Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers

Transformers News: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers

Sunday, November 11th, 2018 3:47PM CST

Category: Toy News
Posted by: william-james88   Views: 19,057

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The recent Seibertron galleries have shown the Transformers Siege toys to be smaller than previous incarnations. For instance, Siege Megatron and Hound are shorter than Titans Return Megatron and Combiner Wars Hound respectively. But does that mean we are getting ripped off? Especially since the MSRP is now $19.99 for deluxes and $29.99 for voyagers? Well ‎TF Fan West Lee, on Facebook, chose to look at this from a mass perspective. Figures in the past might be tall but if they are hollow, a very common complaint from fans, then maybe fixing that aspect might mean more material and thus lower the overall height for this line. And he found that this line offers more in terms of mass (and thus meterial) than previous lines. Here is what he had to say along with the images showing that Siege Megatron, for instance, has much more material than most other voyagers.

Have you seen the complaints that WFC-S figures are smaller than the previous figures? Well are they smaller? In terms of height, some Siege figures are slightly shorter yes, but in terms of mass? Well let's use facts here, people say that TR Megs is bigger than WFC-S Megs, well in terms of mass (g) the latter is bigger. Here are a few other comparisons. Based on the weights, the figures have NOT decreased in mass at all. The unified scale is the explanation as to why some are shorter. All in all, Siege is a massive improvement.

There is a misconception of cost / height, the height of a figure in relation to cost, saving, cutting etc is irrelevant, the weight is relevant, pay per gram not per inch, raw materials go by raw weight.


Transformers News: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers

Transformers News: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers

Transformers News: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers

Transformers News: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers
Credit(s): West Lee
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Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993639)
Posted by Mkall on November 11th, 2018 @ 4:13pm CST
I'm curious how this matches the mass of other Voyagers from previous Generations lines.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993641)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 11th, 2018 @ 4:38pm CST
Skritz wrote:Can't wait to get a matching Targetmaster for my Triggerhappy and Hot Rod.

Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993650)
Posted by JelZe GoldRabbit on November 11th, 2018 @ 5:12pm CST
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Skritz wrote:Can't wait to get a matching Targetmaster for my Triggerhappy and Hot Rod.

Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.


That would make him more similar to Pinpointer:

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Transformers G1 1987 Pinpointer Gallery

But I see what you're going for. Still, G1 toy accuracy isn't all that's "crack"ed up to be (ha ha):

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Transformers G1 1987 Peacemaker Gallery
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993668)
Posted by deliciouspeter on November 11th, 2018 @ 6:37pm CST
Fun. I hope someone weighs the leaders too.

They look great, but man those deluxes are short.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993671)
Posted by Combat Zero on November 11th, 2018 @ 6:50pm CST
william-james88 wrote:Continuing with new galleries for War for Cybertron SIEGE, we now bring you galleries for Battle Masters Blowpipe, Firedrive and Lionizer. These little guys are at the core of the line since they provide both the firepower and blast effects for you to recreate the War for Cybertron. Each effect can be added to the weapon to simulate it firing or it can be used creatively across your bots, like to show someone getting shot or even simulate the speed of the small Micromaster cars (Lionizer's effect is perfect for that).

While the Battle Masters are meant as a recreation of the Target Masters (all of these being new molds and not rereleases of Takara's recent offering of Target Masters), Hasbro uses this size class to bring back other aspects of this line's history such as Lionizer who is a modern version of the transforming accessory that came with the Action Master Rad. You can see a comparison between the two below.

Clicking on any of the following images will bring you to the full gallery of each Battle Master, enjoy!

War for Cybertron: SIEGE Blowpipe (150 images) - Battle Masters

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War for Cybertron: SIEGE Firedrive (162 images) - Battle Masters

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War for Cybertron: SIEGE Lionizer (88 images) - Battle Masters

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I'm liking the slash effect on Lionizer.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993676)
Posted by omega666 on November 11th, 2018 @ 7:12pm CST
Ok. Now weigh an $20 voyager Classics Optimus with this new $30 Optimus.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993677)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 11th, 2018 @ 7:18pm CST
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Skritz wrote:Can't wait to get a matching Targetmaster for my Triggerhappy and Hot Rod.

Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.


That would make him more similar to Pinpointer:

Eh, not really. As is very clear in that image you showed, Pinpointer's barrel mount is located on the backs of his feet, not the backs of his knees.

Image
Image
On Firebolt, the barrels are definitely attached to the back of the knees.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:But I see what you're going for. Still, G1 toy accuracy isn't all that's "crack"ed up to be (ha ha):

Maybe not, but I think it's important to have the general arrangement of things right, especially with the Targetmasters' gun modes since that's all they've got. As-is, Firedrive's gun mode... Forget the details, it's got the barrels sawn off and stuck to the lower back of the stock compared to the original! :-P

...I may have obsessively studied the details of Fracas, Nightstick, Recoil, and Firebolt with an eye to building homemade ones for myself. Just maybe. :-B :WHISTLE:
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993679)
Posted by Skritz on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:03pm CST
I'm not too bothered by the transformation scheme on the gun-base Battlemasters. I imagine this was just some cost-cutting mixed with shared engineering. Make me wonder if people won't 3d print new gun parts to make custom targetmasters. :-D
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993681)
Posted by william-james88 on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:14pm CST
omega666 wrote:Ok. Now weigh an $20 voyager Classics Optimus with this new $30 Optimus.


If it was $20 in 2006 then it would be at least $25 today when considering inflation.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993686)
Posted by YoungPrime on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:26pm CST
Not feeling the height of these Voyagers. You can tell that Starscream isn't even all that big which is those ports on his shoulders are so ridiculous tall.

Can't really defend more G1 characters or find a good enough reason to replace a lot of the CHUGS you already have when Hasbro is half@ssing everything but their prices.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993698)
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 11th, 2018 @ 9:20pm CST
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...

Image
Now, not so much.


The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993700)
Posted by Flashwave on November 11th, 2018 @ 9:31pm CST
Wolfman Jake wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...

Image
Now, not so much.


The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.


Except the fan gripe is not solely limited to one figure, the toyline as a whole is averaging down. I'm not a Scale guy, as long as Big Guys are Big and Little Guys are Little, ans the size of things doeant really bother me, but they arent wrong in saying that the Deluxes as a qhole are shorter. Siege Hound is smaller than Universe Hound, and by comparion he's not nearly the biggest oy out of his pruce range. Am I gwtting Siege Hound? Absolutely, I want a g
Figure with a better foot and the clip that holds on the holp generator on my Uni Hound is showing a stress fracture. But I'm not sure I will even see him above the other guys on my shelf.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993706)
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 11th, 2018 @ 10:37pm CST
Flashwave wrote:Except the fan gripe is not solely limited to one figure, the toyline as a whole is averaging down. I'm not a Scale guy, as long as Big Guys are Big and Little Guys are Little, ans the size of things doeant really bother me, but they arent wrong in saying that the Deluxes as a qhole are shorter. Siege Hound is smaller than Universe Hound, and by comparion he's not nearly the biggest oy out of his pruce range. Am I gwtting Siege Hound? Absolutely, I want a g
Figure with a better foot and the clip that holds on the holp generator on my Uni Hound is showing a stress fracture. But I'm not sure I will even see him above the other guys on my shelf.


Yes, Deluxe Class figures are shorter, but that's been true since Fall of Cybertron/Thrilling 30. It's not a new "problem." The Siege figures aren't really appreciably different compared to like-classed figures from the Prime Wars Trilogy. In some instances, you can point out a figure that is a hair (mm or so) shorter than another from recent history, but the figure isn't really "smaller." That's why some people are looking at overall mass too. Siege Hound has a lot more bulk down in his calves, simply due to the transformation scheme. If it had been done differently, some of the extra mass in the legs might have ended up in the torso, making him just a bit taller. Some of the comparison pic can be misleading too. If all you're going off is something like this:

Image


...then yes, Siege Hound looks shorter than Universe 2008 Hound, who in turn looks shorter than Combiner Wars Hound. The difference sure look significant in these pictures. However, what we're experiencing is a bit of an optical illusion. When the figures arranged as they are, left to right, with the smallest toys at the right and seemingly the largest at the left, our eyes are exaggerating the differences we're seeing, because we're expecting a size gradient based on how everything is arranged. The sharp drop off at the right end is making the differences at the left end seem more substantial than they actually are. (It also doesn't help that our perception of size differences is further compromised by the wide shot nature of this picture, putting the figures out in the "distance" of our visual field. Think of the moon illusion and how the moon looks different sizes at different distances from the visual horizon. The same issue happens here, on a much smaller scale (no pun intended). Take a look at these comparisons between only two figures at a time:

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Suddenly, those height differences look a LOT less drastic. We've got nice, close up shots of these figures paired together in our "near vision field," making for less "guesstimating" on the part of our visual processing. Siege figures are really not smaller or shorter than what has come before in the past six years or so. If you were somehow expecting the figures were going to get "bigger" again, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment (and you haven't really been paying attention for the last several years). This is the new normal with Transformers figure scaling, and it has been like this for a while. If your collection is primarily based on figures from between 2006 and 2011, when all figures were bigger, you're definitely going to have some scale problems now. Siege figures are meant to fit in with more contemporary figures from Thrilling 30 and onwards, and they do that very well.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993708)
Posted by Emerje on November 11th, 2018 @ 10:48pm CST
Wolfman Jake wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...

Image
Now, not so much.


The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.

I said the same thing last week and it went largely ignored. The "Lambo" mold was ridiculously tall even next to other tall Universe figures like the "Datsun" mold. I don't know why people keep using the Sideswipe comparison as an example of how much the line has shrunk when that Universe figure is just so absurd.

Image

It's going to be hard to properly judge sizes without actual measurements.

Emerje
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993711)
Posted by Caelus on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:21pm CST
Wolfman Jake wrote:Take a look at these comparisons between only two figures at a time:

Image


Suddenly, those height differences look a LOT less drastic. We've got nice, close up shots of these figures paired together in our "near vision field," making for less "guesstimating" on the part of our visual processing.


Combiner Wars Hound is crouching in the second picture.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993712)
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:44pm CST
I can see fans being salty a bout WFC:Siege being smaller than Combiner Wars figures... But as others have stated... Those are also more hollow, and effectively share a *lot* of engineering across the line saving costs (which they could budget into slightly larger figures?). Siege figures look more complex than any of the CW line.

As far as those that keep complaining "these aren't CHUG" (Pre-thrilling 30) again, as others have pointed out that was a time when plastic was cheaper and inflation was lower. While for being large-for-largeness-sake is one thing.... stylistically I wouldn't call them better figures than siege. Also nobody brings up Binaltech/Alternators.... if you want to talk about "big figures for your $". But I would also argue they haven't aged well (at least their robot modes).
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993713)
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:45pm CST
One could also argue by the figures trending smaller in the current line... they'd *scale better* with the Combiner War combiners in gestalt mode?!
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993715)
Posted by JelZe GoldRabbit on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:07am CST
The weight is an important factor to consider, because of a property you should have learned in physics: density.

Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.

Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993725)
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 3:17am CST
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The weight is an important factor to consider, because of a property you should have learned in physics: density.

Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.

Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.


That's a good question.... My guess would be the Unicron Trilogy would be the "current" heavy-weights. Though some of the first series of movie toys could surprise people.

But taking a cross section of Thrilling 30/Age of Extinction/Studio and CW trilogy could get interesting.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993731)
Posted by Z3ROhour on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:16am CST
is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.
:???: :-?

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