IDW Publishing going back to the very beginning?

Wow. An origin story of the Original 13. That'll be impressive.

I wonder how it will affect other stories like the Japanese Continuity, or the one about the Quintessons being the creators of the TFs.

sounds cool can't wait for it

oooh, this sounds very cool. I'd love to see the original 13 fleshed out

Seems that IDW have got the right idea when it comes to timelines and testing the water first.

They have now had the license for just over two years and, after a good pubic reaction to their work (except Megatron origins) have decided to publish their take on the original 13.

Consider how many books Dreamwave had thrown at us by June 2004 (about the same length of time they had been running with TF) We got book after book of stuff, could barely keep up, and yes while it was good to be having so much TF material again, quality was sometimes lacking and they ended up burning out very quickly.

I for one am very excited now given how the whole "ion" title has been handled, an origins story won't detract too much from what we know about the TF but on the other hand nothing we know is truly set in stone with the IDWverse.

I feel it will be one of those stories much like UK:150 that gets referrenced for years to come and becomes a large part of the TF mythos.

Thats just my take on the upcoming story, does anyone have any timelines of release so i can see if i was right???

This can either be realy realy good, or turn out realy realy bad!

On that note, I hope to hope for the best!

Can't wait for this, hopefully we'll learn The Fallen's real name in this

origins megs was pretty sweet. now seeing the original 13 will be very cool.

I'm excited to hear this news! I hope that IDW continues with their winning Transformers series. There really has not been a bum title in the bunch, well Hearts of Steel was pretty bad, but an interesting attempt to add an Elseworlds or What If type title to the brand. Besides, it did introduce us to some really cool designs!

please be THE original 13

Ninja Sixshot wrote:please be THE original 13

With the way IDW has used information and ideas that came from Marvel and DW I think this could be THE original 13 or darned close to it.

I'll gladly pick up this series. I am loving what IDW has done with TF thus far so it's nice to see them show us what happened in the beginning.


-Aerrow

Ninja Sixshot wrote:please be THE original 13

I doubt it will be the 13 as we know them...with no Unicron i doubt very much to see a Primus being thrown in the mix but hey I'm just speculating on established comments and would like to be proved wrong

Are the Original 13 the Covenant of Primus plus The Fallen?

I am anxious to see how this plays out. From what I have seen, IDW has put out some nice TF comics this past year.

Oh man. More of Furman's crap. Origin, blah! He's probably gonna mix religion and TF's again. People are already talking about the "original 13". Junk. All of it.

i_like_starscream wrote:Are the Original 13 the Covenant of Primus plus The Fallen?

Fallen was a member of the original 13, The Fallen is the name the remaining (surviving) members of the 13 gave to him when he switched sides.

i_amtrunks wrote:

i_like_starscream wrote:Are the Original 13 the Covenant of Primus plus The Fallen?

Fallen was a member of the original 13, The Fallen is the name the remaining (surviving) members of the 13 gave to him when he switched sides.

So what about the Covenant of Primus? Are they the 13?

i_like_starscream wrote:So what about the Covenant of Primus? Are they the 13?

Well the Covenant of Primus is more like a TF Bible/sacred text while The Covenant being only 12 members, and none named Prima nor Primon, seems incapable of being the original 13 TFs.

So to answer your question... No they are not the original 13.

I just hope this origin story doesn't try to amalgamate every last concept of the 13 as a master retcon. I'm thinking some bits just don't knit well together...

Here's to A-3 not being among there number... although i could see options for him.

AxiomScion wrote:

i_like_starscream wrote:So what about the Covenant of Primus? Are they the 13?

Well the Covenant of Primus is more like a TF Bible/sacred text while The Covenant being only 12 members, and none named Prima nor Primon, seems incapable of being the original 13 TFs.

So to answer your question... No they are not the original 13.

I just hope this origin story doesn't try to amalgamate every last concept of the 13 as a master retcon. I'm thinking some bits just don't knit well together...

Here's to A-3 not being among there number... although i could see options for him.

AxiomScion,

One TFan website referred to The Covenant as the "Covenant of Primus" when it summarized Reaching the Omega Point. But you're right about the distinction. I can't believe I forgot about the last episode of Beast Wars which referred the TF's bible.

Perhaps the Original 13 are The Covenant plus Prima/Primon?

If the Original 13 are The Covenant + Prima/Primon, I don't see how A-3 can be 1 of them. If I'm not mistaken, the members of The Covenant correlate w/ the signs of the zodiac.

Re: master retcon, since Furman is also the author of RTOP, I wouldn't put it past him to create a master retcon.

Here are some options i see.

1. As the covenant were not built on cybertron (as they predate the planet) for those 12 to be the 13 they would need another member. Even still the original 13 were fabled to have been made by Primus and on cybertron. In this regard they can be mentioned but shouldn't quite be the 13 we are looking for. Perhaps Primon could be there added member and first to ever hold the matrix.

2. The possible members of the original 13 could be the namesakes of the major city states of old cybertron save for there matrix bear Prima 1st built by Primus on cybertron. I'm undecided on the last autobot's role as the last (13th?) built by Primus on Cybertron.

3. Having been the 1st mech successfully built by Vector Sigma (the CPU of Cybertron), Alpha Trion stands to retroactively be Prima or Alpha Prime much in the way Prime Nova (Prima's marvel G1 successor) could be taken as IDWs Nova Prime. (as both are succeeded by Sentinel Prime)

If A-3 was among the the original 13, then all mechs built by Vector Sigma are retroactively built by Primus. I personally like to think of him as the 1st following the original 13's creation; When Primus, as a whole entity, was dormant and not directly involved.

4. I'm thinking Furman is bringing together most (if not all) of his concepts from previous TF writings so linking The covenant with The 13 is plausible, I just doubt they are one in the same.

If Furman's G2 meiosis spark breeding concept is involved... there becomes an even more complicated history... but that has nothing to do with the original 13 does it...

If this site is accurate, The Covenant ARE 12 of the 13:

http://www.answers.com/topic/covenant-of-primus

"A second Covenant of Primus exists, but rather than being a record it is an organization. According to the Botcon comics, the Covenant were the first 12 Transformers created by Primus. ... The Covenant were also created as a test by Primus, to assure that he would be able to manipulate the planetoid he was to become imprisoned in, and also as prototypes of the first Transformer race."

Re: Prima & Primon, it looks like Furman is retconning himself:

http://www.answers.com/topic/prima-transformers

"Prima is said by numerous sources, including Simon Furman's The Ultimate Guide, to have been the first of Primus's creations. Also the first to carry the Autobot Matrix of Leadership, that which is connected to the life essence of Primus himself."

http://www.answers.com/topic/primon

"The BotCon 1999 story states a being named Primon as the first to hold the Matrix, and Prima the second. ... He is believed by some to have been the very first Cybertronian, before even Prima and was the first wielder of the Matrix, starting the long line of Primes.

"While the story was penned by Simon Furman, it was never mentioned again in any other source."

you've done some research there

I guess that would leave the last autobot or Prima as the missing member... and Liege Maximo might be left out with Primon and the bath water.

Or depending on the religious similarities Primon could return as the last autobot...

just a thought.

I kinda wanted to see more liege maximo and the fallen (pre-fall) though...

AxiomScion wrote:I guess that would leave the last autobot or Prima as the missing member... and Liege Maximo might be left out with Primon and the bath water.

Or depending on the religious similarities Primon could return as the last autobot...

just a thought.

I kinda wanted to see more liege maximo and the fallen (pre-fall) though...

My head hurts thinking about it.

I guess the easy way to clear up who is/isn't in the 13 would be to say that they go by other aliases. Since Sandstorm was Scorpius, there's precedent there.

Furman doesn't have any excuses for the ambiguities since he was the one who created them.

i_like_starscream wrote:I guess the easy way to clear up who is/isn't in the 13 would be to say that they go by other aliases. Since Sandstorm was Scorpius, there's precedent there.

Furman doesn't have any excuses for the ambiguities since he was the one who created them.

However he works out the relation of the covenant 12 with the original 13, be it aliases or different members, so long as the story is good It'll be just... prime with me.

I'm really hoping Furman had a really good Primon idea that he wanted to use so that Liege Maximo could be a part of the IDW lore.

If he does that i could even live with the A-3 w/ matrix = Alpha Prime = Prima = Alpha Trion which is disturbingly sounding better to me each time i post it... so long as that prevents him from being among the original 13

wht comic is this from? cause its startin to sound reli interesting as i havent bothered with ne of the comics

cheers

Electron wrote:what comic is this from? cause its starting to sound really interesting as i haven't bothered with any of the comics

cheers

IDW, the comic company with the current TF license, is planning a 13 origins story. 1st post has more details.

skyshadowprimus wrote:

Ninja Sixshot wrote:please be THE original 13

I doubt it will be the 13 as we know them...with no Unicron i doubt very much to see a Primus being thrown in the mix but hey I'm just speculating on established comments and would like to be proved wrong.

I hope you're wrong too

I don't know if an IDW only story that relates only to the IDW stories could count as a "Master Retcon". My guess is that it will be yet another origins story that is only any good in referring to the IDW Furman-verse, and will have no bearing on Marvel, Sunbow, Mainframe, DW or Fun Publications stories.

Badass, but they could seriously fuck this up by having Primacron or the Quints as the TF's creators. VERY much hoping they have Primus and Unicron involved, or my head will explode.

AxiomScion wrote:I kinda wanted to see more liege maximo and the fallen (pre-fall) though...

Wouldn't it make some kind of sense if "The Fallen" IS Liege Maximo, though? That's how I like to think it at least...