Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Rial Vestro wrote:In terms of Plot, G1 story telling lasted for all of an episode or 3 then that was it. The series as a whole wasn't really plot driven. Where as A/E/C Every episode was just a continuation of the last episode.

To put it simply you could watch G1 entirely out of order and it'd still make just as much sence. Non of the single episode plots required you to know what happened in the series 10 episodes earlier to understand their current situation. That was basically how 80's cartoons were, the plot of the week and then done with the occasional cliff hanger.

Modern day cartoons are little more complex than that. You actully do have to watch all of A/E/C in order to even try to understand what the hell is going on. I remember when Armada first started, I missed a few episodes somewhere in the series and by the time I got back to it Starscream had joined the Autobots and I was like "what the hell are you doing there?" then I lost my satilight shortly after and it was only after watching on YouTube I realized why he joined the Autobots and that he was really only with them for all of like 3 episodes and then it didn't make sence why he went back to the Decepticons.

G1 had it's fair share of what I call "unoffical two-parters" stories that ended with a cliffhanger just not a typical one episodes like: Child's Play/The Gambler, Starcream's Brigade/The Revenge of Bruticus, The Big Broadcast of 2006/The Quintesson Journal there is an even an unoffical 3 parter with Theif in the Night/Starscream's Ghost/Ghost in the Machine. While you could watch an episode like The Gambler without watching Child's Play you still wouldn't understand how Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Inferno, Bumblebee, and Smokescreen end up on a giant toy space ship in the middle of nowhere, without watching Child's Play first, but I do agree that you can watch the episodes of G1 out of order but in some cases you might be coming in the middle of a storyline without having a clue about what is going on.

One of the things I do agree with you about is the never-ending serial that is Transformers: Armada, Transformers: Energon and Transformers: Cybertron I mean with every episode ending in a cliffhanger you miss an episode you won't be able to understand what is going on.

Cyberstrike wrote:G1 had it's fair share of what I call "unoffical two-parters" stories that ended with a cliffhanger just not a typical one episodes like: Child's Play/The Gambler, Starcream's Brigade/The Revenge of Bruticus, The Big Broadcast of 2006/The Quintesson Journal there is an even an unoffical 3 parter with Theif in the Night/Starscream's Ghost/Ghost in the Machine. While you could watch an episode like The Gambler without watching Child's Play you still wouldn't understand how Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Inferno, Bumblebee, and Smokescreen end up on a giant toy space ship in the middle of nowhere, without watching Child's Play first, but I do agree that you can watch the episodes of G1 out of order but in some cases you might be coming in the middle of a storyline without having a clue about what is going on.

True............but watching "The Gambler" its not apparent that Prime and the others are traveling in a "giant toy space ship".

The episode opens up to see the characters in a "funky" space ship traveling threw space.

And thats not that weird for any sci-fi cartoon much less one based on transforming robots.

There are a few different episodes that opened in a similar way.

I am going to enjoy kicking over this hornets nest. If you really want a unique view of why someone would hate the A/E/C trilogy how about the fact that it never should have existed in the first place. Unicron died in the 1986 movie. End of story.
The character of Unicron was epic. The threat he imposed on the entire galaxy was such that it was to be a unifying force and a catalyst for bringing about a new hero, a new champion, a new Leader to step forward and carry on the Legacy of Optimus Prime.

Bringing Unicron back demeaned that victory and pretty much pissed on what was supposed to be a profund event in TF history.
How many "darkest hours" are the Autobots supposed to have? Is the Matrix supposed to kick universal scale ass on a month by month basis? I even had issues back when I was youger with episodes like Starscreams Ghost where they just couldn't leave stuff well enough alone and have a characters demise actually mean something. What's kind of a point are you making by constantly hitting the restart button? Is this a show or a damn video game?

Furthermore, that was Orson Wells final role. Regardless of how he felt about doing it at the time, the fact remains that his name is still held in the highest regard in all of the cinematic community. Out of respect, his final character should NEVER have been used anywhere else by anyone.

Of course, I really wouldn't expect any of you youngsters to understand the concept of respect for history...

T-Macksimus wrote:I am going to enjoy kicking over this hornets nest. If you really want a unique view of why someone would hate the A/E/C trilogy how about the fact that it never should have existed in the first place. Unicron died in the 1986 movie. End of story.
The character of Unicron was epic. The threat he imposed on the entire galaxy was such that it was to be a unifying force and a catalyst for bringing about a new hero, a new champion, a new Leader to step forward and carry on the Legacy of Optimus Prime.

Bringing Unicron back demeaned that victory and pretty much pissed on what was supposed to be a profund event in TF history.
How many "darkest hours" are the Autobots supposed to have? Is the Matrix supposed to kick universal scale ass on a month by month basis? I even had issues back when I was youger with episodes like Starscreams Ghost where they just couldn't leave stuff well enough alone and have a characters demise actually mean something. What's kind of a point are you making by constantly hitting the restart button? Is this a show or a damn video game?

Furthermore, that was Orson Wells final role. Regardless of how he felt about doing it at the time, the fact remains that his name is still held in the highest regard in all of the cinematic community. Out of respect, his final character should NEVER have been used anywhere else by anyone.

Of course, I really wouldn't expect any of you youngsters to understand the concept of respect for history...

Its a different universe , a different Unicron, despit what the retcon stories try to say.

I'm dead sure no one looked at A\E\C's Unicron and thought..."look at what they did to a great G1 character".

The "Unicron 3 pack" of shows werent good or bad because they werent G1....it was because of their guilty.

That's the whole problem with it and the whole reason that the entire TF Fandom is one big screwed up mess of storylines, continuities and glitches.
The point I made has been totally missed and that complete and utter lack of respect that I mentioned before or even the slight glimmer of acknowledgment towards the impact of a characters actions is the underlying flaw in the entire "Universal" scope of Transformers. "A different Unicron"? How many freaking astronomically huge, planet-smashing harbringers of death are out there in this galaxy? Can you see what I'm getting at? There should only ever be one. Recycling a character of that magnitude for some other story arc or whatever, just makes his impact worth exactly squat. It doesn't matter what new name you want to put on a series, the thing looks the same, acts pretty much the same and...wait for it...named UNICRON! "Hm, Unicron. Him again? O.k. send out the Throttlebots and some mini-cons to go kick his ass while I throw a few more burgers on the grill. While your at it, write a note for me to send out a squad next month to cut him off 'cause I'm pretty sure he'll be back."

I don't care what universe he came back in, the point is he never should have come back in ANY universe for ANY reason under ANY name or in ANY incarnation. To do so was to cheapen the character and his original impact on the TF Universe entirely.

This isn't a "G1" thing if you think I'm just a G1 whiner. This is a scope and breadth and storytelling impact thing. This is why I think nearly all of the other cartoons are pure crap. Nothing anyone does in any of them means sh** because we are going to see it all done again next month anyway.

T-Macksimus wrote:That's the whole problem with it and the whole reason that the entire TF Fandom is one big screwed up mess of storylines, continuities and glitches.
The point I made has been totally missed and that complete and utter lack of respect that I mentioned before or even the slight glimmer of acknowledgment towards the impact of a characters actions is the underlying flaw in the entire "Universal" scope of Transformers. "A different Unicron"? How many freaking astronomically huge, planet-smashing harbringers of death are out there in this galaxy? Can you see what I'm getting at? There should only ever be one. Recycling a character of that magnitude for some other story arc or whatever, just makes his impact worth exactly squat. It doesn't matter what new name you want to put on a series, the thing looks the same, acts pretty much the same and...wait for it...named UNICRON! "Hm, Unicron. Him again? O.k. send out the Throttlebots and some mini-cons to go kick his ass while I throw a few more burgers on the grill. While your at it, write a note for me to send out a squad next month to cut him off 'cause I'm pretty sure he'll be back."

I don't care what universe he came back in, the point is he never should have come back in ANY universe for ANY reason under ANY name or in ANY incarnation. To do so was to cheapen the character and his original impact on the TF Universe entirely.

This isn't a "G1" thing if you think I'm just a G1 whiner. This is a scope and breadth and storytelling impact thing. This is why I think nearly all of the other cartoons are pure crap. Nothing anyone does in any of them means sh** because we are going to see it all done again next month anyway.

I'll give you this, your rant is quite enjoyable a read.

But arter reading your sig I thought you would be accustomed to the idea oh history repeating itself.

To follow your thoughts to its conclusion we would never see an other Optimus Prime or an other Megatron.

The concept wouldnt get updated every few years.

They would have to be linked to the series before it.

Sometimes a concept needs a "fresh start" with familar but not the same characters.

Fine, it didnt work in A,E,C but it did with TFA.

I love the Unicron Trilogy!!

I only had two major complaints throughout any of it.

1) The fact that they dumped the awesome 2D animation in Armada for that stupid cell-shaded 3D animation. Yuck.

2) And most of the Cybetron series, period. Yeah, I'm a hopeless TF fan. I still got up at 5 in the morning to watch it, but I just liked Armada and Energon better.

Plus Energon was a far less confusing sequel, IMO.

First I want to say I hope you didn't get the impression that I was frustrated with you directly. I've been on here long enough to have gained a great deal of respect for your input and I realize that my response probably didn't come across as sounding very respectful towards you. I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach to folks on this site. Just wanted to clear that up.

Second, even as I was typing my second response I did actually have the Prime/Megatron thought come across my mind. Those 2 I would consider the exceptions simply because of the roles they play and have played since day one. Their "epicness", as it were, is in a different league. Although I do to some degree feel that Hasbro bringing back Prime also lessened the impact of his death in the '86 movie. While greatly dissapointed I would have been content to accept Rodimus as the new Prime. The spirit of Optimus would still have lived on in him and in all the Autobots. To bring him back for the sake of marketing really tarnishes the honor of a great leader (or the concept of all that he represented at least).

Third, I'm not sure how to take that 'enjoyable read' comment. Because it's you I'm approaching it with a reserved manner because I know that, unlike so many others on here, you don't make such comments with an antagonistic spirit or simply to evoke emotional response. Were that comment to come from several others on here I would be ready to jump down someones throat. I'll let you unveil the shroud of mystery behind this one. Meantime, I'm glad you got at least SOME kind of value out of it. Everyone else just wishes I'd go away...

T-Macksimus wrote:First I want to say I hope you didn't get the impression that I was frustrated with you directly.

No worries, I didnt feel any negativity from your words what so ever

T-Macksimus wrote: I've been on here long enough to have gained a great deal of respect for your input and I realize that my response probably didn't come across as sounding very respectful towards you. I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach to folks on this site. Just wanted to clear that up.

Thakyou very much.

With your premission I would love to ad some of this to my sig.
.

T-Macksimus wrote:Second, even as I was typing my second response I did actually have the Prime/Megatron thought come across my mind. Those 2 I would consider the exceptions simply because of the roles they play and have played since day one. Their "epicness", as it were, is in a different league. Although I do to some degree feel that Hasbro bringing back Prime also lessened the impact of his death in the '86 movie. While greatly dissapointed I would have been content to accept Rodimus as the new Prime. The spirit of Optimus would still have lived on in him and in all the Autobots. To bring him back for the sake of marketing really tarnishes the honor of a great leader (or the concept of all that he represented at least).

I can see where your going but there is a problem......how does one determine which characters were "epic enough" to warrant the exception???

And what do you do when that opinion differences from one of the other creators of a new emending TF show???

Say one writter is of the opinion that Grimlock is "epic worthy" but the next creator doesnt.

The way I see it, any character is fair game to be remade or "re-booted" in a new series.The task at hand is to make sure its done right.

So while I can agree with you that the rendition of "UNICRON" done in A,E,C, wasnt the best.....I cant say its because the character's concept should never have been re-used.

They just should have done a better job of it.

T-Macksimus wrote:Third, I'm not sure how to take that 'enjoyable read' comment. Because it's you I'm approaching it with a reserved manner because I know that, unlike so many others on here, you don't make such comments with an antagonistic spirit or simply to evoke emotional response. Were that comment to come from several others on here I would be ready to jump down someones throat. I'll let you unveil the shroud of mystery behind this one. Meantime, I'm glad you got at least SOME kind of value out of it. Everyone else just wishes I'd go away...

Take it as a complement.

Its refreshing to read a post thats so well thought out nd well worded....even if I didnt agree with all of it.

Over the last few weeks I've read post after post of "bashing" that has had little value or coherent thought behind them.

For the most part people complaining just to complain with little explanation for their complaint.

So again...while I might not completely agree with you its nice to read a complaint with some substance.

Take whatever portions of that paragraph, or anything of mine, you deem postable. Although it hasn't been as apparent of late, given all the heated debate since the release of the movie, one of my goals on here is to occasionally come across with something that stops people in their tracks and makes them think. I genuinely care about folks as a whole and try to prod in whatever small way I can towards seeing things from a unique POV. That's why I must confess to a bit of embarassment over my intial reaction earlier but I do now see what you mean about the task of the story writers who are left to restart.
There is much left to opinion and I guess nobody really can gauge "epic" for anyone but themselves. Logic -vs- Emotion. This should have been apparent to me with all the other Movie debates lately but I guess I felt they were two different creatures and never connected the two thoughts.

My greatest hope right now is that, while we still don't see eye to eye on a few things, maybe others will at least learn from this example we've put forth. We acknowledged each others points and differences, clarified what needed to be without incident and are wiser for the experience. I must thank you for what is quite possibly the most civilized debate I have had on these boards since I first joined.

T-Macksimus wrote:Take whatever portions of that paragraph, or anything of mine, you deem postable. Although it hasn't been as apparent of late, given all the heated debate since the release of the movie, one of my goals on here is to occasionally come across with something that stops people in their tracks and makes them think. I genuinely care about folks as a whole and try to prod in whatever small way I can towards seeing things from a unique POV. That's why I must confess to a bit of embarassment over my intial reaction earlier but I do now see what you mean about the task of the story writers who are left to restart.
There is much left to opinion and I guess nobody really can gauge "epic" for anyone but themselves. Logic -vs- Emotion. This should have been apparent to me with all the other Movie debates lately but I guess I felt they were two different creatures and never connected the two thoughts.

My greatest hope right now is that, while we still don't see eye to eye on a few things, maybe others will at least learn from this example we've put forth. We acknowledged each others points and differences, clarified what needed to be without incident and are wiser for the experience. I must thank you for what is quite possibly the most civilized debate I have had on these boards since I first joined.

Your very welcome.

And thank you as well.

Technically, after his destruction in the original G1 movie, Unicron wasn't quite truely dead. In some season 3 episodes, his conciousness insdie his head would speak to whomever approached or entered his head. It even granted Starscream a new body!

But his absolute true ressurection didn't occur until a LONG time after, in Beast Wars Neo. The green energy emitted from his first body's destruction, revealed to be Angolmois energy, had to be regathered back together, as it was his lifeforce. Once he was back online (thanks to his three minions, the Blentrons), he possessed the corpse of BWII Galvatron and used it as a vessel to interact with the Maximials and Predacons. But, once he got back to Cybertron, he possessed Vector Sigma, taking full control of Cybertron, and reshaping it into his new planet-sized body (basically it was Cybertron with new Unicron horns and a ring). But he met his demise once again when Big Convoy, Lio Convoy, and Magmatron confronted him together. Using Galvatron's body, Unicron took on Lio Convoy and Magmatron, and Big Convoy was able to finish him off by combining his Matrix with his Big Cannon to form the Matrix Buster. With a single blast of this Matrix-enhanced weapon, Unicron's spirit was evicted from Vector Sigma and Unicron was seemingly destroyed again.

But I guess somethings were never meant to be. Somehow he must've come back to life again (perhaps in the Universe comics), and apparently must've hopped dimensions to get from the Primax cluster to the Aurex cluster where he fought Omega Supreme deep in the past, where he was defeated and went into dormancy, disguising himself as a moon to this universe's Planet Cybertron. During this slow recovery process, he created the Mini-Cons to escalate the current Cybertronian civil war, and fed off the energies released by the conflict. The rest is in the Armada and Energon cartoons (the Cybertron cartoon would've been better off without him).

The poor translations, bad dubbing, and epilepsy inducing colours make them all unwatchable for me.

They lack any of the charm that helps G1 get past all of its problems.

I will addmit as bad as Armada was in Story it did have GREAT animation second only to G1. And I'm only saying that because G1 humans look more realistic than any other series.

But yeah the mix of 3D and 2D animation in Energon and Cybertron just does not work. Pick one or the other, please, do no under any sercumstances ever try to mix two entirely different animation styals togeather.

But the good or bad animation is not even what I consider to be a defineing factor in a good series.

It's all about plot for me and the plot of Armada was all over the f-ing place. Elementry school kids could wright a better plot than that. Alot would be spelled wrong and there'd probly be fractured sentences but it'd still make more sence than whatever the hell Armada was.

Please help me!

Where can I watch or download the 33rd episode of Energon? I really want to watch it! I don't care if it's in Japanese.

Thanks!

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:G1 had it's fair share of what I call "unoffical two-parters" stories that ended with a cliffhanger just not a typical one episodes like: Child's Play/The Gambler, Starcream's Brigade/The Revenge of Bruticus, The Big Broadcast of 2006/The Quintesson Journal there is an even an unoffical 3 parter with Theif in the Night/Starscream's Ghost/Ghost in the Machine. While you could watch an episode like The Gambler without watching Child's Play you still wouldn't understand how Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Inferno, Bumblebee, and Smokescreen end up on a giant toy space ship in the middle of nowhere, without watching Child's Play first, but I do agree that you can watch the episodes of G1 out of order but in some cases you might be coming in the middle of a storyline without having a clue about what is going on.

True............but watching "The Gambler" its not apparent that Prime and the others are traveling in a "giant toy space ship".

The episode opens up to see the characters in a "funky" space ship traveling threw space.

And thats not that weird for any sci-fi cartoon much less one based on transforming robots.

There are a few different episodes that opened in a similar way.

At the start of The Gambler when the ship breaks down Inferno refers to ship as "toy rocket ship."

At the start of The Revenge of Bruticus Brawl yells at Starscream about Megatron banishing them to an asteroid.

In Starscream's Ghost Octane tells Sandstorm why Galvatron wants to kills by referring to the events in Thief in the Night.

Hell in The Return of Optimus Prime Rodimus refers back Dark Awakening by saying the Qunitessons have brought Optimus Prime back once before.

So it's clear that there was a sense of continuity in the show the writers either thoughts kids would get connections and didn't need to hold their hands or just didn't want to bother with it.

Wow, I started this thread 11 years ago. Didn’t expect to see it on the front page today.

Well holy necrobumping, Batman!

But what the hell...

Overall I don't mind AEC. Personally, I think it should get a lot more love in the form of updates than it is getting currently. Maybe after WFC is over, Hasbro will turn its attention to Armada for its 20th anniversary. I would also like to see Armada MPs.