Botcon 2013 "Machine Wars: Termination" Production Sample Group Shot - Registration Ends Tonight

They honestly look quite good together.

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

I think these are good figures, in regards to a repaint, however they aren't spectacular. I feel like the club missed the opportunity to improve the color schemes of the machines wars pallets by adding more details. However, the way the club went about the color schemes, the figures are about as drab as the KB-toys figures (with the exception of Obsidian and strike).

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

2005 "Descent Into Evil" - 1 RiD mold, 2 Beast Wars molds, 1 G2 mold, 3 Energon molds

2006 "Dawn of Future's Past" - 4 Cybertron molds, 1 Armada mold

2008 "Shattered Glass" - 3 Classics molds, 3 Cybertron molds

2009 "Wings of Honor" - 3 Cybertron molds, 2 Energon molds

2010 "Generation 2: Redux" - 4 Universe molds, 1 Energon mold

2012 "Invasion" - 3 Reveal the Shield molds, 1 Universe mold, 1 ROTF mold, 1 Generations mold

2007 and 2011 are the only years that the boxed set has had all molds come from the same line. Mixing molds from different lines his hardly anything new with the BotCon boxed sets.

And that's not even getting into the souvenirs, the attendance freebies, the custom class figures, or the Club exclusives.

Am I the only one annoyed Hoist now has two eyes rather than his initial 'visor' look?

Now he looks less like MW Hoist than ever.

And there go my hopes of reusing the head for a Soundwave figure... bleh.

Sabrblade wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

2005 "Descent Into Evil" - 1 RiD mold, 2 Beast Wars molds, 1 G2 mold, 3 Energon molds

2006 "Dawn of Future's Past" - 4 Cybertron molds, 1 Armada mold

2008 "Shattered Glass" - 3 Classics molds, 3 Cybertron molds

2009 "Wings of Honor" - 3 Cybertron molds, 2 Energon molds

2010 "Generation 2: Redux" - 4 Universe molds, 1 Energon mold

2012 "Invasion" - 3 Reveal the Shield molds, 1 Universe mold, 1 ROTF mold, 1 Generations mold

2007 and 2011 are the only years that the boxed set has had all molds come from the same line. Mixing molds from different lines his hardly anything new with the BotCon boxed sets.

And that's not even getting into the souvenirs, the attendance freebies, the custom class figures, or the Club exclusives.

Except RiD and Beast Wars had a lot of mold in common. Energon and Cybertron have very similar aesthetics (along with much of Armada). Reveal the Shield, Universe and Generations might as well be the same line aesthetically. Prime and Animated have some similar looks. But among these characters, Prime molds do look a lot different. Though for me the standout character is Obsidian, followed by Megaplex.

However, this is a matter of personal taste. It actually doesn't matter if past BotCon sets are mostly composed of different lines. Past lines have felt more cohesive due to the selection of (albeit cross-series) toys and appropriate paintjobs. This is an eye of the beholder deal, and not something that can be proved by facts. I also don't recall the poster saying anything about past BotCons not using the same molds.

Sabrblade wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

2005 "Descent Into Evil" - 1 RiD mold, 2 Beast Wars molds, 1 G2 mold, 3 Energon molds

2006 "Dawn of Future's Past" - 4 Cybertron molds, 1 Armada mold

2008 "Shattered Glass" - 3 Classics molds, 3 Cybertron molds

2009 "Wings of Honor" - 3 Cybertron molds, 2 Energon molds

2010 "Generation 2: Redux" - 4 Universe molds, 1 Energon mold

2012 "Invasion" - 3 Reveal the Shield molds, 1 Universe mold, 1 ROTF mold, 1 Generations mold

2007 and 2011 are the only years that the boxed set has had all molds come from the same line. Mixing molds from different lines his hardly anything new with the BotCon boxed sets.

And that's not even getting into the souvenirs, the attendance freebies, the custom class figures, or the Club exclusives.

And I don't think your list is getting at the point here. The post was not about the mixing of lines or even any call for a unified box set made up of only one line at a time, but rather that one of the molds in this set looks out of place amongst the other ones. I hardly think anyone needs to write out a list of what figures were used in any given set to think that some one of them looks odd alongside the others.
It's not about the lines the molds are from but rather the way they look together. Take 2008 for example: earth car, earth car, earth truck, dinosaur, Cybertronian jet. Starscream in the 2008 box set looks out of place or odd next to the other toys, even with the other two toys from the same line as Starscream.

Well, let's also not forget that this is Machine Wars we're talking about here, whose molds already consisted of bricky Euro G1 molds and unreleased extra-articulated (for the time) flipchanging late G2 molds mixed together, and whose color schemes were so whack out nd diver from each other that the only constant shared between the all was some gray and the occasional shade of puke brown. Not to mention its giant Starscream, tiny Megatron and Seekers, and Optimus being in the same size class as Starscream despite Screamer being twice his size.

For this set to be as non-cohesive as the original toyline its recalling is honestly quite fitting.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let's also not forget that this is Machine Wars we're talking about here, whose molds already consisted of bricky Euro G1 molds and unreleased extra-articulated (for the time) flipchanging late G2 molds mixed together, and whose color schemes were so whack out nd diver from each other that the only constant shared between the all was some gray and the occasional shade of puke brown. Not to mention its giant Starscream, tiny Megatron and Seekers, and Optimus being in the same size class as Starscream despite Screamer being twice his size.

For this set to be as non-cohesive as the original toyline its recalling is honestly quite fitting.

although size classes were radically out of scale, and the paint jobs were drab during machine wars' one wave, they shared, more or less, similar late g2's aesthetic value. The flip changers and G1 in general had been mixed together in other toylines, such as beast wars II and late G2.

for the same logic to apply on this set, Prime, R.o.t.F, clasics/universe would have needed to be mixed in one toyline, and used together on other occasions for other toylines and sets.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:although size classes were radically out of scale, and the paint jobs were drab during machine wars' one wave, they shared, more or less, similar late g2's aesthetic value.

Aside from the Go-Bots and the Auto Rollers, "late G2" (circa 1995) didn't have any toys as bricky and inarticulate as the G1 Predators and Turbomasters.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:The flip changers and G1 in general had been mixed together in other toylines, such as beast wars II and late G2.

And it was just as awkward in that line as it was in Machine Wars.

Especially when you got Megastorm towering over everybody when he's much smaller than his toy in the cartoon and his Gigastorm form is supposed to be bigger.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:for the same logic to apply on this set, Prime, R.o.t.F, clasics/universe would have needed to be mixed in one toyline, and used together on other occasions for other toylines and sets.

Well, Reveal the Shield had molds from both the ROTF/Movieverse style and the Classics-style.

And the GDO Generations line had molds from both the above two styles and Prime Cliffjumper's mold.

Sabrblade wrote:Aside from the Go-Bots and the Auto Rollers, "late G2" (circa 1995) didn't have any toys as bricky and inarticulate as the G1 Predators and Turbomasters.

well if we're counting the beast wars II dirge and thrust as g2 molds then we can count the reused g1 figure planned for 1995, however you're right, i should have clarified Mid to late G2

Sabrblade wrote:And it was just as awkward in that line as it was in Machine Wars. Especially when you got Megastorm towering over everybody when he's much smaller than his toy in the cartoon and his Gigastorm form is supposed to be bigger.

awkward yes, however they were still used in those lines as common place, although odd, the more they were used the less odd it was over time to see the G2 flipformers used with other kinds of figure. Not sure what megastorm and gigastorm actually have to do with this though, as we're comparing something with media, to something without. i was talking strictly toyline.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, Reveal the Shield had molds from both the ROTF/Movieverse style and the Classics-style.
And the GDO Generations line had molds from both the above two styles and Prime Cliffjumper's mold.

and the other times besiden GDO? transformers 2010-12/reveal the shield lines don't count as it only used movie and classics-verse molds, while prime (1st edition and P.R.I.D) were separate. i'm asking for two more separate toylines and or sets, not counting botcon 13, where movie, classic, and prime figure were all used at once

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Aside from the Go-Bots and the Auto Rollers, "late G2" (circa 1995) didn't have any toys as bricky and inarticulate as the G1 Predators and Turbomasters.

well if we're counting the beast wars II dirge and thrust as g2 molds then we can count the reused g1 figure planned for 1995, however you're right, i should have clarified Mid to late G2

I was talking about how you said all of the MW toys were of a similar aesthetic to the latter G2 toys, which the Predator and Turbomaster toys that MW were not.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And it was just as awkward in that line as it was in Machine Wars. Especially when you got Megastorm towering over everybody when he's much smaller than his toy in the cartoon and his Gigastorm form is supposed to be bigger.

awkward yes, however they were still used in those lines as common place, although odd, the more they were used the less odd it was over time to see the G2 flipformers used with other kinds of figure. Not sure what megastorm and gigastorm actually have to do with this though, as we're comparing something with media, to something without. i was talking strictly toyline.

Well, if it's acceptable for BWII to use molds from early G2, late G2, and BW, then why is it unacceptable for this set to use molds from three different aesthetics as well?

Also, even regardless of the cartoon, toys like Megastorm, Gigastorm, The Autorollers, and the Seacons were all of a different aesthetic from the rest of the line, and so felt awkward with them being placed alongside molds that were far more articulated and advanced in design.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, Reveal the Shield had molds from both the ROTF/Movieverse style and the Classics-style.
And the GDO Generations line had molds from both the above two styles and Prime Cliffjumper's mold.

and the other times besiden GDO? transformers 2010-12/reveal the shield lines don't count as it only used movie and classics-verse molds, while prime (1st edition and P.R.I.D) were separate. i'm asking for two more separate toylines and or sets, not counting botcon 13, where movie, classic, and prime figure were all used at once

Well, the 2003 Universe line used molds from all kinds of toylines. G1, G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RiD, Armada, Energon.

The RobotMasters line had both new molds and molds from G2, Beast Wars, and Machine Wars.

The Robots in Disguise line had both new molds and molds from G1, G2, Beast Wars, Machine Wars, and Beast Machines.

The 2008 Universe line had both new "Classics-style" molds and molds from Cybertron, Classics (yeah, I know, same aesthetic as the new mold, but listed for completion's sake), Titanium, Armada, and Masterpiece.

The Kiss Players line had molds from Binaltech/Alternators, G1, and Beast Wars.

The United toyline eventually grew to using molds from Cybertron, Energon, Beast Wars, and Power Core Combiners in addition to its own "Classics-style" molds.

And then there's the Generations line, which contains at least three different aesthetics in and of itself: WFC/FOC, Classics-style, and "Thrilling 30", the latter of which being the style of the IDW comics.

Sabrblade wrote:I was talking about how you said all of the MW toys were of a similar aesthetic to the latter G2 toys, which the Predator and Turbomaster toys that MW were not.

Okay well then, the you're right i was wrong. Again to make my point i should had have said mid to late g2. The reason i think the aesthetic values were similar, was because the later g2 figures were an evolution in engineering from late g1/ euro g1. the figures were still blocky in a aesthetic since, styledized limbs were built around an articulated figure. Machine wars used the old type of figure with the new.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, if it's acceptable for BWII to use molds from early G2, late G2, and BW, then why is it unacceptable for this set to use molds from three different aesthetics as well?

Also, even regardless of the cartoon, toys like Megastorm, Gigastorm, The Autorollers, and the Seacons were all of a different aesthetic from the rest of the line, and so felt awkward with them being placed alongside molds that were far more articulated and advanced in design.

The reason it's acceptable in instances like beast wars II, is because the figures of g2, g1, and best wars were used together in more than one line. The figures from ROTF P.R.I.D and classics havent been used in together mulitiple lines. I also wasn't saying the use of g1, g2 and beast wars in a line wasn't odd, i was just using Beast wars II as an example of another line were both the flip jets and g1/g2 were used together. The basic point being that of the flip formers and g1/g2's repetitive use together.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, the 2003 Universe line used molds from all kinds of toylines. G1, G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RiD, Armada, Energon.

The RobotMasters line had both new molds and molds from G2, Beast Wars, and Machine Wars.

The Robots in Disguise line had both new molds and molds from G1, G2, Beast Wars, Machine Wars, and Beast Machines.

The 2008 Universe line had both new "Classics-style" molds and molds from Cybertron, Classics (yeah, I know, same aesthetic as the new mold, but listed for completion's sake), Titanium, Armada, and Masterpiece.

The Kiss Players line had molds from Binaltech/Alternators, G1, and Beast Wars.

The United toyline eventually grew to using molds from Cybertron, Energon, Beast Wars, and Power Core Combiners in addition to its own "Classics-style" molds.

And then there's the Generations line, which contains at least three different aesthetics in and of itself: WFC/FOC, Classics-style, and "Thrilling 30", the latter of which being the style of the IDW comics.

You didn't answer my question, you gave examples of other mixed toy lines, i asked for ROTF, P.R.I.D/1st edition, and Classics all together in two other lines, beside GDO. Again my basic point is still that of repetitive use

SW's SilverHammer wrote:You didn't answer my question, you gave examples of other mixed toy lines, i asked for ROTF, P.R.I.D/1st edition, and Classics all together in two other lines, beside GDO. Again my basic point is still that of repetitive use

Why do those specific ones matter any more than any other trio of lines? All three of those are no further apart from each other design-wise than, say, G1 and Beast Machines, or Beast Wars and Armada, or Cybertron and Titanium. What makes thsoe three stand out more than any other toyline trio?

Plus, toys like the ROTF Bludgeon mold weren't designed by Paramount, so those kinds of movieverse toys were given aesthetic treatment similar to/closer to those of the Classics-style toys, only while still trying to remain within the Movie aesthetic enough to keep them under that classification (unlike the Movie 1 straight up Cybertron/Classics redecos that Walmart and TRU got).

And there's the fact that the Prime FE toys were designed with the Generations toyline in mind, making them able to evoke that aesthetic while still physically resembling the cartoon's CG models.

You're simply not going to get the answer you want because, outside of GDO, the era of the Movieverse molds died right after DOTM, which is when the Prime RID toyline came into being. That is why I gave examples from other past toylines since they're all we have to work with to fit the criteria of one toyline mixing molds from different previous lines of differing aesthetics.

Sabrblade wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:You didn't answer my question, you gave examples of other mixed toy lines, i asked for ROTF, P.R.I.D/1st edition, and Classics all together in two other lines, beside GDO. Again my basic point is still that of repetitive use

Why do those specific ones matter any more than any other trio of lines? All three of those are no further apart from each other design-wise than, say, G1 and Beast Machines, or Beast Wars and Armada, or Cybertron and Titanium. What makes thsoe three stand out more than any other toyline trio?

Plus, toys like the ROTF Bludgeon mold weren't designed by Paramount, so those kinds of movieverse toys were given aesthetic treatment similar to/closer to those of the Classics-style toys, only while still trying to remain within the Movie aesthetic enough to keep them under that classification (unlike the Movie 1 straight up Cybertron/Classics redecos that Walmart and TRU got).

And there's the fact that the Prime FE toys were designed with the Generations toyline in mind, making them able to evoke that aesthetic while still physically resembling the cartoon's CG models.

You're simply not going to get the answer you want because, outside of GDO, the era of the Movieverse molds died right after DOTM, which is when the Prime RID toyline came into being. That is why I gave examples from other past toylines since they're all we have to work with to fit the criteria of one toyline mixing molds from different previous lines of differing aesthetics.

There it is, you've finally given the answer i wanted. There are no other instances were movie, classics and prime were together. The reason why these three lines are important is because these are what funpubs using. Although mismatched, the reason why g2 flipjets and g1 figures work together is minus the aesthetic value, they have been paired together on multiple occasions, beast wars II, universe 2003, robots in disguise, robot masters, and machine wars. Although odd together initially, their continued use together makes it comparatively more normal for them to be paired. The use of movie, classics, and prime have only occured during this botcon set an gdo, making it jarring for them to be together. If all three shared a line of resuse multiple times, it be somehat smoother, however they haven't, and all three have very different aesthetic values, barring some exceptions like bludgeon, who was initially created as part of classics universe.

Regardless of whatever precedents have been set before, Prime figures are too aesthetically different to be part of a CHUG set. Fun Pub have reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of what they have to work with, and boy, does it show. IMO of course.

Yeah, I think you hit on something... FunPub has to choose from a "small" pool of available toys. Some Hasbro/Takara deem off limits (characters about to hit the shelves), some are copyright issues (movie toys), some molds degraded, some lost or destroyed forever...

Given these circumstances, they have to choose molds that are good fits, and look good together... which obviously works better some years than others. BUT we do have to acknowledge they have their hands and one foot tied behind their back, so hats of for trying hard each year.

That said, these fit together better than I THOUGHT they would when they mentioned the chosen toys from three lines. Honestly, I think if a 3rd party head surfaces for the big guy, the TF Prime mold choice will probably bother me LEAST.

The movie bots clearly match less (and my lest favorite mold choices), but I think the unified color scheme helps them fit okay in the lineup. (and it helps that no dog-leg bots were used in the making of this production. Cripes, I hated that look through the movie. Starscream always looked like a top-heavy giant triangle with dog legs attached... and a waspinator head for good measure.)

Before passing final judgement, I realize we've only seen 1/3 of the convention bots. A lot can happen from here. Lots of reveals to come. I'll withhold judgement on the set till I see the rest. They may counterbalance the couple of odd-men-out.

I don't get too excited or angry about these sets anymore. I go every year and choose what I want to keep and sell the rest. It's that simple.

You're a brave soul, Delicon! It's tough to break up a collector's set! Given, if you don't get the box, it probably lessens the blow.

What are you planning to keep sell this year?? (And what sticks out from what you've sold (or just HAD to keep) in previous years?) Curious what kind of criteria you have.

I'm really digging MW Starscream's paint job. Now all he needs is a cape and a little Galvatron cannon. lol...



Also got the same assembly flaw in my Hoist as Vangelus found in 4 others. And based on the promo shot in the first post I think its going to be in all of them. Doh..!

I never would've guessed Screamer for the attendee freebie...

Still, he looks sweet in that paint job. I must have it.

helli0n wrote:I'm really digging MW Starscream's paint job. Now all he needs is a cape and a little Galvatron cannon. lol...



Also got the same assembly flaw in my Hoist as Vangelus found in 4 others. And based on the promo shot in the first post I think its going to be in all of them. Doh..!

What's the assembly flaw?

And Starscream looks AMAZING. I want it...badly...but it'll cost so much, I don't think my wallet will let me.

I look forward to the Galvatron cannons people will no doubt make for him on Shapeways, haha.

RAcast wrote:What's the assembly flaw?

The shoulders are switched. Just checked mine. Same problem.

Sabrblade wrote:

RAcast wrote:What's the assembly flaw?

The shoulders are switched. Just checked mine. Same problem.

So the pins that attach the wheels to the shoulders face out?

Does it mess with the transformation in any way?

Mindmaster wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RAcast wrote:What's the assembly flaw?

The shoulders are switched. Just checked mine. Same problem.

So the pins that attach the wheels to the shoulders face out?

Does it mess with the transformation in any way?

It's that his left shoulder is on his right and his right shoulder is on his left, leaving him unable to put his arms straight down in a relaxed position, making him constantly have his arms spread outward.

The transformation is unaffected, but the robot mode is still awkward.

So... the final verdict.

I bought Starscream, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Megaplex, Obsidian, Sandstorm, Mirage, and the Rainmakers. That's ten of these pricey convention exclusives. I'm now giving serious thought to buying Strika as well, so I can make it an equal four on four battle, and have a nice, complete Machine Wars display.

When this set was announced, I knew I'd buy Skywarp, and by extension, his inevitable Thundercracker redeco. After the five members of the box set were announced, I felt a wave of relief. There was no way I'd spend much money. Obsidian and Strika may have looked cool, but they weren't characters I had a great deal of affection for. Megaplex didn't have a new Megatron head, and was thus skippable. I never had any interest in Hoist at all.

And yet... as the months went on, my opinion changed. I would consider getting Megaplex, to lead his Decepticons. He looked less and less like a repainted Dreadwing as time went on. Obsidian's color swap made me realize I would buy him, which brought the total to three. When I saw the production sample of Megaplex and especially the paint detail added to his "helmet", I knew I'd get four.

Surely nothing else would capture my attention...

...until I saw the rumored list, and Starscream using the Terradive mold. Having never owned the original Skyquake or the Machine Wars redeco, I had no need for Starscream to be a titan. And a clone of Megatron would need his reliable traitor. No Decepticon force is complete without its Starscream.

And finally, when the show came around... I saw the Rainmakers and Sandstorm. I fell in love with the former, and bought the latter because I saw him available for a great price, and thought he fit the Machine Wars aesthetic better than the other Autobots.

Though I found good deals on most, I still spent way, way more money than I'd intended. And I am euphoric for what I have received in return.

I bashed this set for months. I was wrong to have done so.

I'm sure this set still has many detractors, but it absolutely shattered my expectations and I am grateful to bear witness. This is a great, really self contained set, and one I can't wait to really play with. These being very expensive pieces of plastic, I'm less likely to run around pretending Obsidian and the Decepticons are engaged in a vicious dogfight, but I'm really enjoying actually sitting down and playing out battles, rather than putting my convention exclusives on a shelf to display.

I don't know how it happened exactly, but something about this set turned me around completely.

^ Great post! I derided this set initially as well, but holy moly, I put everything together with my original Machine Wars toys and, well, they pulled it off. I now have a bigger Machine Wars display and it looks great. Only Strika feels a little out of place, but that's probably because she's the only purple bot in there.

And if anyone hasn't read the Burcham comic that goes along with the set, pick up the Diamond version when it hits. It's super fun and it made me want to keep the Megaplex head that came with my set attached and put the Renderform one away in a pile of parts.

I'm getting ready to work on the BotCon 2014 galleries later this week. I compiled a list of each mold along with its mold counterparts. Can you guys take a look at this list to see if I left off anything needed for comparison pics?

"Machine Wars" and "G2" refers to this year's BotCon set. While I own Arms Micron Dreadwing and I think I own United Warpath, I didn't include any other Japanese variants other than the ones that are on this list, because I only own variants that are noticeably different than the U.S. version.

Machine Wars Skywarp
Machine Wars Thundercracker
HFTD Jetblade
ROTF Dirge

Machine Wars Strika
Machine Wars Blastcharge
Generations Warpath
United Warpath

Machine Wars Obsidian
HFTD Highbrow
Generations Powerdive

Machine Wars Megaplex
Arms Micron Dreadwing
TFP Dreadwing
TFP Skyquake

Machine Wars Hoist
G2 Electro
Generations Swerve
United Kup
United Battle Damaged Kup

Machine Wars Mirage
Classics Mirage
Movie Fracture
Universe Drag Strip
BotCon Hologram Mirage
Henkei Mirage
Henkei Electro Disruptor Ligier

Machine Wars Sandstorm
DOTM Skyhammer

Machine Wars Starscream
Club Depth Charge
HFTD Terradive
DOTM Space Case

Rainmaker Bitstream
Rainmaker Hotlink
Rainmaker Sunstorm
… and 27 other uses of this mold

I think you've got everything accounted for, as far as base molds go. Are there comparisons of the original toys each exclusive is based on (dumb question)?

Mindmaster wrote:I think you've got everything accounted for, as far as base molds go. Are there comparisons of the original toys each exclusive is based on (dumb question)?

That is correct. For example, Machine Wars Mirage will have a comparison shot with the other 6 versions of this mold. Maybe I'll even do Fracture's gallery at long last while I have her out.

Seibertron wrote:

Mindmaster wrote:I think you've got everything accounted for, as far as base molds go. Are there comparisons of the original toys each exclusive is based on (dumb question)?

That is correct. For example, Machine Wars Mirage will have a comparison shot with the other 6 versions of this mold. Maybe I'll even do Fracture's gallery at long last while I have her out.

Alrighty then. I shall patiently wait for the galleries to be pumped out.

Seibertron wrote:Machine Wars Hoist
G2 Electro
Generations Swerve
United Kup
United Battle Damaged Kup

What about Generations Sergeant Kup?

Hey sabrblade, you know allot more about the inner workings of Funpub than most of us here; isn't there some kinda agreement they abide by that states the wont use previously used molds for new exclusives? like they shouldn't have been able to use the classics seeker and mirage molds for the rainmakers and machine wars mirage because they already used those molds for Botcon thundercracker and BotCon Hologram Mirage. Because i remember you or JelZe GoldRabbit saying that there is something like that in their terms of service with hasbro.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Hey sabrblade, you know allot more about the inner workings of Funpub than most of us here; isn't there some kinda agreement they abide by that states the wont use previously used molds for new exclusives? like they shouldn't have been able to use the classics seeker and mirage molds for the rainmakers and machine wars mirage because they already used those molds for Botcon thundercracker and BotCon Hologram Mirage. Because i remember you or JelZe GoldRabbit saying that there is something like that in their terms of service with hasbro.

I think with their having used the Seeker mold and Mirage mold more than once means that they can reuse molds.

But, I'd imagine they wouldn't make a habit of it.

Then again, this past BotCon showed quite a demand for even more uses of the Seeker mold, so... who knows?

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Hey sabrblade, you know allot more about the inner workings of Funpub than most of us here; isn't there some kinda agreement they abide by that states the wont use previously used molds for new exclusives? like they shouldn't have been able to use the classics seeker and mirage molds for the rainmakers and machine wars mirage because they already used those molds for Botcon thundercracker and BotCon Hologram Mirage. Because i remember you or JelZe GoldRabbit saying that there is something like that in their terms of service with hasbro.

There's no such rule in place. It was something that the fans brewed up in their imaginations after seeing The Club pass over some really obvious ideas (in the fans' minds anyways) in favour of something that used a different mold. There are many reasons that influences what characters The Club can use - availability and condition are the primary factors. Basically if it works for the character they want, and they can use the mold, they'll go for it.

Mkall wrote:There's no such rule in place. It was something that the fans brewed up in their imaginations after seeing The Club pass over some really obvious ideas (in the fans' minds anyways) in favour of something that used a different mold. There are many reasons that influences what characters The Club can use - availability and condition are the primary factors. Basically if it works for the character they want, and they can use the mold, they'll go for it.

I knew condition and availability were factors, so thanks for clearing the "reuse" factor up . I won't lie, i wouldn't mind knowing what factors play into the availability for non-licensed figures, because hasbro has to put a cap on molds of certain age right?

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Hey sabrblade, you know allot more about the inner workings of Funpub than most of us here; isn't there some kinda agreement they abide by that states the wont use previously used molds for new exclusives? like they shouldn't have been able to use the classics seeker and mirage molds for the rainmakers and machine wars mirage because they already used those molds for Botcon thundercracker and BotCon Hologram Mirage. Because i remember you or JelZe GoldRabbit saying that there is something like that in their terms of service with hasbro.

I remember reading somewhere that Fun Pub wont reuse molds in the box sets but will reuse them for souvenir sets however that is a personal rule and not an agreement with Hasbro. I also could be wrong about it but I seem to remember that.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:I knew condition and availability were factors, so thanks for clearing the "reuse" factor up . I won't lie, i wouldn't mind knowing what factors play into the availability for non-licensed figures, because hasbro has to put a cap on molds of certain age right?

My understanding is, either the mold is in use by Hasbro or Takara, or the mold has degraded/been damaged/been lost. That's why A/E/C molds are no longer used by The Club as, if you believe what The Club says, they have degraded beyond use.

HOWEVER, I should point out that the Classics Starscream mold was used, which was made in 2006, at the peak of Energon/Cybertron figures. If A/E/C molds can't be used, then why Starscream, who is of the same mold-age?

Oh the conspiracies.

Mkall wrote:
HOWEVER, I should point out that the Classics Starscream mold was used, which was made in 2006, at the peak of Energon/Cybertron figures. If A/E/C molds can't be used, then why Starscream, who is of the same mold-age?

Oh the conspiracies.

Yeah that was one of the things i was thinking, that the Classics 06-07 should be near the same quality degradation as cybertron. Unless there's a loophole in that they can use reissues, like they aren't using mirage, they're using dragstrip or they're using acid storm and not 06 starscream. The only thing is i've heard Dragstrip and the subsequent seekers have suffered from degradation soooo i have no idea at this point

The Classics Starscream mold has been updated time and again, whereas the UT molds haven't all gotten such treatment.

Those BotCon 2013 galleries... why not include comparisons with the original Machine Wars figures, where applicable?

Hoist, Sandstorm, Mirage, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Starscream, and Megaplex side by side with their 1997 incarnations? Especially the former three, as the original toys no longer seem to have any reason to exist.

Sabrblade wrote:The Classics Starscream mold has been updated time and again, whereas the UT molds haven't all gotten such treatment.

Maybe so, but I don't think the Mirage mold has been.

Besides, all we're really doing is throwing around speculation. Such speculation easily turns into so-called facts. Maybe Classics molds were just made from sterner stuff?

Then again, who cares? The rainmakers look awesome!

Mkall wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The Classics Starscream mold has been updated time and again, whereas the UT molds haven't all gotten such treatment.

Maybe so, but I don't think the Mirage mold has been.

Besides, all we're really doing is throwing around speculation. Such speculation easily turns into so-called facts. Maybe Classics molds were just made from sterner stuff?

Maybe. Though, the Seeker mold's been used ans abused to death, whereas the Mirage mold hasn't, so it may not have worn out as much over time. Or, it might have been reinforced when it got used for Drag Strip in 2008. HasTak only knows.

Either way, pre-2006 molds (minus odd cases like G1 reissues, the Platinum Edition TF: Energon molds, or TCC FSS Ultra Mammoth) seem to be too old to use nowadays.

Wait, didn't the club say back then that they weren't going to use Unicron trilogy stuff anymore since they used molds from that era so much that it got old and boring?
That the molds are detoriated was never brought up, it was more along the lines of yea we're sick of them.

Dead Metal wrote:Wait, didn't the club say back then that they weren't going to use Unicron trilogy stuff anymore since they used molds from that era so much that it got old and boring?
That the molds are detoriated was never brought up, it was more along the lines of yea we're sick of them.

I read that the molds were deteriorating, and were too damaged to use. Which is a shame: I really liked the use of the Unicron Trilogy molds.

Mindmaster wrote:
I read that the molds were deteriorating, and were too damaged to use. Which is a shame: I really liked the use of the Unicron Trilogy molds.

Indeed. They had some really fun figures that came out of those eras. I enjoy some even more than many of the newer Generations molds.

Mkall wrote:

Mindmaster wrote:
I read that the molds were deteriorating, and were too damaged to use. Which is a shame: I really liked the use of the Unicron Trilogy molds.

Indeed. They had some really fun figures that came out of those eras. I enjoy some even more than many of the newer Generations molds.

Here's the question, how the hell did they manage to deteriorate? I mean most of them haven't been used that much, plus the production numbers on the UT weren't as high as current lines.

Well, here's the original message I got from Greg "M Sipher" Sepelak when I asked about which molds the Club wouldn't be able to use:

M Sipher wrote:I've been part of the group who's worked on the box sets and countless proposals thereof for several years now. I know from first-hand experience trying to put the sets together in the first place which groups are avoided, so we don't waste time pitching stuff that has a microscopic chance of happening.

On-screen movie stuff and a good chunk of non-screen Movie stuff is off-limits thanks to licensing concerns. UT molds are pretty much written off as unusable due to age and overuse (take a look at the Movie Breakaway made from Cybertron Hot Shot. That toy is ROUGH).

Believe me, nobody at FP is particularly keen on having LESS mold options, but that's the reality.


M "And You Can Never Tell When Any Individual Mold Might Suddenly Be Off The Table For Whatever Reason" Sipher

Dead Metal wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Mindmaster wrote:
I read that the molds were deteriorating, and were too damaged to use. Which is a shame: I really liked the use of the Unicron Trilogy molds.

Indeed. They had some really fun figures that came out of those eras. I enjoy some even more than many of the newer Generations molds.

Here's the question, how the hell did they manage to deteriorate? I mean most of them haven't been used that much, plus the production numbers on the UT weren't as high as current lines.

Sometimes old age can do as much damage, depending on environmental factors. Some molds have shown signs of aging between years of single uses, like G1 Jazz for G2 or G2 Hero Prime for RiD Destructicon Scourge. Sometimes minor retools can make a mold deteriorate faster than normal I believe.

Still, I think FunPub made a conscious choice in not using the UT molds for the sake of variety, and not running the risk of breaking them during production (that actually happened with a G.I. Joe exclusive) though don't be surprised if they pop up again when the situation calls for it and there's no alternative. Look at the curveball that is 2013 Mirage.

this guy was begging for a new head because he looks nothing like Megatron.