Machinima Transformers Titans Return Episode 7 REVIEW

Okay, to be a little fair to Giant Victorion's singleminded calling for Overlord when she first appears, she did come to the city to seek him out specifically, so as to avenge the death of the Mistress of Flame. It's just that her singlemindedness blinding her to virtually everything else happening around her in that moment was what was so baffling.

Also, almost the entirety of Fort Max's transformation was done offscreen. Not even his head attaching to his body (his main toy gimmick!) was shown.

o.supreme wrote:

Bronzewolf wrote:So, we've finally reached the eighth episode of Machinima's Titans Return animated series.

I know you really want the pain to end, we all do, It's only episode 7 though...

Bronzewolf wrote:
He'll save Windblade in a second, first Emissary needs to do his daily aerobics workout.

Thanks Bronzewolf. I was hoping you'd get this shot. DJ- M IZ HARRY in the house y'all !!!!!

Oh Damn it! Star Wars on the brain. Fixed. Thanks! (And yes, I also wanted to make a DJ reference, but I did that a couple reviews ago with Perceptor.)

Bronzewolf wrote:If you slowed these episodes down and replaced the audio with some Vaporwave, it would work 100 times better.

I would love if someone did some creative video editing and made like a 15-hour loop of vaporwave to Machinima Tramsformers... maybe just DJ Emissary.

Have they even shown any Titan Masters transforming with their Autobot? I started watching, but kinda got bored. All I want to see at this point is how they handle the transformation.

CobraKai wrote:Have they even shown any Titan Masters transforming with their Autobot? I started watching, but kinda got bored. All I want to see at this point is how they handle the transformation.

A titan master has yet to transform in this series. And Emissary is the only titan master who has appeared

Transformation in general is handled pretty poorly, probably because of the low frame rate. I think the only ones that Transformed in CW were Optimus, Megatron (2 different modes wow...), Windblade (& Maxima that was the same model...), Starscream...that's about it.

No combiner components were shown other than 3 separate constructicons in CW and one of the helicopters from Victorion in TR. No combination sequences. No scenes of Titans actually transforming, they just kind of *rise up*. The transformations are not that complex either, not sure if anyone slowed them down frame-by-frame but I'm pretty sure a lot is skipped over.

Also it's pretty obvious Perceptor & Overlord have TM's as heads, but the rest of the cast do not, despite them having toys in the TR toyline. (Except Mistress of flame who is obviously an anomaly and Im pretty sure there isn't even an animation model for an alt mode for her) I guess it would have been a pain, and too much explaining to do if they all suddenly had TM heads . They would have had to come up with an actual long-form story.

I figure at some point Emissary will give Fort Max a power up much like he did the other Titans, but I doubt we will see Cerebros.

Also, while It's nice to see Overlord in semi-animated form. If it does turn out that his bad touch turns Hot Rod into Rodimus Unicronus as a tease for POTP, wouldn't it have been better for him to be The Fallen? or...maybe even Sentinel Prime? Somebody evil that has a connection to the Prime's or Unicron?

CobraKai wrote:Have they even shown any Titan Masters transforming with their Autobot? I started watching, but kinda got bored. All I want to see at this point is how they handle the transformation.

Machinima? Showing the main gimmick of the toyline that their Transformers cartoons are meant to advertise? Sure you jest.

^ so should we expect in PotP to see Titan Masters running around everywhere , or making a futile attempt to attack whatever the big bad of that series will be.

If Emissary isn't the head of Cerebros and therefore Fort Max, why does he have Cerebros's face on his back? And why does Perceptor have titan master legs on his head when he's not shown to have a headmaster/Titan master unit? God damn it Machinima.

And yes, Super Victorion (for lack of a better name) teleporting right in front of Trypticon and then completely ignoring him is utterly baffling.

This season started off with potential! Bring it back!

The new Titans Return Animated Series by Machinima has been available for viewing on Go90 for people in the US. It's long been a talking point on both this series and it’s predecessor, Combiner Wars, how inaccessible the episodes are if you're outside the US. Well, for international fans of the show, we might have some good news. Go90 has thrown the first episode of the new series up on their Go90Saga YouTube channel. It will be interesting to see if the rest of the episodes are also released there, or if it will continue to be primarily on Go90. You can watch the video below, and then read our Seibertron.com review of this episode here!

Good news everyone. The 'vanilla' Titans Returns has been dragging it's feet so long that the trailer for the Geewun Rone version is already up

I may have said it before but the voice acting in this is really great. I think Starscream's voice actor is also really well done, sounds really close to his G1 voice. It rivals TFP Starscream's voice for being my favorite.

The YouTube video is not for EVERYONE outside the US, but only for selected countries. It's blocked in Japan, for example.

Come on, Seibertron, we had this discussion during the Combiner Wars videos.

Episode 8 - https://www.go90.com/videos/3mScbYBjij0

Well, that episode was a whole lot of nothing.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, that episode was a whole lot of nothing.

Whoah now hold on.

Don't go talking it up like that, you'll get peoples hopes up!

I mean sure, there was a lot of punching and shooting at Trypticon, and Trypticon stomping and shooting at everyone, and then there were Combiners who, like previous episodes, had more screen time than the entire series dedicated to them.

And then there's the whole Fortress Maximus being really big, but incredibly slow to fly.

Oh and that one time when Optimus thought he was back in the 86 movie.

But yeah, another drawn out episode that didn't really do much at all.

And for those outside the US, have a present.

Let's look for the positives. The action sequences were nice. We saw Trypticon's base mode. Victorion's acting is decent. We got an allusion that combiners are, actually, combined robots and not just monolithic units.

Negatives: "Beware the power of the Primes." "What?" "............"
Fort Max is slow
Still no Cerebros
Giant Robot Hands Save Lives (maybe not applicable since he might have survived impact with the ground, and it was the impaling he avoided)
Menasor's voice
More combiner warring than in all of Combiner Wars (kind of a positive except for the title relevancy)
The destruction is supposedly catastrophic. Sure would be nice if we could get some perspective on that damage.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, that episode was a whole lot of nothing.

For weeks and weeks we've both posted our thoughts on each episode, as have several others. I don't know if it was the long weekend or what, but after watching this episode, and before seeing your comment I was going to just post a comment myself, but you beat me too it.

I know Bronzewolf puts a lot of effort into reviewing these episodes for the site, but honestly, I wouldn't blame him if he just took a week off, and skipped to next weeks episode

I mean, last episode was a whole lot of nonsense, and with "nonsense" there's at least a craziness or insanity to it. While "nothing" is just... boring.

Burn wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, that episode was a whole lot of nothing.

Whoah now hold on.

Don't go talking it up like that, you'll get peoples hopes up!

I mean sure, there was a lot of punching and shooting at Trypticon, and Trypticon stomping and shooting at everyone, and then there were Combiners who, like previous episodes, had more screen time than the entire series dedicated to them.

And then there's the whole Fortress Maximus being really big, but incredibly slow to fly.

Oh and that one time when Optimus thought he was back in the 86 movie.

But yeah, another drawn out episode that didn't really do much at all.

And for those outside the US, have a present.

Cheers. They link actually works for me in Japan (unlike the YouTube links).

When is the PROPER, "Geewun Reedun" version going to be out, though?

Welcome back, Seibertronians! If you celebrate it, I hope you had a very Merry Christmas, you had a good time with your friends and loved ones, and that Santa left many robots under your tree. But let's forget about all the happy feelings we've acquired over the past few days and immediately throw them into a pit of despair and agony, because it's time again for Machinima's Titans Return!

Okay, I'm being overdramatic, because this series on the whole is still leagues better than any Transformer content we've gotten out of Machinima previously. It's when you start breaking it down and looking into the individual episodes when things start to fall apart. Let's do exactly that with the new installment, Episode 8: In Good Hands!

This Episode of Titans Return sponsored by Allstate

We again find Super Combiner Victorion fighting Trypticon, and it's very Sentai/Classic Mecha inspired, and it's actually pretty cool. The one thing that detracts from this is Victorion's grunts. There's little variation to them, so they end up sounding like a video game character they only recorded one "Pain" sound for. It gets grating and annoying, but the scene changes fast enough so it doesn't get too much. That's really a nitpick, though, on an otherwise fun scene.

AGH. AGH. AGH. AGH. AGH. AGH. AGH.

We cut back to Windblade and Fortress Maximus, who are both floating through the sky in a truly Studio Ghibli fashion. They analyse the situation before they arrive, and again it's a very nice scene. Michael Dorn is great as Fort Max, and even with his robotic lines, he packs in a lot of emotion. Some of Windblade's lines here are feel a bit disconnected from the scene, but, like I said a couple reviews ago, it's obvious that not all of these actors recorded at the same time, which makes it hard to match the emotion of a scene and make a conversation sound natural.

At the same time, the Chorus of Banes from the Dark Knight Rises-Sorry, the Chorus of Primes talks to Optimus about the threats currently gripping the city, and he decides to join the fight. The Combiners split from their super-combiner mode, and decide to attack Trypticon individually. There's some scale discrepancies here, but it's not that big of a deal.

Energon Mains UNDER the city? They seem to be pretty on the surface to me, hence why your friend just fell in one.

Victorion finds some random energon shard (??) and decides to hurl it at Trypticon to make him fall into an Energon main behind him. Again, we get a weirdly long establishing shot to get across this idea. The shot lasts 9 seconds, when it could have easily been done in 3 and still have done it's job.

It's the Cybertronian Olympics! All the way from Caminus comes Victorion, competing for the Gold in Javelin!

The lack of visible damage in this show is really bothering me, as well. Prime is just wailing on Trypticon's neck with his axe, and it's clearly hurting him, as Trypticon recoils and gets angry while he's doing it, but there's no visible damage or wear from the attacks. This is the same case as Metroplex back in the beginning of this show. He was apparently so damaged he couldn't continue to fight, but we didn't see any damage until his entire arm got blown off.

Does about the same amount of damage as the actual toys would do to each other.

Victorion throws her spear at Trypticon but - shock! - she misses, instead hitting the Energon line behind him, causing a huge explosion, engulfing everyone around it. I would have loved to have been in the Metroplex City Planning meeting where they just decided to put extremely volatile rivers that explode at the slightest touch flowing through the middle of the city.

Trypticon actually transforms into base mode, and starts using his defense systems to hold his attackers back. He fires directly at Optimus, launching him across the city. Just as he's about to crash into the street, Fort Max comes down from the heavens to save him at the last second. Not sure how that landing was any softer, considering Fort Max is also made out of metal, just like the ground, but what are you going to do? Windblade comes to him and tells him to relax, because he's "In good hands".

Roll cred-Hey! they actually did!

Overall, I think this episode is a solid "Okay". I mean, it's certainly not as laughably bad as the previous couple of episodes, but that's a pretty low bar. It is very nice to look at, though. I think they nailed the character models and set pieces. Surprisingly, the art style and animation are quickly becoming my favorite part about this series, when they were one of my biggest issues in Combiner Wars. The subtle improvements they made really did make a difference. Like I said in the previous review, the colors are really aesthetically pleasing, too. Most of the voice acting's okay, at least, if not better. Peter Cullen and Michael Dorn are particular highlights. It just feels like there's no weight to anything that's happening. No consequence. Maybe that's because of that damage issue I touched on above; no one is shown to physically get injured through all of these battles, so there doesn't feel like there's any desperate issues, even though there's a giant robot dinosaur attacking the city.

It'll be interesting to see how all of this wraps up in the coming weeks. Thanks for tuning in once again, and please keep the discussion going in the energon pub forums below. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Please tell me why. See you next week!

Bronzewolf wrote:Victorion throws her spear at Trypticon but - shock! - she misses, instead hitting the Energon line behind him, causing a huge explosion, engulfing everyone around it.

I actually think she meant to hit the vein. She saw that Devastator done went boom in one, realized they went boom when things touched them, and grabbed the shard. Then she shouted at everyone to back away so that they would not go boom (not that it would matter, these robots seem indestructible) and then she threw it. And then it went boom.

Nexus Knight wrote:

Bronzewolf wrote:Victorion throws her spear at Trypticon but - shock! - she misses, instead hitting the Energon line behind him, causing a huge explosion, engulfing everyone around it.

I actually think she meant to hit the vein. She saw that Devastator done went boom in one, realized they went boom when things touched them, and grabbed the shard. Then she shouted at everyone to back away so that they would not go boom (not that it would matter, these robots seem indestructible) and then she threw it. And then it went boom.

That's how I took it as well.

when I watched this a second time, (I know glutton for punishment), when Trypticon had Victorions sword in his mouth, did anyone else think it looked like a giant pacifier.

Burn wrote:

Nexus Knight wrote:

Bronzewolf wrote:Victorion throws her spear at Trypticon but - shock! - she misses, instead hitting the Energon line behind him, causing a huge explosion, engulfing everyone around it.

I actually think she meant to hit the vein. She saw that Devastator done went boom in one, realized they went boom when things touched them, and grabbed the shard. Then she shouted at everyone to back away so that they would not go boom (not that it would matter, these robots seem indestructible) and then she threw it. And then it went boom.

That's how I took it as well.

I was more or less being sarcastic, saying that they set it up like she was trying to push Trypticon into the Energon lines, but that ended up not being her plan. That would also cause a large explosion, for the record, so telling everyone to get away would still make sense.

o.supreme wrote:when I watched this a second time, (I know glutton for punishment), when Trypticon had Victorions sword in his mouth, did anyone else think it looked like a giant pacifier.

Honestly, my first thought when I saw him hold her sword in his mouth was that I thought he was going to try to breathe his fire breath through the sword, as though the sword could serve as some sort of power conduit to augment his stream of fire breath, and that him doing so at so close a range to Victorion might be a way for Trypticon to instantly kill her in one final blow.

BUUUUUUT I guess that idea would have been too creative for this show to have thought of.

Sabrblade wrote:BUUUUUUT I guess that idea would have been too creative for this show to have thought of.

Instead, let's remind people of Trypticons short arms!

TBH the logical thing for him to do would be to break the sword in his jaws.

trying to stab her with it in his mouth looked , well stupid.

i will say that the episode had prob the best visual so far for trypticon in terms of his base mode firing all weapons.

even though they jipped out on showing him clearly transform into it.

it was nice to see the combiners work as a team too. nice nod to computron and how long it takes him to formulate a plan.

it is kinda mad that this is more combiner wars than titans return though !

but yeah there really wasnt much to this episode. real sence of "treading water".

Today we have to share with you a very cool stop motion video promoting the Machinima Titans Return animated series viewable on go90 (in the US). It includes some neat effects and sounds applied to a video of real Titans Returns figures in action. The video features a battle between Optimus Prime and Hot Rod against Overlord taking place in an office space. It's worth the watch as it uses some really great animation, the production team put in a lot of effort and it shows. We won't spoil the fight for you, you can watch it mirrored below.

Also, if you enjoy Titans Return figures, please be aware that some Target stores are putting some Titans Return figures on clearance after the holidays. It may be worth it to go on a toy hunt to see what you may find!

Better frame rate and story than the actual show... Sad.

He... He shot Hot Rod right out of his guns.

Just goes to show how easy it is to steal the Matrix from someone. Its funny how Hot Rod shot his jet cockpit off his arm, I have so many priblems with that popping off the little handle piece.

I love how Overlord is conking people on the head with it, how is he holding that though? Movie magic? Or is there an actual onnection point?

Love that G2 Prime every time I see it, but man when I put it on my shelf with the other bots its just not whT I want in an Optimus Prime.

LE0KING wrote:Better frame rate and story than the actual show... Sad.

True.

Flashwave wrote:Love that G2 Prime every time I see it, but man when I put it on my shelf with the other bots its just not whT I want in an Optimus Prime.

I totally get that and I felt that until I got it in actual G2 Prime deco, Then it all made sense.

Maybe the whole Machinima show should've been done in stop motion.

And as far as I can tell, Overlord's cockpit cannot attach to his wrist like that.

This is great. Absolutely amazing.

Just spent 10 min trying to fit the ship on the arm. Without success.

william-james88 wrote:

Flashwave wrote:Love that G2 Prime every time I see it, but man when I put it on my shelf with the other bots its just not whT I want in an Optimus Prime.

I totally get that and I felt that until I got it in actual G2 Prime deco, Then it all made sense.

Yeah, the normal retail version is more "G2 Laser Optimus Prime wearing Star Convoy's deco instead of his own" than not.

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Flashwave wrote:Love that G2 Prime every time I see it, but man when I put it on my shelf with the other bots its just not whT I want in an Optimus Prime.

I totally get that and I felt that until I got it in actual G2 Prime deco, Then it all made sense.

Yeah, the normal retail version is more "G2 Laser Optimus Prime wearing Star Convoy's deco instead of his own" than not.

For me, its more the proportions. I have my CW Optimus Prime affixed between a mix if CHUG and Prime and he just looks right. Big without being looming, not his G1 Proportion but also not wrong. The G2 Prime just sorta washes out in the crowd

Almost forgot about Episode 9 tonight - https://www.go90.com/videos/2BxPz9NWuwH

The excitement Optimus expresses at the beginning of this episode, about Fort Max being awake, is probably the happiest that Peter Cullen has made any of his Optimus Primes sound in the past decade.

With another episode in the Machinima animated series Transformers Titans Return now available, we also have yet another interview with voice actor and Transformers legend Peter Cullen - the voice of Optimus Prime in the series along with many others - courtesy of Comic Book.com!

The brief conversation can be found below, and you can head here for the full piece. Make sure to check back later on Seibertron.com for a review of the latest episode, too.

During a conversation about Transformers: Titans Return, a webseries that brings Cullen back together with Transformers: The Movie co-star Judd Nelson and other legendary Transformers names, the voice acting legend (who long played Eeyore in Disney's Winnie the Pooh franchise) recalled the wild days of early Transformers seasons when none of the cast were sure anyone was watching.

“I’m a Generation One fan, always have been for many reasons, obviously,” Cullen told ComicBook.com. “It’s the beginning and a successful beginning and a continuing journey of success. Generation One, to see it all happening that way again, reminds me sentimentally of the old days. The only thing missing is the cast; I don’t work with the full cast the way that we used to. I miss the days when we would have laugh attacks and production would shut down for five or six minutes due to everyone laughing so hard they couldn’t stop. Those were the days that I cherished.”

He added that in those early days, working with people like Mel Blanc (in some non-Transformers work) and Frank Welker (Megatron), he was constantly floored by the level of talent that he was working with, even if animation was still considered something of an acting ghetto at that time.

“These creative minds, these vocal geniuses playing multiple characters, inventing them, there’s no greater thrill to be sitting and recording with people who are that capable. You’re just in awe; it’s jaw-dropping,” Cullen said. “I have great appreciation for them; and it's great to get someone like Judd Nelson back. What a great, talented person and a special kind of human being. His approach to acting is a great, great asset to the franchise. We don’t have much opportunity to work with too many other people, but Frank Welker I do. We convene together at conventions, et cetera, and we get an opportunity to back and forth with each other, which is laugh-attack-ville.”

Well It was kind of cool to see Fort Max as a fully powered Titan, able to stand up to Trypticon even with augmented Powers. Having Trypticons transformation again shrouded was disappointing. They should have just made this an actual animated series instead of a cheap web-series. Of course when I say full animated series, I mean with professional level writers, directors, animators etc...Yeah I know Hasbro would never go for it, that's why we cant have nice things.

I just starting watching G1 again, like over this weekend, and trying to do the whole series. IT's amazing to hear how young Optimus Prime sounds to how he does now. I know that's because Peter is older, but you could honestly believe this is part of that continuity, you know, if they hadn't screwed it up. lol

Happy New Year, Seibertronians! With a new year comes more Titans Return, and so we arrive on the ninth episode of Machinima's animated series. Head-scratching moments abound, so let's just dive right in!

We open right where the previous episode left off, as Fort Max stands before Trypticon with Optimus, Windblade, and Emissary in his hand. And almost immediately off the bat we're reminded of one of the series' biggest issues. Fort Max is pelted with bolts from the same cannon that fired one shot at Prime and hurled him across the map, but acts like it's nothing. A mild inconvenience. He carries on a conversation through the entire scene while constantly getting hammered with countless lasers. This show needs to understand battles are not night and day, perfectly healthy to dead. Show some struggle, some battle damage. Heck, even if it's just little burn marks, just SOMETHING. Make us feel an emotional connection to the characters. If you don't want to do that, establish that they have a force field or shield around them, like the ships from Star Wars. Or, since this series loves glowy neon orbs so much, give him an actual lazer shield that expands from his arm! That would look so cool! THIS IS NOT THIS HARD, PEOPLE. It's really starting to bother me, and is really making it feel like they were just, frankly, too lazy to alter the character models in any way.

"Yeah, sure, we can make him fall over, but blaster marks? Ha! That's above MY pay grade."

Anyway, Trypticon transforms back to kaiju mode, and battles Fort Max, and again, the Titan fights are proven to be when this series is at it's best. The combiners can't reform their super combiner mode, as they've spent all of their energy. They decide to just split up and try to distract the Titan Dinosaur. Optimus discovers Megatron just watching the battle, and tries to convince him to fight. He's unsuccessful for the time being, as he's distracted by Fort Max, who lands a couple good hits on Trypticon, knocking him on his back. It looks like the Autobots have the upper hand for the first time in this battle, and Victorion rushes him, trying to finish him off. At the last second he turns his head and devours her whole. Literally, in one bite.

Hey, it's Attack on Titan! Heheheh

The odds then stack up against the Autobots, as not only did they lose a fighter but Trypticon has also consumed the Enigma of Combination, which somehow activates it, granting him magical powers. He promptly uses them to knock Fort Max and the other remaining Autohots down. It is a glorious couple of minutes of action, and it's extremely pretty. The visuals of Trypticon using the Enigma are very good looking. Again, the art style and color palette are very quickly becoming my favorite parts about this series.

I'm excited for the Doctor Strange remake starring Trypticon

Trypticon takes control of the other combiners and makes them turn on Fort Max. Windblade and Emissary decide they have to get them off the City Titan, so they do a couple strafing runs, knocking Devastator and Menasor off. Computron fights back, however, and sends her way off course, crashing into the ground, conveniently right at Megatron's feet.

I was almost going to complain about how Windblade shot Fort Max more than the combiners she was aiming for, but then I realized there's no point, because damage is meaningless in this series. HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

Windblade convinces Megatron to finally join the fight, and he narrowly saves Optimus from Devastator. While this is all happening, Perceptor has received a message from the Matrix of Leadership, which he's supposed to be carrying to safety. He brings it back into the city, presents it to Trypticon, and also gets straight up eaten whole. With that, the episode ends.

Trypticonus Prime?

This episode brings us one step closer to the end of this season, and I have to say i'm kind of enjoying the overarching story. When you zoom into each episode, the details and execution annoy me, sure, but the actual story isn't awful. It's an interesting idea, and now that we're closer to the climax, the action is more fast-paced, fun and definitely watchable. Depending on how they tie it all up, of course, but that remains to be seen.

Thanks for reading! You can watch this episode for yourself over on Go90, and come back and tell me if you agree or if you think I was totally off base. Catch you next week with the release of Episode 10!

This series has been a better watch but, man it drags on sometimes.

Stuff ALMOST happened with this episode.

I mean sure, there was still the whole bit with Optimus telling the combiners to separate ... only to ignore him and get promptly taken over by Trytiscream.

Oh and Menasor and Devestator only got taken over because of their limited intelligence. Care to explain Computron then Windblade?

And hey look! It's Perceptor! Totally ignoring Optimus' orders as well. I don't think anyone respects his leadership abilities any more.

Except Megatron, maybe, though he's just hanging around for the lulz.

Good grief this series is a mess.

I want to say I think the Enigma of Combination is quite possibly the worst item ever conceived of and added into Transformers Lore. Whomever came up with it, should be thoroughly beat with their keyboard.

To a certain extent I would like to see them do a reissue of Trypicon in the Psychedelic magic scheme of translucent purples and glitter they us in here.

The best part of this episode Preceptor getting eaten. I loved him in the G1 cartoon but I can't stand him in this series. I admit, part of it is probably the voice actor for him this time around.

I think the idea of the Enigma is a good one, explaining how Combiners work, and can come into existence. How its been executed in this series, and the previous one, yes that is a point of contention I can understand.

Its kind of like Vector Sigma...Sure you can make new Transformers without it (i.e. The Dinobots), but they are going to have limitations. In my head canon, I always envisioned the Dinobots were taken to Vector Sigma at some point between 1985-2005, which explains their vastly augmented personalities from TFTM & on.

o.supreme wrote:Its kind of like Vector Sigma...Sure you can make new Transformers without it (i.e. The Dinobots), but they are going to have limitations. In my head canon, I always envisioned the Dinobots were taken to Vector Sigma at some point between 1985-2005, which explains their vastly augmented personalities from TFTM & on.

As a fan who didnt grow up with G1, the key to Vector sigma is what I have the hardest time making sense of. Especially when you link that to Beast Machines.

william-james88 wrote: As a fan who didnt gro up with G1, the key to Vector sigma is what I have the hardest time making sense of. Especially when you link that to Beast Machines.

yeah, BM screwed a lot of things up, but that's nothing new.

o.supreme wrote:

william-james88 wrote: As a fan who didnt gro up with G1, the key to Vector sigma is what I have the hardest time making sense of. Especially when you link that to Beast Machines.

yeah, BM screwed a lot of things up, but that's nothing new.

What did BM do with the Key that was wrong? In G1, it turned organic material into metal, just as it did in BM.