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What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Kurona » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:53 am

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william-james88 wrote:
Emerje wrote:BW Prowl is easily one of the best late line Deluxe new mold figures, he's a lot of fun. Not sure what Will has against him, I know he's a fan favorite around here at least. He should certainly make it on a top 5 list of bird Transformers.

Emerje


He is overly simplistic, has the whole bot undercarriage problem, adds so little to the combiner and he also has GPS.
So yeah, not a big fan.

My mistake; I forgot Silverbolt was the bird and Prowl was the lion.
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Amelie » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:45 am

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- They must share enough character similarities to be "identifiable" as the character*1 (example would be G1 Wheeljack and Cybertron Downshift, there is enough 'homage' to pass)

- They are a rebuilt version of a character (I genuinely think that Galvatron\Megatron are inter-changable in most lists)

- They are clearly alternate reality versions of the same guy. (Car Robots Prowl and G1 Prowl, for example).

- It gets repurposed in canon media as that character (best examples are Shattered Glass examples)

*1 - unless its made very clear they're merely sharing names (example - Beast Wars Megatron)

Thats just my 2 cents
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Kurona » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:34 am

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Amelie wrote:- They are clearly alternate reality versions of the same guy. (Car Robots Prowl and G1 Prowl, for example).

Is he, though? Is he really? He doesn't have any of the same visual cues, not even the head; hell, in Japan he was given a completely different name and only re-named 'Prowl' when Hasbro got ahold of him.
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Emerje » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:05 pm

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Kurona wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Emerje wrote:BW Prowl is easily one of the best late line Deluxe new mold figures, he's a lot of fun. Not sure what Will has against him, I know he's a fan favorite around here at least. He should certainly make it on a top 5 list of bird Transformers.

Emerje


He is overly simplistic, has the whole bot undercarriage problem, adds so little to the combiner and he also has GPS.
So yeah, not a big fan.

My mistake; I forgot Silverbolt was the bird and Prowl was the lion.

You both did. Bird Prowl is the TM2 owl (Prowl II), combiner Prowl is the lion. The bird with the GPS is Silverbolt. That owl is a fun toy, though I have to admit I had to grow to like it.

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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby william-james88 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:28 pm

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Emerje wrote:
Kurona wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Emerje wrote:BW Prowl is easily one of the best late line Deluxe new mold figures, he's a lot of fun. Not sure what Will has against him, I know he's a fan favorite around here at least. He should certainly make it on a top 5 list of bird Transformers.

Emerje


He is overly simplistic, has the whole bot undercarriage problem, adds so little to the combiner and he also has GPS.
So yeah, not a big fan.

My mistake; I forgot Silverbolt was the bird and Prowl was the lion.

You both did. Bird Prowl is the TM2 owl (Prowl II), combiner Prowl is the lion. The bird with the GPS is Silverbolt. That owl is a fun toy, though I have to admit I had to grow to like it.

Emerje

Yup, totally confused Prowl with Silverbolt. And your comment on him being a bird made me think I had the right one. Well at least now you know why I didnt think much of that toy :lol: Lets call him TM2 Prowl and the other one Magnaboss Prowl, it will be easier ;)^
Kurona wrote:
Amelie wrote:- They are clearly alternate reality versions of the same guy. (Car Robots Prowl and G1 Prowl, for example).

Is he, though? Is he really? He doesn't have any of the same visual cues, not even the head; hell, in Japan he was given a completely different name and only re-named 'Prowl' when Hasbro got ahold of him.

They are both cop cars right? That counts for something. Its more than Movie Sideswipe and G1 sideswipe have.
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Kurona » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:43 pm

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I actually think Sideswipe kinda works; he was a non-character in G1 much like a lot of the Autobot Cars, with his only real characterisation - unless I missed something in dreamwave or marvel - coming from his bio and early IDW - both of which claimed he was a daredevil maverick type of character. Kinda like the Dinobots but not quite as extreme.
Movie Sideswipe's appearances of showing up and slicing through Decepticons with his swords at high speed kinda fits that. Plus they gave both Aligned Sideswipe and G1 Sideswipe (through Devastation) a particular affinity for swords, so it seems likely this was intentional or at the very least Hasbro officially considers them versions of the same character. I mean hey, it's no worse than Ratchet or Devastator, right?
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Amelie » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:10 pm

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Kurona wrote:
Amelie wrote:- They are clearly alternate reality versions of the same guy. (Car Robots Prowl and G1 Prowl, for example).

Is he, though? Is he really? He doesn't have any of the same visual cues, not even the head; hell, in Japan he was given a completely different name and only re-named 'Prowl' when Hasbro got ahold of him.


Well - he is and he isn't. He is a police car, first and foremost. ;) Because he's also Mach Alert (which you could argue makes him Red Alert in some sense).

I wouldn't object to seeing RID Prowl in a Prowl list and Car Robots Mach Alert in a Red Alert list.
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Overcracker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:29 pm

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Amelie wrote:
Kurona wrote:
Amelie wrote:- They are clearly alternate reality versions of the same guy. (Car Robots Prowl and G1 Prowl, for example).

Is he, though? Is he really? He doesn't have any of the same visual cues, not even the head; hell, in Japan he was given a completely different name and only re-named 'Prowl' when Hasbro got ahold of him.


Well - he is and he isn't. He is a police car, first and foremost. ;) Because he's also Mach Alert (which you could argue makes him Red Alert in some sense).

I wouldn't object to seeing RID Prowl in a Prowl list and Car Robots Mach Alert in a Red Alert list.


That mold was also repainted into Universe Red... err... Inferno, Universe Inferno, but looked suspiciously like Red Alert. 8-}

Would you use that repaint in a G1 Inferno list, or a Red Alert list?
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:33 pm

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Magnaboss Silverbolt has no robot undercarriage, really: the upper body just flips around back into the bird body. You're just left with the legs doing double duty.

Amelie wrote:
Kurona wrote:
Amelie wrote:- They are clearly alternate reality versions of the same guy. (Car Robots Prowl and G1 Prowl, for example).

Is he, though? Is he really? He doesn't have any of the same visual cues, not even the head; hell, in Japan he was given a completely different name and only re-named 'Prowl' when Hasbro got ahold of him.


Well - he is and he isn't. He is a police car, first and foremost. ;) Because he's also Mach Alert (which you could argue makes him Red Alert in some sense).

I wouldn't object to seeing RID Prowl in a Prowl list and Car Robots Mach Alert in a Red Alert list.


Mach Alert =/= Red Alert. Red Alert was just "Alert" in Japan, though it's possible CR Mach Alert is related to him, or Clamp Down. Universe 2003 Inferno is a better match for a Red Alert list, had FunPub not made him into Beast Wars Inferno instead 8-}
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Amelie » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:38 pm

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Overcracker wrote:That mold was also repainted into Universe Red... err... Inferno, Universe Inferno, but looked suspiciously like Red Alert. 8-}

Would you use that repaint in a G1 Inferno list, or a Red Alert list?


Clearly he's Inferno. :P The Mach Alert\Prowl thing works because hes got two names in different countries :P
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Overcracker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:14 pm

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Amelie wrote:
Overcracker wrote:That mold was also repainted into Universe Red... err... Inferno, Universe Inferno, but looked suspiciously like Red Alert. 8-}

Would you use that repaint in a G1 Inferno list, or a Red Alert list?


Clearly he's Inferno. :P


Ohh, yes, Clearly. How could I have been so blind :lol:
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Kurona » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:03 am

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Wasn't that later confirmed to canonically be BW Inferno in a new body? ... from a weird alternate universe?
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby TK415 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:34 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:It depends on the spirit of the list. IMO, there's two different kinds of lists you can make. One about the spirit of the character - one which includes homages - and one that is about the name and name only.

I'm very much into G1 Hot Rod. You have the usual, but I also include Excelleon and Super SpeedBreaker. Excelleon is very much based on G1 Hot Rod and SSB also seemed like an attempt to update the G1 look for a modern era. BUT SpeedBreaker himself wouldn't count. Him being blue is just different enough to not include him. Ditto regular Armada Hot Shot, but not his superlink form.

So, basically, toys that are derived from the design elements of the original version would count in this sort of list.

In terms of movie Wheeljack, the one with the G1esque head and deco would count. The regular Que would not. Energon Downshift would count. Armada Wheeljack would not. To me the stylistic choices for Armada Wheeljack make him belong to the Sideswipe list.

So there's a list that evokes the sprit of the original. This is pretty flexible. Would Cloud Rodimus count? Would Botcon SG Galvatron count towards a similar Galvy list? Judgement calls.

And then there's a list that's just about the names. Which ... isn't very satisfying. To me, when I'm looking at a list like that I want a comparison of toys with similar design features, not just a list of TFs with the same name. There's no point in comparing Beast Wars Inferno to G1 Inferno. They have nothing in common.

Ultimately it boils down to a judgement call. When does a new design become too different? It boils down to which design elements you feel are important and what the intention is behind the design. Some designs are meant to derive form the original. Others just share the name and nothing else.



I second this. I think Gauntlet is right on.

Names are recycled and random and arbitrary. They do not always represent the same character.

Also, WJ, you said it in your title, a “character’s best toys.” Not best named-character toys. As Gauntlet and others said that list would be random and arbitrary.

List of a character’s best toys, or “best representation of a character.” Best version of commonalities or spirit or essence of a character, even a seed of the character.

Cool lists. I look forward to them!
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby TK415 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:43 pm

Hey,

What are some other examples?

Cyclonus G1
Cyclonus Armada

Bonecrusher G1
Bonecrusher BW (Maximal)
Bonecrusher Movie

Devastator G1
Devastator Movie

Scourge G1
Scourge BW
Scourge Cybertron

Shockblast is Shockwave

Have many other names, besides Bonecrusher, switched sides? Or do the names mostly stay with their respective side?
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby Amelie » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:25 pm

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TK415 wrote:Hey,

What are some other examples?


That really depends on how "imaginative" you want to be.

Bombshell ;)
Cyclonus G1
Bombshell Actionmaster
Cyclonus Armada
Cyclonus Reveal The Shield
Cyclonus Combiner Wars
Bombshell Titan Wars

I mean, it could count, depending on your perspective.
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby william-james88 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:48 pm

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TK415 wrote: Best version of commonalities or spirit or essence of a character, even a seed of the character.

Thats awesome, I will definitely use this :)
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Re: What Counts for a list of a character's best toys? (need community input)

Postby TK415 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:42 pm

william-james88 wrote:
TK415 wrote: Best version of commonalities or spirit or essence of a character, even a seed of the character.

Thats awesome, I will definitely use this :)

Thanks WJ, I’m glad that I could contribute something, I have been busy and I haven’t been able to spend as much time as I would like on the forums or reading your lists.

Thanks for all of your hard work. I sill check out and enjoy the lists, I just haven’t been able to respond as much as I would like.
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