Official Transformers Bumblebee Movie Poster and #SDCC2018 Event Images #BumblebeeMovie

crash8burnt wrote:Someone said 'What's the big deal if it is Blitzwing and not Starscream.' Well, it is more than a big deal as many fans grew up in the G1 era and would like a G1 movie. There were all the hypes at first when Bee is going to be a beetle and with Prowl being probably in the movie. After the 1st trailer with the pic of the jet, people are so excited as that is a very nice representation of G1 Starscream.
However, I'm already scratching my head when Shatter and Dropkick are announced.. How the heck do these punks fit in? Well, alright, since Knight wanted a car chase, which is a good idea, and there weren't many cons that are on wheels, so fine. At least, we got Starscream. SS Vs BB is the hype. But there is no way you can pitch BB with Blitzwing and create a smooth G1 story which can follow through.
Create another story to have Blitzwing to face off the likes of Springer and Sandstorm, and leave him out of this movie. Bring in Starscream. This jet fits SS well. It is a good move to move away from those ugly looking insect-head transformers from Bayverse. I can still tolerate with BB's head as Knight does not want to stray too far off the image from the previous movies, even though his face still gives me nightmares that looks like a old grandmother sucking on a pacifier. I was very disappointed that Knight did not want to change the look of it. But if SS is not in the film, I find that Knight could also be losing the plot and it could really lead to the demise of the transformers franchise.

A movie with great promise, but in the end, with a cast which will not leave a nice taste on many people's mouth.

Well here is the thing.

G1 is dead


It has been since the line ended back in the 1990s, everything that has come afterwards has been it's own thing.

Now there have been some series that have used G1 like designs for it's characters like Animated and the Idw comics but the thing is tgat isn't G1 either.

No matter what the reboot would be like, no matter ehat year it takes place in, no matter what 80s vehicles it uses, it will never be the G1 masterpiece fans demand.

So all this movie could ever be is a good movie, it was never not will ever be a G1 movie.

Deadput wrote:

crash8burnt wrote:Someone said 'What's the big deal if it is Blitzwing and not Starscream.' Well, it is more than a big deal as many fans grew up in the G1 era and would like a G1 movie. There were all the hypes at first when Bee is going to be a beetle and with Prowl being probably in the movie. After the 1st trailer with the pic of the jet, people are so excited as that is a very nice representation of G1 Starscream.
However, I'm already scratching my head when Shatter and Dropkick are announced.. How the heck do these punks fit in? Well, alright, since Knight wanted a car chase, which is a good idea, and there weren't many cons that are on wheels, so fine. At least, we got Starscream. SS Vs BB is the hype. But there is no way you can pitch BB with Blitzwing and create a smooth G1 story which can follow through.
Create another story to have Blitzwing to face off the likes of Springer and Sandstorm, and leave him out of this movie. Bring in Starscream. This jet fits SS well. It is a good move to move away from those ugly looking insect-head transformers from Bayverse. I can still tolerate with BB's head as Knight does not want to stray too far off the image from the previous movies, even though his face still gives me nightmares that looks like a old grandmother sucking on a pacifier. I was very disappointed that Knight did not want to change the look of it. But if SS is not in the film, I find that Knight could also be losing the plot and it could really lead to the demise of the transformers franchise.

A movie with great promise, but in the end, with a cast which will not leave a nice taste on many people's mouth.

Well here is the thing.

G1 is dead


It has been since the line ended back in the 1990s, everything that has come afterwards has been it's own thing.

Now there have been some series that have used G1 like designs for it's characters like Animated and the Idw comics but the thing is tgat isn't G1 either.

No matter what the reboot would be like, no matter ehat year it takes place in, no matter what 80s vehicles it uses, it will never be the G1 masterpiece fans demand.

So all this movie could ever be is a good movie, it was never not will ever be a G1 movie.

I didn't ask for it to be G1. I just wanted Starscream to be part of this. and that jet looks 100% like Starscream. I'll wait for the DVD release as I have the last two movies - unless things change at a later time that piques my interest in the bumblebee movie again.

You wanted him to be Starscream even given the rumoured fate?

im baffled at the blitzwing decision considering Ramjet is RIGHT there looking the part to a tee as much as starscream does.

TBH im thinking theyre trolling us.

This could be a similar situation to devestator/brawl in the first movie. I mean looks aside, which sounds better? Ramjet or blitzwing.

ZeroWolf wrote:This could be a similar situation to devestator/brawl in the first movie. I mean looks aside, which sounds better? Ramjet or blitzwing.

partholon wrote:im baffled at the blitzwing decision considering Ramjet is RIGHT there looking the part to a tee as much as starscream does.

TBH im thinking theyre trolling us.

Or it's just another nameslap because that's how the franchise operates?

Who cares if it's Starscream if he (possible fate from people who saw early screenings) dies in the movie?

I'm just offering alternate theories I mean if that hidden information is correct then they could have just called him droney mc'drone face...though that wouldnt sell many toys

Deadput wrote:

crash8burnt wrote:Someone said 'What's the big deal if it is Blitzwing and not Starscream.' Well, it is more than a big deal as many fans grew up in the G1 era and would like a G1 movie. There were all the hypes at first when Bee is going to be a beetle and with Prowl being probably in the movie. After the 1st trailer with the pic of the jet, people are so excited as that is a very nice representation of G1 Starscream.
However, I'm already scratching my head when Shatter and Dropkick are announced.. How the heck do these punks fit in? Well, alright, since Knight wanted a car chase, which is a good idea, and there weren't many cons that are on wheels, so fine. At least, we got Starscream. SS Vs BB is the hype. But there is no way you can pitch BB with Blitzwing and create a smooth G1 story which can follow through.
Create another story to have Blitzwing to face off the likes of Springer and Sandstorm, and leave him out of this movie. Bring in Starscream. This jet fits SS well. It is a good move to move away from those ugly looking insect-head transformers from Bayverse. I can still tolerate with BB's head as Knight does not want to stray too far off the image from the previous movies, even though his face still gives me nightmares that looks like a old grandmother sucking on a pacifier. I was very disappointed that Knight did not want to change the look of it. But if SS is not in the film, I find that Knight could also be losing the plot and it could really lead to the demise of the transformers franchise.

A movie with great promise, but in the end, with a cast which will not leave a nice taste on many people's mouth.

Well here is the thing.

G1 is dead


It has been since the line ended back in the 1990s, everything that has come afterwards has been it's own thing.

Now there have been some series that have used G1 like designs for it's characters like Animated and the Idw comics but the thing is tgat isn't G1 either.

No matter what the reboot would be like, no matter ehat year it takes place in, no matter what 80s vehicles it uses, it will never be the G1 masterpiece fans demand.

So all this movie could ever be is a good movie, it was never not will ever be a G1 movie.

This guy gets it I have been saying it for years when people complain bots don’t big blocky and ironhide isn’t van, I have been sayin it different way for years people don’t most movie designs but they prime as firtruck, and ironhide as hummer with radar dish for head in transformer energon no one complained, same with megatron as jet in that series,. Shockwave and grimlock never ever had mouth in cartoons not all bots need have human faces they are aliens from another planet not from earth

So the girl, Hailee, I had no idea was the same girl from True Grit.
She was phenomenal in that. Now I'm even more invested in this.

ZeroWolf wrote:You wanted him to be Starscream even given the rumoured fate?

To be frank, Starscream always dies so its no skin off my back in that regard - I don't like it, but I am used to it.

I just saw a great marriage of two concepts - which got me excited. Finally the intricate realism of a live action transformer, with aspects drawn from the cartoon. face, colouration, wings, and maybe two sticky-uppy things (or not) at the shoulder. (I can't tell in the original trailer if those are there) but there were wing-stripes, the colours, the face - its Starscream. There is enough there for me to recognise him. with exception to machine wars and BW2, most series have maintained some character qualities to the Character. This was the first time the Movies had a character that had recognisable characteristics - and I am being told its not him.

That character was always the Starscream I had hoped we'd get.

If they are purposefully trolling the potential viewers, then I am not impressed. I'll wait and see. If its screamer I will try to see it in theater. if its not, I will pick it up when ever it gets released.

People up in arms about the starscream/blitzwing thing have totally over looked that the director said that the female lead gives him the name bumblebee. That's actually embarrassing. I won't bother with this movie knowing that.

Prowl4 wrote:People up in arms about the starscream/blitzwing thing have totally over looked that the director said that the female lead gives him the name bumblebee. That's actually embarrassing. I won't bother with this movie knowing that.

So glad to have you join the discussion as always.

Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:People up in arms about the starscream/blitzwing thing have totally over looked that the director said that the female lead gives him the name bumblebee. That's actually embarrassing. I won't bother with this movie knowing that.

So glad to have you join the discussion as always.

What do you mean? Surely it's a horrid affront to have characters be... given names in the film! Especially, especially, a name as serious and extraterrestrial as Bumblebee! You mean to tell me a human is more likely to come up with that name for a small yellow robot than an alien lifeform who's never even known about Earth up to this point?! Puh-lease.

Sunstar wrote:stuff

Your sig, it's too big. Go read the rules and fix it.

Otherwise I fix it.

People get uppity when I fix things of theirs ...

Sunstar wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:You wanted him to be Starscream even given the rumoured fate?

To be frank, Starscream always dies so its no skin off my back in that regard - I don't like it, but I am used to it.

I just saw a great marriage of two concepts - which got me excited. Finally the intricate realism of a live action transformer, with aspects drawn from the cartoon. face, colouration, wings, and maybe two sticky-uppy things (or not) at the shoulder. (I can't tell in the original trailer if those are there) but there were wing-stripes, the colours, the face - its Starscream. There is enough there for me to recognise him. with exception to machine wars and BW2, most series have maintained some character qualities to the Character. This was the first time the Movies had a character that had recognisable characteristics - and I am being told its not him.

That character was always the Starscream I had hoped we'd get.

If they are purposefully trolling the potential viewers, then I am not impressed. I'll wait and see. If its screamer I will try to see it in theater. if its not, I will pick it up when ever it gets released.

Thanks for the reply I do think that there was no intentional trolling going on, it could easily be that they liked the design but knew that screamer couldn't die at that point in the timeline so went the seeker route and slapped a impressive sounding name on it.

Sunstar wrote:

Deadput wrote:

crash8burnt wrote:Someone said 'What's the big deal if it is Blitzwing and not Starscream.' Well, it is more than a big deal as many fans grew up in the G1 era and would like a G1 movie. There were all the hypes at first when Bee is going to be a beetle and with Prowl being probably in the movie. After the 1st trailer with the pic of the jet, people are so excited as that is a very nice representation of G1 Starscream.
However, I'm already scratching my head when Shatter and Dropkick are announced.. How the heck do these punks fit in? Well, alright, since Knight wanted a car chase, which is a good idea, and there weren't many cons that are on wheels, so fine. At least, we got Starscream. SS Vs BB is the hype. But there is no way you can pitch BB with Blitzwing and create a smooth G1 story which can follow through.
Create another story to have Blitzwing to face off the likes of Springer and Sandstorm, and leave him out of this movie. Bring in Starscream. This jet fits SS well. It is a good move to move away from those ugly looking insect-head transformers from Bayverse. I can still tolerate with BB's head as Knight does not want to stray too far off the image from the previous movies, even though his face still gives me nightmares that looks like a old grandmother sucking on a pacifier. I was very disappointed that Knight did not want to change the look of it. But if SS is not in the film, I find that Knight could also be losing the plot and it could really lead to the demise of the transformers franchise.

A movie with great promise, but in the end, with a cast which will not leave a nice taste on many people's mouth.

Well here is the thing.

G1 is dead


It has been since the line ended back in the 1990s, everything that has come afterwards has been it's own thing.

Now there have been some series that have used G1 like designs for it's characters like Animated and the Idw comics but the thing is tgat isn't G1 either.

No matter what the reboot would be like, no matter ehat year it takes place in, no matter what 80s vehicles it uses, it will never be the G1 masterpiece fans demand.

So all this movie could ever be is a good movie, it was never not will ever be a G1 movie.

I didn't ask for it to be G1. I just wanted Starscream to be part of this. and that jet looks 100% like Starscream. I'll wait for the DVD release as I have the last two movies - unless things change at a later time that piques my interest in the bumblebee movie again.

That’s right, u hit the nail! Let me rephrase my points-

- The jet has got a very G1 modernised Starscream look. So Knight should go with SS, not Blitzwing.

- All successful franchise films start with a cast with strong characters, not weak ones. In Transformers, strong character bots like Optimus Prime against Megatron , and Bumblebee against Starscream, will make it a hit among fans. After which, then u introduce other fringe characters to expand the story line. BB against Blitzwing or Dropkick or Shatter will not make the cut. These guys are sidekicks.

- A KNIGHT will not have the integrity to bash up a lady. Shatter..who? Seriously? Would u want to see a hero like Bee bashing up a girl? C’mon, give us a good healthy start of having Bee against 3 recognisable cons. Bring in the ladies in the next episode.. but not Shatter..who? A female bot (Arcee?) against a female con (Nightbird?). Don’t further mess up a fantasy world when our real world is already very messed up.

I am not asking for a G1 storyline, just presentable looking bots that resemble their G1 counterparts. Enough of Bee looking like a ‘granny sucking pacifier’ and insect-fested ugly looking bots. The initial speculations, such as having G1 characters, started really well (like falling in love for the 1st time). A pity it ended in a wrong way (like being dumped). I still believe it can be a good movie with good character development, but a pity Knight has picked the wrong bots which will not leave a deep impression on many of us.

But if rumours are to be believed (recent reveals are trending that way) then the jet is not long for the world, where as SS is killed by Sam Whitwicky as seen in dotm. This movie is being billed as a prequel to the Bayverse movies, so having the jet be ss just doesn't work for story reasons.

Also let's just see what happens in the movie. Shatter could be taken out by sector seven at the end.

crash8burnt wrote:
- All successful franchise films start with a cast with strong characters, not weak ones. In Transformers, strong character bots like Optimus Prime against Megatron , and Bumblebee against Starscream, will make it a hit among fans. After which, then u introduce other fringe characters to expand the story line. BB against Blitzwing or Dropkick or Shatter will not make the cut. These guys are sidekicks.

Well this franchise isn't even "starting" since even though it's a prequel this is still the 6'th movie regardless, we already got most of the big deal Transformers in the last 5 films. (Only other big character I can think of that hasn't been introduced in the past 5 films is Ultra Magnus, anyone else isn't as recognizable)

I think these guys being "nobodies" is sort of the point, it's Bee by himself he has to fight people at his power level which is even tougher since he is not his power house future self, as it is with 4 Different Decepticons in this film 3 of which are flyers and two of those being triple changers so already I don't see how realistically Bee can fight these guys fair and square without getting crushed.

I'd rather we get a good movie then shove a bunch of characters just for the sake of having specific characters in the movie.

Plus we always need to make up new Decepticons in general because they were always sort of screwed on the numbers front with most of the cast in previous media being just the main leaders like Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave and Shockwave with one or two other guys.

It would be really really dumb if it was Bee VS any of those guys because the only way to make a film where Bee doesn't get crushed is to have the cons be very incompetent in general, characters like Megatron have no business being in a spinoff prequel like this, I don't believe any of the high ranking guys have nothing else better to do then to pay attention to one small Autobot.

crash8burnt wrote:- A KNIGHT will not have the integrity to bash up a lady. Shatter..who? Seriously? Would u want to see a hero like Bee bashing up a girl? C’mon, give us a good healthy start of having Bee against 3 recognisable cons. Bring in the ladies in the next episode.. but not Shatter..who? A female bot (Arcee?) against a female con (Nightbird?). Don’t further mess up a fantasy world when our real world is already very messed up.

I mean that hasn't stopped Bay from killing the Arcee triplets and the Pretender chick in ROTF.

Plus I don't think there really has been hesitance in general with male on female (Or vice versa) violence in the franchise, more so due to the fact these are robots and not humans fighting so by default they can get away with a lot more stuff.

And I don't think Shatter's any sort of damsel that needs to be held back against, she's a villain who is hunting Bumblebee and doesn't even look that feminine in general so I don't think there is going to be any holding back against her.

Last thing, why does it need to be a designated fembot vs fembot fight? Wouldn't it be better to have a few characters who so happens to be a female then just to have a couple of token females with the only purpose to fight each other? Because the latter is rather limiting on story telling potential and is also kinda stereotypical, old and bland by now.

Meh, women wanted absolute equality. So girl, grab your end of the sofa and climb the stairs with me. Then, war come in and have your ass drafted in the army along with me. And finally let's DIE in a GRUESOME way together in the frontlines!

I think shatter will be the one dragging Dropkick around in this

Isn't this the same incident like when they named Shockwave in DOTM Blitzwing? Anyway, I still think its Starscream. Unless it turns out to be a conehead-less Ramjet, which I hope doesn't happen.

Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:People up in arms about the starscream/blitzwing thing have totally over looked that the director said that the female lead gives him the name bumblebee. That's actually embarrassing. I won't bother with this movie knowing that.

So glad to have you join the discussion as always.

Hey hun thanks for being my #1 fan.

Qwan wrote:

Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:People up in arms about the starscream/blitzwing thing have totally over looked that the director said that the female lead gives him the name bumblebee. That's actually embarrassing. I won't bother with this movie knowing that.

So glad to have you join the discussion as always.

What do you mean? Surely it's a horrid affront to have characters be... given names in the film! Especially, especially, a name as serious and extraterrestrial as Bumblebee! You mean to tell me a human is more likely to come up with that name for a small yellow robot than an alien lifeform who's never even known about Earth up to this point?! Puh-lease.

Silly writing will attract silly fans.

How's it silly writing though? And how do you define silly fans? Also compared to the last bay films writing like that is a solid improvement

ZeroWolf wrote:How's it silly writing though? And how do you define silly fans? Also compared to the last bay films writing like that is a solid improvement

It's messy and inconsistent with previous material. He has the name bumblebee from his pre Earth days as do the other transformers especially in this continuity. Now the director has heavily messed with that in an incredibly stupid way. It's very silly especially given the point was already made in TF1 with the nbe1/ Megatron debate by Simmons and Sam. The transformers name themselves or are christened on Cybertron when made which is what the series has said. I miss Bay.

Here's the thing, inconsistently aside, this origin of the name makes more sense. I highly doubt they have Bumblebees on cybertron also Travis looks like he's got a better grasp of the source material then bay did...who only bothered to do more because of money. I know bay wasn't solely to blame for all the failures with the live action movies, but he still played his part...especially with Revenge of the Fallen, as he wrote some of that thanks to the writers strike

bee was named by the human? I couldn't care less. I always interpreted their names as english translations because their own language is hard to pronounce or interpret.

I really cannot give a rats aft about bee at this stage - he is way over used and overrated. There were far more interesting bots that came and went, Jazz would have been a far more interesting character to have kept around. Ironhide or even Ratchet. I'd prefer any of them because htey had a lot more character to them, than bumblebee. I can't stand the character - which is why I am not interested in seeing a movie about him. I will buy the DVD to add to my collection. I will watch the movie. I might even like the movie when I see it. But as it stands, I consider it a B movie - which unless it really piques my interest sometime between now and release, its no longer on my list of must-watch flicks.

Prowl4 wrote:It's messy and inconsistent with previous material. He has the name bumblebee from his pre Earth days as do the other transformers especially in this continuity.

How do you know? We never saw Bee on Cybertron prior to his coming to Earth in any of the first five films. The first time we were told his name was by Optimus in the first movie well after Bumblebee had already been on Earth for a time that was unknown to anyone back in 2007.

If you're referring to the pre-Earth material that was the IDW movie prequel comics and the Ghosts of yesterday novel, AOE and TLK retconned those out of relevance with everything released after DOTM.

As such, there are essentially two different main timelines for the Movieverse. One that comprises of just the first three films and all the tie-in IDW comics and novels, which comes to a screeching halt with DOTM; and a second different timeline that contains all of the films but none of the tie-in material written for the first trilogy, and which is still ongoing to this day. It is this second timeline that the Bumblebee film is a part of.

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:It's messy and inconsistent with previous material. He has the name bumblebee from his pre Earth days as do the other transformers especially in this continuity.

How do you know? We never saw Bee on Cybertron prior to his coming to Earth in any of the first five films. The first time we were told his name was by Optimus in the first movie well after Bumblebee had already been on Earth for a time that was unknown to anyone back in 2007.

If you're referring to the pre-Earth material that was the IDW movie prequel comics and the Ghosts of yesterday novel, AOE and TLK retconned those out of relevance with everything released after DOTM.

As such, there are essentially two different main timelines for the Movieverse. One that comprises of just the first three films and all the tie-in IDW comics and novels, which comes to a screeching halt with DOTM; and a second different timeline that contains all of the films but none of the tie-in material written for the first trilogy, and which is still ongoing to this day. It is this second timeline that the Bumblebee film is a part of.

How'd they retcon everything out of existence?

ZeroWolf wrote:Here's the thing, inconsistently aside, this origin of the name makes more sense. I highly doubt they have Bumblebees on cybertron also Travis looks like he's got a better grasp of the source material then bay did...who only bothered to do more because of money. I know bay wasn't solely to blame for all the failures with the live action movies, but he still played his part...especially with Revenge of the Fallen, as he wrote some of that thanks to the writers strike

Yikes.

Prowl4 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:It's messy and inconsistent with previous material. He has the name bumblebee from his pre Earth days as do the other transformers especially in this continuity.

How do you know? We never saw Bee on Cybertron prior to his coming to Earth in any of the first five films. The first time we were told his name was by Optimus in the first movie well after Bumblebee had already been on Earth for a time that was unknown to anyone back in 2007.

If you're referring to the pre-Earth material that was the IDW movie prequel comics and the Ghosts of yesterday novel, AOE and TLK retconned those out of relevance with everything released after DOTM.

As such, there are essentially two different main timelines for the Movieverse. One that comprises of just the first three films and all the tie-in IDW comics and novels, which comes to a screeching halt with DOTM; and a second different timeline that contains all of the films but none of the tie-in material written for the first trilogy, and which is still ongoing to this day. It is this second timeline that the Bumblebee film is a part of.

How'd they retcon everything out of existence?

For one, TLK depicted Bee as having already been on Earth in WWII when the IDW Movie Prequel put his initial arrival on Earth in 2003. And Ghosts of Yesterday established that he hadn't yet reached Earth by 1969, over two decades after WWII ended.

And AOE ignored the AllSpark creation origin as it was detailed in the tie-in comics for ROTF and DOTM, instead crediting the creation of the Transformers to a mysterious alien race known only as "the Creators". TLK seemed like it was gonna expand upon this with Quintessa, but then that movie went and called her "The Great Deceiver", leaving the true identity of the Creators still an enigma, but one that still overrides the ROTF/DOTM comics' AllSpark creation origin.

Ergo, those comics and novels have no ties to the post-DOTM films, as those films were made with zero regard to any of the tie-in material (as were the first three films as well, but whose tie-in material had authors like John Barber who made everything work and fit together. Whereas no such treatment was made for any of the tie-in material made for the post-DOTM films. Even, the current Bumblebee movie tie-in comics from IDW, written by John Barber no less, make zero attempts to fit the post-DOTM films with the pre-DOTM tie-in material, with Barber just running with the retcons established by AOE and TLK as they are).

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:It's messy and inconsistent with previous material. He has the name bumblebee from his pre Earth days as do the other transformers especially in this continuity.

How do you know? We never saw Bee on Cybertron prior to his coming to Earth in any of the first five films. The first time we were told his name was by Optimus in the first movie well after Bumblebee had already been on Earth for a time that was unknown to anyone back in 2007.

If you're referring to the pre-Earth material that was the IDW movie prequel comics and the Ghosts of yesterday novel, AOE and TLK retconned those out of relevance with everything released after DOTM.

As such, there are essentially two different main timelines for the Movieverse. One that comprises of just the first three films and all the tie-in IDW comics and novels, which comes to a screeching halt with DOTM; and a second different timeline that contains all of the films but none of the tie-in material written for the first trilogy, and which is still ongoing to this day. It is this second timeline that the Bumblebee film is a part of.

How'd they retcon everything out of existence?

For one, TLK depicted Bee as having already been on Earth in WWII when the IDW Movie Prequel put his initial arrival on Earth in 2003. And Ghosts of Yesterday established that he hadn't yet reached Earth by 1969, over two decades after WWII ended.

And AOE ignored the AllSpark creation origin as it was detailed in the tie-in comics for ROTF and DOTM, instead crediting the creation of the Transformers to a mysterious alien race known only as "the Creators". TLK seemed like it was gonna expand upon this with Quintessa, but then that movie went and called her "The Great Deceiver", leaving the true identity of the Creators still an enigma, but one that still overrides the ROTF/DOTM comics' AllSpark creation origin.

Ergo, those comics and novels have no ties to the post-DOTM films, as those films were made with zero regard to any of the tie-in material (as were the first three films as well, but whose tie-in material had authors like John Barber who made everything work and fit together. Whereas no such treatment was made for any of the tie-in material made for the post-DOTM films. Even, the current Bumblebee movie tie-in comics from IDW, written by John Barber no less, make zero attempts to fit the post-DOTM films with the pre-DOTM tie-in material, with Barber just running with the retcons established by AOE and TLK as they are).

TLK made it clear that the transformers had been coming and going from earth which was confirmed in ROTF so it does really tie to TLK and the transformers are shown to be present during pre civilization and the medieval times coming and going. Bee is present in WW2 on Earth and is known as bumblebee by that point which can't be denied given that Hot Rod is actually with him. The WW2 events are before this spin off movie.

Well in the case of the all spark and quintessa we actually see the all spark create life and restore bodies through that first movie and subsequently twice in ROTF. Quintessa in TLK was either cut or the budget was cut on her and her role reduced but it's not too much of a stretch to say she possesses mind control like abilities which we see on Optimus and Megatron. I'd like to know the original intention or story to her role.

Prowl4 wrote:TLK made it clear that the transformers had been coming and going from earth which was confirmed in ROTF so it does really tie to TLK and the transformers are shown to be present during pre civilization and the medieval times coming and going. Bee is present in WW2 on Earth and is known as bumblebee by that point which can't be denied given that Hot Rod is actually with him. The WW2 events are before this spin off movie.

TLK never indicated that they were "coming and going". Only that they had been coming to Earth for a long time, and specifically put Autobots whom the IDW tie-ins said only first came to Earth in the 21st Century on Earth in various historical points.

And the WWII flashback never said outright that Bumblebee had that name at that point.

Plus, neither of us have seen the new movie yet. For all we know, Charlie could be thinking up an appropriate name that, coincidence of all coincidences, just so happened to be his actual name. We can't say anything about the matter either way until the movie comes out.

Prowl4 wrote:Well in the case of the all spark and quintessa we actually see the all spark create life and restore bodies through that first movie and subsequently twice in ROTF. Quintessa in TLK was either cut or the budget was cut on her and her role reduced but it's not too much of a stretch to say she possesses mind control like abilities which we see on Optimus and Megatron. I'd like to know the original intention or story to her role.

All we know is that she isn't one of those Creator aliens whose hand we see in AOE, and whom the AllSpark has yet to be affiliated with in any official capacity.

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:TLK made it clear that the transformers had been coming and going from earth which was confirmed in ROTF so it does really tie to TLK and the transformers are shown to be present during pre civilization and the medieval times coming and going. Bee is present in WW2 on Earth and is known as bumblebee by that point which can't be denied given that Hot Rod is actually with him. The WW2 events are before this spin off movie.

TLK never indicated that they were "coming and going". Only that they had been coming to Earth, and specifically put Autobots whom the IDW tie-ins said only first came to Earth in the 21st Century on Earth in various historical points.

And the WWII flashback never said outright that Bumblebee had that name at that point.

Plus, neither of have seen the new movie yet. For all we know, Charlie could be thinking up an appropriate name that, coincidence of all coincidences, just so happened to be his actual name. We can't say anything about the matter either way until the movie comes out.

Prowl4 wrote:Well in the case of the all spark and quintessa we actually see the all spark create life and restore bodies through that first movie and subsequently twice in ROTF. Quintessa in TLK was either cut or the budget was cut on her and her role reduced but it's not too much of a stretch to say she possesses mind control like abilities which we see on Optimus and Megatron. I'd like to know the original intention or story to her role.

All we know is that she isn't one of those Creator aliens whose hand we see in AOE, and whom the AllSpark has yet to be affiliated with in any official capacity.

I'm really starting to hope this is a soft reboot at this point because the continuity is so unnecessarily convoluted by now I haven't even bothered to remember most of this.

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:TLK made it clear that the transformers had been coming and going from earth which was confirmed in ROTF so it does really tie to TLK and the transformers are shown to be present during pre civilization and the medieval times coming and going. Bee is present in WW2 on Earth and is known as bumblebee by that point which can't be denied given that Hot Rod is actually with him. The WW2 events are before this spin off movie.

TLK never indicated that they were "coming and going". Only that they had been coming to Earth, and specifically put Autobots whom the IDW tie-ins said only first came to Earth in the 21st Century on Earth in various historical points.

And the WWII flashback never said outright that Bumblebee had that name at that point.

Plus, neither of have seen the new movie yet. For all we know, Charlie could be thinking up an appropriate name that, coincidence of all coincidences, just so happened to be his actual name. We can't say anything about the matter either way until the movie comes out.

Prowl4 wrote:Well in the case of the all spark and quintessa we actually see the all spark create life and restore bodies through that first movie and subsequently twice in ROTF. Quintessa in TLK was either cut or the budget was cut on her and her role reduced but it's not too much of a stretch to say she possesses mind control like abilities which we see on Optimus and Megatron. I'd like to know the original intention or story to her role.

All we know is that she isn't one of those Creator aliens whose hand we see in AOE, and whom the AllSpark has yet to be affiliated with in any official capacity.

TLK did indicate they came and went as depicted from the pictures, murals and statues in The Lord's Manor. Ironhide being one of the prominent pictures to confirm this. This also harkons back to TF1 when starscream left earth and ROTF when Megatron left earth. In DOTM the Autobots left earth albeit briefly and in AOE Prime left earth. Wheelie and Simmons in ROTF speak about the seekers and say how some of them stayed around which implied they could leave which is later confirmed by Jetfire when he's not giving a care about the war or sides. He can also generate space bridges and remarks about being on the right planet which implies he could bridge to planets.

WW2 flashback explicitly shows Lord of the Manor talking about bumblebee and how he met him as a boy which is further confirmation given the timeframe that bee cannot be christened bee by the lead in the 80s. He calls him bumblebee before anything is said.

How do you know she is a creator creature or isn't? She takes a cybertronian form, a human form and an in-between form in TLK.

Autobot Roadburn wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:TLK made it clear that the transformers had been coming and going from earth which was confirmed in ROTF so it does really tie to TLK and the transformers are shown to be present during pre civilization and the medieval times coming and going. Bee is present in WW2 on Earth and is known as bumblebee by that point which can't be denied given that Hot Rod is actually with him. The WW2 events are before this spin off movie.

TLK never indicated that they were "coming and going". Only that they had been coming to Earth, and specifically put Autobots whom the IDW tie-ins said only first came to Earth in the 21st Century on Earth in various historical points.

And the WWII flashback never said outright that Bumblebee had that name at that point.

Plus, neither of have seen the new movie yet. For all we know, Charlie could be thinking up an appropriate name that, coincidence of all coincidences, just so happened to be his actual name. We can't say anything about the matter either way until the movie comes out.

Prowl4 wrote:Well in the case of the all spark and quintessa we actually see the all spark create life and restore bodies through that first movie and subsequently twice in ROTF. Quintessa in TLK was either cut or the budget was cut on her and her role reduced but it's not too much of a stretch to say she possesses mind control like abilities which we see on Optimus and Megatron. I'd like to know the original intention or story to her role.

All we know is that she isn't one of those Creator aliens whose hand we see in AOE, and whom the AllSpark has yet to be affiliated with in any official capacity.

I'm really starting to hope this is a soft reboot at this point because the continuity is so unnecessarily convoluted by now I haven't even bothered to remember most of this.

It's not that hard to follow really but if this director is telling the truth that the girl names bee then it's very very silly and very very messy. It makes his work look shoddy which probably isn't far from the truth if rumours are to be believed.

Prowl4 wrote:TLK did indicate they came and went as depicted from the pictures, murals and statues in The Lord's Manor.

Which of those showed them leaving Earth? That's what I was emphasizing. The pictures show them on Earth, but there is no talk of any departures from the planet.

Prowl4 wrote:Ironhide being one of the prominent pictures to confirm this. This also harkons back to TF1 when starscream left earth and ROTF when Megatron left earth.

Those characters were shown to have the capability to do that. Characters like Ironhide needed a ship to leave the planet in DOTM, which the pictures and murals do not depict.

Prowl4 wrote:In DOTM the Autobots left earth albeit briefly

Via a ship.

Prowl4 wrote:and in AOE Prime left earth.

Which many took as being nonsensical, but nevertheless, it was part of a discarded Super Mode-type full-body upgrade he was originally supposed to get the film (instead, only his arms ended up being upgraded), making his flight capabilities extraordinary and unique to him and him alone.

Prowl4 wrote:Wheelie and Simmons in ROTF speak about the seekers and say how some of them stayed around which implied they could leave which is later confirmed by Jetfire when he's not giving a care about the war or sides. He can also generate space bridges and remarks about being on the right planet which implies he could bridge to planets.

Yes. The Seekers had ancient space bridge technology. The present day TFs were established as not possessing that, which is what made Sentinel Prime's pillars so special in DOTM.

Prowl4 wrote:WW2 flashback explicitly shows Lord of the Manor talking about bumblebee and how he met him as a boy which is further confirmation given the timeframe that bee cannot be christened bee by the lead in the 80s. He calls him bumblebee before anything is said.

He did not say that Bumblebee had that name back in WWII. He calls him Bumblebee in the present day, by which point Bumblebee is publicly-known around the world.

Prowl4 wrote:How do you know she is a creator creature or isn't? She takes a cybertronian form, a human form and an in-between form in TLK.

Because we saw how the Creators looked in AOE, and Quintessa doesn't share that design, and the film went out of its way to have the Guardian Knights call her a big fat liar by nature, so anything she says matter-of-factly is automatically subject for scrutiny.

Why do you guys care more than the screenwriters do?

william-james88 wrote:Why do you guys care more than the screenwriters do?

The curse of being a fan I guess. I admit, I never thought about the last two doing away with the prequel comics but then again the screenwriters were probably never aware of their existence anyway.

Sabrblade wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:TLK did indicate they came and went as depicted from the pictures, murals and statues in The Lord's Manor.

Which of those showed them leaving Earth? That's what I was emphasizing. The pictures show them on Earth, but there is no talk of any departures from the planet.

Prowl4 wrote:Ironhide being one of the prominent pictures to confirm this. This also harkons back to TF1 when starscream left earth and ROTF when Megatron left earth.

Those characters were shown to have the capability to do that. Characters like Ironhide needed a ship to leave the planet in DOTM, which the pictures and murals do not depict.

Prowl4 wrote:In DOTM the Autobots left earth albeit briefly

Via a ship.

Prowl4 wrote:and in AOE Prime left earth.

Which many took as being nonsensical, but nevertheless, it was part of a discarded Super Mode-type full-body upgrade he was originally supposed to get the film (instead, only his arms ended up being upgraded), making his flight capabilities extraordinary and unique to him and him alone.

Prowl4 wrote:Wheelie and Simmons in ROTF speak about the seekers and say how some of them stayed around which implied they could leave which is later confirmed by Jetfire when he's not giving a care about the war or sides. He can also generate space bridges and remarks about being on the right planet which implies he could bridge to planets.

Yes. The Seekers had ancient space bridge technology. The present day TFs were established as not possessing that, which is what made Sentinel Prime's pillars so special in DOTM.

Prowl4 wrote:WW2 flashback explicitly shows Lord of the Manor talking about bumblebee and how he met him as a boy which is further confirmation given the timeframe that bee cannot be christened bee by the lead in the 80s. He calls him bumblebee before anything is said.

He did not say that Bumblebee had that name back in WWII. He calls him Bumblebee in the present day, by which point Bumblebee is publicly-known around the world.

Prowl4 wrote:How do you know she is a creator creature or isn't? She takes a cybertronian form, a human form and an in-between form in TLK.

Because we saw how the Creators looked in AOE, and Quintessa doesn't share that design, and the film went out of its way to have the Guardian Knights call her a big fat liar by nature, so anything she says matter-of-factly is automatically subject for scrutiny.

That's just semantics because obviously they left earth with Ironhide being the prime example. Ironhide is pictured multiple times but arrived with prime in the modern day so he obviously came and left.

They don't need a ship as evidenced from protoform along with starscream, Optimus and Megatron all leaving the planet.

So you agree with seekers coming and going at their choosing?

Except bee isn't publicly known worldwide as bee. The only reason he'd know his name is because Hot Rod TOLD him his name.

Fair to say her in-between mode in TLK is quite similar to what was shown in AOE. I think you're taking the Knight's dialogue and fitting it with your narrative. When they say deceiver, it tells me they're insulting her spell binding powers. A magician is a deceiver and that's essentially a power she has which is stated out right in the opening of TLK that magic is real.

Case in point with all else aside, it's incredibly stupid and a massive stretch for the director to say his lead christened bee when all of the evidence points to him having that name. It's like me calling you Hank when your name is let's say John. Your family and friends are not going to start to call you Hank just because one guy called you it.

Prowl4 wrote:Case in point with all else aside, it's incredibly stupid and a massive stretch for the director to say his lead christened bee when all of the evidence points to him having that name. It's like me calling you Hank when your name is let's say John. Your family and friends are not going to start to call you Hank just because one guy called you it.

Alternately:

- If you ended up on a distant planet all by yourself, with nobody else from your old planet around except for a couple who are trying to kill you, and everyone on that new planet started calling you Hank for thirty years... you'd probably start calling yourself Hank too. Or;

- If the aliens on the new planet just so happened to call you John, you'd roll with it super easily since your name is already John. A massive coincidence yes, but one possible way this could play out. Like Sabr said, we don't have enough information on this plot point (if you can even call it important enough to be a "plot point") to make a solid judgement right now.

EvasionModeBumblebee wrote:

crash8burnt wrote:Someone said 'What's the big deal if it is Blitzwing and not Starscream.' Well, it is more than a big deal as many fans grew up in the G1 era and would like a G1 movie.

Good news!

061ED75A-4B5F-489C-A586-97D9D03F8BBD.jpeg

This is the perfect post

Prowl4 wrote:That's just semantics because obviously they left earth with Ironhide being the prime example. Ironhide is pictured multiple times but arrived with prime in the modern day so he obviously came and left.

If you have to assume things in order for things to make sense, then logically speaking, wouldn't that preclude things from making sense as they are?

Prowl4 wrote:They don't need a ship as evidenced from protoform along with starscream, Optimus and Megatron all leaving the planet.

If Optimus could already fly, then why did he insist in DOTM that he needed the jetpack that he had in that movie? ("The Decepticons have my trailer! I NEED that flight tech!")

Optimus's flight capabilities in AOE were supposed to be something new that he only just got for the first time in that movie. The final cut didn't make that as clear as it was meant to be due to the super special upgrade that Optimus was supposed to have received being reduced to just his arms being upgraded instead. But the original intent is nonetheless relevant.

Prowl4 wrote:So you agree with seekers coming and going at their choosing?

The Seekers were a super duper special ancient race that had space bridge technology. A technology that both ROTF and DOTM made a big deal about how none of the present day TFs (e.g. - Optimus, Bumblebee, Ironhide, etc.) had access to. TLK putting the present day TFs on Earth during times when their Seeker ancestors were around is ridiculous as that defeats the whole point of the Seekers being the ancient race that they were. They were meant to predate the present day cast, not coexist with them. That's what made Jetfire so special in ROTF. That he was the last of a race of special ancient TFs who had long since gone extinct before the present day TFs' time.

What TLK did was basically the equivalent of someone trying to claim that John F. Kennedy and George Washington went to school together as classmates.

Prowl4 wrote:Except bee isn't publicly known worldwide as bee. The only reason he'd know his name is because Hot Rod TOLD him his name.

Well, there you go. Sir Edmund Burton knows Hot Rod, Hot Rod knows Bumblebee, therefore if Hot Rod told Burton Bee's name, Burton would know Bee's name by the present. But there's nothing in the WWII flashback that says anything about what Bee's name was back then or if Burton had ever learned his name back then. For all we know, Burton might have just known Bee and Hot Rod as "those metal men who fought the Nazis", and only learned their names later on. We can't assume anything from that scene like you are doing right now.

Prowl4 wrote:Fair to say her in-between mode in TLK is quite similar to what was shown in AOE. I think you're taking the Knight's dialogue and fitting it with your narrative. When they say deceiver, it tells me they're insulting her spell binding powers. A magician is a deceiver and that's essentially a power she has which is stated out right in the opening of TLK that magic is real.

The knights were berating Optimus for his having listened to what Quintessa told him, for his having been swayed by her words. Even if her brainwashing powers were related, it was through her words that she swayed Optimus in the first place. Quintessa is basically the Movieverse equivalent of Quintus Prime, right down to their similar designs and adept powers of persuasive and deceive speech, only with Quintessa being female instead of male.

Prowl4 wrote:Case in point with all else aside, it's incredibly stupid and a massive stretch for the director to say his lead christened bee when all of the evidence points to him having that name. It's like me calling you Hank when your name is let's say John. Your family and friends are not going to start to call you Hank just because one guy called you it.

Like I said, for all we know, Charlie just guessed his real name by pure coincidence. Or maybe before deciding on "Bumblebee" maybe she'll list off a number of other name suggestions that Bee will reject before she settles on the one name that he actually approves of, because it happens to be his real name. Again, you're assuming things without having yet seen the movie. Let's wait and see how the scene actually plays out in the film before hitting the panic button, m'kay?

There's also a possibility that he leads her to that name, still don't think it's anything to panic over in the slightest.

Do you guys imagine if Shatter gets a nice characterization,she will be become a regular Decepticon in other media like Armada Demolisher and Movie Blackout and Barricade?

I will admit, for a film where the marketting is about this being more G1 than anything before (the director having grown up with G1, BB beign a volkswagon, it taking place in the 80s), I do find it really odd that a G1 coloured jet transformer wearing a stylized G1 head of Starscream is not starscream. I know marketting people can be real dumb but this strikes me as an odd choice and I dont kow why they made it. They knew it would be a talking point, and the shot was chosen for the trailer so I am just puzzled as to the point of making us think one way and revealing something left field.

I dont really care about the end product since I am watching this for the film itself, but its still an odd decision in how this jet's identity has been handled.

william-james88 wrote:I will admit, for a film where the marketting is about this being more G1 than anything before (the director having grown up with G1, BB beign a volkswagon, it taking place in the 80s), I do find it really odd that a G1 coloured jet transformer wearing a stylized G1 head of Starscream is not starscream. I know marketting people can be real dumb but this strikes me as an odd choice and I dont kow why they made it. They knew it would be a talking point, and the shot was chosen for the trailer so I am just puzzled as to the point of making us think one way and revealing something left field.

I dont really care about the end product since I am watching this for the film itself, but its still an odd decision in how this jet's identity has been handled.

Sure.

But also, the character sounds Nothing like Starscream (in the footage we saw), and I think that may have also upset some fans more. Bit of a lose lose situation really.

Not to mention what happens to him (disposeable villain syndrome...he'll be forgotten by the cast before the end of the second reel).

I do feel a bit bad for the position the film makers are in but then again, they did it knowing how it may go down...wouldn't surprise me if the cons colours are tweaked in the final release so he no longer looks like screamer...seriously they should have just made him him one of the rain makers from the get go.

ZeroWolf wrote:Not to mention what happens to him (disposeable villain syndrome...he'll be forgotten by the cast before the end of the second reel).

I do feel a bit bad for the position the film makers are in but then again, they did it knowing how it may go down...wouldn't surprise me if the cons colours are tweaked in the final release so he no longer looks like screamer...seriously they should have just made him him one of the rain makers from the get go.

Agreed, the other two villains are new and dont reference anyone in particular so I dont know why they didnt keep that theme with the jet and just change the colours so that it wouldnt clash with fan expectations.

Va'al wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I will admit, for a film where the marketting is about this being more G1 than anything before (the director having grown up with G1, BB beign a volkswagon, it taking place in the 80s), I do find it really odd that a G1 coloured jet transformer wearing a stylized G1 head of Starscream is not starscream. I know marketting people can be real dumb but this strikes me as an odd choice and I dont kow why they made it. They knew it would be a talking point, and the shot was chosen for the trailer so I am just puzzled as to the point of making us think one way and revealing something left field.

I dont really care about the end product since I am watching this for the film itself, but its still an odd decision in how this jet's identity has been handled.

Sure.

But also, the character sounds Nothing like Starscream (in the footage we saw), and I think that may have also upset some fans more. Bit of a lose lose situation really.

Fans getting upset about change in a franchise where the main concept is about change? How shocking.