to a pivotal moment, perhaps even the final one, and a strong chance the last good story before the Hasbro forced Titans Return ruins everything. There are many questions still swirling, and I feel we should try to answer them before they get answered for us.

First up, is Megatron really changed? We just had it dropped on us that the fools energon that the Autobots places Megs on can alter personalities. This is, imho, a pretty big damn deal. Megatron is many, many things, but an Autobit is not one of them. Maybe back in his mining days, but life ground that out of him. Suddenly, Bumblebee, a bot Megatron has shown nothing but scorn for, dies in front of him, and he is a new bot. Sometimes that can do it though. Megs didn't start out evil, and I think a part of him has always been repulsed by it. That said, he is still **** Megatron. He is no pacifist pushover. The idea of a personality dampened makes perfect sense to me. I think Megs will get an injection of real energon, and Tarn is in for a hell of a fight.

Second, will Megs survive? With Hasbro forcing the Titan Return storyline, I can't see them letting IDW kill off, even temporarily, one of their biggest characters. I think his survival is a given, so really we need to ask: which Megatron will survive? The new happy one? Or the good old badass version?

That's enough from me for the moment. It's late, and I'm tired. Discuss away, my friends.

Megatron has "died" before and came back. I don't see him being permanently dead. That having been said I think he needs a rest. He needs to vanish for a while and maybe return after the Prime War trilogy is over and makes his return an epic event. Has returned to the reclaim the Decepticon throne or is he a noble Autobot warrior from now on?

I don't see anything not badass about new version, especially after MTMTE51 - revieewwwww: idw-transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye-51-discussion-thread-p1776423.php#p1776423


A bit of a longer answer, still not spoiling comics:

Pacifism does not make him a pushover, and what he is going through right now is actually quite a test of will, strength and control that he would probably just have blasted himself out of just a couple of months ago. I like this new direction. There's an actual path of redemption that has wider repercussions (Tarn, Getaway and his side), rather than the initial 'oh ok then, he's a fascist tyrant that we somehow now accept as good'.

They're working at making him feel things, making me feel things about him, and using the narrative to show at least two of those sides too. And it works, for me.

Before 50, I was fully with you on not being convinced by Megatron's damascene conversion shtick, whether due to the motivations of the writers or the character himself.

However, as you rightly point out, the Fools' Energon changes that considerably. Half suspect this is something dropped in by James Roberts to sway the doubters unconvinced by his change of heart; to make it more believable and seem less capricious.

As for your other point - Is Megatron part of the Titan's Return toy line?

If he's not.. I dunno, has Hasbro any history of killing off toy characters who aren't currently on the shelves? I'll have to check

Time will tell.

I'm not caught up to issue 51 yet, as I don't read MTMTE by single issue, I get the trades. So far, I've read volume 8, whichever issue that ends on. #44, I think. Anyway, I thought Megatron was pretending the whole time, a very clever ruse on his part, but to what end, I had no idea. Until I read the issue where they go to the planet with all the statues to the characters with the flowers of life energy of those that character killed. And they show Megatron's statue in an endless field of those flowers. And then a close-up of his face. It was at that moment when I was convinced he had changed. So either he really did change, or Roberts has done a hell of a job manipulating me through the character.

Having said that, I always thought of Megatron as "the bad guy" until the DJD came along, who, ironically, were put in place by Megatron himself. But now they hunt him, and are all despicable. I don't know how it turns out, and I won't until I buy the trade with the issue in it, but I hope Megatron kills Tarn. I do find it interesting and curious that the quintessential "Bad Transformer" has been changed drastically, and it has a lot of possibilities. But Overlord (IMO the only one who can measure up to Megatron in evil) is dead, so who would replace Megatron as the main antagonist? Starscream? Hardly. Shockwave? That would be great. I always thought Shockwave was better suited to be the bad guy, as he lacks emotion and is simply acting out of cold logic. But he never seemed to have gotten his due as far as the ultimate bad guy, except in DW G1 volume 2. Megatron's emotions (even if they are negatives such as rage and jealousy and greed) make him vulnerable. Shockwave is just a near-flawless killing machine.

However, if Megatron does kill Tarn, what does it do for him? Does that take him back to the old Megatron? Or just makes his fight to be decent much harder, yet still winnable? There's material for another 50 issues right there. I would love for it to be Rodimus who kills Tarn, perhaps saving Megatron and truly showing him the way to the light, (no pun intended) but that's just my bias towards my namesake speaking.

And Va'al, I have to disagree with you on 1 point. In this case, being a pacifist does make the character a pushover. When it comes to facing off against someone like Tarn when his life is on the line, it's either kill or be killed, and if Megatron was a pacifist, he wouldn't have a chance. But the old Megatron? That would be (or is, I haven't read the issue yet) a showdown worth including in the issue.

Rodimus Prime wrote:
And Va'al, I have to disagree with you on 1 point. In this case, being a pacifist does make the character a pushover. When it comes to facing off against someone like Tarn when his life is on the line, it's either kill or be killed, and if Megatron was a pacifist, he wouldn't have a chance. But the old Megatron? That would be (or is, I haven't read the issue yet) a showdown worth including in the issue.

See, that's where I think it could probably be one heck of an issue, because of this new status quo!
I mean, we've seen the cover for MTMTE 52, which shows one side of that encounter:



Also, think of the Obi-Wan/Vader confrontation, or even Luke/Vader at the end, when the two Jedi side are yes confronting the Sith, but both resign to a pacifist/non-violent solution - one dies, one has external intervention, but I wouldn't call them pushovers by a long shot.

(Side note: The Jedi are not pacifists, they're hypocrites. My point still sort of stands. )

Dr Va'al wrote:

Is it just me, or is that a sick smile creeping onto Megatron's face? Like he's enjoying the pain and brutality? Yeah, it's probably just me...

Also, think of the Obi-Wan/Vader confrontation

Are you referring to the end of Revenge of The Sith or the end of A New Hope? In Sith, there was nothing pacifist about their fight. Yes, Obi-Wan refrained from actually killing Vader, but he did dismember him and leave him to die. If he was truly compassionate, he wouldn't have left him there to be found by the Emperor and complete his turn into a Sith. In some ways, that's even more sadistic than if he just chopped his head off and ended him then and there. In Hope, choosing not to fight was the more pacifist option for Obi-Wan, but I think you're comparing apples to oranges, for 2 reasons. Obi-Wan was portrayed as a benevolent character (despite my previous mention of his cruelty to Vader in Sith) from the beginning, one who never wavered in his beliefs. Megatron was not the same way. He may not have started out truly evil, but had been transformed (pardon the pun) into an evil character, much like Vader, not Obi-Wan. And Obi-Wan was at peace with ending his physical form, as he knew he would be 1 with The Force. Megatron doesn't have this option. If he allows Tarn to kill him, as far as we know, that's it. He's dead. I don't remember anything being mentioned about the afterlife in MTMTE.

or even Luke/Vader at the end, when the two Jedi side are yes confronting the Sith, but both resign to a pacifist/non-violent solution - one dies, one has external intervention, but I wouldn't call them pushovers by a long shot.

They threw the Emperor into the center of the Death Star's power source, resulting in a massive explosion, killing the Emperor and all the Stormtroopers stationed on the Death Star. That's not non-violent. However, much like Megatron's situation, The Emperor didn't give Luke or Vader a choice. It was kill or be killed.

As I said in brackets, 'sort of still stands'.

I was more referring to the fact that, at this moment in time, I can see the parallels between A New Hope's Obi-Wan vs Vader confrontation. In more ways than one, really, if you read #51 (which I won't spoil here, of course)!

Yes, there are some significant differences, but I don't think narratively we're that far off: mentor who had something cruel about him, teaching a student who takes things a bit too far, the latter wears a mask which may or may not have to do with the former (mutilation vs belief, as far as we know), the ex-master now a non-violent (so to speak for Megatron, he still directs violent action in the series even after his decision) pacifist, with very little choice - as you rightly point out.

I dunno, I don't see any pushing over there. It's a valid choice, a good one overall, a bad one perhaps for the fight to come, and I see nothing weak in it.

Dr Va'al wrote:Yes, there are some significant differences, but I don't think narratively we're that far off: mentor who had something cruel about him, teaching a student who takes things a bit too far, the latter wears a mask which may or may not have to do with the former (mutilation vs belief, as far as we know), the ex-master now a non-violent (so to speak for Megatron, he still directs violent action in the series even after his decision) pacifist, with very little choice - as you rightly point out.

Okay, so we're speaking of the confrontation in A New Hope. I have yet to read issue 51, so I will take your word on the similarities. All my points were based on my assumptions of what would happen and what I would like to happen. And yeah, Megatron is a pacifist, now. But I go back to my original point, and reference the comic cover you posted as well: what about when Tarn puts him in a corner and there's only 1 way out?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Yes, there are some significant differences, but I don't think narratively we're that far off: mentor who had something cruel about him, teaching a student who takes things a bit too far, the latter wears a mask which may or may not have to do with the former (mutilation vs belief, as far as we know), the ex-master now a non-violent (so to speak for Megatron, he still directs violent action in the series even after his decision) pacifist, with very little choice - as you rightly point out.

Okay, so we're speaking of the confrontation in A New Hope. I have yet to read issue 51, so I will take your word on the similarities. All my points were based on my assumptions of what would happen and what I would like to happen. And yeah, Megatron is a pacifist, now. But I go back to my original point, and reference the comic cover you posted as well: what about when Tarn puts him in a corner and there's only 1 way out?

Personally (and I've seen and heard this around the fanosphere too), I'd still go with the Obi-Wanness: he won't come out of it alive. There's been a lot of redemption building, I wouldn't put it past Roberts to remove him from the game before that comes to full fruition.

I apologize in advance for the spelling errors to be found. I'm experimenting with plugging a keyboard into my tablet, and it apperntly turns off spell check, and I'm a terrible speller.

Dr Va'al wrote:I don't see anything not badass about new version, especially after MTMTE51 - revieewwwww: idw-transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye-51-discussion-thread-p1776423.php#p1776423


A bit of a longer answer, still not spoiling comics:

Pacifism does not make him a pushover, and what he is going through right now is actually quite a test of will, strength and control that he would probably just have blasted himself out of just a couple of months ago. I like this new direction. There's an actual path of redemption that has wider repercussions (Tarn, Getaway and his side), rather than the initial 'oh ok then, he's a fascist tyrant that we somehow now accept as good'.

They're working at making him feel things, making me feel things about him, and using the narrative to show at least two of those sides too. And it works, for me.

I see the pacifist point, Ijust don't agree with it. Good or evil, Megatron is a leader, and as such (totally only in my opinion here) and as such, he doesn't get the option of being a pacifist. When you have strength and power, you have a responsibiliy, a duty to use it to fight against whats wrong. If Megatron doesn't fight, though he is able, that just makes him weak, or at least hightly irresponsible and selfish. He is putting his personal beliefs as more important than helping and protecting those under him.

I'm afraid that might sound insulting, and I dont' mean it to, but I don't know how else to word it, or even if I want to. I understand the principle of pacifism, I just don't agree with it. I don't think its a pratical thing when reality comes knocking. I'm sure Megatron's internal strugle and fight is real, and requires quite a bit of courage, but its a wasted battle.

The Autobots arn't heroes because they sat around and refused to use violence agaist the decepticons. They are heroes because they saw evil, and took the fight to it. Now, if Megatron is truely reformed (whcih I'm not fully convinced of yet-more below), then it is time for him to stand up, and take the fight to Tarn and his merry band of killers. its tiem for him to earn his autobrand. Megatron won't reverse his legacy of being one of the galaxy's most vile conquerors by being nice. Some times violence is necessary, right, and just.

All that said, yes, I too am enjoying reading about Megatron starting to feel things. I find this to be an extremely engaging and original story. The idea of Megatron, who we all grew up with being the personification of evil, now walking the path of the good guy is facsinating to me. I'm still not fully convinced that his converstion is fully legit, however. Mainly for 3 reasons:

1) His first conversation with Ravage on the Lost Light

2) He had Ravage steal one of Brainstorm's time-cases

3) The resent revelation of his Knock off energon altering personalities

I do think his intention to go good is legit, but the old Megatron is still in there. Millions of years of evil deeds don't go away that easy. Only time, and the next few issues will tell. I look forward to the journey.

Another question we need to adress is this: Does Megatron even deserve redemption? Or is Getaway in the right?

I don't think Megatron is going to die, and I hope he doesn't. His storyline has been phenomenal and I am very happy with what they have done with him. People are actually worried about him! People actually like him! And I think that is incredible.

Dr Va'al wrote:Personally (and I've seen and heard this around the fanosphere too), I'd still go with the Obi-Wanness: he won't come out of it alive. There's been a lot of redemption building, I wouldn't put it past Roberts to remove him from the game before that comes to full fruition.

If this will be the case, what is the point of his current arc of character development? How will he find redemption if he is killed, and especially if he lets himself get killed? The only way it would count for something is if he died saving either some or all of the Lost Light's crew. Hell, even saving 1 single bot would redeem him somewhat, as it's something the old Megatron would never do. I still think your Obi-Wan analogy is comparing apples and oranges, as Obi-Wan allowed himself to be struck down, knowing he would become 1 with the Force. If there was no afterlife for the Jedi, do you think he would have just stood there and took the killing swing anyway, or fought until either he or Vader were dead?

In any case, I have to side with Ironhidensh based on what I know so far and for the 3 reasons he mentioned. I actually don't remember what Megatron and Ravage talked about, I just remember it being an "uh-HUH" kind of moment. But the briefcase is definitely a way out for Megatron, if he figures out how to use it, and let's not forget, if I have this correctly, it's programmed to go back to the point in time right before Megatron came online. Also, once that decaf Energon is purged from his system and he's no longer docile from its effects, does it bring back the aggression that the old Megatron had? If that's the case, I'm expecting Megatron to rip Tarn's fusion cannons right off his arm and use them to kill him. Ironically. Then Megatron will return to being the main bad guy for the rest of MTMTE. However, if he dies, then I don't see any other main villain in MTMTE besides the DJD, and they're not out to kill Autobots, they just do that for the fun of it on the side. So do we just go back to Rodimus and crew having adventures and getting into trouble all across the universe on their way to finding the Knights of Cybertron? Or will the theory that Rung is actually Unicron come to realization and we'll have Unicron as the main villain once again?

Throughout history there have been generals or soldiers (or even celebrities) who defected or changed sides. Often they've been seen as heroes on the side they ended up with - in war there can be a respect for your enemy - death is part of war and it's accepted.

But where is that line? No one would have been letting Hitler on their side, right?

But MTMTE is pulling it off - he is believably tired, he's figuring out old biases, and it's not a cakewalk for him or any who choose to not hate him.

I want one of two things to happen, just because I can't see any other way for his arc to be believable

1 - He continues to grow and serve as a sort of storytelling totem for how Autobots and Decepticons differ, of how or if consequences can or should be avoided, of how the totality of war can be too big to grasp until suddenly one does.

2 - The Autobots/Lost Lighters continue to mess with him and push him and make stupid political moves and he gives up and decides he wants to kill them all because they are all hypocrites!

I was under the impression that the fools energon was just a red herring of sorts (I'm expecting something on the lines of a placebo) and it was more there to make a point about our use of medicine to achieve effects like that.

I would be very disappointed with Roberts if something like that undid all of what megatron has gone through.

As for other bad guys out there, tryest and his lot are still out there, and deathsarus could escape and vow revenge or we could get new characters brought in. Rung could even turn out to be a bad guy!

So. Time has passed, and things have happened.

Megatron of (semi) old came back, and ass was smashed. Then, he kinda of abandoned his power again, proving that the enternal struggle within, despite his scheming, is real.

We also saw, through his reactions to the death of Ravage (I'm still salty about that one ) and the arrival of Terminus, that Megatron really can and really does care for others.

Now, he has been dropped into an alternate universe that literally is every single thing he fought against before loosing his way. Where does he go from here?

Ironhidensh wrote:So. Time has passed, and things have happened.

Megatron of (semi) old came back, and ass was smashed. Then, he kinda of abandoned his power again, proving that the enternal struggle within, despite his scheming, is real.

We also saw, through his reactions to the death of Ravage (I'm still salty about that one ) and the arrival of Terminus, that Megatron really can and really does care for others.

Now, he has been dropped into an alternate universe that literally is every single thing he fought against before loosing his way. Where does he go from here?

I will answer, and look forward to the conversation, post- Lost Light #2. Given what happens in the book.

Va'al wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:So. Time has passed, and things have happened.

Megatron of (semi) old came back, and ass was smashed. Then, he kinda of abandoned his power again, proving that the enternal struggle within, despite his scheming, is real.

We also saw, through his reactions to the death of Ravage (I'm still salty about that one ) and the arrival of Terminus, that Megatron really can and really does care for others.

Now, he has been dropped into an alternate universe that literally is every single thing he fought against before loosing his way. Where does he go from here?

I will answer, and look forward to the conversation, post- Lost Light #2. Given what happens in the book.

You are a filthy dirty tease, you know that? Maybe Burn was right about you.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Va'al wrote:I will answer, and look forward to the conversation, post- Lost Light #2. Given what happens in the book.

You are a filthy dirty tease, you know that? Maybe Burn was right about you.

I'll also talk about it post-LL2. I plan to touch on Megs in my review a bit, and I have some thoughts that are growing within my brain.

Another dirty tease. Patients is not one of my virtues. I really need Wednesday to get here.

Well then. Not quite sure how I feel about that.

Ironhidensh wrote:Well then. Not quite sure how I feel about that.

Ha! Elaborate?

Va'al wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Well then. Not quite sure how I feel about that.

Ha! Elaborate?

Still processing. I need to reread (issue 1 as well) when I get home.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Va'al wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Well then. Not quite sure how I feel about that.

Ha! Elaborate?

Still processing. I need to reread (issue 1 as well) when I get home.

Will wait for you here.

But also post this, because of what you called me earlier...