Preview for Transformers '84 Secrets and Lies #4 and Cover Details from Casey Coller and Nick Roche

Hell. Yes. I've been waiting for this for a while now. Hopefully it doesn't get ruined with unnecessary fanwank like last issue did.

Our dog passed away on Monday so I didn't have it in me to do any reviews this week.

TF 84 4 was a pretty big let down though. Furman wrote himself into a corner with the Grimlock vs Auntie Megatron battle, took the cheapest way out possible and I was so disappointed. Great art and the Wreckers stuff was fun enough, but overall a lousy ending to what had been a pretty cool mini-series.

What was even the point of the Coneheads being on Earth? Why did Furman put them on the Nemesis in the first place? They could have remained on Cybertron with Straxus with little to no consequences.

Honestly, the only important thing they do when on Earth is let Grimlock know about Megatron's antimatter. Is that why Furman put them there? To have someone there to tell Grimlock about it?

And what about the Autobots that AUNTIE reactivated last issue? They're still up and about outside of the Ark in this issue, but their fates are left unresolved.

(None of these are spoilers since they're all given in the 5-page preview)

If anything the biggest disappointment for me was the setup of Star Saber and Deathsaurus, but they did almost nothing

Sabrblade wrote:Honestly, the only important thing they do when on Earth is let Grimlock know about Megatron's antimatter. Is that why Furman put them there? To have someone there to tell Grimlock about it?

In the commentary at the end he mentions how Megatron's connection to anti-matter isn't used enough in TF fiction. It was almost verbatim to what Roberts says in one of the TF UK commentaries, which came before he used it himself in MTMTE. My theory? He was just keeping up with the Joneses. Or Robertses.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:If anything the biggest disappointment for me was the setup of Star Saber and Deathsaurus, but they did almost nothing

100% agreed. Cool to see them but I don't get it now


I worry that this is continuing/getting converted to an ongoing and that's why this ending felt incomplete and abrupt. I was fine with it as a mini-series!

ScottyP wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Honestly, the only important thing they do when on Earth is let Grimlock know about Megatron's antimatter. Is that why Furman put them there? To have someone there to tell Grimlock about it?

In the commentary at the end he mentions how Megatron's connection to anti-matter isn't used enough in TF fiction. It was almost verbatim to what Roberts says in one of the TF UK commentaries, which came before he used it himself in MTMTE. My theory? He was just keeping up with the Joneses. Or Robertses.

But that still doesn't answer my question. Why did Furman put the Coneheads on the Nemesis (especially when they were never indicated to have ever boarded that ship in the first place back in the Marvel Comics) and bring them to Earth at all if they were only just going to get sent right back to Cybertron so quickly?

Furman might as well have just left the Coneheads on Cybertron, period.

My suggestion would be to promote the release of the ER 2-pack, but the timing is off for that, so the best guess I can take is a tie-in for the figures now in-hand. That, plus the fact that they didn't do a lot in the original run, so it gives them something to do.

As for Deathsaurus and Star Saber, I said it before and I'll say it again: they had no business in this comic whatsoever. They were never in the original US version, and it was just a waste of panel space to put them in. That space should have gone to Straxus or Thunderwing. Same with the Wreckers. They were a UK-only concept and should have been kept that way. This was my main gripe with Regeneration One as well, but in that story I at least got satisfaction by enjoying Springer's execution.

It's obvious Furman has lost a step or 2 as far as storytelling goes and his attempts to shoehorn characters and concepts that weren't in the original US Marvel comic is both annoying and kinda pathetic. Unfortunately I couldn't help myself in following this story and purchasing the issues because even with all its faults it's still better than the current ongoing, not to mention the gorgeous Guidi art that blows away anything else being produced. That's the best part. My opinion only, of course.

Rodimus Prime wrote:My suggestion would be to promote the release of the ER 2-pack, but the timing is off for that, so the best guess I can take is a tie-in for the figures now in-hand. That, plus the fact that they didn't do a lot in the original run, so it gives them something to do.

But they still didn't do anything, except get their butts kicked by Shockwave and Grimlock.

Their role was completely pointless.

I am probably one of the few, but I loved ReGen1. That was a fun comic. This felt like they were trying to capture that same feel and story in the early days of the war instead of after, but they didn't succeed in sticking the landing

I wish they had used Guido's art in ReG1 like they used in here. It feels more like the classic Marvel art than what ReG1 used (ironically, since ReG1 used artists from the classic Marvel run).

well thanks to covid i had to sail the high seas to read this one. (issue 4)

TBH the whole series now feels like a "test" for potential spin off series set in the "middle years" period.

which in fairness i'd be ok with if the same team is involved (bar the "dot matix" colouring effect which is annoying the hell out of me now. john paul is a BRILLIANT colourist as it is so at least let him colour to 80s UK level - which was far superior to the US one of the time)

its the only thing that makes sense of the introduction of deathsaurus and star sabre - beyond fan service that is.

personally i'd love the idea of an ongoing set then .

on this issue have to commend the portrayal of abominus. it was RIGHT out of the headmasters mini on the art front. well done guido. im actually not against cybertronian combiners as theres precedent in the aformentioned headmasters mini and theres no reason to think the tech couldnt have been perfected in the 4mil years the ark was on earth.

its just a shame its sooooo CLOSE to when shockers was still active.

but anyway getting back to the issue. this really didnt end well for me. maybe sommat happened in editorial to leave the ending we got (spin off?) i certainly cant see grimlock just topping himself for al intents and purposes.

all in all the messiest ending of a furman comice ive seen.

i dunno.

STILL . the best TF comic out there though. saddly.

Sabrblade wrote:I wish they had used Guido's art in ReG1 like they used in here. It feels more like the classic Marvel art than what ReG1 used (ironically, since ReG1 used artists from the classic Marvel run).

I actually preferred the RG1 art too, it spoke more to me, I just liked it more

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I wish they had used Guido's art in ReG1 like they used in here. It feels more like the classic Marvel art than what ReG1 used (ironically, since ReG1 used artists from the classic Marvel run).

I actually preferred the RG1 art too, it spoke more to me, I just liked it more

That's not what I said.

Sabrblade wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I wish they had used Guido's art in ReG1 like they used in here. It feels more like the classic Marvel art than what ReG1 used (ironically, since ReG1 used artists from the classic Marvel run).

I actually preferred the RG1 art too, it spoke more to me, I just liked it more

That's not what I said.

You worded that very confusingly.

Either way, RG1 was my preferred of the 2 art styles, this wasn't as nice

partholon wrote:all in all the messiest ending of a furman comice ive seen.

i dunno.

STILL . the best TF comic out there though. saddly.

Botanica was messier. I like Botanica and Beast Machines but RG1's ending was a real slop imo. With you on this being the best TF comic during its run but it wasn't a steep hill to climb.

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Deathsaurus and Star Saber, I said it before and I'll say it again: they had no business in this comic whatsoever.

Given the end result, totally agreed. I'd guess he wanted to use them after getting to do something with them in Earth Wars, but the lack of planned toys may have been a factor for editorial to want to limit their presence. Could have still done the shot of Magnus, Maximus and Saber in issue 4 without Star Saber needing to show up earlier, we'd all have followed.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:My suggestion would be to promote the release of the ER 2-pack, but the timing is off for that, so the best guess I can take is a tie-in for the figures now in-hand. That, plus the fact that they didn't do a lot in the original run, so it gives them something to do.

But they still didn't do anything, except get their butts kicked by Shockwave and Grimlock.

Their role was completely pointless.

Well, the title of this story is Secrets&Lies, and they did keep the location of the Ark a secret for all that time. So I guess that's the point of them being there. Otherwise the only ones who know are Straxus and Punch/Counterpunch. So really the only ones who lived up to the title were Shockwave, before he got taken out by the Dinobots, P/CP, Straxus and the Coneheads. And of course the original secret by Optimus Prime, from the prequel, that their mission was really a suicide run to get Megatron away from Cybertron at all costs. And maybe the fact that Grimlock pretty much tried to commit suicide at the end...?

Assuming we won't get any other stories like this, which I hope we do, there's 1 glaring continuity hole I won't forget. In issue 1 of the original Marvel comic, all the Bots and Cons wake up inside the Ark, including Megatron. But at the end of this story, Megatron drops outside. How does his body get back inside the Ark?

Rodimus Prime wrote:Assuming we won't get any other stories like this, which I hope we do, there's 1 glaring continuity hole I won't forget. In issue 1 of the original Marvel comic, all the Bots and Cons wake up inside the Ark, including Megatron. But at the end of this story, Megatron drops outside. How does his body get back inside the Ark?

Yeah, and the other Autobots AUNTIE awoke are still outside too. They all gotta get put back inside the Ark (and destroyed again in the Autobots' case), but they were all left unaccounted for.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Assuming we won't get any other stories like this, which I hope we do, there's 1 glaring continuity hole I won't forget. In issue 1 of the original Marvel comic, all the Bots and Cons wake up inside the Ark, including Megatron. But at the end of this story, Megatron drops outside. How does his body get back inside the Ark?

Yeah, and the other Autobots AUNTIE awoke are still outside too. They all gotta get put back inside the Ark (and destroyed again in the Autobots' case), but they were all left unaccounted for.

Like I said, Furman has lost a couple of steps in the last 25 years.

Another big continuity issue with this series, judging by TFWiki, is that it screws with "Man of Iron" even as it tries to set it up.

Furman bringing the Wreckers in shouldn't be a surprise - they're his pet unit, and the 2005-2018 IDW comic (which in some ways he seems to have forgot he wasn't writing here) dragged them into the U.S. spotlight. And I'm pretty sure he was trying to better reconcile the US and UK comics, especially since the UK comic - which he was the main writer for and which had 252 more issues - gave several characters a lot more page-time and fleshing-out than the US one did.

Of course, IMO trying to fix-fic the Marvel comics is an exercise futility regardless unless they're willing to completely overwrite (or otherwise somehow deal with) the festering mold stain on the entire lot that is "Afterdeath." Especially if they're going to try to go all IDW-gritty with Optimus like they did here.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Another big continuity issue with this series, judging by TFWiki, is that it screws with "Man of Iron" even as it tries to set it up.

Erm, you're thinking of the one-shot "Transformers '84" issue. This spinoff series, "Secrets & Lies", didn't touch upon the stuff from "Man of Iron".

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Furman bringing the Wreckers in shouldn't be a surprise - they're his pet unit, and the 2005-2018 IDW comic (which in some ways he seems to have forgot he wasn't writing here) dragged them into the U.S. spotlight.

Right, the Wreckers weren't much of an issue here. If anything, this series shows how they came to be the Wreckers, which is fine since the Wreckers were already a group by the time of "Target: 2006".

With that said, however...

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:And I'm pretty sure he was trying to better reconcile the US and UK comics, especially since the UK comic - which he was the main writer for and which had 252 more issues - gave several characters a lot more page-time and fleshing-out than the US one did.

Except, that's not what he did in this case. If anything, he overrode the continuity of the UK comics with this series as, back in the pages of "Target: 2006", he wrote a back-up story called "Cybertron: The Middle Years!" in which he told a summary of events that happened on Cybertron during the 4-million-year time gap between the Ark's crash-landing on Earth and its occuprants awakening in the 80s.

In that story, Furman told of a Decepticon warlord named Trannis who rose to power in Megatron's absence and brought the Autobots to their knees. He was eventually succeeded by Straxus. "Secrets & Lies", however, completely throws all of that out the window, ignoring Trannis entirely to instead put Straxus, Scorponok, and Thunderwing all in power right away.

In his commentary pages, Furman even acts like he's treating the US and UK comics as separate continuities. One such example is when, in two of his commentaries, he says that he included Scourge and Cyclonus in this series because of how they appeared in the old Headmasters mini-series with no backstory for either. But, in his own UK issues, he did give them a backstory that made them the same Scourge and Cyclonus created by Unicron in the future, after they got sent back in time to join up with Scorponok and become Targetmasters on Nebulos.

Yet, in this series, Furman put them on four-million-year-old Cybertron because of the Headmasters mini giving them no backstory, so he chose to actively ignore what he had written before in the UK comics and regard them as separate from the US ones.