Seibertron.com Feature Article: To Parts-form or Not to Parts-form

This is part-forming I can live with, because the pieces all incorporate into the alt mode. I do not care for G1 combiners because of the leftover pieces. Give me Railracer and Magnaboss any day.

i love parts formers.. i think it's fun.. i see it as add on armor and it makes it even more of a puzzle.. i don't think there's a single parts former that i have a problem with.

same goes for the G1 combiners.. the add on parts REALLY help complete the look.. and i mean, hasbro has decided to shy away from doing things like the for the more recent combiners and we've all seen how that turned out.. but when a 3rd party creates add on parts (well, and a proper sized body robot) we've seen how much better combiners can be with add on parts.

if the extra parts are incorporated in some way with the alt mode(s) that's cool too, but it's not necessary and doesn't really sway my opinion one way or the other.. i get annoyed when people score a figure lower because it has parts that could get lost.. it's easy DON'T LOSE THE PART lol.. humans invented these neat little things called ziplock bags!

as far as MP-22 goes.. i couldn't care less if it was a parts former or a normal transformer, just as long as both modes are accurate.. which they are.

I'm not a big fan of parts forming to be honest, just like shell-formers its lazy engineering. Although I don't really consider the examples you've given to be true parts formers. It's perfectly acceptable for a bot combine with his trailer to form robot 'armour' or an enlarged robot mode or to have removable weapons which can be reattached.

Look I love G1, but that's where parts forming should stay, toy engineering has moved on significantly since the seventies. Would a G1 Omega Supreme really be acceptable if it was presented as a brand new TF today? I'm not sure.

To give you an example, I recently gave my son my original G1 Constructicon's, not 100% complete but all the parts were there to at least combine them to Devastator. In the time that he has had them the hip pegs have broken and he's lost the arms, so no more Devi.

Some parts formers are great, some are OK but others are hopeless, however all will be considerably effected once key components become lost, broken or stolen.

MightyMagnus78 wrote:Would an Omega supreme really be acceptable if it was presented as a brand new TF today? I'm not sure.

One of the most popular releases in recent years.

Burn wrote:

MightyMagnus78 wrote:Would an Omega supreme really be acceptable if it was presented as a brand new TF today? I'm not sure.

One of the most popular releases in recent years.

I meant G1 OS. Have now fixed.

Oh I know what you meant, but concept wise, there's not much difference between Original and Modern Omega Supremes.

I will agree with you about the Constructicons, relying on those little pieces of plastic to keep them together wasn't a good idea, but it was early technology. Even the Scramble City combiners could still have problems with their neck pieces.

I'm all about parts-forming if-and-only-if it'a incorporated into each mode. Something like the "Rage Of Hercules" where you can pretend to incorporate parts into all modes, but not really... That bugs me. But something like RiD Prime is pure genius.

RID Prime iirc was also designed by the guy who did Starsaber. And it's awesomeness shows.

Burn wrote:Oh I know what you meant, but concept wise, there's not much difference between Original and Modern Omega Supremes.

I will agree with you about the Constructicons, relying on those little pieces of plastic to keep them together wasn't a good idea, but it was early technology. Even the Scramble City combiners could still have problems with their neck pieces.

OK, I get it now. I'll be honest and say I don't own that Energon(?) OS mould, so can't really comment. However I bet he doesn't have stupid yellow clips to hold him together?

So I guess the conclusion here is then: Parts formers are OK so long as they are executed properly?

MightyMagnus78 wrote:OK, I get it now. I'll be honest and say I don't own that Energon(?) OS mould, so can't really comment. However I bet he doesn't have stupid yellow clips to hold him together?

No yellow clips, but he does have his flaws, primarily trying to get him to stand.

If you were to do a direct comparison between them, they probably would have roughly the same amount of pros and cons. Might be an idea for a future article, comparing old with new.

Burn wrote:

MightyMagnus78 wrote:OK, I get it now. I'll be honest and say I don't own that Energon(?) OS mould, so can't really comment. However I bet he doesn't have stupid yellow clips to hold him together?

No yellow clips, but he does have his flaws, primarily trying to get him to stand.

If you were to do a direct comparison between them, they probably would have roughly the same amount of pros and cons. Might be an idea for a future article, comparing old with new.

That's a fantastic idea, and with the 30th anniversary coming up it's probably the right time to do it.

Why stop there. You should do your own thrilling thirty but with a 'then' and 'now' comparison?

I'm fine with partsforming, as long as all the parts get used in both modes. As it's been said, the gestalts are sometimes annoying, because in the individual robot or vehicle modes of the components there's gestalt parts left over. I haven't seen it with Generations or the movie lines, but some 3rd party companies are guilty of this as well.

MightyMagnus78 wrote:That's a fantastic idea, and with the 30th anniversary coming up it's probably the right time to do it.

Why stop there. You should do your own thrilling thirty but with a 'then' and 'now' comparison?

Sounds like too much work.

I'll get Va'al to do it.

Burn wrote:

MightyMagnus78 wrote:That's a fantastic idea, and with the 30th anniversary coming up it's probably the right time to do it.

Why stop there. You should do your own thrilling thirty but with a 'then' and 'now' comparison?

Sounds like too much work.

I'll get Va'al to do it.

I'M a YAY on this: part forming is great and in a lot of cases, can improve the posability of the figure

I'll get that parforming masterpiece magnus and enjoy the heck out of him!

im fine with parts-forming as long as the parts do something for the alt mode and robot mode. if they help one mode but not the other that just irks me.

Parts-forming is probably hated because if you loose an "essential" piece, the figure will probably more likely look weird. I've always been a big fan of parts-forming figures! Maybe it is just the nostalgia or perhaps the thrill of going through friend's old childhood toy boxes, swap meets, eBay and now Botcon to complete a figure. I am all for it... so YAY!

MightyMagnus78 wrote:

Burn wrote:

MightyMagnus78 wrote:That's a fantastic idea, and with the 30th anniversary coming up it's probably the right time to do it.

Why stop there. You should do your own thrilling thirty but with a 'then' and 'now' comparison?

Sounds like too much work.

I'll get Va'al to do it.

We can talk about this..

Fire Convoy/RID Optimus Prime gets a pass because prior to 2000 he was various animals or about 5 years.

I think during the time of his release we overlooked the whole parts forming issue for him and Ultra Magnus. Armada Optimus Prime is a slightly different case since his parts forming was switching pants. Cybertron Optimus Prime I think takes the cake and the gold because he has so many homages going on at once again you forget his full mode is also parts forming.

I have no problem with parts forming so as long that is the accurate way of creating the toy from it's show, comic, or design.

I thought the description for MP Ultra Magnus stated that it can be transformed without parts-forming, while also having the cab able to transform into the smaller robot separately if desired?

MR Optimus Prime wrote:I thought the description for MP Ultra Magnus stated that it can be transformed without parts-forming, while also having the cab able to transform into the smaller robot separately if desired?

That's what I read.

For me, parts forming has a valid place in TF toy design when the parts are incorporated in multi use purposes.

Fire Convoy/RiD Optimus Prime is a great example of parts forming done well. You aren't left with an assortment of loose pieces of a toy if you decide not to armour up Optimus. The extra parts can be used to create a battle station.

For me it's simple, and the RID and Cybertron Primes you showed I have no issue with.

The simple question is: Can at least the basic robot be formed without removing parts and placing them somewhere else?

If the answer is "Yes", it's good in my book. In the case of Cybertron / Galaxy Force Prime (I don't have RID, I dunno), only the super mode 'backpack' is partsforming - and that's only for the calf pieces. The rest is one big block.

However, if the entire thing is basically a LEGO set, like (in my ever so humble opinion) Energon Omega Supreme and repaints... umm, no thank you.

Gun is a part of the alt mode but partsforms to fit the hand? No problem. Arms and legs partsform? No thank you.

I should note that numerous G1's get a "bye" on this, simply because the toy engineering wasn't there, and even the entire "transforming robot" paradigm hadn't settled. G1 Omega Supreme, the fists/hips/chestplate of Devastator, I can deal with those simply because of what they represented to future figs.

I have no issue with parts-forming as long as all parts are incorporated in the various modes.

Where I really dislike parts-forming is in the case of the old G1 stuff where I needed a bag to store all the extra bits that were essential to one mode or the other, typically bot mode.

For some G1 figures, especially the gestalts, they at least tried to incorporate the extras into "battle modes". Things like seeker hands are the extra parts that really bugged me.

RID Prime is an example of good parts-forming. Like G1 Ultra Magnus, all the parts form an armor around a central bot. It is a warrior donning an extra suit of armor, not "Oh, crap! Where is my left hand?"

I dislike parts forming. I would rather have everything attached. It's harder to lose pieces and easier to display figures that way. Don't get me wrong, it won't dissuade me from buying a figure though.

I love parts-formers, allows for greater engineering on a figure without worrying about the extra parts until later

This makes me want an RiD Optimus.

Ugh, RID Omega Prime I would actually say is one example of parts forming NOT to follow due to poor weight distribution and insecure connection points caused by a weird spinal structure, as well as several other compromises to accommodate it all.

As a general rule though the only places I tolerate parts-formers is in combiners and armor up type characters, and in both cases only so long as the individual mechs don't require parts-forming to convert back and forth between their base robot and alternate modes.

Ultra Magnus is something of a conundrum in this regard as I realize what would otherwise be considered his armored up mode is actually portrayed as his true robot mode in most primary fiction, but at the end of the day there's no denying G1 Magnus is a white Convoy in a big suit, or... well a white somebody in a big suit if IDW is anything to go off of.

I tend to run on a case-by-case basis, but in general, I;m not a fan. Now, caes like RID Landfill guys where a shovel becomes a weapon, I'm fine with. And I think the reason we are okay with RID Prime is because there's a perfectly acceptable robot mode in there without cheating. And one that is "acceptable". as Optimus Prime.

On the other hand, I sold my CIty Commander and Ultra Magnus figures. He looked cool, but he was more annoying to me to transform than anyhing else because of all the pieces. And yes, "Naked Magnus" is an acceptable figure on its own, but its not "Ultra Magnus" like we see all the time. Its like seeing your favorite Football player without 300lbs of shoulder pads. Different person. If I have to transform someone with that many steps, I'd rather see it integrated. And Fire Prime, I tended to leave him unassembled anyway, but we also saw his basic mode as much as we saw the armor mode, so its a different case. (for me)

GuyIncognito wrote:

MR Optimus Prime wrote:I thought the description for MP Ultra Magnus stated that it can be transformed without parts-forming, while also having the cab able to transform into the smaller robot separately if desired?

That's what I read.

Right now, as far as we can tell, MP22 is a large-scale Titaniums Ultra Magnus

Parts-forming doesnt bother me if done right but i still prefer non part formers. G1 seekers & power/headmasters are the best examples of bad part formers, needing to take important parts like hands off then set them aside somewhere to play with the alt mode is a terrible idea. In the case of the masters needing a part to allow it to transform or be a complete robot is a really bad idea, the point of a transformer is to transform it from alt to robot but you cant do that if you lose the toys little buddy. And if its a head master then you have a headless robot, some might find this appealing but i dont. Yes i know some of you are saying "just press the little button" & "they make replacements now" but thats not the point here and back in the day we didnt have 3rd party replacements.

Now on the other hand when done right you can get a pretty cool figure, case in point RID prime. Everything sites nice and neat in alt mode but then when you transform him you can have either a robot & a base or just a giant robot. Nothing is just thrown aside to sit there & get lost like G1 prowls shoulder launchers or the extra parts needed to for a gestalt. RID magnus is another good example, you take the trailer off but it turns into his legs so again not sitting for long. Id rather see parts-forming become a thing of the past cause theres always that chance something is going to get lost or broken but as long as we dont get anymore G1 style ones i can live with it.

joevill wrote:Maybe it is just the nostalgia or perhaps the thrill of going through friend's old childhood toy boxes, swap meets, eBay and now Botcon to complete a figure.

When I got back into collecting TF's a bit over ten years ago, this was one of the things I enjoyed most. Tracking down all those little bits and pieces to slowly complete a figure.

That being said, Scorponok was a bitch to complete because prices for his smaller parts are ridiculous!

Yay.

Parts-forming has it's charm. Omega, Super Fire Convoy, nor Ginrai, would never be as interesting to me, without the quality of splitting into a couple dozen pieces, then magically reconstituting in thin air.

parts forming works well with add on armour, combiners, city bots and bases like omega supreme
but since the early days there were advances in engineering so no need for fist or any small piece to be removed for transformation, i'm all for it. What i am not for is shellformers!

Ultra Markus wrote:parts forming works well with add on armour, combiners, city bots and bases like omega supreme
but since the early days there were advances in engineering so no need for fist or any small piece to be removed for transformation, i'm all for it. What i am not for is shellformers!

The two non-gimmick traits that I don't like:- Shellforming and Faux Parts.

Shellforming is just too lazy. And Faux Parts is cheating beyond a normal form of cheating. Which is why I hate DOTM primes.

zwann wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:parts forming works well with add on armour, combiners, city bots and bases like omega supreme
but since the early days there were advances in engineering so no need for fist or any small piece to be removed for transformation, i'm all for it. What i am not for is shellformers!

The two non-gimmick traits that I don't like:- Shellforming and Faux Parts.

Shellforming is just too lazy. And Faux Parts is cheating beyond a normal form of cheating. Which is why I hate DOTM primes.

Oh yeah, i forgot about the Faux parts i really don't like those either!
a good example: Prime Smokescreen

I find partsforming quite annoying myself. I like the idea of a Transformer toy being able to "believably" transform in one piece without swapping bits and pieces. It just bugs me.

That said, I don't mind partsforming so much when the bits actually have somewhere to go. RID prime, for example, has his base mode, which is pretty cool and a good way of keeping everything together.

I'd say one example of partsforming done sort of right but wrong in other ways is the Fansproject Bruticus. Combined, he's awesome. However, the individual robot modes are somewhat terrible with all those bits of combiner stuck onto them. The fact that you have to swap weapons between the individual bots when transforming them from robot to vehicle mode (so essentially you can't transform one without transforming them all) is really annoying, and I can't help but feel the robots were sort of used as dumping grounds for the parts.

Swindle and Blast Off aren't so bad, as they just need to have their own weapon and one extra weapon (I give Swindle a bazooka and Blast Off one of the hand things, which I like to think are multi-barreled flamethrowers) but Vortex has his massive shoulder rocket pods which, whilst cool on paper, are a pain in the arse- especially in copter mode, Brawl just looks kinda goofy duel wielding enormous guns (although the tank mode looks a lot better with the bazookas instead of the recommended rifles) and Onslaught comes out by far the worst, with a great big double-barreled cannon that strains even his might arm ratchets and also has that irritating crotch-plate (which loves to fall off), a gun whose stock stops him from holding it forward, and those Unicron-spawned rocket pods/feet, which NEVER STAY ON HIS SHOULDERS and also severely restrict arm articulation. To his credit, the vehicle mode is brilliant and manages to be totally different from his (already cool) missile truck mode.

It's a shame, because the parts are really good quality, the 2 robots are really good (with the exception of Blast off's loose waist...) and aside from the habit of falling apart, the combined mode is great. But the fact that the individual Combaticons end up being hindered so much is a let down, as is the massive amount of parts leprosy required when transforming any of the Combaticons into any other mode. Now I know most people will just display him in combined mode, but for me as someone who cherishes and plays with his toys, that's not good enough. If I just wanted a really big robot I'd get a single big robot. The whole point of a combiner is that it's multiple toys that turn into one bigger toy.

It's still a good set, and I commend it for what it did right, but the partsforming majorly detracted from it in my book.