List of Tracks that will Play in Rise of the Beasts includes themes from Bayverse and 86 Movie and lots of R&B

noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.

Cheesinator wrote:Arrival To Earth and Unicron themes will be very cool to hear! I was hoping for the original Bayverse Decepticon theme as well, but see how this wouldn't be the movie for that (if they are indeed ever bringing it back).

noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.

Tbh I've seen a lot of, uh, interesting takes on this topic but this is the first time I've seen inclusion of non-white people in a movie as being a virus.

Kinda jarring to see hateful rhetoric like that in a forum about transforming robots, but oh well.

First-Aid wrote:

Cheesinator wrote:

noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.

Tbh I've seen a lot of, uh, interesting takes on this topic but this is the first time I've seen inclusion of non-white people in a movie as being a virus.

Kinda jarring to see hateful rhetoric like that in a forum about transforming robots, but oh well.

He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story. Nothing wrong with equality, race,, etc. Honestly, I'm not homophobic, racist, etc, I just don't care about it UNLESS it overrides the story. I think his worry is that race will BECOME the story and not the Transformers. It could be an element, but it shouldn't BE the story. Culture/race/etc could be the backdrop/setting, but in the case of ROTB it shouldn't overshadow the fact that there are giant f--king robots trying to blow the snot out of each other.

Hopefully I'm wording it better and it makes more sense. Please let me know if I'm not. It's really hard to explain this...it's like walking on eggshells. And I'm generally pretty crappy at explaining things that aren't related to medicine...

Cheesinator wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Cheesinator wrote:

noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.

Tbh I've seen a lot of, uh, interesting takes on this topic but this is the first time I've seen inclusion of non-white people in a movie as being a virus.

Kinda jarring to see hateful rhetoric like that in a forum about transforming robots, but oh well.

He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story. Nothing wrong with equality, race,, etc. Honestly, I'm not homophobic, racist, etc, I just don't care about it UNLESS it overrides the story. I think his worry is that race will BECOME the story and not the Transformers. It could be an element, but it shouldn't BE the story. Culture/race/etc could be the backdrop/setting, but in the case of ROTB it shouldn't overshadow the fact that there are giant f--king robots trying to blow the snot out of each other.

Hopefully I'm wording it better and it makes more sense. Please let me know if I'm not. It's really hard to explain this...it's like walking on eggshells. And I'm generally pretty crappy at explaining things that aren't related to medicine...

That does make more sense, but (unless I'm misunderstanding) I don't get how the issue could be wokeness itself, rather than the same issue *every* live action Transformers movies has had wherein the humans take up the bulk of the screentime and provide the skeleton of the story that the Transformer-related setpieces are placed around.

Whether it's LeBouf fumbling through his romances and quirky family, Wahlberg dysfunction with his daughter or being an Arthurian knight or something (I barely paid attention to TLK), or Hailee Steinfeld dealing with the loss of her dad...the core story of the movies has always heavily involved humans and their drama, with the big robot fights being almost totally unrelated. So it seems a bit odd if someone only has a major issue with that now when the only difference seems to be that the human drama is about race (and as far as we know, that isn't even the case in ROTB; we just know the main characters are nonwhite and will do nonwhite things).

(All that said, I'd also prefer human action is kept to a minimum if it means more robot interactions)

First-Aid wrote:He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story.

william-james88 wrote:The only thing "woke" about the film is that this time it stars black and latino people as the main human characters, rather than white ones. We will see their struggles, just as we saw the struggles of past white protagonists.

Kamijou Touma wrote:The music of the TF live action movies makes me appreciate the 86 movie music all the more. The music is just awful.

william-james88 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story.

The only thing "woke" about the film is that this time it stars black and latino people as the main human characters, rather than white ones. We will see their struggles, just as we saw the struggles of past white protagonists. If that's enough to be considered woke than that tells me that the word "woke" has lost all meaning.

Cheesinator wrote: We know so little about the human plot at the moment, that anyone using 'woke' as a serious criticism is exposing themselves pretty blatantly.

First-Aid wrote:

Cheesinator wrote: We know so little about the human plot at the moment, that anyone using 'woke' as a serious criticism is exposing themselves pretty blatantly.

Not necessarily. Many people are dealing with a perceived overdose of it right now. It could be paranoia that it's going to affect the plot. It may simply be paranoia. I freely admit though that at some point TV and movies became more about "teaching lessons" on things that most people already know than about the escape from reality or the art; it detracts from the fun of the movie/show.

Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.

Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.

Rodimus Prime wrote:It might be when the director himself stated that "this film will be for black and brown people." That's a quote from 1 of the early pages of this thread. As in, whites f**k off. At least he has the backbone to come out and say it outright that that's the agenda here. The music selection just solidifies it even more.

Previously I stated that the Transformers story itself might suffer for it (much like it did in previous films), but with all the details released already, the movie might be worth a watch on streaming sometime.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.

The "wokeness" is turning this into something "extraordinary", "groundbreaking", "so stunning", "so brave", when it's none of the above.
The woke will go full "LOOK, LOOK, I CAST COLORED PEOPLE IN MY THING!" with religious fervor.

Cheesinator wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.

The "wokeness" is turning this into something "extraordinary", "groundbreaking", "so stunning", "so brave", when it's none of the above.
The woke will go full "LOOK, LOOK, I CAST COLORED PEOPLE IN MY THING!" with religious fervor.

Oof, bringing religious fervor into it and saying that it's the woke side that are guilty of it. That seems very tone-deaf, especially these days.

Also, deeply ironic way of describing 'woke' when no one in this thread is saying anything about nonwhite people being cast in the movie as some great thing, but you and others apparently have some major issue with it. Like, why blame the (nonexistent in this thread) "woke people"? Just say what you really feel about the casting and be up front about it, at least.

Cheesinator wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:It might be when the director himself stated that "this film will be for black and brown people." That's a quote from 1 of the early pages of this thread. As in, whites f**k off. At least he has the backbone to come out and say it outright that that's the agenda here. The music selection just solidifies it even more.

Previously I stated that the Transformers story itself might suffer for it (much like it did in previous films), but with all the details released already, the movie might be worth a watch on streaming sometime.

Simply portraying cultures of black and brown people is not really the same as "whites **** off". In the same way portraying white families (and their cultures) in the previous movies was not a "POC **** off".

Just to be clear, would you prefer that all films have only (or at least predominantly) white casts? And any deviance would be 'woke'?

First-Aid wrote:

Cheesinator wrote: We know so little about the human plot at the moment, that anyone using 'woke' as a serious criticism is exposing themselves pretty blatantly.

Not necessarily. Many people are dealing with a perceived overdose of it right now. It could be paranoia that it's going to affect the plot. It may simply be paranoia. I freely admit though that at some point TV and movies became more about "teaching lessons" on things that most people already know than about the escape from reality or the art; it detracts from the fun of the movie/show.