Botcon 2013 "Machine Wars: Termination" Production Sample Group Shot - Registration Ends Tonight

They honestly look quite good together.

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

I think these are good figures, in regards to a repaint, however they aren't spectacular. I feel like the club missed the opportunity to improve the color schemes of the machines wars pallets by adding more details. However, the way the club went about the color schemes, the figures are about as drab as the KB-toys figures (with the exception of Obsidian and strike).

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

2005 "Descent Into Evil" - 1 RiD mold, 2 Beast Wars molds, 1 G2 mold, 3 Energon molds

2006 "Dawn of Future's Past" - 4 Cybertron molds, 1 Armada mold

2008 "Shattered Glass" - 3 Classics molds, 3 Cybertron molds

2009 "Wings of Honor" - 3 Cybertron molds, 2 Energon molds

2010 "Generation 2: Redux" - 4 Universe molds, 1 Energon mold

2012 "Invasion" - 3 Reveal the Shield molds, 1 Universe mold, 1 ROTF mold, 1 Generations mold

2007 and 2011 are the only years that the boxed set has had all molds come from the same line. Mixing molds from different lines his hardly anything new with the BotCon boxed sets.

And that's not even getting into the souvenirs, the attendance freebies, the custom class figures, or the Club exclusives.

Am I the only one annoyed Hoist now has two eyes rather than his initial 'visor' look?

Now he looks less like MW Hoist than ever.

And there go my hopes of reusing the head for a Soundwave figure... bleh.

Sabrblade wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

2005 "Descent Into Evil" - 1 RiD mold, 2 Beast Wars molds, 1 G2 mold, 3 Energon molds

2006 "Dawn of Future's Past" - 4 Cybertron molds, 1 Armada mold

2008 "Shattered Glass" - 3 Classics molds, 3 Cybertron molds

2009 "Wings of Honor" - 3 Cybertron molds, 2 Energon molds

2010 "Generation 2: Redux" - 4 Universe molds, 1 Energon mold

2012 "Invasion" - 3 Reveal the Shield molds, 1 Universe mold, 1 ROTF mold, 1 Generations mold

2007 and 2011 are the only years that the boxed set has had all molds come from the same line. Mixing molds from different lines his hardly anything new with the BotCon boxed sets.

And that's not even getting into the souvenirs, the attendance freebies, the custom class figures, or the Club exclusives.

Except RiD and Beast Wars had a lot of mold in common. Energon and Cybertron have very similar aesthetics (along with much of Armada). Reveal the Shield, Universe and Generations might as well be the same line aesthetically. Prime and Animated have some similar looks. But among these characters, Prime molds do look a lot different. Though for me the standout character is Obsidian, followed by Megaplex.

However, this is a matter of personal taste. It actually doesn't matter if past BotCon sets are mostly composed of different lines. Past lines have felt more cohesive due to the selection of (albeit cross-series) toys and appropriate paintjobs. This is an eye of the beholder deal, and not something that can be proved by facts. I also don't recall the poster saying anything about past BotCons not using the same molds.

Sabrblade wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They honestly look quite good together.

For serious? I would agree on 3 or 4 out of 5 at a push, but that prime dreadwing mould sticks out like a sore thumb. Its almost as jarring as having an animated mould in the mix. Even an original headsculpt may have improved its cohesiveness but as it is? Noo ways.

2005 "Descent Into Evil" - 1 RiD mold, 2 Beast Wars molds, 1 G2 mold, 3 Energon molds

2006 "Dawn of Future's Past" - 4 Cybertron molds, 1 Armada mold

2008 "Shattered Glass" - 3 Classics molds, 3 Cybertron molds

2009 "Wings of Honor" - 3 Cybertron molds, 2 Energon molds

2010 "Generation 2: Redux" - 4 Universe molds, 1 Energon mold

2012 "Invasion" - 3 Reveal the Shield molds, 1 Universe mold, 1 ROTF mold, 1 Generations mold

2007 and 2011 are the only years that the boxed set has had all molds come from the same line. Mixing molds from different lines his hardly anything new with the BotCon boxed sets.

And that's not even getting into the souvenirs, the attendance freebies, the custom class figures, or the Club exclusives.

And I don't think your list is getting at the point here. The post was not about the mixing of lines or even any call for a unified box set made up of only one line at a time, but rather that one of the molds in this set looks out of place amongst the other ones. I hardly think anyone needs to write out a list of what figures were used in any given set to think that some one of them looks odd alongside the others.
It's not about the lines the molds are from but rather the way they look together. Take 2008 for example: earth car, earth car, earth truck, dinosaur, Cybertronian jet. Starscream in the 2008 box set looks out of place or odd next to the other toys, even with the other two toys from the same line as Starscream.

Well, let's also not forget that this is Machine Wars we're talking about here, whose molds already consisted of bricky Euro G1 molds and unreleased extra-articulated (for the time) flipchanging late G2 molds mixed together, and whose color schemes were so whack out nd diver from each other that the only constant shared between the all was some gray and the occasional shade of puke brown. Not to mention its giant Starscream, tiny Megatron and Seekers, and Optimus being in the same size class as Starscream despite Screamer being twice his size.

For this set to be as non-cohesive as the original toyline its recalling is honestly quite fitting.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let's also not forget that this is Machine Wars we're talking about here, whose molds already consisted of bricky Euro G1 molds and unreleased extra-articulated (for the time) flipchanging late G2 molds mixed together, and whose color schemes were so whack out nd diver from each other that the only constant shared between the all was some gray and the occasional shade of puke brown. Not to mention its giant Starscream, tiny Megatron and Seekers, and Optimus being in the same size class as Starscream despite Screamer being twice his size.

For this set to be as non-cohesive as the original toyline its recalling is honestly quite fitting.

although size classes were radically out of scale, and the paint jobs were drab during machine wars' one wave, they shared, more or less, similar late g2's aesthetic value. The flip changers and G1 in general had been mixed together in other toylines, such as beast wars II and late G2.

for the same logic to apply on this set, Prime, R.o.t.F, clasics/universe would have needed to be mixed in one toyline, and used together on other occasions for other toylines and sets.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:although size classes were radically out of scale, and the paint jobs were drab during machine wars' one wave, they shared, more or less, similar late g2's aesthetic value.

Aside from the Go-Bots and the Auto Rollers, "late G2" (circa 1995) didn't have any toys as bricky and inarticulate as the G1 Predators and Turbomasters.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:The flip changers and G1 in general had been mixed together in other toylines, such as beast wars II and late G2.

And it was just as awkward in that line as it was in Machine Wars.

Especially when you got Megastorm towering over everybody when he's much smaller than his toy in the cartoon and his Gigastorm form is supposed to be bigger.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:for the same logic to apply on this set, Prime, R.o.t.F, clasics/universe would have needed to be mixed in one toyline, and used together on other occasions for other toylines and sets.

Well, Reveal the Shield had molds from both the ROTF/Movieverse style and the Classics-style.

And the GDO Generations line had molds from both the above two styles and Prime Cliffjumper's mold.

Sabrblade wrote:Aside from the Go-Bots and the Auto Rollers, "late G2" (circa 1995) didn't have any toys as bricky and inarticulate as the G1 Predators and Turbomasters.

well if we're counting the beast wars II dirge and thrust as g2 molds then we can count the reused g1 figure planned for 1995, however you're right, i should have clarified Mid to late G2

Sabrblade wrote:And it was just as awkward in that line as it was in Machine Wars. Especially when you got Megastorm towering over everybody when he's much smaller than his toy in the cartoon and his Gigastorm form is supposed to be bigger.

awkward yes, however they were still used in those lines as common place, although odd, the more they were used the less odd it was over time to see the G2 flipformers used with other kinds of figure. Not sure what megastorm and gigastorm actually have to do with this though, as we're comparing something with media, to something without. i was talking strictly toyline.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, Reveal the Shield had molds from both the ROTF/Movieverse style and the Classics-style.
And the GDO Generations line had molds from both the above two styles and Prime Cliffjumper's mold.

and the other times besiden GDO? transformers 2010-12/reveal the shield lines don't count as it only used movie and classics-verse molds, while prime (1st edition and P.R.I.D) were separate. i'm asking for two more separate toylines and or sets, not counting botcon 13, where movie, classic, and prime figure were all used at once

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Aside from the Go-Bots and the Auto Rollers, "late G2" (circa 1995) didn't have any toys as bricky and inarticulate as the G1 Predators and Turbomasters.

well if we're counting the beast wars II dirge and thrust as g2 molds then we can count the reused g1 figure planned for 1995, however you're right, i should have clarified Mid to late G2

I was talking about how you said all of the MW toys were of a similar aesthetic to the latter G2 toys, which the Predator and Turbomaster toys that MW were not.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And it was just as awkward in that line as it was in Machine Wars. Especially when you got Megastorm towering over everybody when he's much smaller than his toy in the cartoon and his Gigastorm form is supposed to be bigger.

awkward yes, however they were still used in those lines as common place, although odd, the more they were used the less odd it was over time to see the G2 flipformers used with other kinds of figure. Not sure what megastorm and gigastorm actually have to do with this though, as we're comparing something with media, to something without. i was talking strictly toyline.

Well, if it's acceptable for BWII to use molds from early G2, late G2, and BW, then why is it unacceptable for this set to use molds from three different aesthetics as well?

Also, even regardless of the cartoon, toys like Megastorm, Gigastorm, The Autorollers, and the Seacons were all of a different aesthetic from the rest of the line, and so felt awkward with them being placed alongside molds that were far more articulated and advanced in design.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, Reveal the Shield had molds from both the ROTF/Movieverse style and the Classics-style.
And the GDO Generations line had molds from both the above two styles and Prime Cliffjumper's mold.

and the other times besiden GDO? transformers 2010-12/reveal the shield lines don't count as it only used movie and classics-verse molds, while prime (1st edition and P.R.I.D) were separate. i'm asking for two more separate toylines and or sets, not counting botcon 13, where movie, classic, and prime figure were all used at once

Well, the 2003 Universe line used molds from all kinds of toylines. G1, G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RiD, Armada, Energon.

The RobotMasters line had both new molds and molds from G2, Beast Wars, and Machine Wars.

The Robots in Disguise line had both new molds and molds from G1, G2, Beast Wars, Machine Wars, and Beast Machines.

The 2008 Universe line had both new "Classics-style" molds and molds from Cybertron, Classics (yeah, I know, same aesthetic as the new mold, but listed for completion's sake), Titanium, Armada, and Masterpiece.

The Kiss Players line had molds from Binaltech/Alternators, G1, and Beast Wars.

The United toyline eventually grew to using molds from Cybertron, Energon, Beast Wars, and Power Core Combiners in addition to its own "Classics-style" molds.

And then there's the Generations line, which contains at least three different aesthetics in and of itself: WFC/FOC, Classics-style, and "Thrilling 30", the latter of which being the style of the IDW comics.

Sabrblade wrote:I was talking about how you said all of the MW toys were of a similar aesthetic to the latter G2 toys, which the Predator and Turbomaster toys that MW were not.

Okay well then, the you're right i was wrong. Again to make my point i should had have said mid to late g2. The reason i think the aesthetic values were similar, was because the later g2 figures were an evolution in engineering from late g1/ euro g1. the figures were still blocky in a aesthetic since, styledized limbs were built around an articulated figure. Machine wars used the old type of figure with the new.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, if it's acceptable for BWII to use molds from early G2, late G2, and BW, then why is it unacceptable for this set to use molds from three different aesthetics as well?

Also, even regardless of the cartoon, toys like Megastorm, Gigastorm, The Autorollers, and the Seacons were all of a different aesthetic from the rest of the line, and so felt awkward with them being placed alongside molds that were far more articulated and advanced in design.

The reason it's acceptable in instances like beast wars II, is because the figures of g2, g1, and best wars were used together in more than one line. The figures from ROTF P.R.I.D and classics havent been used in together mulitiple lines. I also wasn't saying the use of g1, g2 and beast wars in a line wasn't odd, i was just using Beast wars II as an example of another line were both the flip jets and g1/g2 were used together. The basic point being that of the flip formers and g1/g2's repetitive use together.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, the 2003 Universe line used molds from all kinds of toylines. G1, G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RiD, Armada, Energon.

The RobotMasters line had both new molds and molds from G2, Beast Wars, and Machine Wars.

The Robots in Disguise line had both new molds and molds from G1, G2, Beast Wars, Machine Wars, and Beast Machines.

The 2008 Universe line had both new "Classics-style" molds and molds from Cybertron, Classics (yeah, I know, same aesthetic as the new mold, but listed for completion's sake), Titanium, Armada, and Masterpiece.

The Kiss Players line had molds from Binaltech/Alternators, G1, and Beast Wars.

The United toyline eventually grew to using molds from Cybertron, Energon, Beast Wars, and Power Core Combiners in addition to its own "Classics-style" molds.

And then there's the Generations line, which contains at least three different aesthetics in and of itself: WFC/FOC, Classics-style, and "Thrilling 30", the latter of which being the style of the IDW comics.

You didn't answer my question, you gave examples of other mixed toy lines, i asked for ROTF, P.R.I.D/1st edition, and Classics all together in two other lines, beside GDO. Again my basic point is still that of repetitive use

SW's SilverHammer wrote:You didn't answer my question, you gave examples of other mixed toy lines, i asked for ROTF, P.R.I.D/1st edition, and Classics all together in two other lines, beside GDO. Again my basic point is still that of repetitive use

Why do those specific ones matter any more than any other trio of lines? All three of those are no further apart from each other design-wise than, say, G1 and Beast Machines, or Beast Wars and Armada, or Cybertron and Titanium. What makes thsoe three stand out more than any other toyline trio?

Plus, toys like the ROTF Bludgeon mold weren't designed by Paramount, so those kinds of movieverse toys were given aesthetic treatment similar to/closer to those of the Classics-style toys, only while still trying to remain within the Movie aesthetic enough to keep them under that classification (unlike the Movie 1 straight up Cybertron/Classics redecos that Walmart and TRU got).

And there's the fact that the Prime FE toys were designed with the Generations toyline in mind, making them able to evoke that aesthetic while still physically resembling the cartoon's CG models.

You're simply not going to get the answer you want because, outside of GDO, the era of the Movieverse molds died right after DOTM, which is when the Prime RID toyline came into being. That is why I gave examples from other past toylines since they're all we have to work with to fit the criteria of one toyline mixing molds from different previous lines of differing aesthetics.

Sabrblade wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:You didn't answer my question, you gave examples of other mixed toy lines, i asked for ROTF, P.R.I.D/1st edition, and Classics all together in two other lines, beside GDO. Again my basic point is still that of repetitive use

Why do those specific ones matter any more than any other trio of lines? All three of those are no further apart from each other design-wise than, say, G1 and Beast Machines, or Beast Wars and Armada, or Cybertron and Titanium. What makes thsoe three stand out more than any other toyline trio?

Plus, toys like the ROTF Bludgeon mold weren't designed by Paramount, so those kinds of movieverse toys were given aesthetic treatment similar to/closer to those of the Classics-style toys, only while still trying to remain within the Movie aesthetic enough to keep them under that classification (unlike the Movie 1 straight up Cybertron/Classics redecos that Walmart and TRU got).

And there's the fact that the Prime FE toys were designed with the Generations toyline in mind, making them able to evoke that aesthetic while still physically resembling the cartoon's CG models.

You're simply not going to get the answer you want because, outside of GDO, the era of the Movieverse molds died right after DOTM, which is when the Prime RID toyline came into being. That is why I gave examples from other past toylines since they're all we have to work with to fit the criteria of one toyline mixing molds from different previous lines of differing aesthetics.

There it is, you've finally given the answer i wanted. There are no other instances were movie, classics and prime were together. The reason why these three lines are important is because these are what funpubs using. Although mismatched, the reason why g2 flipjets and g1 figures work together is minus the aesthetic value, they have been paired together on multiple occasions, beast wars II, universe 2003, robots in disguise, robot masters, and machine wars. Although odd together initially, their continued use together makes it comparatively more normal for them to be paired. The use of movie, classics, and prime have only occured during this botcon set an gdo, making it jarring for them to be together. If all three shared a line of resuse multiple times, it be somehat smoother, however they haven't, and all three have very different aesthetic values, barring some exceptions like bludgeon, who was initially created as part of classics universe.

Regardless of whatever precedents have been set before, Prime figures are too aesthetically different to be part of a CHUG set. Fun Pub have reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of what they have to work with, and boy, does it show. IMO of course.

Yeah, I think you hit on something... FunPub has to choose from a "small" pool of available toys. Some Hasbro/Takara deem off limits (characters about to hit the shelves), some are copyright issues (movie toys), some molds degraded, some lost or destroyed forever...

Given these circumstances, they have to choose molds that are good fits, and look good together... which obviously works better some years than others. BUT we do have to acknowledge they have their hands and one foot tied behind their back, so hats of for trying hard each year.

That said, these fit together better than I THOUGHT they would when they mentioned the chosen toys from three lines. Honestly, I think if a 3rd party head surfaces for the big guy, the TF Prime mold choice will probably bother me LEAST.

The movie bots clearly match less (and my lest favorite mold choices), but I think the unified color scheme helps them fit okay in the lineup. (and it helps that no dog-leg bots were used in the making of this production. Cripes, I hated that look through the movie. Starscream always looked like a top-heavy giant triangle with dog legs attached... and a waspinator head for good measure.)

Before passing final judgement, I realize we've only seen 1/3 of the convention bots. A lot can happen from here. Lots of reveals to come. I'll withhold judgement on the set till I see the rest. They may counterbalance the couple of odd-men-out.

I don't get too excited or angry about these sets anymore. I go every year and choose what I want to keep and sell the rest. It's that simple.

You're a brave soul, Delicon! It's tough to break up a collector's set! Given, if you don't get the box, it probably lessens the blow.

What are you planning to keep sell this year?? (And what sticks out from what you've sold (or just HAD to keep) in previous years?) Curious what kind of criteria you have.

I'm really digging MW Starscream's paint job. Now all he needs is a cape and a little Galvatron cannon. lol...



Also got the same assembly flaw in my Hoist as Vangelus found in 4 others. And based on the promo shot in the first post I think its going to be in all of them. Doh..!