Kurtzman and Orci give new LA Times interview for ROTF

Apparently LA Times hasn't learned of Soundwave's satellite altmode yet.

Those guys csn spew whatever the want in the media. Until I see the movie and see for myself that they didn't completely slaughter the Transformers story like they did in the first movie, these guys remain complete hacks in my opinion. They also wrote the new Star Trek, and if they destroy that, maybe the objections of their fans, who are a little more intense than Transfans, will finally bring some attention to the lack of talent between these 2 bums.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Those guys csn spew whatever the want in the media. Until I see the movie and see for myself that they didn't completely slaughter the Transformers story like they did in the first movie, these guys remain complete hacks in my opinion. They also wrote the new Star Trek, and if they destroy that, maybe the objections of their fans, who are a little more intense than Transfans, will finally bring some attention to the lack of talent between these 2 bums.

Well, the new 'Trek' is getting amazing reviews, actually. And if you break down Orci/Kurtzman vs. Bay on the rottentomatoes.com tomometer, then this is what you have: (feature films only)

MICHAEL BAY
Transformers 57%
The Island 40%
Bad Boys II 23%
Pearl Harbor 25%
Armageddon 40%
The Rock 66%
Bad Boys 42%
__________________________
average = 42%

ALEX KURTZMAN / ROBERTO ORCI
Star Trek 100%
Transformers 57%
Mission Impossible III 70%
The Legend of Zorro 25%
The Island 40%
__________________________
average = 58%

Since for these purposes we can't determine who influences a project more (writers or director), we'll omit all projects that Kurtzamn, Orci, and Bay worked on together. Then we'll average their tomameter scores based on their outstanding bodies of work. This means that 'Transformers' and 'The Island' are stricken from both sides. The resulting averages should indicate which side, Kurtzman/Orci or Bay consistently produces better films according to reputable films critics and publications around the world:

Adjusted tomometer averages (minus 'Transformers' and 'The Island')

MICHAEL BAY
Bad Boys II 23%
Pearl Harbor 25%
Armageddon 40%
The Rock 66%
Bad Boys 42%
___________________________
average = 39%

ALEX KURTZMAN / ROBERTO ORCI
Star Trek 100%
Mission Impossible III 70%
The Legend of Zorro 25%
___________________________
average = 65%

Thus, once the mutual projects are eliminated, we can judge each side based on their outside film credits. According to this method, Bay has an average tomometer of 39% while Kurtzman/Orci have an average of 65%. Morover, Bay's highest rating is 66% for 'The Rock' while Kurtzman/Orci's best rating is 'Star Trek' at 100% (of course, that rating will come down once the film is in wide release, but based on the fact that 100% of the 18 advance reviews come from sources such as The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, and Emmanuel Levy, should the rating drop the amount will not be significant. I predict the score will not drop below 91%.)

Thus, the numbers indicate that Michael Bay is responsible for more critical failures than the Kurtzman/Orci team, and accordingly, blaming the failure of 'Transformers' to present a solid narrative structure is most likely the work of Michael Bay.

Hopefully Bay has come around to understand that the script DOES make a difference, and perhaps he put more faith in the writers for ROTF.

I hope so. I wanna see the sweet TF movie we've all been waiting for!

For the love of all things Cybertronian please do not let them concoct a half @$$ed story about Humans and Transformers having a shared origin ... or that they somehow entombed The Fallen in a pyramid

rwalsh17 wrote:
Thus, the numbers indicate that Michael Bay is responsible for more critical failures than the Kurtzman/Orci team, and accordingly, blaming the failure of 'Transformers' to present a solid narrative structure is most likely the work of Michael Bay.

That may be true, and trust me, I'm not defending Michael Bay, because his only movie that I truly LIKE is The Rock. The rest I have seen and tolerated till the end. But it is the writers who are responsible for incorporating source material (and in this case there is PLENTY of it, they sahouldn't have pulled a brand new story out of their ass like they did, that's my problem) and turning it into a streamlined smoothflowing story. Knowing Bay's reputation, I would say he has the final say on stuff, but still M:I 3 wasn't that good, the second Zorro movie was subpar to the 1st, and The Island, I thought was a good story, but it wasn't detailed enough. there needed to be more to tell.

Also, didn't they write Eagle Eye as well? That was actually a pretty good flick.

Bottom line, they're on my shitlist, and this is their only chance to redeem themselves. If this gets messed up, I'll wipe my ass with anything having to do with Orci and Kurtzman from now on.

Then again, I'm just some guy on a message board, WTF do they care...

Rodimus Prime wrote: Bottom line, they're on my shitlist, and this is their only chance to redeem themselves. If this gets messed up, I'll wipe my ass with anything having to do with Orci and Kurtzman from now on.

I understand that you're not defending Michael Bay, but what I'm saying is that you can't assume that Kurtzman and Orci DIDN'T incorporate source material to begin with -- they had a huge filter that altered how their material reached us the audience, and that filter was Michael Bay.

It's not very common for a Hollywood script to reach the audience exactly as the writer intended, usually there are all kinds of changes suggested by studio executives, producers, directors, and in the case of Transformers, property owners such as Hasbro. Even if the script for the Transformers movie 2007 was a full-on G1 translation all the way down to the robot paint schemes, something inevitably would've been lost along the way. I've worked on low budget projects where the final film contains only about 60% of the dialogue in the shooting script and the ending has been changed completely on set, something that the writers had nothing to do with.

Moreover, the script for Revenge of the Fallen was 'polished' by Bay while Kurtzman and Orci were unable to develop the script further due to the WGA strike, so he's had free reign to change whatever he wants. Therefore, many of the aspects you inevitably don't like about ROTF may well be attributed to Bay, not Kurtzman/Orci. Remember, Kurtzman/Orci grew up with Transformers like we did, and they want a kick-ass G1 faithful adaptation as much as the next Transfan, but Michael Bay's first inclination for the project was to turn it down 'cause he thought it was 'Just another stupid toy movie' (his words, not mine.) That was my motivation to point out his critical success vs. that of Kurtzman/Orci: he just makes crappy movies period, so any film he's involved with is gonna suffer from lack of character development and narrative structure no matter how good the script was. Thus, the reason I discarded The Island and Transformers when discussing Kurtzman/Orci's tomameter rating is because the rating for those two films have been corrupted by bay's influence, so Kurtzman/Orci can't shoulder all the blame.

Of course, you're entitled to your own opinion, but being a writer myself, I always hate it when I see writers shouldering the blame for things that are beyond their control.

At any rate, let's hope the movie is as goos as we all hope it is!

(p.s. They should care what a guy on a message board like you has to say, in recent years the power has been shifted from the studios to the fans, and the fans control the market now more than ever...)

You're probably right. I'm just really pissed off because I grew up with G1 and that's what I was expecting. No, I'm not a "purist" not everything had to be the same, but you gotta admit, the only thing the 2007 movie has in common with TF is the characters names, and not even all those match. So it just gets to me. But you're right, knowing Bay's hardon for too much bang and not a lot of story might be the reason. So I'll see Star Trek and then I might know. Though I'm not a Trekkie whatsoever.

Michael Bay. When I first heard he's directing the first movie, i was really happy. Because I knew there would be action galore. I just didn't realize that it would be at the cost of a true TF story. Ugh.

Yeah, the guy loves hot chicks, massive set pieces, and explosions, so you'd think that would translate into a great live-action TF film, right?

Well, the downside of Bay's 'awesomeness' as a director is that he has the emotional maturity of a 14 year-old, a trait that affects ALL aspects of the film -- not just the action scenes. So important story elements and emotional drama are also handled from a 14 year-old point of view, and that's where sophisticated viewers (like yourself) find Bay's films sorely lacking.

Look, the guy has a huge fascination with guns, fast cars, and boobs. As most guys can agree, the aforementioned qualities make for some great summer entertainment, but regardless, most audiences crave more. A solid story is a good place to start. Let's see if it happens this time for Bay!

Rodimus Prime wrote:You're probably right. I'm just really pissed off because I grew up with G1 and that's what I was expecting.

Well that sounds like you've got no one to blame but yourself really.

It was stated many times well in advance that "this isn't going to be G1", but some people they just wouldn't listen would they!

Burn wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:You're probably right. I'm just really pissed off because I grew up with G1 and that's what I was expecting.

Well that sounds like you've got no one to blame but yourself really.

It was stated many times well in advance that "this isn't going to be G1", but some people they just wouldn't listen would they!

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

You guys are both right, but still...couldn't they just put a touch of G1 in there somewhere...

*walks away hanging head*

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Burn wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:You're probably right. I'm just really pissed off because I grew up with G1 and that's what I was expecting.

Well that sounds like you've got no one to blame but yourself really.

It was stated many times well in advance that "this isn't going to be G1", but some people they just wouldn't listen would they!

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

You guys are both right, but still...couldn't they just put a touch of G1 in there somewhere...

*walks away hanging head*

If you step back and take a truly open-minded approach to it, what has been done with the new movie franchise is actually a good thing for the TF franchise as a whole. By starting with something...well, not G1, and getting the interest of a whole new group of people, this is actually helped the fan base for Transformers. I had several people
with little prior interest before the movie seek me out to answer questions and expand their knowledge or at least point them to resources so they could find out more about TF's. Even my own kids, who really had little interest in anything prior to Beast Wars had a renewed interest in everything (G1 til present) once the movie came out.
It would have been cool, in some respects, to have seen some more of G1 in the new movies but in the long run I think
it helped the franchise more by having a practically clean slate to start with. I've been collecting TF's since the start and I've rolled with every change and every incarnation of the Transformers. I took everything in with an open mind because they (Hasbro) have to change with the times to be profitable and hold the kids' interest. It's massively cool for me to be able to sit and enjoy something like Transformers with my kids and I hope it sticks around and evolves long enough for me to someday enjoy it with my grandkids too.