In Hand Images of Power of the Primes Cindersaur, Inferno and Outback from Australia Toy Fair

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Here's CW Cyclonus, the 'Hun-Grr' configuration. All that's really missing are the heads attached to the feet and the swiveling forelegs added to the robot 'hips'. Looks like Silverbolt to me...

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Yes. He shares engineering with Silverbolt, certainly. But shared engineering =/= retool. Retool = sharing some of the actual toolings. And from the looks of it, Hun-Grr uses a brand-new set of molds.

If you start equating designed from scratch with made from scratch and calling figures retools just because of shared engineering, then by that logic Robot Masters BW Megatron for example is a retool of the Ultra-class BW Megatron. Or Legends-class Leobreaker is a retool of the Voyager-class one. Or certain CHUG figures are "retools" of the G1 toys. Which is a ridiculous notion, yet as far as I can make out that's your logic.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote: Which is a ridiculous notion, yet as far as I can make out that's your logic.

It is not my logic, it is the only definition we have on the matter:

A Retool is a toy that has been created by modifying an existing mold to give it new features. This enables companies to create new toys without producing an entirely new mold from scratch.

With computer aided drawings, the meaning of a mold has changed. Designers can go back to a technical drawing and change it. It is changing the mold digitally, which means it can most definitely still be seen as retooling elements.

Hasbro has just confirmed that this toy is not made from scratch, so it is not a fully new toy.

DeathReviews wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Here's CW Cyclonus, the 'Hun-Grr' configuration. All that's really missing are the heads attached to the feet and the swiveling forelegs added to the robot 'hips'. Looks like Silverbolt to me...

Anyone care to try that with a different toy altogether? Any figure with proper arm and leg articulation will do. Hell, Legends Scourge did just that

Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's

Whether or not it qualifies to be called a retool shouldn't really matter as long as both points are at least acknowledged.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's
.

I have always agreed with that. Though I do believe that he is based on the silver bolt mold. And Hasbro did confirm that at Toy fair, according to TFW.

There are design elements that match up simply perfectly, like the robot mode forearms, like they took the existing design and worked around it very closely.

Edit: the actual quote was "uses silver bolt tech", so basically what we've have been saying all along just finally confirmed.

william-james88 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's
.

I have always agreed with that. Though I do believe that he is based on the silver bolt mold. And Hasbro did confirm that at Toy fair, according to TFW.

There are design elements that match up simply perfectly, like the robot mode forearms, like they took the existing design and worked around it very closely.

I agree that Silverbolt's engineering was used as a starting point, that's all there is really, with all parts being new designs, but that remains a sticking point for most it seems. A lot of figures have taken cues or even exact engineering from other releases, Hun-Gurrr falls well within that group. I will freely admit that had he a good amount of part designs in common with Silverbolt, he'd have been bumped up to part sharing, among the likes of Blurr & Chromedome, or Slag & Sludge

Speaking of Hun-Gurrr:



Is that his Enigma and feet I spy with Inferno?

Why does this retool debate keep popping up? We all agree on the facts, it’s just what you want to call a retool, which really should be ‘to each his own’.

Anyone mind telling me where I’ve seen Inferno’s packaging art chestplate before? Is it MtMtE Grapple?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's
.

I have always agreed with that. Though I do believe that he is based on the silver bolt mold. And Hasbro did confirm that at Toy fair, according to TFW.

There are design elements that match up simply perfectly, like the robot mode forearms, like they took the existing design and worked around it very closely.

I agree that Silverbolt's engineering was used as a starting point, that's all there is really, with all parts being new designs, but that remains a sticking point for most it seems. A lot of figures have taken cues or even exact engineering from other releases, Hun-Gurrr falls well within that group. I will freely admit that had he a good amount of part designs in common with Silverbolt, he'd have been bumped up to part sharing, among the likes of Blurr & Chromedome, or Slag & Sludge

Speaking of Hun-Gurrr:



Is that his Enigma and feet I spy with Inferno?

Yeah, it looks like the same molds for "feet" Prime armor and the enigma (but not with pinkish colors!), no doubt. I finally transformed Hun-Gurrr -- he looks pretty cool. But so did the original....but as my first incarnation of the character, I'm happy.

MagicDeath wrote:Why does this retool debate keep popping up? We all agree on the facts, it’s just what you want to call a retool, which really should be ‘to each his own’.

AMEN!

Anyone mind telling me where I’ve seen Inferno’s packaging art chestplate before? Is it MtMtE Grapple?

While the toy itself is based on Hot Spot, the art is based on his retool Onslaught.

MagicDeath wrote:Why does this retool debate keep popping up? We all agree on the facts, it’s just what you want to call a retool, which really should be ‘to each his own’.

Anyone mind telling me where I’ve seen Inferno’s packaging art chestplate before? Is it MtMtE Grapple?

Because pointlessly arguing things and wasting your time is what fans do. Now allow me to waste my time to pointlessly lecture people about pointlessly arguing things!

I am too tired to look this up.....Firestar is the lone new Deluxe figure in Wave 4.....do we know who she's packed with?

Bounti76 wrote:I am too tired to look this up.....Firestar is the lone new Deluxe figure in Wave 4.....do we know who she's packed with?

It should be an even split with 2 of Nova/Firestar(who looks stuppid to me ), 2 of Darkwing, 2 of Slug, and 2 of Jazz per case

Bounti76 wrote:I am too tired to look this up.....Firestar is the lone new Deluxe figure in Wave 4.....do we know who she's packed with?

IIRC, Firestar, Blackwing, Slag/Slug and Rippersnapper.

AFTRHR wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:I am too tired to look this up.....Firestar is the lone new Deluxe figure in Wave 4.....do we know who she's packed with?

IIRC, Firestar, Blackwing, Slag/Slug and Rippersnapper.

You're right on that. My bad

Hotconvoy wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:I am too tired to look this up.....Firestar is the lone new Deluxe figure in Wave 4.....do we know who she's packed with?

It should be an even split with 2 of Nova/Firestar(who looks stuppid to me ), 2 of Darkwing, 2 of Slug, and 2 of Jazz per case

Jazz is in Wave 3, Wave 4 gets Rippersnapper instead.

AFTRHR wrote:

Hotconvoy wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:I am too tired to look this up.....Firestar is the lone new Deluxe figure in Wave 4.....do we know who she's packed with?

It should be an even split with 2 of Nova/Firestar(who looks stuppid to me ), 2 of Darkwing, 2 of Slug, and 2 of Jazz per case

Jazz is in Wave 3, Wave 4 gets Rippersnapper instead.

Thanks all! I do wonder if Moonracer will get a repack in Wave 3. She's only one a case in Wave 2, and that makes me worried she'll be vanishingly scarce.

It's the same with swoop, he's only in wave 1 (actually is dreadwind getting a repack? Seems odd that blackwing is without his partner)

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I agree that Silverbolt's engineering was used as a starting point, that's all there is really, with all parts being new designs, but that remains a sticking point for most it seems. A lot of figures have taken cues or even exact engineering from other releases, Hun-Gurrr falls well within that group. I will freely admit that had he a good amount of part designs in common with Silverbolt, he'd have been bumped up to part sharing, among the likes of Blurr & Chromedome, or Slag & Sludge

I think the reason its a sticking point is because these are Transformers toys and the technoloical aspect of the transformation is what seperates these toys from all other action figures. So to have that core aspect of a new toy based directly off of a toy that we have already seen a lot of can become quite a blow. The G1 toys for Scatershot, Silverbolt and Hun Gurrr are all completely unique from one another so to have all three share the same engineering 30 years later is a bit of a step back. Espcially with Hun Gurr bein released so much later. The puzzle aspect is an important one and its always more fun to get some surprises rather than to already know exactly how a certain mode will be achieved. I am not a fan of the POTP Leader Prime or Voyager Starscream but I did very much enjoy the transformation aspect of both (even though some results themselves were lacking).

Thats why it may be seen as a bigger offense than simply giving a toy the same knee/hand/hip/gun another already had. If the transformation aspect is still unique regardless of the shared part, I dont think it matters much.

Thats what i see.

I just want to say I appreciate the extra bit of brown paint on the arms/alt mode sides of Outback not found on the CGI render. Say what you want about the lack of original Takara Tomy decos, the Hasbro has really been stepping up their game with POTP. Hopefully if they really do drop stickers from WFC we'll end up with something somewhat more premium looking with the larger figures, too.

Emerje

Bummed that the Inferno paint scheme makes fudging him as a G2 Hot Spot a little more difficult. Still holding out a shred of hope for a legit box set.

As for the Dinobot box set, I'm praying it's G2. I'd buy that in a heartbeat to go with Superion, Bruticus & Menasor. I hope they follow through for us completionists out here.