GuyIncognito wrote:I think you're overthinking it. If you're ranking the top Wheeljack toys, then the list should only include toys packaged/sold with the name Wheeljack. That'a a simple criterion that will make things easy for you. Related toys that aren't technically "Wheeljack" could be menioned in the "Honorable Mentions".
william-james88 wrote:GuyIncognito wrote:I think you're overthinking it. If you're ranking the top Wheeljack toys, then the list should only include toys packaged/sold with the name Wheeljack. That'a a simple criterion that will make things easy for you. Related toys that aren't technically "Wheeljack" could be menioned in the "Honorable Mentions".
Thanks for the input. But does that mean Beast Wars Inferno would be on a top 5 Inferno list?
DangerousFat wrote:william-james88 wrote:GuyIncognito wrote:I think you're overthinking it. If you're ranking the top Wheeljack toys, then the list should only include toys packaged/sold with the name Wheeljack. That'a a simple criterion that will make things easy for you. Related toys that aren't technically "Wheeljack" could be menioned in the "Honorable Mentions".
Thanks for the input. But does that mean Beast Wars Inferno would be on a top 5 Inferno list?
I feel like you're trying to be thick here. lol
MrBlack wrote:As you said, when making a Wheeljack list, the Armada character of that name wouldn't make the list because he shares nothing in common with his namesake.
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote: I mean, I'd be a bit miffed if you left Armada Wheeljack off the list of 'best Wheeljack' characters.
william-james88 wrote:W
Like lets say I am making a top 5 Wheeljack toys list, what counts?
Armada Wheeljack? Armada Downshift? Cybertron Downshift? Movie Q?
What about Smokescreen? He's a fairlady z guy, but in Prime he becomes a totally different character. So would he still count in a list of best Smokescreen toys?
Just things I have been wondering and wanted your input!
RAR wrote:william-james88 wrote:W
Like lets say I am making a top 5 Wheeljack toys list, what counts?
Armada Wheeljack? Armada Downshift? Cybertron Downshift? Movie Q?
What about Smokescreen? He's a fairlady z guy, but in Prime he becomes a totally different character. So would he still count in a list of best Smokescreen toys?
Just things I have been wondering and wanted your input!
Prime Smokescreen might count in a rather convoluted way as being bundled in (as would the Cybertron mould repaint version) as Prime Smokescreen's alt deco is based on the Binaltech version and the Binaltech Smokescreen surely counts - I'd say Silverstreak counts as Bluestreak too (even the Stealthmode one).
As for Jackie the specific ones you mention were actually also sold a Wheeljack (aside from Cybertron Downshift- a criminal oversight on Takara's part there).
Armada Wheeljack can count if you want him too or you can say he's "Rampage" if you prefer.
Energon Downshift was actually sold as Wheeljack in Japan so no problems there. (i'm not so keen on the Micron Wheeljack being included though - but that is just me) Movie Que is also fine as likewise he has a Wheeljack version too - including one with a white deco and a more normal Wheeljack head.
william-james88 wrote:RAR wrote:william-james88 wrote:W
Like lets say I am making a top 5 Wheeljack toys list, what counts?
Armada Wheeljack? Armada Downshift? Cybertron Downshift? Movie Q?
What about Smokescreen? He's a fairlady z guy, but in Prime he becomes a totally different character. So would he still count in a list of best Smokescreen toys?
Just things I have been wondering and wanted your input!
Prime Smokescreen might count in a rather convoluted way as being bundled in (as would the Cybertron mould repaint version) as Prime Smokescreen's alt deco is based on the Binaltech version and the Binaltech Smokescreen surely counts - I'd say Silverstreak counts as Bluestreak too (even the Stealthmode one).
As for Jackie the specific ones you mention were actually also sold a Wheeljack (aside from Cybertron Downshift- a criminal oversight on Takara's part there).
Armada Wheeljack can count if you want him too or you can say he's "Rampage" if you prefer.
Energon Downshift was actually sold as Wheeljack in Japan so no problems there. (i'm not so keen on the Micron Wheeljack being included though - but that is just me) Movie Que is also fine as likewise he has a Wheeljack version too - including one with a white deco and a more normal Wheeljack head.
I thought armada wheeljack was supposed to be sideswipe.
william-james88 wrote:MrBlack wrote:As you said, when making a Wheeljack list, the Armada character of that name wouldn't make the list because he shares nothing in common with his namesake.RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote: I mean, I'd be a bit miffed if you left Armada Wheeljack off the list of 'best Wheeljack' characters.
Theres no way I will be able to please all of you.
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:william-james88 wrote:MrBlack wrote:As you said, when making a Wheeljack list, the Armada character of that name wouldn't make the list because he shares nothing in common with his namesake.RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote: I mean, I'd be a bit miffed if you left Armada Wheeljack off the list of 'best Wheeljack' characters.
Theres no way I will be able to please all of you.
Exactly! So just do what you feel to be right.
william-james88 wrote:RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:william-james88 wrote:MrBlack wrote:As you said, when making a Wheeljack list, the Armada character of that name wouldn't make the list because he shares nothing in common with his namesake.RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote: I mean, I'd be a bit miffed if you left Armada Wheeljack off the list of 'best Wheeljack' characters.
Theres no way I will be able to please all of you.
Exactly! So just do what you feel to be right.
Ok then and maybe you answered before but do you see movie sudeswipe as a version on Sideswipe?
Optimum Supreme wrote:IMO, the name's less important than the theme of the character.
Thus RID Grimlock wouldn't count, not being a T-Rex, but rather a construction vehicle. But movie Grimlock in all his too many variations would.
Energon Downshift is absolutely intended as Wheeljack, Hasbro just already (mis)used that name for silly (TM?) reasons and had to come up with something else.
Is Armada Smokescreen to be considered along side all the racing car Smokescreens? NO WAY JOSE!
Insurgent wrote:Optimum Supreme wrote:IMO, the name's less important than the theme of the character.
Thus RID Grimlock wouldn't count, not being a T-Rex, but rather a construction vehicle. But movie Grimlock in all his too many variations would.
Energon Downshift is absolutely intended as Wheeljack, Hasbro just already (mis)used that name for silly (TM?) reasons and had to come up with something else.
Is Armada Smokescreen to be considered along side all the racing car Smokescreens? NO WAY JOSE!
G1, Beast Wars, RID15 and Movie Scorpinoks. What about those? Completely different characters but the same theme of turning into scorpions. Would you put those all together?
Kurona wrote:I wouldn't really call that a 'theme'. It's a bit like saying G1 Spinister, Classics Mini-Con Divebomb and Energon Bulkhead all share a theme because they all turn into a helicopter. And at least they turn into the same type of helicopter! All four of those Scorponoks have very different things going on for their Scorpion modes and the RiD one in particular was lauded for having a very different and unique transformation scheme to most scorpion Transformers.
william-james88 wrote:Kurona wrote:I wouldn't really call that a 'theme'. It's a bit like saying G1 Spinister, Classics Mini-Con Divebomb and Energon Bulkhead all share a theme because they all turn into a helicopter. And at least they turn into the same type of helicopter! All four of those Scorponoks have very different things going on for their Scorpion modes and the RiD one in particular was lauded for having a very different and unique transformation scheme to most scorpion Transformers.
yeah but unlike the example of the helicopters, these all have the same name: Scorponok. So that changes things.
Also, no worries about Beast Wars Prowl, that toy wouldnt be on any top list.
Kurona wrote:Insurgent wrote:Optimum Supreme wrote:IMO, the name's less important than the theme of the character.
Thus RID Grimlock wouldn't count, not being a T-Rex, but rather a construction vehicle. But movie Grimlock in all his too many variations would.
Energon Downshift is absolutely intended as Wheeljack, Hasbro just already (mis)used that name for silly (TM?) reasons and had to come up with something else.
Is Armada Smokescreen to be considered along side all the racing car Smokescreens? NO WAY JOSE!
G1, Beast Wars, RID15 and Movie Scorpinoks. What about those? Completely different characters but the same theme of turning into scorpions. Would you put those all together?
I wouldn't really call that a 'theme'. It's a bit like saying G1 Spinister, Classics Mini-Con Divebomb and Energon Bulkhead all share a theme because they all turn into a helicopter. And at least they turn into the same type of helicopter! All four of those Scorponoks have very different things going on for their Scorpion modes and the RiD one in particular was lauded for having a very different and unique transformation scheme to most scorpion Transformers.
What I think Optimum was getting at is that visual cues and character/personality aspects and traits matter the most as well as what is obviously meant to be a re-use of the character and what is obviously just a re-use of the name. Of course, this can get a bit hazy considering how weird Transformers can be with this - TFP Wheeljack and Movie Optimus are clearly meant to represent a new version of their G1 counterparts but have wildly different personalities - but it's not awfully common.
IMO, you should discount very obvious cases where it's clearly just a name re-use than a character re-use - ie RiD 2001 Grimlock, Armada Sideswipe, Beast Wars Inferno etc. - and use your judgement for hazier cases like the aforementioned TFP Wheeljack. I'd also say that in the context of such lists you should include a note of it being a hazy case and maybe use the honourable mentions section to bring up a more obvious character re-use for people that do not accept said hazier case as something that counts.
Thankfully Beast Wars/Machines narrows this down completely since they share a universe with G1 and it's explicitly stated whether or not they're the same character. Though it'd admittedly be very weird to see that bird on a Top 5 Prowls list...
Emerje wrote:BW Prowl is easily one of the best late line Deluxe new mold figures, he's a lot of fun. Not sure what Will has against him, I know he's a fan favorite around here at least. He should certainly make it on a top 5 list of bird Transformers.
Emerje
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