MP-23 Exhaust Release Delayed Until March

-Kanrabat- wrote:All that fuss over a tiny triangle shaped blank space over the green rectangle. Oh, corpyrights, you so cray cray.

Anyway, I would get Wheeljack over him anytimes.

Thankfully, we can get both.

Wolfguard wrote:

These new images show a slightly tweaked deco due to legal issues raised by Philip Morris which prevented the figure from being marketed or sold in the U.S. The initial deco used marks that are trademarked by Philip Morris for their Marlboro cigarettes brand. The green bits on the hood are now full rectangles while the red pattern on the hood has also been altered.

Well, well, well, looks like the thing I said could be done - what people told me wouldn't be done - just got done. Imagine that...

Jup, totally did not expect that. Still baffled that they did, looks like westerners have become a large enough part of their target market to care about stuff like that.

This could be potentially bad for Megatron now that I think about it...

fenrir72 wrote:So if Rieje/Mirage gets released, Tomy/Takara will now know what NOT to do then unless Gitanes is okay with their Logo posted on an MP figure/vehicle.

Does a French company have to deal with the same regulations Phillip Morris is subject to?

megatronus wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:So if Rieje/Mirage gets released, Tomy/Takara will now know what NOT to do then unless Gitanes is okay with their Logo posted on an MP figure/vehicle.

Does a French company have to deal with the same regulations Phillip Morris is subject to?

I don't see a problem. The toy had "Citanes", anyway. Why wouldn't they just go with that? They need the manufacturer's permission to replicate the car, but not necessarily the sponsor.

Wolfguard wrote:

These new images show a slightly tweaked deco due to legal issues raised by Philip Morris which prevented the figure from being marketed or sold in the U.S. The initial deco used marks that are trademarked by Philip Morris for their Marlboro cigarettes brand. The green bits on the hood are now full rectangles while the red pattern on the hood has also been altered.

Well, well, well, looks like the thing I said could be done - what people told me wouldn't be done - just got done. Imagine that...

Last I remember, you were talking about changing colors, which they did not. They merely tweaked the pattern.

Good to see TakaraTomy found a way around it.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Wolfguard wrote:

These new images show a slightly tweaked deco due to legal issues raised by Philip Morris which prevented the figure from being marketed or sold in the U.S. The initial deco used marks that are trademarked by Philip Morris for their Marlboro cigarettes brand. The green bits on the hood are now full rectangles while the red pattern on the hood has also been altered.

Well, well, well, looks like the thing I said could be done - what people told me wouldn't be done - just got done. Imagine that...

Last I remember, you were talking about changing colors, which they did not. They merely tweaked the pattern.

Good to see TakaraTomy found a way around it.

I'm glad too (clearly). Wish they could have kept the red on the hood the same - it looked so much more elegant in the unadulterated deco. Oh well. Again, crossing my fingers for stickers or some other fix to that issue (though getting into those hood grooves might be hard)...

I wonder how the Japanese feel about having the deco tweaked. I'd be annoyed if I were them. Question is: do we think this would have been cancelled if it were unavailable to American collectors? Or, do we think Takara would have been liable had these things found their way to the US somehow?

megatronus wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Wolfguard wrote:

These new images show a slightly tweaked deco due to legal issues raised by Philip Morris which prevented the figure from being marketed or sold in the U.S. The initial deco used marks that are trademarked by Philip Morris for their Marlboro cigarettes brand. The green bits on the hood are now full rectangles while the red pattern on the hood has also been altered.

Well, well, well, looks like the thing I said could be done - what people told me wouldn't be done - just got done. Imagine that...

Last I remember, you were talking about changing colors, which they did not. They merely tweaked the pattern.

Good to see TakaraTomy found a way around it.

I'm glad too (clearly). Wish they could have kept the red on the hood the same - it looked so much more elegant in the unadulterated deco. Oh well. Again, crossing my fingers for stickers or some other fix to that issue (though getting into those hood grooves might be hard)...

I wonder how the Japanese feel about having the deco tweaked. I'd be annoyed if I were them. Question is: do we think this would have been cancelled if it were unavailable to American collectors? Or, do we think Takara would have been liable had these things found their way to the US somehow?

I think they would be liable, somehow. Also, there is a chance Hasbro got involved since Transformers technically belongs to them, they are one of the most socially responsible companies in the world and all that. It is certainly a complicated legal issue.

I was just wondering - Perhaps the announcements of further Masterpiece figures has something to do with the delay of this figure? I mean, they would have had to redesign the paint application, retool the painting machines, change the art and perhaps reprint the boxes...etc. etc. They might have held up production on other things in order to make this change...

The fact that both the green and red chevron designs didn't actually angle to a point should have been enough to avoid this sort of thing in the first place. I can't fault TT for not wanting to waste the time or, more importantly, the money in a court case against Big Tobacco. The whole issue reminds me of when Apple 'invented' the rounded rectangle.
SMH

I'm very happy about this, as I was dreading having to pay $150 to some shady dude in Hong Kong....

More time for us to save.

Well it's a hit to authenticity (and therefore also a hit to the appeal of this figure, since the bona-fide Lancia deco was one of the major things going for it). Given that Malboor was never really a TF "character" anyway he's pretty much lost his only claim to fame here. I'll still get it because I'm a sucker for original official TF characters and I'm sure Reprolabels will do a thing, but this is a blow.

Dead Metal wrote:Jup, totally did not expect that. Still baffled that they did, looks like westerners have become a large enough part of their target market to care about stuff like that.

I'm sure they noticed when all of the major Japanese exporters like HobbyLink Japan, Hobby Search, and AmiAmi complained about having to delist him from their English stores. This didn't really effect me since the store I ordered from was small enough to fly under PM's radar and my order stayed active.

This could be potentially bad for Megatron now that I think about it...

Not likely. An orange stopper will still be enough to pass US toy gun safety standards. Exhaust was an entirely different type of legal issue. Big government lawyers aren't going to care nearly as much as big corporate lawyers.

Emerje

Diem wrote:Well it's a hit to authenticity (and therefore also a hit to the appeal of this figure, since the bona-fide Lancia deco was one of the major things going for it). Given that Malboor was never really a TF "character" anyway he's pretty much lost his only claim to fame here. I'll still get it because I'm a sucker for original official TF characters and I'm sure Reprolabels will do a thing, but this is a blow.

I feel ya. The authenticity factor was more or less the appeal of this character...

I actually prefer the new look to be honest.

Diem wrote:I'm sure Reprolabels will do a thing, but this is a blow.

Wouldn't count on that. Could be wrong, but pretty sure they're against ever doing the Marlboro thing based on some moral standard. Again, I could be wrong about this.

megatronus wrote:Question is: do we think this would have been cancelled if it were unavailable to American collectors? Or, do we think Takara would have been liable had these things found their way to the US somehow?

My guess would be that it was a way to placate retailers that place large orders that were going to have trouble moving that stock without import purchases. Think TRU since they usually do Australian distribution on these, and to a much lesser extent places like HLJ. Then again, the MSA is pretty draconian, so could have also had to do with TRU being liable even somewhere like Japan since they're US based. To keep on my disclaimer train, just want to state again that this is also all pure speculation

ScottyP wrote:

Diem wrote:I'm sure Reprolabels will do a thing, but this is a blow.

Wouldn't count on that. Could be wrong, but pretty sure they're against ever doing the Marlboro thing based on some moral standard. Again, I could be wrong about this.

Scotty is exactly right about this. They wont touch it with a 10 foot pole. The M word is a dirty word as far as they are concerned.

LOST Cybertronian wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Diem wrote:I'm sure Reprolabels will do a thing, but this is a blow.

Wouldn't count on that. Could be wrong, but pretty sure they're against ever doing the Marlboro thing based on some moral standard. Again, I could be wrong about this.

Scotty is exactly right about this. They wont touch it with a 10 foot pole. The M word is a dirty word as far as they are concerned.

This set is kind of expensive. But it includes both Wheeljack's and Exhaust's. It's also official.

Ironically, I know the person that brought the death to Joe Camel. She was a little girl at the time that thought the Camel lighter was a toy...so she played with it. She also just so happened to be wearing a Chuck-E-Cheese tshirt that had a highly flammable prit on it. She is scarred to this day as an adult.

LOST Cybertronian wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Diem wrote:I'm sure Reprolabels will do a thing, but this is a blow.

Wouldn't count on that. Could be wrong, but pretty sure they're against ever doing the Marlboro thing based on some moral standard. Again, I could be wrong about this.

Scotty is exactly right about this. They wont touch it with a 10 foot pole. The M word is a dirty word as far as they are concerned.

Not just Malboro though. I once contacted them if they would do a sticker set for Generations Wheeljack inspired by the Malboro deco, but instead use "Kup's Cygars" as branding. They refused and said they want absolutely nothing to do with anything similar to Malboro Wheeljack.

I'm sure Reprolabels.com will produce a set of decals to restore the original deco.

Blackstreak wrote:I'm sure Reprolabels.com will produce a set of decals to restore the original deco.

See the conversation above your post.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Wolfguard wrote:

These new images show a slightly tweaked deco due to legal issues raised by Philip Morris which prevented the figure from being marketed or sold in the U.S. The initial deco used marks that are trademarked by Philip Morris for their Marlboro cigarettes brand. The green bits on the hood are now full rectangles while the red pattern on the hood has also been altered.

Well, well, well, looks like the thing I said could be done - what people told me wouldn't be done - just got done. Imagine that...

Last I remember, you were talking about changing colors, which they did not. They merely tweaked the pattern.

Aaaaaand the point I made about changing it to work around the trademark issues remains the same.

Seems Philip Morris are still not happy with the revised appearance of Exhaust as Kapow Toys have been told..

It is with sadness that we have now stopped taking orders for Masterpiece Exhaust. Even with the changes to the bonnet it seems the tobacco company Philip Morris the parent company of Marlboro still do not like the fact a robotic car bares resemblance to one of their cigarette packets. We have been told in no certain terms that the product must be removed from our website immediately, yaaaaaaay frown emoticon

If you have any questions about the subject at hand please email contact@kapowtoys.co.uk for more info.

Thanks!

Andy

As posted on their Facebook page.

just no pleasing these guys eh?
i noticed TFsource has exhaust back up. i wonder if it will disappear again?

This is just getting ridiculous now.

A Facebook post by site sponsor Kapow Toys seems to indicate that there is still trouble ahead for MP-23 Exhaust. According to Kapow Toys, the recent deco change still hasn't been enough to clear the road ahead as they were told to remove the listing from the website. Keep it here at Seibertron.com and we will keep you informed of this ongoing Masterpiece Theater saga.

Kapow Toys wrote:It is with sadness that we have now stopped taking orders for Masterpiece Exhaust. Even with the changes to the bonnet it seems the tobacco company Philip Morris the parent company of Marlboro still do not like the fact a robotic car bares resemblance to one of their cigarette packets. We have been told in no certain terms that the product must be removed from our website immediately, yaaaaaaay

If this was going to be easy, owning a Malboor just wouldn't feel right.

Anybody else getting the feeling that PM just doesn't want it released, no matter what it looks like now?

Desslok2201 wrote:Anybody else getting the feeling that PM just doesn't want it released, no matter what it looks like now?

I'm sure that this is the case.


Regardless, this whole debacle is just getting Exhausting.

Robogeek1973 wrote:

Desslok2201 wrote:Anybody else getting the feeling that PM just doesn't want it released, no matter what it looks like now?

I'm sure that this is the case.


Regardless, this whole debacle is just getting Exhausting.

It is a bit of a drag, isn't it?....

I think the design is altered enough that Takara could take them to task on it, and countersue for the court costs and costs of delays if the court finds against PM.

My dreams of owning one are going up in smoke.
I'm so ashamed of myself now.

This is getting ridiculous. At this rate it'll never get released.

lost cybertronian, if it was you who chose that pic for the newspost, bravo sir

Whoever's in charge of Legal over at Phillip-Morris must have had a bad childhood experience with Transformers.

shajaki wrote:lost cybertronian, if it was you who chose that pic for the newspost, bravo sir

Indeed, I laughed hard over that.

Robogeek1973 wrote:

shajaki wrote:lost cybertronian, if it was you who chose that pic for the newspost, bravo sir

Indeed, I laughed hard over that.

I thought Materpiece Theatre was going to sue them over using the word "masterpiece." I was like, "Really? They just now caught wind of this?"

Maybe we should start a petition or email campaign to make PM concede?!?

This is so damn stupid...I guess no one can put Red, White and a detail of green without PM saying it's ok to do it. Damn, if thats the case, why isnt Moutain Dew suing over Dispensor (in any form)???

Surely there is a legal precedent that would absolve everyone I would think the laws that protect those who parody and lampoon would work...I say that because the very name "Exhaust" lends itself as a JOKE in regard to his deco.

All i know is PM apparently likes killing happiness, joy and fun as much as they like killing people.

Now I going to go wear a red shirt, white pants with green socks and wait to be told to cease and desist going outside dressed in a trademarked deco.

This just further illustrates how smoking is evil.

TFormers seems to think that exhaust will be outright cancelled. anyone else think this is a possibility? i thought that takara didnt care. but they obviously did, enough to try and alter to appease PM. is it time to start panicking?

shajaki wrote:lost cybertronian, if it was you who chose that pic for the newspost, bravo sir

I am pretty proud of that myself thanks

Desslok2201 wrote:Anybody else getting the feeling that PM just doesn't want it released, no matter what it looks like now?

They have to whatever it takes to get publicity and/or money since smoking continues to decline.

takara should tell philip morris to suck it!

Ultra Markus wrote:takara should tell philip morris to suck it!

If only. Phillip Morris USA, or rather, tobacco companies in general are very rich and powerful forces to be reckoned with. TakaraTomy would be fighting an uphill battle if they chose to directly go against PM's wishes. Let's keep hoping that this figure isn't completely doomed.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:Whoever's in charge of Legal over at Phillip-Morris must have had a bad childhood experience with Transformers.

And to think they let Kyoshu (scaled model car manufacturer) get away with a not Malboro version of the same car model.

fenrir72 wrote:

Nemesis Maximo wrote:Whoever's in charge of Legal over at Phillip-Morris must have had a bad childhood experience with Transformers.

And to think they let Kyoshu (scaled model car manufacturer) get away with a not Malboro version of the same car model.

When? And was it for sale in the U.S.?

I'm not sure if it matters whether it was sold in the US, as MP-23 is not marketed for US sale.

sol magnus wrote:I'm not sure if it matters whether it was sold in the US, as MP-23 is not marketed for US sale.

True, but importer retailers like BBTS, TFSource, etc. were interested in trying to sell this toy to U.S. consumers, which sparked this whole ordeal to begin with.

Whether it's domestic or imported, PM is trying its darnedest to keep this figure from ever being sold to the United States.

so, who thinks takara will say screw it and change the deco back now?

Since this would be an expensive figure and I already have Wheeljack, I don't really plan to get it, but out of sheer curiosity, I live in Mexico, would it be ilegal here?