Exclusive In Hand Images of Transformers: The Last Knight Voyager Scorn and Nitro

Ironhidensh wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Bumblebee21 wrote:When is wave 2 deluxes coming to the us

You cant buy them all on HTS?

Not Hot Rod.

Hot Rod is exclusive to Walmart. Every single toy of him.

Yes, but it was my understanding that he would be part of wave two?

As in, released around the same time? Possibly. Given his exclusive nature he may be shipped in solid cases, depending on whether he's considered a standalone item or part of the standard assortments. Brainstorm was exclusive to Walgreens, yet officially he's part of the standard Deluxe Class assortment, and same thing may happen to all of Hot Rod's toys.

Fellow Seibertronian MadProject has sent us a new image from Weibo user NOTRAB, showing off the pre-existing mold and its reuse in Transformers: The Last Knight's toyline for the Decepticon / Predacon combiner: Infernocus! Shown off next to Abominus, check out the size difference of the new torso figure, and the new black and orange deco - below!

Ironhidensh wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Bumblebee21 wrote:When is wave 2 deluxes coming to the us

You cant buy them all on HTS?

Not Hot Rod.

Hot Rod is exclusive to Walmart. Every single toy of him.

Yes, but it was my understanding that he would be part of wave two?

He isnt part of wave 2. Wave 2 only has 4 deluxes. Walmart is apart from all those and not considered part of the mainline, which is what the waves are based on.

oh my god! now, that is impressive!

Damn, a commander sized torso! Everything people complained about the orginal fixed in one mold!

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Bumblebee21 wrote:When is wave 2 deluxes coming to the us

You cant buy them all on HTS?

Not Hot Rod.

Hot Rod is exclusive to Walmart. Every single toy of him.

Yes, but it was my understanding that he would be part of wave two?

He isnt part of wave 2. Wave 2 only has 4 deluxes. Walmart is apart from all those and not considered part of the mainline, which is what the waves are based on.

Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

Ironhidensh wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Bumblebee21 wrote:When is wave 2 deluxes coming to the us

You cant buy them all on HTS?

Not Hot Rod.

Hot Rod is exclusive to Walmart. Every single toy of him.

Yes, but it was my understanding that he would be part of wave two?

He isnt part of wave 2. Wave 2 only has 4 deluxes. Walmart is apart from all those and not considered part of the mainline, which is what the waves are based on.

Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

No schedule yet. All we know is that some people have acquired him from Walmarts, but Walmart is notorious for slow releases.

Va'al wrote:Fellow Seibertronian MadProject has sent us a new image from Weibo user NOTRAB, showing off the pre-existing mold and its reuse in Transformers: The Last Knight's toyline for the Decepticon / Predacon combiner: Infernocus! Shown off next to Abominus, check out the size difference of the new torso figure, and the new black and orange deco - below!

HOLY MOTHER!

I wasn't expecting THIS much of a difference!
Abobinus is now promoted from "want" to "must have"!

Ironhidensh wrote:Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

Not in the least.
Since he is an exclusive, there is no estimated time. Its like Brainstorm at Wallgreens. He just popped up one day and took his time getting to everyone. If its any indication to go by, for AOE, the walmart exclusive figures came out in august, so that might be when Hot Rod is easier to find.

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

Not in the least.
Since he is an exclusive, there is no estimated time. Its like Brainstorm at Wallgreens. He just popped up one day and took his time getting to everyone. If its any indication to go by, for AOE, the walmart exclusive figures came out in august, so that might be when Hot Rod is easier to find.

Also worth pointing out he's only an exclusive to the US - some Asian retail has seen him show up in TRU and the such (Hong Kong for sure, probably also Singapore).

Va'al wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

Not in the least.
Since he is an exclusive, there is no estimated time. Its like Brainstorm at Wallgreens. He just popped up one day and took his time getting to everyone. If its any indication to go by, for AOE, the walmart exclusive figures came out in august, so that might be when Hot Rod is easier to find.

Also worth pointing out he's only an exclusive to the US - some Asian retail has seen him show up in TRU and the such (Hong Kong for sure, probably also Singapore).

Is he in autobots unite (Walmart) or generic premium edition packaging?

Terrsolpix wrote:

Va'al wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

Not in the least.
Since he is an exclusive, there is no estimated time. Its like Brainstorm at Wallgreens. He just popped up one day and took his time getting to everyone. If its any indication to go by, for AOE, the walmart exclusive figures came out in august, so that might be when Hot Rod is easier to find.

Also worth pointing out he's only an exclusive to the US - some Asian retail has seen him show up in TRU and the such (Hong Kong for sure, probably also Singapore).

Is he in autobots unite (Walmart) or generic premium edition packaging?

Same box in Philippines!
https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ght/38581/

Terrsolpix wrote:

Va'al wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Damn. So do we have any clue as to his release timeframe? Other than the 3 I already have, Hot Rod is the only TLK figure I am interested in.

Forgive me if this is an old question, I haven't paid much attention to TLK news.

Not in the least.
Since he is an exclusive, there is no estimated time. Its like Brainstorm at Wallgreens. He just popped up one day and took his time getting to everyone. If its any indication to go by, for AOE, the walmart exclusive figures came out in august, so that might be when Hot Rod is easier to find.

Also worth pointing out he's only an exclusive to the US - some Asian retail has seen him show up in TRU and the such (Hong Kong for sure, probably also Singapore).

Is he in autobots unite (Walmart) or generic premium edition packaging?

Autobot Unite https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ges/38398/

Also, just to clear up some confusion, he (and the rest of the autobot unite subline) is still exclusive outside the US, but not necessarily exclusive to Walmart.

I know some people had the first impression that Infernicus might have upscaled parts, like the wings, but I dont think thats the case.
The wing on one is fully deployed while the other is folded, so thats why it looks bigger. Plus they are coloured differently, adding to the illusion. But we can tell that the feet are the exact same, so it would be odd if just one part of him was upscaled and not the others. Looking at it again, I am pretty sure there is no upscaling here.

Found TLK tiny turbo changers squeaks. Looks like he wasn't dropped after all. I'll send pics once I'm out of line, all self checkout are broken BTW he feels heavy, I think he has his trailer.

Sweet mother of mercy! Infernocus must be Ultra or even Leader class-sized with how much extra height he has over the already-Deluxe-sized Abominus!

It's the exact same toy, for each of the single toys that are exactly the same Predacons in a new deco - plus a new, bigger sized torso figure. Which means yes, it's bigger, but not upsized or upscaled in any way!

Just look at the leg bots, easier to compare by proximity:

Ferny needs to be taller than prime

Bumblebee21 wrote:Ferny needs to be taller than prime

He looks to be as tall. Best casonario the photography is trickig our eyes.

Va'al wrote:It's the exact same toy, for each of the single toys that are exactly the same Predacons in a new deco - plus a new, bigger sized torso figure. Which means yes, it's bigger, but not upsized or upscaled in any way!

Just look at the leg bots, easier to compare by proximity:

That torso make ALL the difference.
Jeez, it's something a 3p company usually do but THIS time, were quicker.

Terrsolpix wrote:Found TLK tiny turbo changers squeaks. Looks like he wasn't dropped after all. I'll send pics once I'm out of line, all self checkout are broken BTW he feels heavy, I think he has his trailer.

Thats excellent news. Please take pictures so we can news them as well as pics of the packaging in the back to show us what his code letter is.

We had official images of Tiny Turbo Steelbane but they did not show his alt mode, the dragon. Now, thanks to Griffin from Ozformers, who picked up this 3 pack, we now have an image of him and accompanying Optimus Prime and Bumblebee in their alt modes. You can also see how the clear weapons are out of the box and where the hidden messages are found in alt mode.
Griffin also posted another image of all of series 2, minus Sqweeks, in both modes, which is also included below. Ejoy!

Got the bags open, some interesting stuff is in them! Shockwave is a much lighter shade of purple and his gun in silver instead of his cannon, megaton is a 2 tone grey, and squeaks is a fuller shade of baby blue. Bad news: squeaks' bag got mangled while feeling and his code is either P or B, but if it's the latter he shares a code with megatron. Now the codes,!Megtron: B Shockwave: D Squeaks: P (most likely) Cogman: A. I didn't have enough money on me to get all of them, but I got what I could and was also on a bit of a hurry and couldn't check all of them for codes.

"P"? Seems to be pretty odd, as the letters went only to "L" in the first wave. Isn't it "F"?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:"P"? Seems to be pretty odd, as the letters went only to "L" in the first wave. Isn't it "F"?

The bag got mangled while I tried to get him to the window. It may be, but I'm not sure. Probably is now that I think about it.

Ewww...bot shots all over again.

Yup. I knew the previous picture showing deluxe Scorn as big as the voyager in dino mode was only due to stupid forced perspective. Now here we see that the voyager is almost twice as massive.

May be worth picking up after all. V Scorn with be the big brother!

Va'al wrote:It's the exact same toy, for each of the single toys that are exactly the same Predacons in a new deco - plus a new, bigger sized torso figure. Which means yes, it's bigger, but not upsized or upscaled in any way!

Just look at the leg bots, easier to compare by proximity:

Amazing what a new torso can do.

The Primus redeco showed up here in my country for roughly $250, no sign of hte other exclusives yet.

I am so in Love with this, I really hope Hasbro continues to make these figures, if only they can see how popular they've become. I would love to see more waves, more three packs or four packs (Dinobot) but I would love if they made a storage box for these, perhaps Lockdown's ship could be one, it isnt't hard really to make just have a spaceship mould with a storage compartment inside. I'm currently making a prototype one from card and my 3d pen, I'm also doing customs on my figures. I'm making Daytrader from Hound's figure, Galvatron from Optimus'figure and stinger using Bumblebee's figure (if people have any other ideas on what to make, please just tell me)
I would love to see the Dinobots (Grimlock, Strafe, Scorn and Slug) in a pack or a playset. Imagine how fun they would be, I'm currently using my bigger dinobot figures until there are more dinobots made.

Come on Hasbro, bring us more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tiny Steelbane kinda reminds me of Kickback for some reason. The wing placement in robot mode and the beast mode looks slightly grasshopper-ish. It's neat.
I still would like Tiny Turbos of Slug and Strafe to go with Grimlock to represent the mini-dinobots in some kinda scale with the regula TLK figures (is there a proper term for the proper figures, like.. AoE's toyline there were referred to as Generations? Do we still use that?).

Carnivius_Prime wrote:Tiny Steelbane kinda reminds me of Kickback for some reason. The wing placement in robot mode and the beast mode looks slightly grasshopper-ish. It's neat.
I still would like Tiny Turbos of Slug and Strafe to go with Grimlock to represent the mini-dinobots in some kinda scale with the regula TLK figures (is there a proper term for the proper figures, like.. AoE's toyline there were referred to as Generations? Do we still use that?).

The term for those regular figures in this line is Premier Edition. It replaces the Generations name they used in AOE to tryto be less confusing. That clearly failed since everyone was (and some are still) confused with the use of Premier Edition for an entire line.

william-james88 wrote:

Carnivius_Prime wrote:Tiny Steelbane kinda reminds me of Kickback for some reason. The wing placement in robot mode and the beast mode looks slightly grasshopper-ish. It's neat.
I still would like Tiny Turbos of Slug and Strafe to go with Grimlock to represent the mini-dinobots in some kinda scale with the regula TLK figures (is there a proper term for the proper figures, like.. AoE's toyline there were referred to as Generations? Do we still use that?).

The term for those regular figures in this line is Premier Edition. It replaces the Generations name they used in AOE to tryto be less confusing. That clearly failed since everyone was (and some are still) confused with the use of Premier Edition for an entire line.

Ah yeah i guess that makes sense. I completely forgot about that 'premier edition' despite it being there on the boxes and having bought a TLK figure as recently as Saturday afternoon.

The most recent wave of The Last Knight One Step Changers have taken Australia! Seibertronian Prime Target has sent us some images of One Step Megatron, Grimlock, and Berserker on Australian shelves! We expect more info to come in soon about what store these were seen at and how much they were going for so Check back for that later! Check out the sighting below and let Seibertron.com know if you've seen new products anywhere around the world!

If they haven't been in Canada yet I saw these one step guys here in Alberta at Walmart about a week ago.

Was going to pick up Berserker but I put him back so I can save up for other things.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

Stickers and decals are the same thing? I don't think either line had those.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and blue paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

bacem wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

ok, you lost me there. As far as i know, both aoe and dotm has paints, no stickers or decals.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and blue paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

jasonarnold wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

Stickers and decals are the same thing? I don't think either line had those.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and blue paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

Waterslide style or temporary tattoo style?

Deadput wrote:If they haven't been in Canada yet I saw these one step guys here in Alberta at Walmart about a week ago.

Was going to pick up Berserker but I put him back so I can save up for other things.

They have been found in Canada for at least one month. But thanks for letting us know.

Terrsolpix wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

Stickers and decals are the same thing? I don't think either line had those.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and bluee paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

Waterslide style or temporary tattoo style?

Waterslide. Super annoying.

jasonarnold wrote:

Terrsolpix wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

Stickers and decals are the same thing? I don't think either line had those.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and bluee paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

Waterslide style or temporary tattoo style?

Waterslide. Super annoying.

I think you're confusing a few lines here. At the time, the only line that had stickers with its figures was Generations proper, not Age of Extinction. Care to tell what figures had stickers or decals?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:

Terrsolpix wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

Stickers and decals are the same thing? I don't think either line had those.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and bluee paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

Waterslide style or temporary tattoo style?

Waterslide. Super annoying.

I think you're confusing a few lines here. At the time, the only line that had stickers with its figures was Generations proper, not Age of Extinction. Care to tell what figures had stickers or decals?

The dual model kits. My original post Was in response to the new model kit for TLK.

...

jasonarnold wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:

Terrsolpix wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

jasonarnold wrote:Dotm had stickers and AOE had those crazy decals. Please go back to stickers. Decals were horrible.

Stickers and decals are the same thing? I don't think either line had those.

I have both dotm and aoe. They come with just red and bluee paint. Dotm has actual stickers you apply like the flames, etc. Aoe had those decals where you need to put them in water to make them sticky.

Waterslide style or temporary tattoo style?

Waterslide. Super annoying.

I think you're confusing a few lines here. At the time, the only line that had stickers with its figures was Generations proper, not Age of Extinction. Care to tell what figures had stickers or decals?

The dual model kits. My original post Was in response to the new model kit for TLK.

Ah, that explains a lot. The DMK's aren't really part of the standard line with the Deluxes, Voyagers, One-Step Changers and whatnot, plus they're by TakaraTomy, not Hasbro.

The thread for TakaraTomy products is here:

Takara Tomy Transformers The Last Knight TLK Toyline Discussion

And for non-toy products:

Transformers: The Last Knight Non-Toy Products Discussion Thread

There was a bit of worry that Sqweeks wouldn't be found in Series 2 of Transformers: The Last Knight Tiny Turbo Changers since he was missing from the cases found in Hong Kong. We have great news from fellow Seibertronian Terrsolpix. Not only did he find Sqweeks but he also found him in the USA. To be more specific, he found the series 2 blind bags at a target in San Jose, California. He says they only had 1 squeeks out of 20-25 blind bags.

Here is more that Terrsoplix had to say:

Got the bags open, some interesting stuff is in them! Shockwave is a much lighter shade of purple and his gun in silver instead of his cannon, megaton is a 2 tone grey, and sqweeaks is a fuller shade of baby blue. Bad news: squeaks' bag got mangled while feeling and his code is either F or B, but if it's the latter he shares a code with megatron. Now the codes,!
Megtron: B Shockwave: D Squeaks: F (most likely) Cogman: A. I didn't have enough money on me to get all of them, but I got what I could and was also on a bit of a hurry and couldn't check all of them for codes.

william-james88 wrote:

Heh. Love that there's a Titan Master riding Sqweeks.

Thanks! I also would like to mention some things I noticed last night after my report, megatron's wings are not parrarel to the balljoint, nor the tabslot, meaning the arms can't tan in securely. Cogman transforms identically to lockdown, but lacks the click in the torso extension. Squeaks also has asymmetrical wheels, I had them backward in the photo I took. also I said shockwave's gun was silver and not his cannon...... I was tired, give me a break

The folks over at TFW2005.com have posted an interesting update to the upcoming releases of the Transformers Robots In Disguise, Rescue Bots, and most importantly, The Last Knight toy lines.
The following list is a breakdown of the contents of cases shipping in july, and while we see anticipated figures like the new Wave 3 Deluxe Bumblebee and Voyager Nitro, as well as the first appearance of the Allspark Tech figures, we're missing Deluxe Cogman. His exclusion is strange, but it could simply be explained away by him shipping out at a later date. Here's the complete list, slightly abridged by TFW for a more understandable read.

4x Target Exclusive TRA RYS Turbo Changer TF5 Figure 6pk Collection (TGT) 349069 (Optimus, Bee, Barricade, Hound, grimlock, megatron set)

4x Walmart Exclusive TRA AU 1 STEP TURBO CHANGER 2PK (Bee & Hotrod set)

2x Walmart Exlcusive TRA AU FLIP AND CHANGE BUMBLEBEE

2x Walmart Exclusive TRA AU FLIP N CHANGE SATURN RINGS (Hot Rod)

TRA MV5 1 STEP TURBO CHANGERS AST W3 17 (bee, drift, scorn, cogman)
2x TRA MV5 1 STEP ZODIAC
2x TRA MV5 1 STEP SUN
2x TRA MV5 1 STEP NOVA
2x TRA MV5 1 STEP TURBO CHANGER BUMBLEBEE

TRA MV5 ALL SPARK TECH FIGURE AST W1 17
2x TRA MV5 ALLSPARK TECH BUMBLEBEE
1x TRA MV5 ALLSPARK TECH AUTOBOT HOUND
1x TRA MV5 ALLSPARK BARRICADE
2x TRA MV5 ALLSPARK AUTOBOT DRIFT

TRA MV5 ALL SPARK TECH STARTER PACK AST
2x TRA MV5 ALLSPARK TECH STARTER OPT PRIME
2x TRA MV5 ALLSPARK STARTER SHDW SPARK OP

TRA MV5 VOICECHANGER MASK AST
1x TRA MV5 BUMBLEBEE VOICE CHANGER MASK
1x TRA MV5 MEGATRON VOICE CHANGER MASK

TRA MV5 VOICECHANGER MASK AST W2 17
1x TRA MV5 BUMBLEBEE VOICE CHANGER MASK
1x TRA MV5 VOICECHANGER MASK AUTO SQWEEKS

Solid case 2x TRA MV5 PRE VOYAGER GAMMA BEAM GREY (Nitro)

TRA MV5 LEGION AST W3 17
2x TRA MV5 LEGION BARRICADE
2x TRA MV5 LEGION OPTIMUS PRIME
2x TRA MV5 LEGION EXTRA TERRESTRIAL (Dragonstorm)
2x TRA MV5 LEGION SUPER NOVA (Hound)

TRA MV5 PREMIER DELUXE AST W3 17
2x TRA MV5 PRE DLX AUTOBOT DRIFT
2x TRA MV5 PREMIER DLX CROSSHAIRS
2x TRA MV5 PREMIER DLX BUMBLEBEE (new bee)
2x TRA MV5 PREMIER DLX STRAFE

TRA MV5 PREMIER VOYAGER AST W3 17
1x TRA MV5 PREMIER VOYAGER DECEPTICON NITRO
1x TRA MV5 PREMIER VOYAGER SCORN

TRA MV5 PREMIER LEADER AST W2 17
1x TRA MV5 PREMIER LEADER MEGATRON
1x TRA MV5 PRE LEADER EXTRA TERRESTRIAL (Dragonstorm)

2x TRA MV5 MEGA 1 STEP TURBO CHANGER (Dragonstorm)

TRA RBT FLIPRACER SINGLES AST WV2 17
2x TRA RBT OPTIMUS PRIME
2x TRA RBT CHASE THE POLICE BOT
2x TRA RBT BLURR
2x TRA RBT SIDESWIPE

4x TRA RID HYPER CHANGE OPTIMUS PRIME

TRA RID TEAM COMBINERS AST W1 17
2x TRA RID TEAM COMBINER MENASOR
2x TRA RID TEAM COMBINER ULTRA BEE

TRA RID TEAM COMBINERS AST W2 17
2x TRA RID TEAM COMBINER ULTRA BEE
2x TRA RID TEAM COMBINER GALVATRONUS

Carnivius_Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Heh. Love that there's a Titan Master riding Sqweeks.

It's a pretty good fit, pretty sure it wasn't a coincidence.
EDIT: I had one next to me since I emptied out my TM storage minibox which I have dubbed "fort kickass", then, nightbeat fell off of his vehicle and contrasted nicely and looked pretty spiffy on his new ride

So as far as that release list, maybe I missed it but I don't see the Walmart Deluxe or Legion Hot Rod. Are those still waiting to be released or do we even have any idea?