Seibertron.com Exclusive - Sit Down Interview With FansProject - Pictures Included

Autobot032 wrote:All in all, I'm not really that impressed with the news so far.

I think they are saving the big info for the bigger con. They even said they are saving the heavy answers for "another convention". In other words, Botcon.

I gotta say the ballsiest thing there was the guy selling the ROTF wave 1&2 legends figures.

Mkall wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:All in all, I'm not really that impressed with the news so far.

Wellm we are in Canada, being told stuff by Greg who was told what to tell us, there wasn't even an interactive Q&A

I think botcon will have more info

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was aiming that toward you guys.

I meant the info and the amount of news given to you was pure crap. For a convention with Q&A that costs money...I'd expect a bit more.

No, you guys did fine.

It Is Him wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:As for ROTF:

- Movie Preview Figures: May 15th.

I was not expecting them to be coming out that late... A bit of a shocker.

It's only 3 weeks away.

Oh I know that, but last time they had these out a month prior, and then released some Deluxes in honor of the second trailer, then the line itself.

This time, they're cutting it close. I'm guessing so the Preview wave doesn't shelfclog...

Down_Shift wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:All in all, I'm not really that impressed with the news so far.

I think they are saving the big info for the bigger con. They even said they are saving the heavy answers for "another convention". In other words, Botcon.

I gotta say the ballsiest thing there was the guy selling the ROTF wave 1&2 legends figures.

True, but they could've given this convention a bit of it's own juicy info. Something to show it's worth a damn too.

As for the guy selling the figures...that's..heh. Wow. Brass, through and through.

And the FP interview? Excellent info, excellent questions, but I detected a bit of an attitude from the FP guy (and I could be wrong since it's the internet, but I still get that..."feeling") and as for the projects themselves...impressive, but the more and more I see of Rodimus, the more and more I see he's like Ultra Magnus (I.E. not needed in my collection.)

I realize they've done an impressive job of updating him, and that Hot Rod pulling a trailer/camper thingamajig is pretty much what Rodimus has always been about, plus I realize they can only do so much with what they're given, but he really does look like Hot Rod pulling a trailer.

At least Rodimus (in '86) had some kind of a "truckish" thing going on there...this guy, not so much.

I'm sure the final product will look even better, but I was expecting like an add on piece that would convert the tail end of Hot Rod and fuse him with the trailer, while keeping the nose intact, but giving the appearance of an entirely different vehicle.

As it is now, you can clearly tell it's Hot Rod (spoiler sticking out, and all) shoved into the bottom of a box on wheels.

I know, I'm not explaining it right, but hopefully someone will get it and word it better.

EDIT: After looking at the pictures, I realize there is some positive stuff I got from all of this...

Wreck-Gar? Yes.

Springer? Yes. (Now that I know he's an actual figure, like A.R.C. Fembot.)

Autobot Twins Cloudraker and Fastlane? YES. (Double yes.)

The Glacier combiner? YES. (Oh hells yes.)

Rodimus is still iffy. I'll consider it right now, make a final decision when it's finally able to be seen in detail.

Now...tell me again why they can't make us an Arcee that blows A.R.C. out of the water? Seriously... Or for that matter...an Animated Arcee, in case Hasbro decides to tell us to get bent.

Autobot032 wrote:
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was aiming that toward you guys.

I meant the info and the amount of news given to you was pure crap. For a convention with Q&A that costs money...I'd expect a bit more.

No, you guys did fine.

Honestly, I did expect just a touch more of something else. Maybe in regards to more exclusives because that's something Canada gets boned on a lot.

Autobot032 wrote:And the FP interview? Excellent info, excellent questions, but I detected a bit of an attitude from the FP guy (and I could be wrong since it's the internet, but I still get that..."feeling") and as for the projects themselves...impressive, but the more and more I see of Rodimus, the more and more I see he's like Ultra Magnus (I.E. not needed in my collection.)

To tell you the honest truth, he was very polite. He was actually a lot of fun to talk to. I think he was just as excited to talk to us as we were to talk to him. There were even a few things talked about off the books that he's really excited about. I'd love to tell you all more but MKall and I were told not to say anything just yet. But I think everyone will be impressed.

Autobot032 wrote:I realize they've done an impressive job of updating him, and that Hot Rod pulling a trailer/camper thingamajig is pretty much what Rodimus has always been about, plus I realize they can only do so much with what they're given, but he really does look like Hot Rod pulling a trailer.

At least Rodimus (in '86) had some kind of a "truckish" thing going on there...this guy, not so much.

I'm sure the final product will look even better, but I was expecting like an add on piece that would convert the tail end of Hot Rod and fuse him with the trailer, while keeping the nose intact, but giving the appearance of an entirely different vehicle.

As it is now, you can clearly tell it's Hot Rod (spoiler sticking out, and all) shoved into the bottom of a box on wheels.

I know, I'm not explaining it right, but hopefully someone will get it and word it better.

Ha ha ha, I get what your saying. I was hoping to see a prototype here this year, but I'm happy with the images. But for me, I love seeing stuff like that.

Down_Shift wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was aiming that toward you guys.

I meant the info and the amount of news given to you was pure crap. For a convention with Q&A that costs money...I'd expect a bit more.

No, you guys did fine.

Honestly, I did expect just a touch more of something else. Maybe in regards to more exclusives because that's something Canada gets boned on a lot.

Excellent point. Now that you mention it, kinda cheeses me off a bit more than before.

Down_Shift wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:And the FP interview? Excellent info, excellent questions, but I detected a bit of an attitude from the FP guy (and I could be wrong since it's the internet, but I still get that..."feeling") and as for the projects themselves...impressive, but the more and more I see of Rodimus, the more and more I see he's like Ultra Magnus (I.E. not needed in my collection.)

To tell you the honest truth, he was very polite. He was actually a lot of fun to talk to. I think he was just as excited to talk to us as we were to talk to him. There were even a few things talked about off the books that he's really excited about. I'd love to tell you all more but MKall and I were told not to say anything just yet. But I think everyone will be impressed.

Well then, I stand corrected. I'm glad to see he was a great guy to deal with. That alone makes me want to give someone my business. And if there's even more than what we've seen already...I might actually fall in love with G1 again.

Down_Shift wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:I realize they've done an impressive job of updating him, and that Hot Rod pulling a trailer/camper thingamajig is pretty much what Rodimus has always been about, plus I realize they can only do so much with what they're given, but he really does look like Hot Rod pulling a trailer.

At least Rodimus (in '86) had some kind of a "truckish" thing going on there...this guy, not so much.

I'm sure the final product will look even better, but I was expecting like an add on piece that would convert the tail end of Hot Rod and fuse him with the trailer, while keeping the nose intact, but giving the appearance of an entirely different vehicle.

As it is now, you can clearly tell it's Hot Rod (spoiler sticking out, and all) shoved into the bottom of a box on wheels.

I know, I'm not explaining it right, but hopefully someone will get it and word it better.

Ha ha ha, I get what your saying. I was hoping to see a prototype here this year, but I'm happy with the images. But for me, I love seeing stuff like that.

Oh good. Glad someone got it. I was hoping I wasn't looking like an idiot out here. (Or at least no more than I usually do. lol)

I'm sure it'll be an impressive piece, plus all of the finer tweaks etc, but if it's about the same in the end as it is now in transition, I just can't part with that kind of dough. I'd have to find Classics Rodimus, then buy this trailer piece, etc. It really needs to wow me to do all that.

Great work, Down_Shift and Mkall!

Seeing that Springer will indeed be a Triple Changer is very awesome and I can't wait for that Wreck Gar, either!

You gave us a lot of info, especially the Fans Project tidbits.

I'm already looking forward to Botcon where we will know a lot more.

(Of course, Brian Savage will just grimace every time someone asks him a question but oh well)

As if I didn't love FansProject enough already. These new projects look incredible.

I think the stuff that FanProject are developing is far more exciting than anything Hasbro is doing, although I guess we'll find out more on that at Botcon.

I concur though on how incredible those projects look, interesting to see that the Energon Superion Maximus add-on is a FanProject project. That new combiner looks exciting as well, Predabots perhaps? (Some how a Decepticon Deer doesn't sound quite right.)

Ooooh...FansProject is going to be getting a LOT of money from me...Rodimus Prime...Springer as an actual triplechanger...Wreck Gar...

It's almost painful how exciting all this is...

Damn, ever one of those sets looks awesome. Specially as I haven't purchased any of the repaint Springers (since they weren't triple changers - and thus weren't really Springer).

I may even have to go and buy a Superion now. Thanks FansProject. I love you but my wallet hates you

Autobot032 wrote:
Autobot Twins Cloudraker and Fastlane? YES. (Double yes.)

Looks more like a Broadside figure to me....

and is that a weapon kit pack for grimlock,hound and mirage I see in one of the pics - I hadn't heard about that before.

Rodentus Prime wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
Autobot Twins Cloudraker and Fastlane? YES. (Double yes.)

Looks more like a Broadside figure to me....

and is that a weapon kit pack for grimlock,hound and mirage I see in one of the pics - I hadn't heard about that before.

Broadside yes

And those weapons will be coming with the G3 Trailer.

Thanks for the info on the FansProject stuff, DownShift. I"m really geeked about all of it. Especially Rodimus and the energon combiner extras. Now it looks like I might need to pick up the Superion Maximus set that comes out with ROTF

Delicon wrote:Great work, Down_Shift and Mkall!

Seeing that Springer will indeed be a Triple Changer is very awesome and I can't wait for that Wreck Gar, either!

You gave us a lot of info, especially the Fans Project tidbits.

I'm already looking forward to Botcon where we will know a lot more.

(Of course, Brian Savage will just grimace every time someone asks him a question but oh well)

Thanks man. We were both really pumped to do this. It was kind of on a whim. I'm glad to see everyone so happy with the FP stuff. I know I am.

When I go back today there are a few more questions I want to ask about Wreck-Gar and Broadside.

I made sure to ask him, although I don't think I put it in the interview, about Broadside. He is infact a triple changer. I thought he was one bot and two separate vehicle modes, but he tells us that it is a true triple changer. Wreck-Gar on the other hand I forgot to ask questions about. I think I was trying to cover thej basics and forgot about the basics, ya know? In the picture you see two robots, one bike and one robot riding a bike. I need to clairify but I think Collector is two Junkions. It looks to me like it's either two robots combine into one big robot, or one robot one bike combine into one big robot. With a goatee.

This is way cool! All these figures got me stoked! Everything these guys touch seem to turn to gold. The Superion add-on is a definite must for this gestalt to look decent and the fact that these limbs integrate into the alt-modes is perfect. Rodimus is another must. Not too sure about the stand-alones just yet but knowing these guys are coming is exciting. FP has my money on them. Oooh, my aching wallet.

Great interview. Nice of them to reveal so much of their future work.

Got to say, I like the direction the Rodimus armor is heading. Definitely going to pick it up. Not sure about the other figures they're going to release. Perhaps the Collector just because I've never had a Wreckgar and this one looks very anime/classic in style. The others will be a wait and see.

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:I think the stuff that FanProject are developing is far more exciting than anything Hasbro is doing, although I guess we'll find out more on that at Botcon.

My thoughts exactly. Can Hasbro just subcontract these guys to do the Classics/Universe line for them.

El Duque wrote:

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:I think the stuff that FanProject are developing is far more exciting than anything Hasbro is doing, although I guess we'll find out more on that at Botcon.

My thoughts exactly. Can Hasbro just subcontract these guys to do the Classics/Universe line for them.

I think they're getting really, really close to getting their asses sued honestly.

I know, I know...it's China...good luck, etc. But the number 1 toy manufacturer in the world has at least a bit of sway with the factories that could put together entire Transformer toys.

Additions, add-ons, accessories...those are all one thing. When Fans Project starts dipping into actual characters...I think we could end up seeing some claws from Hasbro.

Counterpunch wrote:

El Duque wrote:

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:I think the stuff that FanProject are developing is far more exciting than anything Hasbro is doing, although I guess we'll find out more on that at Botcon.

My thoughts exactly. Can Hasbro just subcontract these guys to do the Classics/Universe line for them.

I think they're getting really, really close to getting their asses sued honestly.

I know, I know...it's China...good luck, etc. But the number 1 toy manufacturer in the world has at least a bit of sway with the factories that could put together entire Transformer toys.

Additions, add-ons, accessories...those are all one thing. When Fans Project starts dipping into actual characters...I think we could end up seeing some claws from Hasbro.

I know that was in the back on my mind as well. So how does this work? Obviously these upcoming FP figures like Collector and Defender have an extreme and intended resemblance to Wrekgar and Springer, but they aren't duplicates of anything Hasbro/Takara has done and they have different names. What can Hasbro/Takara do? They don't have an exclusive patent on transforming toys. I'm asking honestly, not trying to be a smart ass.

El Duque wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

El Duque wrote:

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:I think the stuff that FanProject are developing is far more exciting than anything Hasbro is doing, although I guess we'll find out more on that at Botcon.

My thoughts exactly. Can Hasbro just subcontract these guys to do the Classics/Universe line for them.

I think they're getting really, really close to getting their asses sued honestly.

I know, I know...it's China...good luck, etc. But the number 1 toy manufacturer in the world has at least a bit of sway with the factories that could put together entire Transformer toys.

Additions, add-ons, accessories...those are all one thing. When Fans Project starts dipping into actual characters...I think we could end up seeing some claws from Hasbro.

I know that was in the back on my mind as well. So how does this work? Obviously these upcoming FP figures like Collector and Defender have an extreme and intended resemblance to Wrekgar and Springer, but they aren't duplicates of anything Hasbro/Takara has done and they have different names. What can Hasbro/Takara do? They don't have an exclusive patent on transforming toys. I'm asking honestly, not trying to be a smart ass.

I don't know really.

Don't take my previous comments to show a lack of support for Fans Project either.

I'm probably just flat out wrong on this. I mean, KO manufacturers go to town all the time. The difference is that they don't want recognition. Fans Project is an easily identifiable group.

I hope they don't run into any issues. Their upcoming work looks quite good.

I wish them all the luck in the world, I love their stuff.

Counterpunch wrote:

El Duque wrote:

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:I think the stuff that FanProject are developing is far more exciting than anything Hasbro is doing, although I guess we'll find out more on that at Botcon.

My thoughts exactly. Can Hasbro just subcontract these guys to do the Classics/Universe line for them.

I think they're getting really, really close to getting their asses sued honestly.

I know, I know...it's China...good luck, etc. But the number 1 toy manufacturer in the world has at least a bit of sway with the factories that could put together entire Transformer toys.

Additions, add-ons, accessories...those are all one thing. When Fans Project starts dipping into actual characters...I think we could end up seeing some claws from Hasbro.

I actually thought that too when I saw the character designs for their stand alone figures. All Hasbro would probably have to do is to prove without reasonable doubt that the designs are that of or very similar to their own trademarked characters i.e. Springer and Wreckgar, regardless of the name. And if FP starts producing figures that were potentially in Hasbro's pipeline that could/would directly compete with a FP release, there could be some legal issues in their future. At the very least, Hasbro might start making groups like FP license toy designs, intellectual property, etc.

I wish them all the best though and will continue to support them... and HOPE to see some type of general release of Prime's PC armor in the future (one can dream anyway).

Hasbro won't come down on them. Rabid Squirrel created the A.R.C. kit and everyone (including Hasbro) knows who that robot is.

If their figure can make it through, then FP's products can as well.

And in the slim off chance that Hasbro would come down on them, it's a pretty horrible thing to do. If you're going to grind one into the pavement, get 'em all just to be fair.

I'm a little unfamiliar with this stuff: basically, it's a third party that makes upgrades to existing figures, but Hasbro is okay with it?

All I know is that Hasbro at least needs to take note, especially when the stuff coming out of FP is garnering more buzz than many of the official Hasbro releases in the recent past...

Springer and Rodimus Upgrade are definite preorders. I'm not screwing up like I did with City Commander. Wreck-Gar seems interesting and Glacialbots will be amazing if they match the seer size of the Predacons. G3 Trailer is a definite preorder after hearing about the mirror thing.

Alright, after reading that interview, I'm 100% excited and impatient for these upgrades and figures.

Protector? Sold.
Defender? Sold. Too bad the camera flash got in the way of the pics.
Collector? Sold!
Warbot? Maybe, depending on who it is.
Superion limbs? Maybe, if it's cheap-ish.
Combiner...naw.

I only hope the prices stay relatively similar to what we've seen. If certain projects are smaller than City Commander I hope the price reflects that.

Man, am I excited!

This is one of those threads that I keep on coming back to to look at the pictures again.....

I think it's an interesting point about FanProject dipping into actual figures rather than add-ons, maybe a question someone could ask at BotCon is how worried Hasbro are about these 3rd party companies.

Mind you, the WST Dinobots have been around for a while, equally the Jizai figures (Cyclonus, Wheelie, etc) without seemingly getting HasTak too worried.

When Universe Superion was released I initially passed on it, when I saw the thread a while back about rumours of a add-on kit for it I did a complete U-turn and spent an afternoon tracking down the figure. So excited to see it's likely to see a mass release! Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:
I think it's an interesting point about FanProject dipping into actual figures rather than add-ons, maybe a question someone could ask at BotCon is how worried Hasbro are about these 3rd party companies.

Mind you, the WST Dinobots have been around for a while, equally the Jizai figures (Cyclonus, Wheelie, etc) without seemingly getting HasTak too worried.

The question here is whether the third party companies are affecting, or potentially affecting HasTak's sales. Most of the knock-offs are of figures that are no longer available, and Hasbro has been known to come down on the makers of knock-offs of contemporary figures. Same for the WST Dinobots. As for the likes of Jizai toys, either they're not enough of a threat to bother Hasbro (ie. the Jizai Wheelie and Cyclonus came out a long time before Universe 2.0, and they're extremely expensive and explicitly for adult collectors), they're figures that Hasbro won't produce anyway (ie. HOS Prime) or they're actually helping Hasbro's sales (ie. City Commander). On the other hand, if FP start making toys that HasTak had up their sleeves, well, maybe it'll get ugly.

It's not a question of whether Hasbro can sue as whether they will sue. HasTak owns these characters and the rights to any toy or collectable representation of them.

Judge: Is there any evidence that the defendants have been illegally using the likenesses of your property?
Hasbro: We would like to present Exhibit A, Transformers: The Movie.
TV: "Dare To Be Stupid" etc.
Judge: Guilty!

Diem wrote:It's not a question of whether Hasbro can sue as whether they will sue. HasTak owns these characters and the rights to any toy or collectable representation of them.

Judge: Is there any evidence that the defendants have been illegally using the likenesses of your property?
Hasbro: We would like to present Exhibit A, Transformers: The Movie.
TV: "Dare To Be Stupid" etc.
Judge: Guilty!

That's a pretty funny way to put it but exactly the point.

It's not a matter if they can, it's a matter if they will. And since they're publically traded, if times get any tougher, they may step things up to defend their brand(s). I like what these guys do and I'm sure that they're smart enough to know that the further they tread into the entire figure business, the closer to the edge they are walking.

They're no longer under the radar, I just hope HasTak leaves them be.

I seriously fail to see why Hasbro would come down on these guys.

Their City Commander armor does not modify Classics Ultra Magnus, it merely surrounds and encapsulates him, but is not a part of him.

Same with the Rodimus kit.

Their version of Springer is just on the line, but doesn't cross it.

1.) Hasbro never made a show accurate figure, and FP's most certainly isn't.

2.) FP's design is new and unique and while it retains the overall feel of the original character, it doesn't replicate it exactly.

3.) It's not called Springer or an Autobot, and TF-Paralax means jack squat. They could argue that the TF isn't short for TransFormers, and it's just a code for their company's paperwork or whatever.

If somehow Hasbro can crack down on these guys, it's not only wrong, it should be a crime.

They didn't go after RS when they made A.R.C. (which was CLEARLY an infringement of Hasbro's property. Her name sounded out loud like Arcee, she looked exactly like the animation Model, and her head was the Daniel Headmaster.) so if they go after FP, it's an injustice.

But, we're getting worried for no good reason. Hasbro's too concerned with milking ROTF for all it's worth to go after a small group of six or seven individuals who make figures that "kinda" resemble their work, and privately owned designs for accessories that don't.

Hasbro's pulled some boneheaded moves in recent history, but they're not evil, they're not villains. Let's not vilify them just yet.

Autobot032 wrote:I seriously fail to see why Hasbro would come down on these guys.

Their version of Springer is just on the line, but doesn't cross it.

Unfortunately, that's Hasbro's decision to make, not yours.

1.) Hasbro never made a show accurate figure, and FP's most certainly isn't.

But if HasTak do decide to make another Springer this could damage their sales.

3.) It's not called Springer or an Autobot, and TF-Paralax means jack squat. They could argue that the TF isn't short for TransFormers, and it's just a code for their company's paperwork or whatever.

Are you implying that in the hypothetical event of FP being sued they should try and claim their figure has no connection to Transformers? Because that would be the most stupid and irresponsible thing they could do.

If somehow Hasbro can crack down on these guys, it's not only wrong, it should be a crime.

They didn't go after RS when they made A.R.C. (which was CLEARLY an infringement of Hasbro's property. Her name sounded out loud like Arcee, she looked exactly like the animation Model, and her head was the Daniel Headmaster.) so if they go after FP, it's an injustice.

"What I'm doing isn't wrong because someone else did it first and didn't get in trouble for it" stops working after you're 6 years old, I'm afraid.

Hasbro's pulled some boneheaded moves in recent history, but they're not evil, they're not villains. Let's not vilify them just yet.

I know it's very tempting to think of Hasbro as the bad guys in this, and FP as the good guys. Especially when Hasbro's been disappointing a lot of fans recently while FP's been exciting them. But to be honest, Hasbro's pretty good to both us fans and to independant TF accessory makers. Take, for example, SquareEnix, who instructed fans making a non-profit fan update of Chrono Trigger to stop, or FOX who leap like hungry cats onto any website that uploads Simpsons. I'm sure Hasbro are not unaware of the indy toy makers, but they seem to have been turning a blind eye.

If, on the other hand, Hasbro was worried that their sales, trademarks or image were being affected, they'd be well within their rights to ask FP to stop production, at least, without being evil or villains. And just because you and other fans like FP's works, it doesn't mean they're not in a seriously grey legal area. I don't think Hasbro would sue over this, but it would be difficult to blame them if they did.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:I seriously fail to see why Hasbro would come down on these guys.

Their version of Springer is just on the line, but doesn't cross it.

Unfortunately, that's Hasbro's decision to make, not yours.

1.) Hasbro never made a show accurate figure, and FP's most certainly isn't.

But if HasTak do decide to make another Springer this could damage their sales.

I think that the target market for Hasbro figures and FP figures are so different that Hasbro are unlikely to do anything about it - hopefully the only effect it will have will be to prod Hasbro into making their own versions of these characters in Universe.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:I seriously fail to see why Hasbro would come down on these guys.

Their version of Springer is just on the line, but doesn't cross it.

Unfortunately, that's Hasbro's decision to make, not yours.

I realize that it's their decision. I'm not stupid. I still fail to see why they'd go after FP as things currently are. I realize they can if they so choose, but it would be irrational, really.

It's not cutting into any of their profits. Nor is it modifying any of their currently available or past product.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:1.) Hasbro never made a show accurate figure, and FP's most certainly isn't.

But if HasTak do decide to make another Springer this could damage their sales.

"if" being the keyword here. *if* Hasbro were to make one. But to that I say Wish in one hand, crap in the other, see which one gets full first, and you pretty much have your answer as to whether or not we'll see a new G1 Springer toy from Hasbro. And this figure will have long been sold out by the time Hasbro churns one out. It wouldn't affect either company's sales.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:3.) It's not called Springer or an Autobot, and TF-Paralax means jack squat. They could argue that the TF isn't short for TransFormers, and it's just a code for their company's paperwork or whatever.

Are you implying that in the hypothetical event of FP being sued they should try and claim their figure has no connection to Transformers? Because that would be the most stupid and irresponsible thing they could do.

I wasn't talking about the figure itself. I said that part on the names used, alone. Springer is Hasbro's, FP isn't using the name. Autobot is Hasbro's, FP isn't using that name. TF-Paralax could mean a million different things (yes we know what it means, but it could be argued in court otherwise. We have heard of things this simple and small being the one thing that turned the tables.) FP could say it was just a codename for their product for their records. The judge has no way to prove that TF-Paralax means anything but a jibberish code name, and not some rip off of TransFormers. (and a level headed judge would admit to that.)

As for the figure itself, his design is very much on the line, but doesn't quite cross it. However, if the argument made is well thought out and happens to sway the court, then yes, they could take FP down for it. I'll admit it's close enough to look like infringement, but it still hasn't crossed the line yet.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:If somehow Hasbro can crack down on these guys, it's not only wrong, it should be a crime.

They didn't go after RS when they made A.R.C. (which was CLEARLY an infringement of Hasbro's property. Her name sounded out loud like Arcee, she looked exactly like the animation Model, and her head was the Daniel Headmaster.) so if they go after FP, it's an injustice.

"What I'm doing isn't wrong because someone else did it first and didn't get in trouble for it" stops working after you're 6 years old, I'm afraid.

I know it doesn't work like that. (and quite frankly, I don't care much for your tone here. I don't know what crawled up your rear and festered, but don't get condescending with me because something's crawling up your backside.)

And it would be an injustice. How can RS get away with making a perfect copy of the animation model (Daniel Headmaster and all!) and Hasbro was okay with it (RS has proof) but FP who's products don't modify or copy their current or past products or designs are more likely to be liable to incur Hasbro's wrath? Are you serious? Borrowing a few elements to give FP their original design is well within the law seeing as they're not copying every nook and cranny of the original piece. RS blatantly had the balls to call their item A.R.C. (Say it out loud folks, that's right, you heard ARCEE, a Hasbro name.) and copy her every detail.

If FP takes a hit because of their original work that is considered an accessory for a Hasbro item, but not an actual infringement...then yes, it's an injustice. No matter how you slice it, spin it, whatever. Wrong is wrong, and people like you who shrug it off allow potential cases like this to become a reality. And you'd shrug it off if Hasbro won and go back to your day to day grind without a second thought, apparently. (I mean, that *IS* the vibe you're giving off here.)

The rest of us would rage against the machine.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Hasbro's pulled some boneheaded moves in recent history, but they're not evil, they're not villains. Let's not vilify them just yet.

I know it's very tempting to think of Hasbro as the bad guys in this, and FP as the good guys. Especially when Hasbro's been disappointing a lot of fans recently while FP's been exciting them. But to be honest, Hasbro's pretty good to both us fans and to independant TF accessory makers. Take, for example, SquareEnix, who instructed fans making a non-profit fan update of Chrono Trigger to stop, or FOX who leap like hungry cats onto any website that uploads Simpsons. I'm sure Hasbro are not unaware of the indy toy makers, but they seem to have been turning a blind eye.

Um. I actually said that Hasbro was cool for not coming down on them, in other words. I said they weren't the villain, nor should they be vilified for something they haven't even done yet. (and most likely won't.)

I wasn't putting Hasbro down outside of the recent Universe and Animated fiascoes, and it's plain as day what I did or didn't say.

Diem wrote:If, on the other hand, Hasbro was worried that their sales, trademarks or image were being affected, they'd be well within their rights to ask FP to stop production, at least, without being evil or villains. And just because you and other fans like FP's works, it doesn't mean they're not in a seriously grey legal area. I don't think Hasbro would sue over this, but it would be difficult to blame them if they did.

Absolutely, they've every right to ask them to stop. But if FP decided to continue on and it became a court case, I still don't see how they've any less chance of winning.

Yeah, it's a gray legal area, but it's not in the black or white, therefore it's not really causing a problem on either side apparently, or Hasbro would've come crashing down on these guys immediately. There was a store that was replicating G1 Tracks in black and giving it a new name, and selling it. Hasbro DID shut them down. FP, iGear, and the like are doing nothing even close to that sort of thing.

From the tone of your post, I get the feeling you're not a fan of what FP's doing. I don't know if it's coming from a moralistic point of view, a Hasbro fan point of view, or what, but if it is the case, then all of what I've said thus far is just falling on stone deaf ears.

And FYI, it would be extremely easy to blame Hasbro for going after FP. Especially after OKing RS to have their A.R.C. sales. And guess what? Because he took the design, Hasbro can't make a figure in that design now, he said so himself. That cut into potential profits for the future, but no legal action taken.

FP not only deserves the same right as RS, but more so for not RIPPING HASBRO OFF.

Rodentus Prime wrote:

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:I seriously fail to see why Hasbro would come down on these guys.

Their version of Springer is just on the line, but doesn't cross it.

Unfortunately, that's Hasbro's decision to make, not yours.

Diem wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:1.) Hasbro never made a show accurate figure, and FP's most certainly isn't.

But if HasTak do decide to make another Springer this could damage their sales.

I think that the target market for Hasbro figures and FP figures are so different that Hasbro are unlikely to do anything about it - hopefully the only effect it will have will be to prod Hasbro into making their own versions of these characters in Universe.

Exactly. Thank you. If Hasbro would get off of their butts and make the figures folks have been clamoring for (and using the excuse that kids wouldn't be interested is bullcrap. Universe sold out to kids and adults alike.) then there wouldn't be a need for FP and their fellow competition.

"Necessity is the mother of invention" Hasbro learned from it, but apparently never took it to heart. This is why FP exists.

Autobot032 wrote:
From the tone of your post, I get the feeling you're not a fan of what FP's doing. I don't know if it's coming from a moralistic point of view, a Hasbro fan point of view, or what, but if it is the case, then all of what I've said thus far is just falling on stone deaf ears.

Did Hasbro really give those Rabid Squirrel guys the no-strings-attached go-ahead? That's pretty awesome. I did not know that.

I apologise if I was condescending. I have nothing against either you, or FP, I just disagree with many of your points. We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

I read through this thread and thought the responses were interesting. As I was reading I kept thinking, all of these new figures are interesting, but how are they legal?

I understand that the upgrade kits seem to be ok with Hasbro because they aren't taking any buisness away. The upgrade sets probably make money for Hasbro. People go find characters that were out before and buy them so they can get the upgrade kit. Everyone wins.

Once these third-party companies start using characters as their own, they are potentially taking away buisness from Hasbro. If FP produces Springer and Wreck-Gar, Hasbro isn't going to like it. Honestly, I hope Hasbro does go after them. If these characters come out from FP, Hasbro probably won't do them because some people already bought them somewhere else. The third party figures will probably be more expensive than a Hasbro-produced product as well.

Overall, I don't think FP is making a good decision by making their own figures. Just saying "we aren't doing this to make money" doesn't protect you from copyright/trademark infringment. If you want to build a figure for your own collection, go ahead. When you start selling them, then you are breaking the law.

Down_Shift wrote:Wreck-Gar on the other hand I forgot to ask questions about.

I spoke to them at length about the Junkion set at the con. FP explained to me that the junkion release would be a two pack. So that the characters can ride each other like in the animated movie.

He did not specifically say it was Wreckgar himself, but confirmed they were junkions and that the set would NOT be identical molds. He actually told me they were entertaining the idea of one male and one female junkion.

Another tidbit was that the dolly that attaches the city/powered/shadow commander sets to the G3 trailer is not an add on piece, it actually flips out from underneath the main trailer.

We spoke about the combiner as well, they told me it will fit in nicely with a G1 display and will be very simple in its transformation to maintain the charm of a G1 combiner.

Finally, we talked about the superion limb upgrades (which looked FANTASTIC)
I asked him about the colour scheme, he said they are keeping it neutral, dark grey or black. This will make it work with both the energon and the movie release.

Some bad news was they wont be mass producing the mini classics megatron gun for classics starscream to hold, and that there are no plans to re-release the CJ set now that they could lower the cost.
He also told me there is no plan at this point to do a nemesis version of the G3 trailer, but if they did do one, it would be more than just a repaint.

If I remember anything else I will post it, they were great to talk to, extremely passionate and forthcoming. You really got the sense it was a fan talking to another fan.

I figure there are a few factors that may keep Has/Tak of FP's back. These figures will be at a considerably higher price point than any version Has/Tak will procduce and they will only be available thru online retailers. You'll never see a FP's item hanging on a peg at Wal-Mart right next to it's Has/Tak version for a similar price. FP products have a small production run. That combination of factors means for the most part only hardcore adult collectors are in their market, which Has/Tak has repeatedly stated only makes up less than 10% of their market. I hope that enough to keep Has/Tak at bay.

El Duque wrote:I figure there are a few factors that may keep Has/Tak of FP's back. These figures will be at a considerably higher price point than any version Has/Tak will procduce and they will only be available thru online retailers. You'll never see a FP's item hanging on a peg at Wal-Mart right next to it's Has/Tak version for a similar price. FP products have a small production run. That combination of factors means for the most part only hardcore adult collectors are in their market, which Has/Tak has repeatedly stated only makes up less than 10% of their market. I hope that enough to keep Has/Tak at bay.

I love what these guys do so I hope you’re right. That Junkion sounds really cool.

Copyright and trademark infringement is just that, no matter how you cut it (price point, volume, quality, etc.). FP is definitely not just dipping their toes into these waters now with their stand-alone figures; they’re diving right in. Things could get ugly if Hasbro or Takara decides to make an example out of them, especially now that they’re getting so much buzz.

Okay, so it might be difficult for HasTak to sue FP over 'Springer'. But they could try other means.

I mean, if Hasbro think FP are starting to step over the line, they could just sue them over the Magnus armour, or even the Rodimus armour. Sure, these are only add-ons, but add-ons that have the distinctive appearance of HasTak-owned property.

So if FP do continue to put out all these new toys, and maybe step on HasTak's toes, all they have to do is go back to the original - Ultra Magnus, and sue them over the design of that. Okay, so it's an add-on, but the character design is unquestionably based on a character for which FP do not own the intellectual rights.

However, in FPs favour, they are only (thus far) producing in limited numbers. I hope they don't get cocky and start producing in big numbers, because then that really WOULD get HasTak's attention.

Secondly, they appear to be a non-profit organisation, with every penny they make going back in to R&D (as I understand it, anyway). Hasbro might well take a dim view if FP start making serious money with their organisation.

Basically, however, my view is this. Magnus and Rodimus are Hasbro-owned properties, and FP are using their likenesses without permission. Now, we all like to portray FP as the nice guys and Hasbro as evil corporate scum, but in this case I'm on the side of Hasbro.

If (and it's a very big if) Habro want to sue FP, they will win, and win deservedly.

By the way, I asked if the other "myster TF" was Blitzwing and they quickly corrected me. So I think it just might be a Blitzwing.

The people at FP are painfully aware that they could be sued ... which is why the Megatron guns won't be sold. Too similar tin design to what HasTak makes. But, you know what? If the Impossible Toys crews didn't get sued over making the Quints, Kremzeek, Spike, and Sparkplug ... I don't think anyone will get sued.

There's just so many fan productions out there. Did anyone get sued over WS Dinos? How about the WSTF Seekers? King Toy's mid sized Seeker set? All those are full figures and some even transform.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:By the way, I asked if the other "myster TF" was Blitzwing and they quickly corrected me. So I think it just might be a Blitzwing.

Broadside actually.

Mkall wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:By the way, I asked if the other "myster TF" was Blitzwing and they quickly corrected me. So I think it just might be a Blitzwing.

Broadside actually.

Then why did he react so quickly when I said "Blitzwing"?

Broadside is good too, though ....
*saves money for Springer*

Wow this is awesome, Springer is probably a stand alone...Warbot screams broadside to me... Rodimus looks awesome... I don't know about the combiners though... but collector looks cool

Dial up users beware.

While the onslaught of pictures are loading, I'll give you guys a brief summery of what else was covered on day 2 regarding FansProjects
--Collector (aka Wreckgar) is looking like a two-mech set, currently proposed is making one male and one female. This is done so that they can ride one another (double entendre is there)
--Currently they are debating which size is better for the as-of-yet unnamed warbot based off of Broadside. Big (he mimed about one foot tall!) would be in better scale, but smaller (voyager sized maybe) would be more affordable, both to the FansProject team and collectors.
--As it's been said before in the thread, the mini Megatron pistols and the matrix replicas will not see mass production. Not because of potential legal action though. It's because they just want to produce their own designs.

I admit some of these pics might not be of the best quality, but here's the more in depth shots Down_Shift and I took on day 2.

starfish wrote:I mean, if Hasbro think FP are starting to step over the line, they could just sue them over the Magnus armour, or even the Rodimus armour. Sure, these are only add-ons, but add-ons that have the distinctive appearance of HasTak-owned property.

Erm, to be honest, the Rodimus armor only looks like Hasbro's IP in its "Winnebego" form. The robot mode doesn't look like the med/late 80's versions of Rodimus Prime in the slightest, except for head and color scheme, IMHO.

Valandar wrote:

starfish wrote:I mean, if Hasbro think FP are starting to step over the line, they could just sue them over the Magnus armour, or even the Rodimus armour. Sure, these are only add-ons, but add-ons that have the distinctive appearance of HasTak-owned property.

Erm, to be honest, the Rodimus armor only looks like Hasbro's IP in its "Winnebego" form.

Erm, to be honest... isn't that enough? I mean, that Winnebago design isn't exactly based on a real-life vehicle now, is it? In other words, that truck was designed by Hasbro, and now FP are using that design without permission.

Slam-dunk.

After seeing these new projects by Fansproject, my bank account started screaming hehe. I really like these guys work, and I'll try to get most of their figures/kits, especially the combiner figure (even though I don't own G1 figures). The theme for the set is a good one. Might I suggest some alternate forms which could be used as well with this set such as a Diatryma (giant flightless bird), megatherium (giant sloth) or an arsinotherium (a rhino with two horns next to each other) instead of the bear, wooly rhino and deer (megaloceras?)

I wanted to add something about the argument regarding Jizai Toys. If I'm not mistaken Jizai Toys do produce show accurate G1 representation of Transformer characters, and if I'm not mistaken, they do so with the blessings of Takara-Tomy as they sell those figures during the Winter/Summerfest Wonderfest only. Another factor is that they have to produce and sell a limited number.

I do hope that Fansproject do not get any hassle from Hasbro and or Takara-Tomy as they are doing some great stuff, even though I was waiting eagerly for mini megs and the matrix of leadership.

Wow. A real Springer figure. A real, triplechanging Springer figure. THANK YOU FP! Spectacular! I wish you all much luck.

I am totally sold on that.

Most likely I'll be getting that Rodimus and Wreck-Gar as well.

Kudos to FansProject for giving us what Hasbro won't. If we're lucky, maybe this will make Hasbro realize/acknowledge that there is definite interest in these and other G1 characters.

If Hasbro finally decides to make a real (triplechanger!) Springer figure, or Rodimus Prime or Wreck-Gar, I'll be buying them too, despite owning FP's products, as long as Hasbro's versions are well made. So no loss on their part as far as I'm concerned, anyway.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:By the way, I asked if the other "myster TF" was Blitzwing and they quickly corrected me. So I think it just might be a Blitzwing.

I'm sorry, but that might be the dumbest thing I've heard since my mate said Crash Bandicoot was a dog because the game is developed by Naughty Dog. Maybe the guys at Fan's Project said "no" so quickly because it isn't actually Blitzwing. They're not going to great lengths to keep their projects a secret, especially when they name their version of Wreck-Gar "Collector".

Think about it mate, Blitzwing transformed into a jet fighter and a battle tank. Fan's Project's Warbot figure looks like it transforms into a jet fighter and something that very much resembles an aircraft carrier. It sure as hell isn't a battle tank. Jet fighter and aircraft carrier are indeed Broadside's transformations as pointed out by Mkall.

After reading most of this tread I have one question...

Where did everyone get their law degrees from?


Why must these types of debates always occur? Hasbro will sue/not sue etc.

Just enjoy the figures while you can because something like this will probably not last forever.

Not to sound like an old timer but I remember most of the TF debates over the past 10 years.

Will RID come to america, Will hasbro reissue G1 figures, will hasbro sue reprolabels, etc etc

Everyone got all worked up over nothing. Hasbro is a huge company so I doubt they will sue. Can they sue yes? But why are they worried about some small company that sells figures and accessories to a market that loves to spend huge amounts of money on toys. Haven't we all come to the conclusion that hasbro's toys are made specifically for children? Children are not going to google "150 dollar trailer add on for Magnus". I have 3 nephews, 5,7, and 9 that could care less about FP. They want Animated Omega supreme and their Magnus comes with a Hammer.

side question but did hasbro even renew the Trademark for the original G1 springer figure? If its run out, anyone can produce it.