Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Beast wars had megs and Galvatron seperate though I do prefer them seperate. I also prefer Cyclonus being different than Galvatron and scourge

Something completely random, something that would make IDW stand out to other publishers.
Short three panel strip in each issue (bottom of letters page), similar in vein to the old "Robo-Capers" that appeared in the Marvel UK TF comics.

Completely separate and not aligned with the rest of the book. Just a short little funny comic.

Burn wrote:Something completely random, something that would make IDW stand out to other publishers.
Short three panel strip in each issue (bottom of letters page), similar in vein to the old "Robo-Capers" that appeared in the Marvel UK TF comics.

Completely separate and not aligned with the rest of the book. Just a short little funny comic.

yes, I would like this as well, or alternatively have funny little outtakes of how key scenes might be messed up as if it was a shoot for a movie or tv show. Something light though wouldn't go amiss

ZeroWolf wrote:

Burn wrote:Something completely random, something that would make IDW stand out to other publishers.
Short three panel strip in each issue (bottom of letters page), similar in vein to the old "Robo-Capers" that appeared in the Marvel UK TF comics.

Completely separate and not aligned with the rest of the book. Just a short little funny comic.

yes, I would like this as well, or alternatively have funny little outtakes of how key scenes might be messed up as if it was a shoot for a movie or tv show. Something light though wouldn't go amiss

You could balance the Roberts style of humour without necessarily having that humour in the entirety of the issue from the multiple characters. I know that got in the way of some people enjoying the more serious stuff, so I think it could be a good compromise!

Lothar Hex wrote:

Moonshot wrote:
Honest question here, but isn't a trans lesbian just a cross-dressing straight guy?

JESUS.

Oh dear, absurd jokes are now considered offensive. Jebus help us all. Anyway, it's been copied below...

You know, considering we all love the extremely violent Transformers, how are a few jokes offensive to anyone?! Honestly, the net is skewing our perspective alarmingly!

snavej wrote:

Lothar Hex wrote:

Moonshot wrote:
[Baleeted]

JESUS.

Jesus might have been a cross-dressing straight lesbian guy: you never know!

Moonshot wrote:He did wear a dress, but I dont think Christ was a cross-dresser. Pretty sure he didnt have his birth certificate changed, lol.

Moonshot & Snavej,

Since you both seem to be little confused, I just wanted to point a few things out:
1. It's generally considered transphobic harassment to refer to trans women as "cross-dressers" or "men in dresses."
2. Yes, there are cisgender men (heterosexual and otherwise) that do cross-dress/perform in drag.
3. Because of my first point, it's usually more polite to assume that someone is a trans woman, if you are unsure if they are a trans woman or cis man in drag.
4. Generally, only binary women (both cis women and trans women) identify as lesbians. I'm not aware of any cis men who identify as lesbians in a context other than poor taste.
5. I'm not particularly up on my Bible, so I'm not actually sure if Jesus was a cross-dresser or not.
6. Just in case there is some ambiguity here, trans women *ARE* women.

Everyone owns the words they type and speak.

Going forward, moderators will be directly contacting those who skirt the rules about respecting others whether on purpose or through carelessness.

We will ask politely for courtesy only once.

Everyone be cool and remember that we're all on one team when it comes to our hobby. Being on the same team means speaking with respect.

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

snavej wrote:

Lothar Hex wrote:

Moonshot wrote:
Honest question here, but isn't a trans lesbian just a cross-dressing straight guy?

JESUS.

Jesus might have been a cross-dressing straight lesbian guy: you never know!

Moonshot wrote:He did wear a dress, but I dont think Christ was a cross-dresser. Pretty sure he didnt have his birth certificate changed, lol.

Moonshot & Snavej,

Since you both seem to be little confused, I just wanted to point a few things out:
1. It's generally considered transphobic harassment to refer to trans women as "cross-dressers" or "men in dresses."
2. Yes, there are cisgender men (heterosexual and otherwise) that do cross-dress/perform in drag.
3. Because of my first point, it's usually more polite to assume that someone is a trans woman, if you are unsure if they are a trans woman or cis man in drag.
4. Generally, only binary women (both cis women and trans women) identify as lesbians. I'm not aware of any cis men who identify as lesbians in a context other than poor taste.
5. I'm not particularly up on my Bible, so I'm not actually sure if Jesus was a cross-dresser or not.
6. Just in case there is some ambiguity here, trans women *ARE* women.

I have a Masters in Theology, so I can assure you Christ was not a cross-dresser. But I never meant to use "cross-dresser" in the negative, thats what men who dress as women have been called for decades, by themselves and others. And the way I always look at it is; whether u have X or Y, if u cut it off, I will call u a woman, fair enough.

I really hope that Hasbro takes this whole IDW reboot and new War for Cybertron toylines and cross promote. Would love to see a cartoon that goes with the new IDW reboot. Eveyone loves when they can buy good figures of the characters they see on TV and in comics, I mean I do at least. Its a perfect chance to synergize everything. Although I am ready for all new story lines and such, there are some character basics I hope carry over. Like Chromedome, Springer and Prowl in IDW are so great.

Did my post got deleted but a quote of it didnt? Not a problem just confusing. Did the quote give it a stamp of approval?

What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Funnily enough, I've just re-went through the misconceptions and myths over at the TFwiki and female transformers was a topic on that page. My thought is why does everyone get stuck on the idea that robots copying all other aspects of civilisation wouldn't copy gender as well?

Though to make this easier, I suggest the reboot just says there is male and female tfs from the get go, and then just move on.

@The lonely cracker- What isn't current IDW Shockwave not planning and genius for you?

[quote="ZeroWolf]@The lonely cracker- What isn't current IDW Shockwave not planning and genius for you?[/quote]

Oh, he's great. I just want future incarnations to be the same

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

It seems to me that you are conflating sex and gender, which are two distinct phenomena.

If you're interested, this is a pretty straightforward discussion of the two: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Just because they were called he doesnt make them have gender. Its just the default pronoun in human society. Would you rather they called each other it? Or had, in 1984, invented a new pronoun for warring robots from space when humans refer/write them?

While I've enjoyed the IDW TF comics over the years, I just don't have the energy, money, or time to really read them and enjoy them and it's becoming more of a chore than something fun to do, and that for me is a sign to take a break and come back later. So the last issues of Unicorn, Lost Light and Optimus Prime aren't the end of the world for me it's the end of a great era and it's better to go out on top then waste away.

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

It seems to me that you are conflating sex and gender, which are two distinct phenomena.

If you're interested, this is a pretty straightforward discussion of the two: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

We are not going there. I was talking about Cybertronian biology, not human, which are two distinct phenomena. So what I said is still legitimate in context.

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

It seems to me that you are conflating sex and gender, which are two distinct phenomena.

If you're interested, this is a pretty straightforward discussion of the two: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

We are not going there. I was talking about Cybertronian biology, not human, which are two distinct phenomena. So what I said is still legitimate in context.

But your primary point was *literally* that Cybertronians don't sexually reproduce. The only context we have as a species for intelligent life that reproduces through sexual differentiation *ARE* humans.

For all we know, the galaxy may be full of species of two or more distinct genders that don't reproduce sexually at all.

I'm not even sure I can think of one other example of a fictional, extraterrestrial species that is patterned male and doesn't reproduce sexually where a handful of men in its fandom *insists* they are genderless.

Here's how I look at it:

I like Transformers. I like the characters. I like reading/watching these witty little robots run around beating and blowing each other up. It's fun. And I like the idea of reading/watching these little tin cans run around doing just that for as long as possible. Again, because it's fun.

Now, IDW makes Transformers comics. For them to continue to make those comics, they have to turn a profit. They have to entice enough people to give them money in exchange for their Transformers stories to cover the cost of creating those stories and have some extra afterwards. If they fail to do this, IDW goes under. License for Transformers comics goes away. No more Transformers comics. I don't like this. Again, because I like seeing funny little robots beat each other up. I'm weird. I know.

However...it's ending. They're ending Transformers comics. Because, quite frankly, the market's gotten to the point that they cannot entice enough people to give them money in exchange for their Transformers stories. This phenomenon isn't new. Happens in comics all the time. Market dries up, titles/publishers shut down, things start up again when the market recovers. This time, however, instead of a sudden stop with no explanations and whole worlds of unfinished and unresolved stories, we're getting the exact opposite. We're getting a slam-bam big-time comic event with all the big names, even *bigger* names thrown in, and a final resolution, not just of the plot and dangling threads, but of the entire universe in which these stories take place. A resolution of all resolutions. A great big cap to send it off with.

So, if it's gotta end, that's a helluva way to let it end. Really, I can't complain about that.

But what about what comes next?

Strictly speaking, IDW hasn't even said for sure there *is* a next after this. They've hinted that there'd be *something* new after the Unicron event, but they haven't said for sure what that is. For all we know, that big new thing we're all wondering about is actually the Go-Bots comic and they're just scared of our reaction when we find out. Or it could be a reboot to Stormbringer. Or we're going to Beast Wars. Or they're going to make Optimus transform into a unicorn and drive us straight into a mashup with "My Little Pony". There's no telling. But it'll be fun to find out.

But what about all the extra quirky stuff they've thrown in the last few years?

I'm pragmatic. I want more Transformers comics. So that means I want IDW to make them well enough that they'll make enough money to make more. It's a completely self-serving viewpoint. I want them to make them good enough to keep making them for my own entertainment. All the outside-the-box stuff they've thrown in the past few years (shoehorning other franchises/genderbending/lubby-dubby-ness)...I don't care. None of it actually changed the core premise of why I enjoy these comics: cool robots run around and beat each other up.

And Prowl's a dick. Really, some things you just can't change.

But I want more/less of this/that because I liked/hated what it did for me?!!?!?

Well, I'm going to tell the truth. And it sucks.

Ultimately, what you, as an individual, liked...does not matter.

IDW has to make money. Apparently our comics, as much as we love them...don't. As much as they insist that the drop in revenue is due to the overall market, I'm pretty sure IDW paid attention to what did/didn't work in their comic series. They probably took quite copious notes when a given story element resulted in an overall dip in sales instead of a bump. And they probably took even *more* notes when something made a bump instead of a dip. Bringing in 1 new reader doesn't help if you drive away 2 in the process. A controversial plot point that generates 10 new subscriptions fails if it gets 30 cancellations as well. And a point that makes 1 person quit is good if it makes 2 or 3 more pick it up in their stead.

And I want whatever comes next to be better. If it hurt sales in this continuity, I don't want it in the next. If it helped sales, I want it in. Great War/Matrix fights/Autobot Megatron/Beast Wars/robot relationships/preggo Scorponok/whatever. Go with what works. Ditch what didn't. Really, getting a good product that's is successful enough to ensure it's own survival continuance should be everyone's main goal and hope. A new continuity with new stories that overall work better than before. Really, that's the best thing we can get out of this.

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

It seems to me that you are conflating sex and gender, which are two distinct phenomena.

If you're interested, this is a pretty straightforward discussion of the two: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

We are not going there. I was talking about Cybertronian biology, not human, which are two distinct phenomena. So what I said is still legitimate in context.

But your primary point was *literally* that Cybertronians don't sexually reproduce. The only context we have as a species for intelligent life that reproduces through sexual differentiation *ARE* humans.

For all we know, the galaxy may be full of species of two or more distinct genders that don't reproduce sexually at all.

I'm not even sure I can think of one other example of a fictional, extraterrestrial species that is patterned male and doesn't reproduce sexually where a handful of men in its fandom *insists* they are genderless.

Well, Transformers is somewhat of an anomaly in it's lore. My point was that *I*, me specifically, see no real evidence of sexes in Transformers in the way that *I* define sexes, which, once again, is the necessary sexes required for reproduction. No sex, no sexes, no sexuality. And the point I originally made was that Cybertronians having labels as "gay" or "straight" doesn't make any God damn sense.

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

It seems to me that you are conflating sex and gender, which are two distinct phenomena.

If you're interested, this is a pretty straightforward discussion of the two: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

We are not going there. I was talking about Cybertronian biology, not human, which are two distinct phenomena. So what I said is still legitimate in context.

But your primary point was *literally* that Cybertronians don't sexually reproduce. The only context we have as a species for intelligent life that reproduces through sexual differentiation *ARE* humans.

For all we know, the galaxy may be full of species of two or more distinct genders that don't reproduce sexually at all.

I'm not even sure I can think of one other example of a fictional, extraterrestrial species that is patterned male and doesn't reproduce sexually where a handful of men in its fandom *insists* they are genderless.

Well, Transformers is somewhat of an anomaly in it's lore. My point was that *I*, me specifically, see no real evidence of sexes in Transformers in the way that *I* define sexes, which, once again, is the necessary sexes required for reproduction. No sex, no sexes, no sexuality. And the point I originally made was that Cybertronians having labels as "gay" or "straight" doesn't make any God damn sense.

Well, my friend, you have been fighting a losing battle against canon since November 12, 1985.
But I appreciate your tenacity?

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:

The Lonely Cracker wrote:What I want to know is how the **** big ass alien genderless robots can be given human properties such as sexuality.

But all I really want from the reboot is a badass, planning and genius Shockwave.

Okay, but I think that's the point a lot of us have been making for 30 years. Originally in G1, all the characters were coded male (and females were added by 1985). But, more importantly, as soon as the first Transformer called another "he" they were gendered.

Conversely, take a look at the flip side of this: Steven Universe. In that show, all the inorganic aliens (the Gems) are coded female and call each other she. But I don't think I've seen ANYONE call the Gems "genderless."

Food for thought.

Well, when I say "gender", I mean the 2 that, when they entangle, produce offspring. Cybertronians do not reproduce sexually, and, as such, do not have true genders, regardless of pronouns.

Steven Universe is a whole other damn can of worms I do not wish to get near.

It seems to me that you are conflating sex and gender, which are two distinct phenomena.

If you're interested, this is a pretty straightforward discussion of the two: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

We are not going there. I was talking about Cybertronian biology, not human, which are two distinct phenomena. So what I said is still legitimate in context.

But your primary point was *literally* that Cybertronians don't sexually reproduce. The only context we have as a species for intelligent life that reproduces through sexual differentiation *ARE* humans.

For all we know, the galaxy may be full of species of two or more distinct genders that don't reproduce sexually at all.

I'm not even sure I can think of one other example of a fictional, extraterrestrial species that is patterned male and doesn't reproduce sexually where a handful of men in its fandom *insists* they are genderless.

Well, Transformers is somewhat of an anomaly in it's lore. My point was that *I*, me specifically, see no real evidence of sexes in Transformers in the way that *I* define sexes, which, once again, is the necessary sexes required for reproduction. No sex, no sexes, no sexuality. And the point I originally made was that Cybertronians having labels as "gay" or "straight" doesn't make any God damn sense.

Well, my friend, you have been fighting a losing battle against canon since November 12, 1985.
But I appreciate your tenacity?

Oh, for God's sake . . . everyone has their own **** views on this, okay? Every continuity does it different. They do not have sex. Thats a fact. And in my mind, that is linked to the issue of gender and sexuality. I don't think the series has ever labeled the "gay" transformers as gay, right?

From what I can recall, they haven't labelled them as such because it's a human label. They just see themselves in a relationship. Which is how it should be in real life but we haven't natured enough to be able to do that, if and when single sex relationships are more common and treat the same as straight couples, then we can drop the labels on all.

ZeroWolf wrote:From what I can recall, they haven't labelled them as such because it's a human label. They just see themselves in a relationship. Which is how it should be in real life but we haven't natured enough to be able to do that, if and when single sex relationships are more common and treat the same as straight couples, then we can drop the labels on all.

That was exactly my point.

Ms. Trebuchette wrote:Well, my friend, you have been fighting a losing battle against canon since November 12, 1985.
But I appreciate your tenacity?

And I don't appreciate your condescension. Just because you don't agree with others' view, you shouldn't simply dismiss them like they don't matter, especially when they make good points. You did the same thing to Burn.