New High Quality Stock Photography of Transformers War For Cybertron Siege Wave 1 Toys

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.
And this is, officially, prequel to the Machinima series so there were no Titan Masters yet!

Wolfman Jake wrote:

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.
And this is, officially, prequel to the Machinima series so there were no Titan Masters yet!

When was that stated? This is a brand new trilogy, with no ties to the previous. It's mostly based on the first episode of the original Transformers cartoon, before they all came to earth, but even then, it's taken a lot of creative liberties.

It's been explained before too that Cybertronian alt modes have cockpits and spaces for piloting because of the Quintessons.

First-Aid wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.
And this is, officially, prequel to the Machinima series so there were no Titan Masters yet!

When was that stated? This is a brand new trilogy, with no ties to the previous. It's mostly based on the first episode of the original Transformers cartoon, before they all came to earth, but even then, it's taken a lot of creative liberties.

It's been explained before too that Cybertronian alt modes have cockpits and spaces for piloting because of the Quintessons.

Quintessons huh? OK, that makes sense I suppose...but they always seemed to have their own separate vehicles, probably due to the fact that they didn't want to trust any of their creations.

I suppose that, since the Machinima series was post-Earth Wars and this is pre-Earth Wars, chronologically speaking it would fall in the prequel range. Unless we are dealing with a wibbley wobbley timey wimey thing....

First-Aid wrote:I suppose that, since the Machinima series was post-Earth Wars and this is pre-Earth Wars, chronologically speaking it would fall in the prequel range. Unless we are dealing with a wibbley wobbley timey wimey thing....

Wolfman Jake wrote:
They're entirely different continuities, unless otherwise stated by Hasbro. Yes, chronologically, what you are inferring makes some sense, but nothing links these two into a coherent, linear timeline right now. War for Cybertron is a story set in the earlier days of the Transformers' existence in a particular universe, and the Machinima cartoons are set at a point in time further into the future of the Transformers' existence in its own particular and different universe.

starrhero wrote:

leokearon wrote:Shockwave confirmed to be a rip-off: https://www.biccamera.com/bc/item/59206 ... ineContent

I mean, rip-off may be a strong word here. It seems the only true reason they made Shockwave a leader class figure was to give him things to hide the totally-not-obvious-but-so-clearly-obvious Submarine Laser Pistol Gun Ship mode. And at least they did something creative with it, instead of just packing him with a bunch of accessories to warrant the Leader price point.

This was clearly done with the G1 fans in mind, as they know there are people who want things as close to G1 as possible, and they
can't just do a gun mode anymore. It may be a little dumb, but they did it for a reason, not just to fill a leader class spot. (Though, I suppose it was probably done to do that as well.)

william-james88 wrote:In the sunbow cartoon chronology (where this line takes inspiration from), maximals come way later, after autobots have ceased existing.

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.

These are Cybertronian alt modes, right?

WHY IN THE NAME OF PRIMUS ARE THEIR PASSENGER COMPARTMENTS IF EVERYONE CAN CHANGE AND/OR ATTACH THEMSELVES? There would be literally no one to transport! The Actionmasters and Targetmasters can attach directly or have their own alt modes, and Headmasters don't exist yet! And this is, officially, prequel to the Machinima series so there were no Titan Masters yet!

End of rant.

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.

These are Cybertronian alt modes, right?

WHY IN THE NAME OF PRIMUS ARE THEIR PASSENGER COMPARTMENTS IF EVERYONE CAN CHANGE AND/OR ATTACH THEMSELVES?

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.

These are Cybertronian alt modes, right?

WHY IN THE NAME OF PRIMUS ARE THEIR PASSENGER COMPARTMENTS IF EVERYONE CAN CHANGE AND/OR ATTACH THEMSELVES?

I see it as much more simple. Transformers are sentient being with 2/3 modes, right? In bot mode, they see through their eyes. How are they supposed to see in vehicle mode? What you see as a cockpit, I see simply as the transformer's eyes while in alt mode. In other words, they see through their windshields. It also helps define the front of the vehicle.

Sabrblade wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.

These are Cybertronian alt modes, right?

WHY IN THE NAME OF PRIMUS ARE THEIR PASSENGER COMPARTMENTS IF EVERYONE CAN CHANGE AND/OR ATTACH THEMSELVES?

I see it as much more simple. Transformers are sentient being with 2/3 modes, right? In bot mode, they see through their eyes. How are they supposed to see in vehicle mode? What you see as a cockpit, I see simply as the transformer's eyes while in alt mode. In other words, they see through their windshields. It also helps define the front of the vehicle.

Precedence: Starscream did loudly complain how he was blinded when his cockpit canopy got covered by Smokescreen's smoke in the G1 episode "Auto Berserk".

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:OK, gotta vent.

These are Cybertronian alt modes, right?

WHY IN THE NAME OF PRIMUS ARE THEIR PASSENGER COMPARTMENTS IF EVERYONE CAN CHANGE AND/OR ATTACH THEMSELVES?

I see it as much more simple. Transformers are sentient being with 2/3 modes, right? In bot mode, they see through their eyes. How are they supposed to see in vehicle mode? What you see as a cockpit, I see simply as the transformer's eyes while in alt mode. In other words, they see through their windshields. It also helps define the front of the vehicle.

Precedence: Starscream did loudly complain how he was blinded when his cockpit canopy got covered by Smokescreen's smoke in the G1 episode "Auto Berserk".

Crap. I opened a rabbit hole...

Flashwave wrote: Sure, but who wants to be strapped to the OUTSIDE of a jet when its going Mach 2? If I were a little dude who turned in to a gun, I’d rather be in the COCKPIT than picking insect icons out of my grille.

Caelus wrote:

Flashwave wrote: Sure, but who wants to be strapped to the OUTSIDE of a jet when its going Mach 2? If I were a little dude who turned in to a gun, I’d rather be in the COCKPIT than picking insect icons out of my grille.

This.

Also, even in a more-or-less Quintesson free context like G1 Marvel or IDW, I figured they had passenger compartments simply because Cybertronians come in a wide variety of sizes, including human-sized. In alternate mode, Sky-Lynx can carry Jetfire, Jetfire can carry Optimus Prime, Optimus Prime can carry Bumblebee, and Bumblebee could carry a *Master. The catch is, there aren't very many bots small enough to get behind Bumblebee's wheel. My assumption as to why there are so few bots smaller than minibot size has always been rather grim, and some of the details in IDW's Functionist Universe seem to support my assumption in that regard.

Caelus wrote:It would have been nice if Shockwave's extra pieces could have been assembled into some sort of laboratory props or playset.

Skritz wrote:I also suspect that, in settings where they can upgrade to bigger and strong bodies most would. You'll notice that the peace-time setting of Animated is swarming in mini-bot sized Bumblebee-like body types. Not a whole lot of reasons to be a colossal lug unless you're doing physical labor. Seems to me like smaller Cybertronians is a peace-time thing which would make sense.

Skritz wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Flashwave wrote: Sure, but who wants to be strapped to the OUTSIDE of a jet when its going Mach 2? If I were a little dude who turned in to a gun, I’d rather be in the COCKPIT than picking insect icons out of my grille.

This.

Also, even in a more-or-less Quintesson free context like G1 Marvel or IDW, I figured they had passenger compartments simply because Cybertronians come in a wide variety of sizes, including human-sized. In alternate mode, Sky-Lynx can carry Jetfire, Jetfire can carry Optimus Prime, Optimus Prime can carry Bumblebee, and Bumblebee could carry a *Master. The catch is, there aren't very many bots small enough to get behind Bumblebee's wheel. My assumption as to why there are so few bots smaller than minibot size has always been rather grim, and some of the details in IDW's Functionist Universe seem to support my assumption in that regard.

I also suspect that, in settings where they can upgrade to bigger and strong bodies most would. You'll notice that the peace-time setting of Animated is swarming in mini-bot sized Bumblebee-like body types. Not a whole lot of reasons to be a colossal lug unless you're doing physical labor. Seems to me like smaller Cybertronians is a peace-time thing which would make sense.

Or, you know, we're all just overthinking it too hard.

Caelus wrote:

Skritz wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Flashwave wrote: Sure, but who wants to be strapped to the OUTSIDE of a jet when its going Mach 2? If I were a little dude who turned in to a gun, I’d rather be in the COCKPIT than picking insect icons out of my grille.

This.

Also, even in a more-or-less Quintesson free context like G1 Marvel or IDW, I figured they had passenger compartments simply because Cybertronians come in a wide variety of sizes, including human-sized. In alternate mode, Sky-Lynx can carry Jetfire, Jetfire can carry Optimus Prime, Optimus Prime can carry Bumblebee, and Bumblebee could carry a *Master. The catch is, there aren't very many bots small enough to get behind Bumblebee's wheel. My assumption as to why there are so few bots smaller than minibot size has always been rather grim, and some of the details in IDW's Functionist Universe seem to support my assumption in that regard.

I also suspect that, in settings where they can upgrade to bigger and strong bodies most would. You'll notice that the peace-time setting of Animated is swarming in mini-bot sized Bumblebee-like body types. Not a whole lot of reasons to be a colossal lug unless you're doing physical labor. Seems to me like smaller Cybertronians is a peace-time thing which would make sense.

Or, you know, we're all just overthinking it too hard.

Bah, that's not overthinking! Overthinking is when you realize that - even without considering alternate modes - the designs of Transformers are so diverse in terms of size, weight, dexterity, mobility, etc., that making antebellum Cybertron's public spaces accessible would have pushed its civil engineers to their limits.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:In other words, they see through their windshields.

Cyberpath wrote:In the series they are generally depicted as larger in vehicle modes, and so they can give fellow bots (even of comparable or larger size) a ride.

Sabrblade wrote:

Cyberpath wrote:In the series they are generally depicted as larger in vehicle modes, and so they can give fellow bots (even of comparable or larger size) a ride.

Only when the plot demanded it, otherwise we'd get cases like these:






And cases like Cosmos saying that, despite his size-changed altmode's interior being able to house Perceptor, Seaspray, and Bumblebee, Optimus Prime himself was too big to fit inside, in "Sea Change".

Cyberpath wrote:And?

Cyberpath wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Cyberpath wrote:In the series they are generally depicted as larger in vehicle modes, and so they can give fellow bots (even of comparable or larger size) a ride.

Only when the plot demanded it, otherwise we'd get cases like these:






And cases like Cosmos saying that, despite his size-changed altmode's interior being able to house Perceptor, Seaspray, and Bumblebee, Optimus Prime himself was too big to fit inside, in "Sea Change".

And?

Sabrblade wrote:

Cyberpath wrote:And?

Meaning that they weren't "generally" depicted as larger in vehicle modes. Only sometimes, when the plot called for it.

Caelus wrote:

Skritz wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Flashwave wrote: Sure, but who wants to be strapped to the OUTSIDE of a jet when its going Mach 2? If I were a little dude who turned in to a gun, I’d rather be in the COCKPIT than picking insect icons out of my grille.

This.

Also, even in a more-or-less Quintesson free context like G1 Marvel or IDW, I figured they had passenger compartments simply because Cybertronians come in a wide variety of sizes, including human-sized. In alternate mode, Sky-Lynx can carry Jetfire, Jetfire can carry Optimus Prime, Optimus Prime can carry Bumblebee, and Bumblebee could carry a *Master. The catch is, there aren't very many bots small enough to get behind Bumblebee's wheel. My assumption as to why there are so few bots smaller than minibot size has always been rather grim, and some of the details in IDW's Functionist Universe seem to support my assumption in that regard.

I also suspect that, in settings where they can upgrade to bigger and strong bodies most would. You'll notice that the peace-time setting of Animated is swarming in mini-bot sized Bumblebee-like body types. Not a whole lot of reasons to be a colossal lug unless you're doing physical labor. Seems to me like smaller Cybertronians is a peace-time thing which would make sense.

Or, you know, we're all just overthinking it too hard.

Bah, that's not overthinking! Overthinking is when you realize that - even without considering alternate modes - the designs of Transformers are so diverse in terms of size, weight, dexterity, mobility, etc., that making antebellum Cybertron's public spaces accessible would have pushed its civil engineers to their limits.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:... No mention of the G1 S3 plot point that Transformers were originally created as nothing more than merchandise?

Bucky wrote:Personally I’m already sold on what I’ve seen from most of this line. While some of the battle damage may be a little too heavy for my tastes on some of the figures, I think the concept itself makes for a nice change of pace.

starrhero wrote:And after all this discussion of why Cybertronians need cockpits & driver's seat, as well as the idea of how much their war would of affected their economy & government, I want to calculate how much a real Cybertronain war would cost & how it would affect normal Cybertronian life. Because if it's anything like Siege & the G1 cartoon make it out to be, even when the war ends, there'd be no winners.

Caelus wrote:

starrhero wrote:And after all this discussion of why Cybertronians need cockpits & driver's seat, as well as the idea of how much their war would of affected their economy & government, I want to calculate how much a real Cybertronain war would cost & how it would affect normal Cybertronian life. Because if it's anything like Siege & the G1 cartoon make it out to be, even when the war ends, there'd be no winners.

If you want an analogue to start with, you might research the Battle for Stalingrad in WWII - it has a lot of the earmarks of warfare on Cybertron - prolonged battle of attrition in an urban/industrial environment, with lots of CQC and small arms combat, and (on the soviet side) a very, very large portion of the populace with minimal combat experience called to arms against an especially ruthless, competent enemy.

Of course, if you're wanting to look at the larger impact on Cybertron, the obvious thing to look at is the U.S. Civil War, but outside of being a civil war with minimal involvement from outside of the conflict, there's really not many similarities.

Considering the fact that, by the time the cartoon started, it seems like the planet was largely drained of energy. Despite this, however, a variety of Cybertronians lived on the planet and they didn't seem to be "starving" so there must have been some functioning means of Energon production. This is further supported by the fact that, during much of season three of the old cartoon there was a fairly large population residing on the planet so there must have been means to produce a fairly large quantity of energy, though there was still an energy shortage of some sort. The problem with this is that, if this is the case, the Decepticons shouldn't have had so much difficulty remaining on the planet or winning the war through a war of attrition. Therefore it would make sense if, during the course of the war, many Energon production facilities were destroyed by one side or the other to stop the other from having access to it, and the these were likely repaired or rebuilt by Shockwave during the first two seasons of the show where he spent a long period of not much else to do.

Wireless_Phantom wrote:

Caelus wrote:

starrhero wrote:And after all this discussion of why Cybertronians need cockpits & driver's seat, as well as the idea of how much their war would of affected their economy & government, I want to calculate how much a real Cybertronain war would cost & how it would affect normal Cybertronian life. Because if it's anything like Siege & the G1 cartoon make it out to be, even when the war ends, there'd be no winners.

If you want an analogue to start with, you might research the Battle for Stalingrad in WWII - it has a lot of the earmarks of warfare on Cybertron - prolonged battle of attrition in an urban/industrial environment, with lots of CQC and small arms combat, and (on the soviet side) a very, very large portion of the populace with minimal combat experience called to arms against an especially ruthless, competent enemy.

Of course, if you're wanting to look at the larger impact on Cybertron, the obvious thing to look at is the U.S. Civil War, but outside of being a civil war with minimal involvement from outside of the conflict, there's really not many similarities.

Considering the fact that, by the time the cartoon started, it seems like the planet was largely drained of energy. Despite this, however, a variety of Cybertronians lived on the planet and they didn't seem to be "starving" so there must have been some functioning means of Energon production. This is further supported by the fact that, during much of season three of the old cartoon there was a fairly large population residing on the planet so there must have been means to produce a fairly large quantity of energy, though there was still an energy shortage of some sort. The problem with this is that, if this is the case, the Decepticons shouldn't have had so much difficulty remaining on the planet or winning the war through a war of attrition. Therefore it would make sense if, during the course of the war, many Energon production facilities were destroyed by one side or the other to stop the other from having access to it, and the these were likely repaired or rebuilt by Shockwave during the first two seasons of the show where he spent a long period of not much else to do.

Skritz wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:... No mention of the G1 S3 plot point that Transformers were originally created as nothing more than merchandise?

No, because in the end the mythological/magical 'Primus did it' origin won out in popularity in the mind of fans, writers and fans-who-became-writers.

starrhero wrote:

Wireless_Phantom wrote:

Caelus wrote:

starrhero wrote:And after all this discussion of why Cybertronians need cockpits & driver's seat, as well as the idea of how much their war would of affected their economy & government, I want to calculate how much a real Cybertronain war would cost & how it would affect normal Cybertronian life. Because if it's anything like Siege & the G1 cartoon make it out to be, even when the war ends, there'd be no winners.

If you want an analogue to start with, you might research the Battle for Stalingrad in WWII - it has a lot of the earmarks of warfare on Cybertron - prolonged battle of attrition in an urban/industrial environment, with lots of CQC and small arms combat, and (on the soviet side) a very, very large portion of the populace with minimal combat experience called to arms against an especially ruthless, competent enemy.

Of course, if you're wanting to look at the larger impact on Cybertron, the obvious thing to look at is the U.S. Civil War, but outside of being a civil war with minimal involvement from outside of the conflict, there's really not many similarities.

Considering the fact that, by the time the cartoon started, it seems like the planet was largely drained of energy. Despite this, however, a variety of Cybertronians lived on the planet and they didn't seem to be "starving" so there must have been some functioning means of Energon production. This is further supported by the fact that, during much of season three of the old cartoon there was a fairly large population residing on the planet so there must have been means to produce a fairly large quantity of energy, though there was still an energy shortage of some sort. The problem with this is that, if this is the case, the Decepticons shouldn't have had so much difficulty remaining on the planet or winning the war through a war of attrition. Therefore it would make sense if, during the course of the war, many Energon production facilities were destroyed by one side or the other to stop the other from having access to it, and the these were likely repaired or rebuilt by Shockwave during the first two seasons of the show where he spent a long period of not much else to do.

It is very possible the & were destroying Energon producing & refining factories, as well as building other stations & factories on nearby planets & moons, such as Moonbase 1 & 2. That would allow each faction to receive resources from an indirect source. Speaking of the Moonbases, we also have to consider the 20 year timeskip in the series between season 2 in 1985 and The Transformers: The Movie which took place in 2005. In that set of time, the were able to push the off of Cybertron & had full control, but the war was still waging, it's just that the had an advantage. Though I kind of don't want to go any farther from that and say the Battle of Autobot City was the end of the war with an Autobot victory. The main reason why is because... well, Unicron. I couldn't even fathom ANY event that was even slightly like the events of the battle against Unicron in the climax of the film.

Keeping things on track with the main topic of this thread, being the WfC Siege toyline, I wonder how certain things in the toyline could be used in a tactical advantage against the enemy. For example: How is Skytread's ability to split into two different vehicle modes any more beneficial to the ? Battletrap was at least two robots who basically powerlinked together to become more powerful, but I couldn't see much of an advantage with just two vehicles. And what of Weaponizers? Granted, more firepower is very good for anyone in a war like this, yet, if one of the parts of say, Cog, was damaged or lost, what would happen to Cog? He theoretically wouldn't be able to function properly anymore, especially if it was a part of his torso, & would have to be decommissioned.

Wow... we definitely went in depth with this.

Skytread's ability to split is helpful in other ways compared to BattleTrap. While Battletrap has robot modes for his components, neither of them have weapons in the practical sense. Their vehicle modes are also relatively small and unarmed. I think this makes him more effective as a scout. Meanwhile Skytread's alternate modes, though lacking robot modes, are slightly larger and both have the capacity to use weapons, making him more useful in a combat scenario. Maybe that was why Battletrap has two robot modes. He was modified to have two separate robot forms at the cost of his weaponry due to down-sizing and power regulation, but was better for recon as a result, since he could act as two spies who always knew what the other could see without worry of transmitter signals being picked up. He might even function as part of a two bot group with Skytread who attack smaller installations on their own away from the front lines. Alternatively the two could both be early prototypes by Shockwave to create functioning combiners, using both of them to see if the two components lacking robot modes helps the combined form of the components function better or not.

In regards to Cog it's simple. Cog is made up of Gasket and Gromet, who are both drones controlled directly by Fortress Maximus (likewise with Brunt and Trypticon) and so if any of his parts are lost or damaged they can be replaced or repaired without much worry since Cog doesn't technically have a mind of his own.

carytheone wrote:So I guess that Ultra Magnus is not only the "hammer guy" now but also the "butt flap guy"?

First-Aid wrote:

carytheone wrote:So I guess that Ultra Magnus is not only the "hammer guy" now but also the "butt flap guy"?

OK, Now I want to watch Brendan Fraser's "George of the Jungle" movie....

It occurs to me we still haven't seen anyone use the guns on Magnus' legs.

Emerje wrote:
Anyway, as Siege goes, I'm probably going to swap Ultra Magnus' missiles even if they will restrict articulation, they just don't look right sticking up over his shoulders.

Emerje

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Bucky wrote:Personally I’m already sold on what I’ve seen from most of this line. While some of the battle damage may be a little too heavy for my tastes on some of the figures, I think the concept itself makes for a nice change of pace.

The war-worn paint apps are really hit and miss for me. They look very effective in the CG renderings and even on the hand-painted models shown off at some of the trade shows. However, when seeing them on the "finalized" actual retail products, they're very underwhelming. Instead of looking like scratches in paint and wear in metal, it comes off more like dirty splotches of mud. Unfortunately, we're probably way too far along now for any changes to be made in production. On the bright side, though, these "weathered" paint apps solve on problem with collecting Transformers toys, finding the ones with the best paint jobs! Now, any little paint bleeds, errors, or imperfections can be written off as "battle damage."