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News Credits: 436 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:18 pm

And since Beast Wars Second's ending was kinda vague, I'm hoping to see what might have become of Artificial Planet Nemesis after that finale when Beast Wars Neo gets subbed later this year.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:05 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:So let's talk cameos.

Obviously Starscream was the first full cameo. Although he appears earlier in altmode, during Cheetor's dream/hallucination in The Web.

I forgot about his alt mode be in an episode

1)If Megatron were to press 'Eject' on Soundwave, would the Cassettes have woken up?

You are assuming the cassettes were inside soundwave,.....Which I don’t think would have been lightly considering that they were attacking the autobot ship at the time of the crash

2)Were Ravage to have entered this chamber and absorbed his G1 Spark, in light of Optimal Optimus and TM2 Megatron, what would he have turned into?

It would probably kill him

Such an action would’ve created such a time storm that it would have at least erased him from the current timeline

3)With word the Coneheads were considered to guest cameo for the finale of Beast Wars season 3, which relevant living cameo would you have liked to see? Shockwave? The Dinobots etc

What word of the coneheads are you speaking of?

Obviously in aligned continuity, the Nemesis was Trypticon. How cool would that cameo have been?

Actually able to create another continuity issue Since the tryptocon was created in five faces of darkness From the G1 cartoon

News Credits: 436 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:14 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:So let's talk cameos.

Obviously Starscream was the first full cameo. Although he appears earlier in altmode, during Cheetor's dream/hallucination in The Web.
I forgot about his alt mode be in an episode

Unicron was "technically" second.

Technically Unicron never made a cameo

If Starscream's altmode being seen in a dream sequence can count as a cameo, why can't Unicron's planet mode being seen in a fantasy sequence also count as a cameo?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
1)If Megatron were to press 'Eject' on Soundwave, would the Cassettes have woken up?
You are assuming the cassettes were inside soundwave,.....Which I don’t think would have been lightly considering that they were attacking the autobot ship at the time of the crash

You can see the workings of a cassette tape behind his chest window in that very screencap.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
3)With word the Coneheads were considered to guest cameo for the finale of Beast Wars season 3, which relevant living cameo would you have liked to see? Shockwave? The Dinobots etc
What word of the coneheads are you speaking of?

The word that an early draft of "Nemesis Part 2" was gonna have Dirge, Thrust, and Ramjet be temporarily reactivated from within the Nemesis in that episode, before they were written out in later drafts due to budget constraints.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:26 pm

Sabrblade wrote:If Starscream's altmode being seen in a dream sequence can count as a cameo, why can't Unicron's planet mode being seen in a fantasy sequence also count as a cameo?

I didn’t say you did or didn’t count I just didn’t remember it happening at all

Add to the other thing I thought he was referring to win the image was used by the vok

You can see the workings of a cassette tape behind his chest window in that very screencap.

1) The image is too blurry to just figure out whether that is the workings of a tape on the image of his radio mode....Not to mention that that was before they got earth modes

2)Soundwave carried the other things inside there other than his minions

The word that an early draft of "Nemesis Part 2" was gonna have Dirge, Thrust, and Ramjet be temporarily reactivated from within the Nemesis in that episode, before they were written out in later drafts due to budget constraints.

Cool I didn’t know that thank you

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:27 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote:That begs another question: how could G1 Ravage and BW Ravage exist in the same point in time if they were the same bot? Or does G1 Ravage being off-line negate this?

why wouldn’t he be able to exist at the same time?

There were plenty of other sci-fi series and shows and films in which where a time traveler interacts with his younger self with absolutely no trouble with either existence

And more on point within the transformer Siri we have seen characters go back in time and interact with them selves just take a look at time traveling Galvatron Who teams up with Megatron.

Even though BW has nothing to do with the G1 comics,

That’s not entirely correct, the showns creators took elements from both the G1 cartoon and the G1 comics and put it together for the beast wars series

Show me tours has as much to do with the G1 comics as it does the cartoon

News Credits: 436 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:30 pm

^ I think your autocorrect is acting up, there.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:1) The image is too blurry to just figure out whether that is the workings of a tape on the image of his radio mode....Not to mention that that was before they got earth modes

2)Soundwave carried the other things inside there other than his minions

Soundwave's chest window doesn't have cassette spool-like designs on it. It's a blank window with a

symbol on its center. I don't know how your eyes are, but I can see the cassette tape spools beneath that window just fine.

And besides, Soundwave's minions already turned into tapes on Cybertron even before they came Earth.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:39 pm

Sabrblade wrote:^ I think your autocorrect is acting up, there.

it does that sometimes

Soundwave's chest window doesn't have cassette spool-like designs on it.

You’re talking about how it was animated in the G1 cartoon, we don’t know how the CGI guys From Reese wars animation team would have chose to do it

It's a blank window with a symbol on its center

Exactly and we should’ve been able to see the inside workings of his tape deck area.

I don't know how your eyes are, but I can see the cassette tape spools beneath that window just fine.

Or the inner workings of a tape deck, the point I’m making is that it’s blurry enough so that you can’t tell if you’re looking at a tape or the inner workings of a tape deck

And as I pointed out he carried other things in there besides his name to minions

And besides, Soundwave's minions already turned into tapes on Cybertron even before they came Earth.

Animation shortcut

You know that, is the reason why we didn’t see Cybertron modes for everybody, or different bodies while on cybertron

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:20 am

Should you wish to examine the scene with Soundwave more closely, it's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OtZcSnPvTo

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You know that, is the reason why we didn’t see Cybertron modes for everybody, or different bodies while on cybertron

That is also a thing I've always been curious about: Original altmodes. Sunbow showed off a couple in the first part of MTMTE. Whereas Beast Wars was very coy with their pre-Beast Designs. Didn't really help that most of the cast, barring Primal and Megatron, seemed to even rename themselves based on their Beast Modes. We never really had much to go on as to who and what the initial crew of both ships were prior to the start of the series.

Note: The above speculation is based on the show itself. I haven't read any Convention-made prequel prose or comics and have no interest in either.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:55 pm

To be fair, funpub did a very good job assigning pre-beast forms but for sake of ease they did keep the original names though I think tigatron got a new name when they did their last set. As for the show itself, it would have been more story elements to balance so might have been the wise decision to just not bother with them and just move forward.

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:09 pm

It was a wise decision, although they gave little hints. Primal was a Flier. Cheetor had never been one, based on his dialogue when he first became Transmetal. However, on the Predacon side, other than Terrorsaur and Waspinator were also Fliers, no indication who/what any of the others were.

Of course there was the theory going around, a while back, that Maximals and Predacons had no default altmodes. Hence why Megatron in the pilot, Rampage in his flashback and the Tripredacus Council have no overt kibble. Also why Ravage transformed into a Cassette, because that was his Decepticon altmode.

News Credits: 436 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:23 pm

In the actual pre-BW fiction that Fun Pub produced, only Optimus and Megatron kept their BW names. Cheetor, Rhinox, and Rattrap were unnamed, Tigatron was a MaxCop referred to only as "Unit-2", Airazor was named "Wing Saber" in the poorly-received prose story "The Razor's Edge", Dinobot was only ever referred to by Megatron as "My dear lieutenant", and the other Preds were all unnamed as well.

Though, "The Agenda (Part 2)" implied Tarantulas's name to have been that even on Cybertron, as Ravage formally refers to him as "Lieutenant Tarantulas of the Predacon Secret Police", and Waspinator's Hall of Fame bio written by Hasbro gave him the same Cybertronian name as his Animated counterpart, "Wasp".

Now, "Dawn of the Predacus" just used a lot of the BW names for the BW characters, but that was produced by IDW instead of Fun Pub, so the blame goes to IDW for that.

As for Primal's flight capabilities, that was left over from when he was originally going to be a robot/bat/gorilla triple-changer in the show to advertise both of his original toys at the same time, but that idea proved too complicated so they just stuck with based his CG model on his gorilla toy while leaving the flight ability of his bat form intact. The 2004 book Transformers: The Ultimate Guide had stated Primal Cybertronian altmode to have been a monster truck, which while Cybertron Crumplezone's toy doesn't exactly call to mind that particular descriptor, one could consider it a sort of "alien monster truck" instead.

(Cybertron Dirt Boss would have been a more apt fit for that altmode)

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:14 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Waspinator's Hall of Fame bio written by Hasbro gave him the same Cybertronian name as his Animated counterpart, "Wasp".

To me that reeks of the 'aligned continuity' Hasbro was pushing a while back. Personally I always thought it needlessly over-complicated the fiction.

Sabrblade wrote:As for Primal's flight capabilities, that was left over from when he was originally going to be a robot/bat/gorilla triple-changer in the show to advertise both of his original toys at the same time, but that idea proved too complicated so they just stuck with based his CG model on his gorilla toy while leaving the flight ability of his bat form intact. The 2004 book Transformers: The Ultimate Guide had stated Primal Cybertronian altmode to have been a monster truck, which while Cybertron Crumplezone's toy doesn't exactly call to mind that particular descriptor, one could consider it a sort of "alien monster truck" instead.

(Cybertron Dirt Boss would have been a more apt fit for that altmode)

While that is true, about the left over and let's face it The Triple Changer modes they were going with made very little sense (Alligator to T-Rex, why?)and wouldn't have really been good designs. But, is the idea just because Primal was an 'Optimus' he has to be a lame trukk?
What solidified my idea that Primal was always a Flier is the visual evidence we are presented with.

Every single iteration of his body has some kind of jet propulsion (Arguably the TM body and those upgraded from it, wasn't his, but that's largely semantics)Not only that but he is adept at flying, from day one. He exhibits control and agility in the air equal to Airazor, Terrorsaur or Waspinator. I always saw his Cybertronian altmode akin to Brainstorm, Highbrow etc

There isn't really anything from any design of Optimus Primal that would even hint at a previous truck form? Plus why would there be monster trucks on Cybertron :-?

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:48 pm

Optimal optimus toy had a ground vehicle form. The wasp thing, why would you see that akin to the "aligned continuity" (I accept it as that's what Hasbro said, and it's fine seeing them attempt to tie up all the loose ends but I also acknowledge that it wasn't the original intention and should have stayed that way). Way I see it is that was his name, I mean Prowl in G1 marvel comics has the same name and looks but is clearly different. If anything, Hasbro giving waspinator the pre name of wasp is a fun reference that wasp was a homage to the original waspinator in the first place.

Back to prime it's one of those things that if you don't want to go with the semi official material then you'll never find the decisive proof that your theory is right.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:09 am

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Should you wish to examine the scene with Soundwave more closely, it's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OtZcSnPvTo

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You know that, is the reason why we didn’t see Cybertron modes for everybody, or different bodies while on cybertron

That is also a thing I've always been curious about: Original altmodes. Sunbow showed off a couple in the first part of MTMTE. Whereas Beast Wars was very coy with their pre-Beast Designs. Didn't really help that most of the cast, barring Primal and Megatron, seemed to even rename themselves based on their Beast Modes. We never really had much to go on as to who and what the initial crew of both ships were prior to the start of the series.

Note: The above speculation is based on the show itself. I haven't read any Convention-made prequel prose or comics and have no interest in either.

I didn’t care as much that we didn’t see any pre-earth molds for the BW characters but whyat did bug me was why the characters in question seem to rename themselves

And thanks for the clip but I still find it just as difficult to discern whether there’s a tape in there or were just looking at the innards of the tape deck

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:50 am

ZeroWolf wrote:Optimal optimus toy had a ground vehicle form.

That's a kind appraisal

ZeroWolf wrote: The wasp thing, why would you see that akin to the "aligned continuity" (I accept it as that's what Hasbro said, and it's fine seeing them attempt to tie up all the loose ends but I also acknowledge that it wasn't the original intention and should have stayed that way). Way I see it is that was his name, I mean Prowl in G1 marvel comics has the same name and looks but is clearly different. If anything, Hasbro giving waspinator the pre name of wasp is a fun reference that wasp was a homage to the original waspinator in the first place.

The one thing in comics (and media in general)I really hate is retcon. Transformers is different with every iteration. Homage can be nice, but retcon is always the step too far. Especially when it creates a contradiction.

The worst offender being Sparks. The Autobots and Decepticons now always had them, which they didn't. For example, Ultra Magnus being "rebuilt" in The Movie, clearly shows they didn't have them. Likewise the hollow attempts to shoehorn Car Robots and Animated into G1, for no reason.

1st Era: Sunbow - Zone
2nd Era: Beast Wars - Beast Machines (including Second and Neo)
Side Story: Car Robots
3rd Era: The Unicron Trilogy
Bayformers 1-5
4th Era: Animated
5th Era: Prime - RiD - Rescue Bots
6th Era: Whatever the new Machinima series is called.

What is the problem with keeping them separate? What is actually gained by needlessly integrating them?

ZeroWolf wrote:Back to prime it's one of those things that if you don't want to go with the semi official material then you'll never find the decisive proof that your theory is right.

I don't work for Hasbro, Takara, Marvel Comics, Dreamwave or IDW. So my theories, my "head canon", only mean something to me. Therefore I don't require any outside validation.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: I didn’t care as much that we didn’t see any pre-earth molds for the BW characters but what did bug me was why the characters in question seem to rename themselves

It bugs me too. Other than Galvatron, Cyclonus etc being "christened" by Unicron, I don't recall this ever happening outside of Beast Wars. What was the point of it too? They could have left out those lines of dialogue and no one would have questioned that EG Cheetor was always named Cheetor.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:21 am

I don't know why takara tried to put everything into g1. Rescue bots is part of prime - rid BTW a user on here was able to put them together with no problems. And it was the idea that rescue bots was for younger viewers and then they could move onto prime when ready.

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:29 am

ZeroWolf wrote: Rescue bots is part of prime - rid BTW a user on here was able to put them together with no problems. And it was the idea that rescue bots was for younger viewers and then they could move onto prime when ready.

Oh, ok. I haven't really seen anything past Animated, except a couple episodes of Prime. I knew of the connection between Prime and RiD and frankly I only know of Rescue Bots by name.

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:38 am

News Credits: 436 · by **Sabrblade** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:20 am

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The one thing in comics (and media in general)I really hate is retcon. Transformers is different with every iteration. Homage can be nice, but retcon is always the step too far. Especially when it creates a contradiction.

Well, Waspinator having been named "Wasp" on Cybertron doesn't really contradict anything, since the subject of his previous name never came up.

In fact, in regards to the Beast Wars: Uprising version of the guy, not only was his name "Wasp" before he acquired his Beast Mode, but so too was it his name even after he underwent the Beast Upgrade, only changing his name to "Waspintor" after he underwent a further, more horrific surgical upgrade that turned him into an unholy Predacon-Vehicon hybrid, with his new cyborg body being a repurpose of the Thrustinator toy using the "Waspinator" name.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The worst offender being Sparks. The Autobots and Decepticons now always had them, which they didn't. For example, Ultra Magnus being "rebuilt" in The Movie, clearly shows they didn't have them.

You don't have to think of the Transformers of the G1 cartoon as having had Sparks since Beast Wars isn't specifically set in that same continuity (except for in the Japanese version, but which is okay since Japanese Transformers fiction had already referred to Transformers as having souls or hearts, so the Spark concept would apply to that).

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Likewise the hollow attempts to shoehorn Car Robots and Animated into G1, for no reason.

1) That never happened with Animated.

2) I take it you've never watched Car Robots. Not the English RiD dub, the original Car Robots version. I have, and there are a number of small but present continuity nods and notes that alluded to both JG1 and JBW. Car Robots was no more ambiguous in its continuity placement as Beast Wars Second was, since the latter (outside of its continuity-questionable movie) never once acknowledges that it's in the same universe as any other series, with the use of the :MAXIMAL:

and

symbols and the use of beast modes being the only real clues.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:1st Era: Sunbow - Zone
2nd Era: Beast Wars - Beast Machines (including Second and Neo)

You forgot Generation 2.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Bayformers 1-5
4th Era: Prime - RiD
5th Era: Rescue Bots

Where's Animated?

And as said before, Rescue Bots is part of Prime and RID 2015, having had crossovers and such.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:6th Era: Whatever the new Machinima series is called.

Prime Wars Trilogy

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:What is the problem with keeping them separate? What is actually gained by needlessly integrating them?

The only things that are together in Japan are all the G1 era series and all the Beast Era series (which Car Robots is one of). The Unicron Trilogy is its own thing. The movies are their own thing. Animated is its own thing. And Prime, Go!, Adventure, and Adventure: Prime of Micron are their own thing. That's five separate continuities.

Frankly, I'm surprised you're not raising a stir over Cybertron/Galaxy Force being part of the Unicron Trilogy given its mismanaged production.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: I didn’t care as much that we didn’t see any pre-earth molds for the BW characters but what did bug me was why the characters in question seem to rename themselves

It bugs me too. Other than Galvatron, Cyclonus etc being "christened" by Unicron, I don't recall this ever happening outside of Beast Wars. What was the point of it too? They could have left out those lines of dialogue and no one would have questioned that EG Cheetor was always named Cheetor.

The writers probably felt that it wouldn't have made sense for characters who didn't previous have animal forms on Cybertron to have already had animal-based names. So they treated us to the age-old introdump instead.

And characters would go on to change their names post-upgrades in other shows later. Megatron would rename himself Galvatron in RiD 2001 and three times over across the Unicron Trilogy. Smokescreen became Hoist in Armada. Inferno, Cyclonus, Tidal Wave, and Wing-Dagger became Roadblock, Snow Cat, Mirage, and Wing Saber in Energon. And Overhaul became Leobreaker in Cybertron.

Even back in G1, it happened when Hot Rod upgraded into Rodimus Prime, and when Bumblebee was rebuilt into Goldbug.

In Japan, it happened even more frequently. Soundwave got rebuilt into Soundblaster. Broadcast (Blaster) got rebuilt into Twincast. God Ginrai got rebuilt into Victory Leo. Megastorm and the four Combatrons (Starscream, BB, Thrust, and Dirge) got reformatted into Gigastorm and the Cyborg Beasts (Hellscream, Max-B, Thrustol, and Dirgegun). Gigatron became Devil Gigatron. From Micron Densetsu to Super Link, Hot Rod became Hot Shot, Jetfire became Skyfire, Megatron became Galvatron, and Starscream became Nightscream. In just Super Link alone, Wing Dagger, Sandstorm (Cyclonus), and Ironhide (Demolishor) became Wing Saber, Snowstorm, and Irontread (Demolishor's dump truck form). And in Galaxy Force, Exillion (Hot Shot), First Aid (Red Alert), Backpack (Scattorshot), Jackshot (Overhaul), Master Megatron, Starscream, and Landbullet (Crumplezone) all got upgraded into Exigeyser (Cybertron Defense Hot Shot), First Gunner (CD Red Alert), Backguild (CD Scattorshot), Liger Jack (Leobreaker), Master Galvatron, Super Starscream, and Armbullet (Dark Crumplezone).

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Oh, ok. I haven't really seen anything past Animated, except a couple episodes of Prime. I knew of the connection between Prime and RiD and frankly I only know of Rescue Bots by name.

It's my second favorite series after Beast Wars. 8-)

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:23 am

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The one thing in comics (and media in general)I really hate is retcon. Transformers is different with every iteration. Homage can be nice, but retcon is always the step too far. Especially when it creates a contradiction.
Well, Waspinator having been named "Wasp" on Cybertron doesn't really contradict anything, since the subject of his previous name never came up.

The contradiction was making reference to the example immediately following that line, not Waspinator.

Sabrblade wrote:In fact, in regards to the Beast Wars: Uprising version of the guy, not only was his name "Wasp" before he acquired his Beast Mode, but so too was it his name even after he underwent the Beast Upgrade, only changing his name to "Waspintor" after he underwent a further, more horrific surgical upgrade that turned him into an unholy Predacon-Vehicon hybrid, with his new cyborg body being a repurpose of the Thrustinator toy using the "Waspinator" name.

As stated, I have no interest in such "Semi Official" (as ZeroWolf called it) source material.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The worst offender being Sparks. The Autobots and Decepticons now always had them, which they didn't. For example, Ultra Magnus being "rebuilt" in The Movie, clearly shows they didn't have them.
You don't have to think of the Transformers of the G1 cartoon as having had Sparks since Beast Wars isn't specifically set in that same continuity (except for in the Japanese version, but which is okay since Japanese Transformers fiction had already referred to Transformers as having souls or hearts, so the Spark concept would apply to that).

Possession ,Bad Spark ,The Agenda and Nemesis would all say otherwise. Also note that at the time Beast Wars aired, The Takara Series was still largely unseen and unheard of, outside of Japan.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Likewise the hollow attempts to shoehorn Car Robots and Animated into G1, for no reason.
1) That never happened with Animated.

2) I take it you've never watched Car Robots. Not the English RiD dub, the original Car Robots version. I have, and there are a number of small but present continuity nods and notes that alluded to both JG1 and JBW. Car Robots was no more ambiguous in its continuity placement as Beast Wars Second was, since the latter (outside of its continuity-questionable movie) never once acknowledges that it's in the same universe as any other series, with the use of the and symbols and the use of beast modes being the only real clues.

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOB8V9eW2qo Watch upto about the first minute.

2) As it happens I have, I watched it when it first aired. Never saw the dub, nor plan to. Car Robots was actually tied into The Takara Series through Fortress Maximus. Not only that but you had Predacons, Maximals, Autobots and Decepticons all thrown in together. If anything, Car Robots was the very first attempt at Aligned Continuity.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:1st Era: Sunbow - Zone
2nd Era: Beast Wars - Beast Machines (including Second and Neo)
You forgot Generation 2.

Alas I didn't. I was talking cartoons and "G2" was just Sunbow with awful CG plastered over it.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Bayformers 1-5
4th Era: Prime - RiD
5th Era: Rescue Bots
Where's Animated?

And as said before, Rescue Bots is part of Prime and RID 2015, having had crossovers and such.

Already amended.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:What is the problem with keeping them separate? What is actually gained by needlessly integrating them?

Frankly, I'm surprised you're not raising a stir over Cybertron/Galaxy Force being part of the Unicron Trilogy given its mismanaged production.

When it first aired, it [The Unicron Trilogy] was sold as one series. Of which I stopped watching partway through Armada, because it was awful. Behind the scenes stuff is largely irrelevant in the moment.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: I didn’t care as much that we didn’t see any pre-earth molds for the BW characters but what did bug me was why the characters in question seem to rename themselves

It bugs me too. Other than Galvatron, Cyclonus etc being "christened" by Unicron, I don't recall this ever happening outside of Beast Wars. What was the point of it too? They could have left out those lines of dialogue and no one would have questioned that EG Cheetor was always named Cheetor.

The writers probably felt that it wouldn't have made sense for characters who didn't previous have animal forms on Cybertron to have already had animal-based names. So they treated us to the age-old introdump instead.

But even as an introdump, it was asinine. Because we never saw what they looked like before BW. So it would have made no difference if Primal had simply called out to 'Rattrap' and 'Rhinox' on the Axalon before it crashed.

Sabrblade wrote:And characters would go on to change their names post-upgrades in other shows later. Megatron would rename himself Galvatron

Even back in G1, it happened when Hot Rod upgraded into Rodimus Prime, and when Bumblebee was rebuilt into Goldbug.

The Megatron-Galvatron thing being another example of my point. Of course it got even worse after The Movie, as
"Galvatron" became just a byword for a Megatron palette swap.

Rodimus took the Matrix and became a Prime. Basically explained to us back then as an upgraded title for an Autobot leader IE Hot Rod"imus Prime".

Bumblebee to Goldbug was just weird, and somewhat pointless. Both in Sunbow and the G1 comic...

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Oh, ok. I haven't really seen anything past Animated, except a couple episodes of Prime. I knew of the connection between Prime and RiD and frankly I only know of Rescue Bots by name.
It's my second favorite series after Beast Wars.

After how bad Armada quickly became. That Animated took far too long to become interesting and how ugly Prime was, I've been seriously put off watching any Transformers series.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:11 pm

Fortress Maximus wasn't in car robots though, that was brave maximus (which we'll never see again in toy form unless someone comes up with another crazy exclusive using the titans returns fort max mold) I saw the dub and aside from the reuse of trademarks (use them or lose them) I never actually saw it as an attempt to join any previous continuity.

I could have sworn that Japan tried to link animated to g1 or at least the live action movies :-?

But American animated was always it's own thing, they just shoved it full of references for fans to spot (like Daniel witwicky, or his question stolen from a lot of fans mind when he asks prime where his trailer goes when he transforms)

Beast wars gave me the inclination that it was in a timeliness that contained elements of both comics and cartoon, which I think has been brought up before in this thread. I see it as this: U1 is cartoon timeline. U2 is comic timeline. U3 mixes them up, having the best elements of both, this is what leads to beast wars.

Trying to count how many different timelines in transformers can be very confusing if you think about it

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:27 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:Fortress Maximus wasn't in car robots though, that was brave maximus (which we'll never see again in toy form unless someone comes up with another crazy exclusive using the titans returns fort max mold) I saw the dub and aside from the reuse of trademarks (use them or lose them) I never actually saw it as an attempt to join any previous continuity.

I could have sworn that Japan tried to link animated to g1 or at least the live action movies But American animated was always it's own thing, they just shoved it full of references for fans to spot (like Daniel witwicky, or his question stolen from a lot of fans mind when he asks prime where his trailer goes when he transforms)

Fort Max: The Palette Swap, then :lol:

Takara themselves folded Car Robots into their continuity, via Kiss Players.... So yeah.

ZeroWolf wrote:Beast wars gave me the inclination that it was in a timeliness that contained elements of both comics and cartoon, which I think has been brought up before in this thread. I see it as this: U1 is cartoon timeline. U2 is comic timeline. U3 mixes them up, having the best elements of both, this is what leads to beast wars.

Trying to count how many different timelines in transformers can be very confusing if you think about it

Exactly. This is where the Aligned Continuity has caused more harm than good. They were better off drawing a line under each series.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:07 pm

What would have been better for aligned is if everyone was working from the same worksheet from the start, there's been several attempts to tie everything together but how successful it was varies from person to person. We'll have to see how the new toon fares (I believe it's cyberverse and a new timeline to boot)

News Credits: 436 · by **Sabrblade** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:34 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:As stated, I have no interest in such "Semi Official" (as ZeroWolf called it) source material.

Good, cuz that's not was Uprising was, considering it had the official Hasbro license under its belt.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Possession ,Bad Spark ,The Agenda and Nemesis would all say otherwise.

"Borrowing elements from another series" is not the same thing as "existing in the same universe as that other series". Primus also exists in Beast Wars when he doesn't exist in the G1 cartoon's English version, which uses the Quintesson origin for the Transformers.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Also note that at the time Beast Wars aired, The Takara Series was still largely unseen and unheard of, outside of Japan.

Overseas ignorance does not invalidate something's existence.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOB8V9eW2qo Watch upto about the first minute.

All I see is recycled G1 footage used for the purposes of fanservice not meant to be taken literally. Animated is not and has never been in the G1 cartoon universe, and should not be viewed as such. It's impossible to fit it that universe anyway without first needing to create more retcons, which you yourself have have already explained that you don't like.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:2) As it happens I have, I watched it when it first aired.

And did you understand the Japanese dialogue?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Car Robots was actually tied into The Takara Series through Fortress Maximus. Not only that but you had Predacons, Maximals, Autobots and Decepticons all thrown in together. If anything, Car Robots was the very first attempt at Aligned Continuity.

Brave Maximus isn't the same guy as G1 Fortress Maximus. There were no Maximals in either Car Robots or its RiD dub, nor were there any Decepticons in Car Robots (the Combatrons were reprogramed Generation 2 Autobots that were treated as a Predacon sub-subfaction within the Predacon subfaction of Destrongers).

And, now you're confusing me a bit since your bringing up all these references in Car Robots sounds like you're trying to explains how Car Robots was tied with JG1 and JBW as though you're okay with that, when your previous post sounded like you disliked Car Robots being connect with those. Which is it?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:When it first aired, it [The Unicron Trilogy] was sold as one series.

Erm, no, it was three. That's how it's a trilogy. Three separate series that succeeded each other across one universe. Yet, many argued that Cybertron was a reboot due to how Japan produced it like that when it was supposed to be another sequel, and in turn decried Hasbro for "trying to shoehorn it in with Armada and Energon". To this day, some still refuse to accept Cybertron as part of the trilogy and accuse Hasbro of retconning it in when it was supposed to be another sequel all along, but Japan made it more like another fresh start.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:But even as an introdump, it was asinine. Because we never saw what they looked like before BW. So it would have made no difference if Primal had simply called out to 'Rattrap' and 'Rhinox' on the Axalon before it crashed.

But then you'd have people asking why they already had animal-sounding names before they turned into animals. The fandom was already very critical of Beast Wars when it first came out back then, so the show came in having to fight an uphill battle from the get-go.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:And characters would go on to change their names post-upgrades in other shows later. Megatron would rename himself Galvatron

Even back in G1, it happened when Hot Rod upgraded into Rodimus Prime, and when Bumblebee was rebuilt into Goldbug.

The Megatron-Galvatron thing being another example of my point. Of course it got even worse after The Movie, as
"Galvatron" became just a byword for a Megatron palette swap.

Rodimus took the Matrix and became a Prime. Basically explained to us back then as an upgraded title for an Autobot leader IE Hot Rod"imus Prime".

Bumblebee to Goldbug was just weird, and somewhat pointless. Both in Sunbow and the G1 comic...

"To sell toys". That's the heart of it all.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:After how bad Armada quickly became. That Animated took far too long to become interesting and how ugly Prime was, I've been seriously put off watching any Transformers series.

I found Rescue Bots immensely refreshing from all the pretentious doom'n'gloom of Prime. It helps that Rescue Bots was heavily character-driven, immensely smart and witty in its writing, and the lack of warfare allow for more diverse and experimental storytelling that put the Bots into situations that they otherwise would have never gotten to experience had they been drafted for war.

ZeroWolf wrote:Fortress Maximus wasn't in car robots though, that was brave maximus (which we'll never see again in toy form unless someone comes up with another crazy exclusive using the titans returns fort max mold) I saw the dub and aside from the reuse of trademarks (use them or lose them) I never actually saw it as an attempt to join any previous continuity.

The English dub of RiD was the first real attempt at creating a reboot series untied to any past continuity. Though, ironically, there were more references put into the dub than there were in the original Car Robots version, yet the dub's references were treated more as fanservice and little winks and nods rather than anything serious, whereas the few references in the original were meant to be taken more seriously and helped tie Car Robots together with JG1 and JBW.

ZeroWolf wrote:I could have sworn that Japan tried to link animated to g1 or at least the live action movies But American animated was always it's own thing, they just shoved it full of references for fans to spot (like Daniel witwicky, or his question stolen from a lot of fans mind when he asks prime where his trailer goes when he transforms)

The original plan for Japan's dub of Animated was indeed to make it a prequel for the live action movies, with Bulkhead even being renamed "Ironhide" (and Ironhide himself being renamed "Armorhide" as a result). But, when the dub actually came about, it stuck to its own continuity like the American version instead, ignoring the original plans to make it a movie prequel. Bulkhead and Ironhide still had their new names, though, but that's all.

ZeroWolf wrote:Trying to count how many different timelines in transformers can be very confusing if you think about it

Yeah, considering that there are literally millions of universes in the Transformers multiverse, counting them all would be an effort in futility.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Exactly. This is where the Aligned Continuity has caused more harm than good. They were better off drawing a line under each series.

ZeroWolf wrote:What would have been better for aligned is if everyone was working from the same worksheet from the start, there's been several attempts to tie everything together but how successful it was varies from person to person.

The name "Binderverse" would have been a much better name than "Aligned".