The Energon Pub

For the G1 Combiners, I vte for Defensor. Very stable but under appreciated. If I mentioned it already, GF Convoy.

MP-01 and 10 also comes to mind. If THS-02 could be made deluxe or voyager size, now that would be AWESOME!

Moving back to Orion Pax, I picked him up and I can now totally see what people were talking about. The robot mode is so well articulated and though I do find him very small, he is very well detailed and has the right complexity for that class (and even more than most). I really like his chest, which seems so detailed as a robot chest one would not think it to work as a "cockpit" as well, but it totally does. What I love most about his specific design is how I feel Hasbro wanted to evoke him as a spiritual predecessor to their WFC design. While we see it in robot mode to an extent, the vehicle mode really concretes that hypothesis for me.

It really looks like he was based to be the previous form of WFC Optimus, acting as both a reimagingin of G1 Orion Pax from the cartoon and how Orion Pax might have looked like in the WFC/FOC video game design. He is like a deviant art fantasy design come to life.

Also, did you know Orion Pax can ROCK IT with his ax?

Why did I not find out about this sooner? Now I want an Orion Pax!

-Kanrabat- wrote:Also, did you know Orion Pax can ROCK IT with his ax?

Hell yeah! That's one of the reasons I got him as well. It's also the pose I gave him in my toy haul post.

In terms of design, I would say MP Grimlock is up there pretty high on my list. Both modes look amazing, transformation is fun, and he has great accessories. He is a perfect update of a classic, iconic G1 figure. One of my favorites figures of any line.

Allow me to throw a wrench into the gears of this thread and nominate the 1step Changer Helicopter Drift as one of the best AoE toy. Even one of the best and most fun TF I had to play with in months!

First, it's really movie accurate. That mold is ridiculously detailed and have a huge ammount of paint aps. The vehicle mode is perfect with ZERO obvious robot parts visible, no matter the angle you're looking at it. The transformation gimmick is fun and instantaneous, making a great to to go wub wub wub wub wub krikroukrikook stomp stomp stomp pew pew pew!. Bot mode is amazing looking, with very few hollowa and it have some arms articulations.

Here, see Chuck's review or see it again:

I have a nice long post for you guys regarding kibble and my current questions regarding it when considering what makes a great Transformers design.

It all started with a thread similar to ours foundhere that asks for top 3 of each size class.
I was thinking fo what I would write if we did it here for the voyager class and one toy came to me that I felt like nominating here first but wasnt sure.

You see, I love Beast Hunters Ultra Magnus. It is easily the best voyager to come out of the Beast Hunters line and one of the best Voyagers of the entire Prime era. But that's my opinion and it is not that shared. While Ultra Magnus is liked well enough for being show accurate and has a bunch of playability, I also happen to love it for it's mold which is the same one shared by RID Optimus and that is not a shared sentiment. The First Edition Optimus Prime is always way above the RID Optimus Prime mold (as seen in this poll) but that defeats our talk of kibble to an extent.

You see, I love Kibble integration and this mold does it really well. Most of the truck parts come into play in robot mode but in a different fashion. The truck nose becomes the forearms, the truck roof becomes the shoulders, the lower legs transform beautifully using the back of the truck cab and this was the first Prime mold that actually had the truck's windshield become Optimus's chest piece. The Ultra Magnus made this mold even more awesome by adding these massive shoulder cannons with firing missiles. And it doesnt look that goofy in truck mode when you store the jetpack in the back (he has a jetpack!).
But back to the mold itself, it has all this integration and does it very well and yet the Firt Edition mold with the fake chest piece and the shoulders which are not formed from any part of the cab is always hailed as better. And I was simply wondering why that was when we seem to value kibble integration so much.

Last week had more cases of wondering how much kibble was a part of a good Transformers design. I got Galvatron and the whole point of that transformer is that there is an emphasis on having none of the truck show up in robot mode. It's obviously to stay true to the film and I think it does a great job at attempting that, but I dont know if that makes him a good transformer. Defintely an interesting design (not the initial movie design, I mean the design used by the toy to iimitate the film). And then there was Jetfire. Now Jetfire is a particular case since he does not have the same roots as other transformers. He was part of another transforming toyline (Valkyrie Macross) that still makes amazing (but insanely expensive) figures to this day. Like Kanrabat said, if we would include transforming figures from brands outside the Transformers brand, this thread would be full of those. But we still have Jetfire and I wanted to mention him.







He really feels like worthy of only half of the two fold praise for design. He looks amazing in both modes and has this sleek yet immensely powerful look to him with a beautiful sci fi edge which definately sets him apart from most other Transformers designs (the sterile white look adds to that big time). But his kibble integration is close to none. We make fun of that Age of Extinction First Edition Leader Optimus figure for wearing a truck on his back, but Jetfire wears the entire jet. The only part that doesnt appear on his back in robot mode is some of the jet's front, but even that section is not seen in robot mode since we only see it's other side. And the jet is simply given two folds (one for the back panel and another for the nose cone) and there you go, here is the extent of the jet portion transforming. The robot transforms by changin the configuration of the arms and legs tucked under the jet in jet mode. They are clearly not part of the jet (maybe except for the thrusters that become his shoulders). But he just looks so damn good in robot mode, it's nuts!

So yeah, I dont know what to think. We should like as much kibble integration as possible, but does that make the RID Voyager Prime mold better than the First Edition mold, why do we give transformer toys like Jetfire and AOE Galvatron a pass when they go against this rule? Do you give them a pass?

I have a simple solution. There's more than one kind of Transformers. You get the "integrate everything" type. You get the shelformers. You get the backpackers. then, there's various blends of those 3 types.

For me, a PERFECT TF must have those 3 points: Awesome looking in both modes, fun to transform, and free of any nagging points.

Well, Will, I don't know that he has gotten a "pass".
In this forum I feel like he has received more complaints than compliments. A lot of people complain about his faux cockpit, his hallow parts, flimsy wings, the chrome, and his transformation. But also, in this forum a lot of people complain about a lot of things.

IMO, he is a really cool in robot mode. Just cool looking, great head sculpt, and good articulation. I love all the techno bits inside the "faux" cockpit. I would say his jet mode is good enough, so not the best. I personally don't hate the chrome. I do think his transformation is weak and slightly half assed. For such a large toy, I feel like there could have been a lot more engineering packed into him. Instead of being a backpacker.

I think what saves him for me, and a lot of other people, is that I have a deep emotional attachment to this character/toy. I won't recount it, but I can remember vividly, the acquisition of the original toy when I was 10. Other than Silverstreak, he was my favorite TF toy as a kid.
I think the Classics version is a much better Transformer toy in terms of design, but this Generations version more closely resembles the G1 toy, and strikes an emotional chord for me.

And Cyberpath's photos really do him justice.

More of Cyberpath's pics here
http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/awesome-pictures-and-poses-thread-post-customs-in-customizations-forum--t80180s4225.php#p1621416

i think jetfire gets a pass because he does both modes well. and while its true he's wearing a jet on his back (like AOE primes wear trucks on their backs), jetfires kibble is aesthetically pleasing. but thats easy to do with a jetformer.

[quote="Prime Riblet"]In terms of design, I would say MP Grimlock is up there pretty high on my list. Both modes look amazing, transformation is fun, and he has great accessories. He is a perfect update of a classic, iconic G1 figure. One of my favorites figures of any line.[/quote

I take this statement back.

As far as design and everything encompassed in that term, it is very hard to beat Human Alliance Jazz. That figure is pretty close to being in the Masterpiece league IMO.

Prime Riblet wrote:

Prime Riblet wrote:In terms of design, I would say MP Grimlock is up there pretty high on my list. Both modes look amazing, transformation is fun, and he has great accessories. He is a perfect update of a classic, iconic G1 figure. One of my favorites figures of any line.[/quote

I take this statement back.

As far as design and everything encompassed in that term, it is very hard to beat Human Alliance Jazz. That figure is pretty close to being in the Masterpiece league IMO.

I consider it masterpiece league, along with ROTF Optimus and HFTD Leader Starscream (and Galaxy Force Convoy)

Wasn't sure if I should make annother thread for this, but it is about design.

I was taking pictures of my Cybertron/Galaxy Force collection the other day and while handling the toys I just kept marvelling at the headsculpts (specifically Vector Prime, Optimus, Hotshot and Jetfire). They are so dinstinctly Takara and detailed, I couldnt believe it. Ever since then, the headsculpts of the main show/movie toylines have been very stylistic or overly alien. Some of the generations figures have decent head sculpts, but man I dont think anything compares to these. What do you guys think?

Image summary fo all these beautiful headsculpts

I do love the head sculps I've got in my limited cybertron collection (Ransack, Scattershot, the repaints of hot shot, thundercracker and leobreaker, and Prime) Energon also has good head sculpts like Rodimus, Demolisher and Megatron.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, some of the movie sculpts are good as well like wreckage and sky stalker.

Also the animated sculptors, they did an amazing job translating the style of the cartoon to actual toys.

william-james88 wrote:Wasn't sure if I should make another thread for this, but it is about design.

I think this idea is right at home here. We have established the two divisions of design, character design and engineering design.
For these toys, a lot of the character design starts with head sculpt.

I couldn't agree more. Cyb/GF employs all the design esthetics of the G1 look with a really awesome modern touch. I would say they are TAKARATASTIC!
Even with a face plate, some of these sculpts are the most expressive to date. Vector Prime is probably in my top 5 favorite TFs of all time. If not top 3.

william-james88 wrote:Ever since then, the headsculpts of the main show/movie toylines have been very stylistic or overly alien.

This statement is opening a can I'd rather leave closed for now. It is almost the cornerstone of my disgust for the movie designs, and the movies themselves.

william-james88 wrote:Some of the generations figures have decent head sculpts, but man I dont think anything compares to these.

I'm just glad the IDW crew has stayed true to the Takara esthetic. A lot of there designs take cues from the Classics toys.

Image summary fo all these beautiful headsculpts

Alright gang, I have an idea for a new game. Its called...



ar·che·type
ˈärkəˌtīp/
noun: archetype;
-a very typical example of a certain person or thing.
"the book is a perfect archetype of the genre"

Here's how we play.
Think of a character archetype and find a Transformer that exemplifies that archetype.
Examples of character archetype's:
Rogue Hero (Han Solo, Aragorn)
Gentle Giant ( Lennie from Of Mice and Men, Hagrid, Fezzik)
Skilled Swordsman (Legolas, Drizzt Do'Urden, Inigo Montoya)
The Silent Killer (Snake eyes, Darth Maul)
The Wild Card (Whirl, Martin Riggs, Stephen-the mad Irishmen from Braveheart)
The Schemer (Starscream, Grimma Wormtongue)
The Psychotic (The Joker)
The Old Timer (Ratchet, Kup, 80's Wolverine)
The Comedian
The Town Drunk
The Wizard
The Dictator
The Mad Scientist
and so on.
You can start with one of those or come up with your own. If you choose your own, please give an example or two, from any fiction.

Here's the fun, and why it's here in the design thread.

It must be a visual representation only.
Forget every thing you know about the characters of Transformers. We know Starscream is The Schemer. Kup is the Old Timer. Shock wave is The Mad Scientist. But do they look the part?
Find a character, based soley on their character design, that visually evokes the attributes of the archetype.
You can chose from any toy line. It can be robot mode, alt mode, or both.
you can give one or multiple examples.

You can use an archetype that someone has already used, but you have to give a different example.
You can use a character (or toy) that someone already used if you believe it works for a different archetype, but you have to defend your position.

I'll go first.
My favorite archetype is - The spunky and stout dwarf, the tank, or the little tough guy. examples Gimli, Puck from Alpha Flight,

Cybertron, Armohide



Beast Wars Neo, Killerpunch, both modes

OK. who's next?

Nobody can be a better mad scientist than Animated Oilslick!

AWESOME!
Good one Kbat.
Unmistakable with that fish bowl on his head.

The wizard archetype totally goes to Vector Prime for me.

Vector P = Wizard
Great one! Kind of sticky though, because that is his character. But..
Visually he does SOOOO nail it.


My Gentle Giant is

Cybertron, Metroplex

Cobotron wrote:Vector P = Wizard
Great one! Kind of sticky though, because that is his character. But..
Visually he does SOOOO nail it.

That's a better gentle giant than mine. As for vector prime, I nevet watched the show so I really was relying on visuals alone. Interesting how they also end up being representative of the character himself.

william-james88 wrote:

Cobotron wrote:Vector P = Wizard
Great one! Kind of sticky though, because that is his character. But..
Visually he does SOOOO nail it.

That's a better gentle giant than mine. As for vector prime, I nevet watched the show so I really was relying on visuals alone. Interesting how they also end up being representative of the character himself.

The judges have awarded you the point!

I got some more. I only put picutres of the ones that havent been mentioned on this thread yet (might fill it out more later).

The Psychotic would definitely go to ROTF Bludgeon or Prime First Edition Starscream. They remind me of Yoshimitsu and Voldo from the Soul Caliber series (both two psychotic characters, very fun to play when you don’t know how the controls work).

Rogue hero would go to Galaxy Force Jetstorm.



Silent Killer would be Animated Prowl or Prime RID Vehicon (they both make a great snake eyes)


The skilled swordsman might be Prime RID Dreadwing or Galaxy Force Starscream. Tose are two of the most badass robot modes I have ever seen.



The dictator would go to Animated Ultra Magnus. That roadbuster redeco makes him look even more like a military dictator.



The old timer would be Prime RID Thundertron

[img]http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-images/toys/images/216883-1/Thundertron%20Robot%2029.jpg
[/img]
The wild card would be Prime Rumble

Ooh, now you have my attention!

For Comedian, there is only 1 possible choice: Animated Swindle.

Look at that smirk! I really want this guy...

I'll add another category: Heavy Weapons Guys (Heavy from TF2, Avitus from Dawn of War 2 etc). A great example in that category is Beast Wars Rampage:


Even his crab mode looks like a walking pile of kill!

This one could fall under Psychotic, but I'd also put him in another category: the One-Man-Justice-Machine (Judge Dredd, Rambo, Old Man Henderson etc). Who do I refer to? MP G2 Sideswipe!

Pictured: the best Transformer ever.