TFC Toy's Project Hercules Combined Weapons Image

Hey,

TFC...

No one cares until you show us final pics of all six figures and have some guaranteed orders up for them. Get a clue.

Counterpunch wrote:Hey,

TFC...

No one cares until you show us final pics of all six figures and have some guaranteed orders up for them. Get a clue.

Agreed 100%.

The fact that they keep throwing us breadcrumbs (I actually misread the title, and ignored the 'weapons' part of the 'combined weapons mode' - thought we might see the actual gestalt) makes me think that the latter parts of the set are still in development, and there isn't a fully detailed render of the later ones in the set in existence at this time.

Any business would have risen to Maketoy's bait by showing their full version by now, so I'm calling shenanigans on TFC on this one.

Yeah, Maketoys' version has the parts blurred out for the moment, but the combined mode is what I'm getting it for, and that looks great so far. Scale with the FP combiner upgrades is a further bonus, so I'm still going for that over this.

As an additional aside, the plastic on Engraver looks cheap and stress-prone (kind of like the Xovergen Prime that made it out a while back) - I'm gonna wait and review when TFC are at least 4 or 5 figs deep in this before I get on board.

I'm Really digging the combination rifle gimmick.

That's swell, TFClub. Now sell us a finished and complete product for <$400 without your typical QC issues and we'll talk.

It's a nice gun, don't get me wrong. But the gauntlet was thrown an this is all they brought to the table?

Ironically, this is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

zodconvoy wrote:It's a nice gun, don't get me wrong. But the gauntlet was thrown an this is all they brought to the table?

Ironically, this is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Be to fair, I don't think this is any kind of response really. This was pulled off of who I assume is probably a TFC designer's personal weibo page, it wasn't even on TFC's weibo page. I agree they do need to get some images of Bonecrusher and Mixmaster out ASAP.

I'm not going to say I don't care, because it is a cool bullet point. It's just a cool bullet point that should have come months ago.

But more importantly: TFClub, the drip feed of information is only an easy way to build excitement when you're the only game in town. When you have to directly share the spotlight it becomes a delicate game of keeping the playing field level between your pros and cons and theirs.

Have you noticed Maketoys hasn't even announced a time frame or ballpark price? They managed to get people that excited over the accuracy and pushed keeping it in scale as a plus. And what have you done to level off?

Your price was always a tough sell. But never showing a complete set (read: never confirming you're committed to finishing) is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Show us the dang completed bot.

Counterpunch wrote:Hey,

TFC...

No one cares until you show us final pics of all six figures and have some guaranteed orders up for them. Get a clue.

And this is why I'm putting my money towards the Make Toys version.

I really thought TFC would have scrambled and posted pics of all 6 figures after Make Toys released images of a COMPLETE combiner.

Instead, we're still getting snippets of the thing. All this will do is hurt TFC in the long run.

Well, that is a pretty sweet combining gun. But yeah, not enough to make me want this set any more.

I agree with not showing all six and a combined for, but I'm guesing that they need the income from the first few figures to pay for the development of the rest. Also, I hope this doesn't turn out like these Godzilla statues I had been picking up a few years ago. The first in the series was Godzilla, and it was supposed to be a 9 peice set with interlocking bases that would have all the monsters from Destroy All Monsters. They never got past the second one, King Ghidorah. If I chunk down cash for this first figure and it's crap and they finish the series, I do'nt have to get them all. If I get the first one and it's great, and then they don't finish the series, then I'll be ticked.

The weapon combining thing freaking rocks!

not to take tfc's side nut its alot easier to make a 3d render and release it for all to see than to actually make the figure (materials,molds,etc..) so i say give it a little time.
also just maketoys had their stuff shown with fp help doesnt automatically = high quality besides with all the other stuff theyve announced it may be a very long time before we see anything.

just a thought

I think the release schedule looks a little disappointing. I was kind of hoping to be able to build Devastator up piece by piece like recreating the scenes from the comics of Devastator under construction. But if I got the release schedule correct it doesn't look possible until the 3rd or 4th figures are released.
Still waiting to pre-order though.

Too little and a lot too late.

YAY! I think those that called this one deserve a cookie! While it's cool that they do combine, I can't say it looks particularly amazing. Maybe it'll look better in Hercules' hand.

As for TFClub not rising to MakeToy's challenge: I think it's all a load of crap. It seems like TFClub and MakeToy are just doing their own thing at their own pace and its the fans that are trying to turn it into a fight.

It makes me care... but only a little. I'm still committed, but a bit of that is because MT hasn't released any preorder yet.

Apparently there's a big toy show in Guangzhou on 07/21 and TFC will be there. Cross your fingers for news on Mixmaster and Bonecrusher.

I hope you are right El Duque! It would be wonderful to see a complete Hercules. I am anxious on whether or not there will be a purple chest wing. Of course they could go without for the IDW look, but including it as an option that the collector could use or not depending on their tastes would be nice.
Otherwise I guess the only option would be to hope that another 3rd party group makes one as an add on. Joy, 3rd party upgrade for 3rd party transformers...

Counterpunch wrote:Hey,

TFC...

No one cares until you show us final pics of all six figures and have some guaranteed orders up for them. Get a clue.

I care.

NaM3L3sS wrote:Any business would have risen to Maketoy's bait by showing their full version by now, so I'm calling shenanigans on TFC on this one.

You're assuming that these 3rd party companies are competing against each other.

Sodan-1 wrote:As for TFClub not rising to MakeToy's challenge: I think it's all a load of crap. It seems like TFClub and MakeToy are just doing their own thing at their own pace and its the fans that are trying to turn it into a fight.

I agree with Sodan-1. I find it ridiculous that people are thinking that these companies have any interest in competing against each other. It wouldn't benefit any one 3rd party product company to dominate the market. Considering that it's a niche market and that it's undoubtedly being watched closely by Hasbro and TakaraTomy, I'm sure TFC and MakeToy are only concerned with doing the best work they can to bring fan-centric creations to the public while they are able to. Why would companies who are seemingly motivated by their own fandom of Transformers be pre-occupied with going head to head with other companies who have the same intent?

"Hercules" and "Build" are two different designs with different portions of consumers that they're going to appeal to. Hercules is a larger scaled combiner with a different aesthetic and presumably more expensive than Build. If both products were of the same scale and possessed the same aesthetic, then it could be reasonably claimed that they'd vie for the same sales.

We, as fans of Transformers, should be thankful that we are not only receiving the opportunity for one but two "idealized" versions of Devastator that we are not likely to see from Hasbro/TakaraTomy any time soon. Instead, we have the usual cynicism and non-productive posts that aim to tear down something. If people are going to bitch and moan about how bad Hasbro/TakaraTomy's various combiner lines have been, they shouldn't bitch and moan about independent companies doing their best to bring better combiner products to the market.

Whoever, here or elsewhere on other discussion boards, are saying that they doubt TFC will complete the Hercules set and are jumping ship to MakeToys' product instead...do you not see that lack of support will make your speculation reality? The Hercules project is ambitious. It proposes to produce several large Deluxe/small Voyager class sized figures that combine. I'm sure that TFC is depending on some of the revenue from sales of the first few figures to help finalize production on the rest of the figures.

I'm supporting both companies by purchasing their products. I, for one, am grateful for the chance to possess two variations of the Devastator design that Hasbro/TakaraTomy would never consider producing. Even if one or both combiner projects don't get completed, I can say I did my part in supporting products meant for fans.

Convotron, I think for some reason you've confused competing with ACTIVELY competing. The very fact that these 2 companies are in the same niche market and are producing similar products(regardless of aesthetic or whether it's intentional) not working together on a single product means they are competing for consumer dollars.

They just aren't being active about it(like Apple and Microsoft with Apple's style of commercials or showing that they're striving to produce one before the other has theirs on the market), at least not publically.

I understand your point, Midnight_Fox, but my issue with some of the posts here and at other forums is that people are under the impression that there is ACTIVE and DIRECT competition between the two companies. As Sodan-1 said, some fans seem to see this as some sort of fight between two 3rd party product companies.

What I don't get is that Hasbro works with third party companies for the G.I.joe line. Sideshow Collectibles makes those insanely detailed 12 inch Joes. Why can't they do something similar with Transformers? I mean take, for example, FansProject and say here are our plans for this year do what ever upgrade sets or other figures you want to do and give us your plan. Then Hasbro could approve or deny any designs. This way some of these third party items could be official, just not made by Hasbro. I think this type of venture would appeal to the same market as the Sideshow Collectibles Joes, which has already seen a good measure of success.

Convotron wrote:I understand your point, Midnight_Fox, but my issue with some of the posts here and at other forums is that people are under the impression that there is ACTIVE and DIRECT competition between the two companies. As Sodan-1 said, some fans seem to see this as some sort of fight between two 3rd party product companies.

I agree. I doubt there's more going on here than coincidence and independently being inspired to make the same concept. Anything else wouldn't explain Maketoy's version being so far along.

Axalon_Prime wrote:What I don't get is that Hasbro works with third party companies for the G.I.joe line. Sideshow Collectibles makes those insanely detailed 12 inch Joes. Why can't they do something similar with Transformers? I mean take, for example, FansProject and say here are our plans for this year do what ever upgrade sets or other figures you want to do and give us your plan. Then Hasbro could approve or deny any designs. This way some of these third party items could be official, just not made by Hasbro. I think this type of venture would appeal to the same market as the Sideshow Collectibles Joes, which has already seen a good measure of success.

That question was asked before and even has an official answer:

Hasbro stated that they could not guarantee that a company other than them are capable of producing a quality Transformers figure.

Dead Metal wrote:Hasbro stated that they could not guarantee that a company other than them are capable of producing a quality Transformers figure.

What fools.

Convotron wrote:I understand your point, Midnight_Fox, but my issue with some of the posts here and at other forums is that people are under the impression that there is ACTIVE and DIRECT competition between the two companies. As Sodan-1 said, some fans seem to see this as some sort of fight between two 3rd party product companies.

You think that when maketoys showed their complete not bruticus picture and 90% of the preorders at bbts(for the other one) cancelled, it wasn't an attempt to let people know that their was another version coming out...possibly better...possibly cheaper....a little heads up so people will take a wait and see approach and save 100 bucks at the same time? Not only is that public...but it's active. If they weren't smart enough to know it would work, then they surely will the next time.

We've been getting too many duplicate 3rd party products at virtually the same time to be coincidence.

Maketoys and TFC are both making Devestators.
iGear and Maketoys are both making minibots.
iGear and Impossible both made Arcees.
Fansprojects ands BTS both made traielrs.

And more. Seems like direct competition to me.

Decisions, decisions.

It took a lot of humming and hawwing, but I cancelled my preorder for exgraver. I disliked the idea of Devastator standing heads and shoulders above my other gestalts. The Maketoys one is better in scale with them and so that'll be be my Devastator of choice.

Of course I reserve the right to reverse my decision at any time

I hope preorders for MT's Devastator happen soon. I might get both, or might not. Either way, looks like my Devvy-equipped G1 Devastator's going back to the 'miscellaneous' shelf.

Mkall wrote:It took a lot of humming and hawwing, but I cancelled my preorder for exgraver. I disliked the idea of Devastator standing heads and shoulders above my other gestalts. The Maketoys one is better in scale with them and so that'll be be my Devastator of choice.

Of course I reserve the right to reverse my decision at any time

Ditto, there's even a ready made place waiting. Superion has no idea

moneycon wrote:You think that when maketoys showed their complete not bruticus picture and 90% of the preorders at bbts(for the other one) cancelled, it wasn't an attempt to let people know that their was another version coming out...possibly better...possibly cheaper....a little heads up so people will take a wait and see approach and save 100 bucks at the same time? Not only is that public...but it's active. If they weren't smart enough to know it would work, then they surely will the next time.

I don't know if I'm reading your sentence right but I'll make an attempt to respond by saying that if MakeToys really wanted to compete head to head against TFC, they would have leaked photos of their combiner's WiP figures soon after TFC made their combiner known to the public.

People who have the financial means to buy a $600 combiner, who are willing to risk dealing with possible QC issues due to TFC's good but not great track record, and like the idea of a larger Devastator are probably going to consider buying the Hercules combiner.

People who are reluctant to spend $600 or more on a combiner, who are hoping that MakeToys' connection to FansProject will give greater assurance of good QC, and who prefer a combiner that is more in scale with their existing combiner sets are probably going to consider buying the Build combiner.

Convotron wrote:I don't know if I'm reading your sentence right but I'll make an attempt to respond by saying that if MakeToys really wanted to compete head to head against TFC, they would have leaked photos of their combiner's WiP figures soon after TFC made their combiner known to the public.

Or shortly after pre-orders went up for the first TFC figure...prior to that there was no need to show anything.

These guys are in competition with each other if for no other reason than many people can't afford both. They may not have started out with the intention of competing with one another, but that's where they're at now. If there were only one option, that release probably would have been hugely successful. Now one or both could be in danger of breaking even, much less making a healthy profit.

Kibble wrote:

Convotron wrote:I don't know if I'm reading your sentence right but I'll make an attempt to respond by saying that if MakeToys really wanted to compete head to head against TFC, they would have leaked photos of their combiner's WiP figures soon after TFC made their combiner known to the public.

Or shortly after pre-orders went up for the first TFC figure...prior to that there was no need to show anything.

These guys are in competition with each other if for no other reason than many people can't afford both. They may not have started out with the intention of competing with one another, but that's where they're at now. If there were only one option, that release probably would have been hugely successful. Now one or both could be in danger of breaking even, much less making a healthy profit.

It is sad, but I have to agree. As someone who prefers the TFC version, I am rather worried at the hordes of people who cancelled the preorder for Exgraver in favour of Maketoy's Giant. I hope the drop in profits doesn't sink the project. Like it or not these two designs are competing for the rather limited TF fandom dollar. Kudos to those who are getting both. I honestly cannot afford one of them, but got talked into it, lol.

Kibble wrote:Or shortly after pre-orders went up for the first TFC figure...prior to that there was no need to show anything.

These guys are in competition with each other if for no other reason than many people can't afford both. They may not have started out with the intention of competing with one another, but that's where they're at now. If there were only one option, that release probably would have been hugely successful. Now one or both could be in danger of breaking even, much less making a healthy profit.

I don't think that success would be guaranteed even if there was just one 3rd party Devastator option. Before MakeToys' combiner was announced, many people were seemingly on the fence about pre-ordering Exgraver. It sounded like some people were needing to re-arrange their budgets significantly if they wanted to prepare for buying all the Hercules combiner figures. The prohibitively high price of the completed Hercules means that only a relatively small portion of the already narrow market of Transformers collectors would be buying it. At least with MakeToys' Giant/Build/whatever they decide to call it should be cheaper as it's smaller.

Now that we have two 3rd party Devastator options, people who couldn't afford Hercules now have a chance to get another idealized version of Devastator.

Dread_Wing wrote:It is sad, but I have to agree. As someone who prefers the TFC version, I am rather worried at the hordes of people who cancelled the preorder for Exgraver in favour of Maketoy's Giant. I hope the drop in profits doesn't sink the project. Like it or not these two designs are competing for the rather limited TF fandom dollar. Kudos to those who are getting both. I honestly cannot afford one of them, but got talked into it, lol.

To be honest, I don't know how many people who pre-ordered Exgraver were both willing and able to complete the Hercules set. Even if no one cancelled their pre-order, if Exgraver didn't meet and/or exceed expectations, many people who bought Exgraver probably wouldn't continue to commit money to the other figures of the set.

I think TFC's primary concern shouldn't be MakeToy's combiner. Rather, TFC should be certain that their first entry for the Hercules set be able to deliver the goods. It has to be a toy with good engineering and design, good QC, and demonstrates the potential for the combined form. If Exgraver is a solid product then the people who can afford the set will continue to buy the figures and word will spread that the combiner set should deliver even if it's an expensive investment.

It really sucks that Exgraver turned out to be this expensive. It does not appear to be that expensive at the source in China, so it all comes down to import fees and the markups being put on it by the retailers. Fansproject seems to exercise some kind of price control, it is a real pity TFC seems to lack that ability/leverage. If we were talking about a 55-70 dollar toy rather than a 100 dollar one, it would make an enormous difference. I bought mine from Robotkingdom, sending to NZ, so it worked out to less than 100 nzd shipped.

Convotron wrote:I don't think that success would be guaranteed even if there was just one 3rd party Devastator option. Before MakeToys' combiner was announced, many people were seemingly on the fence about pre-ordering Exgraver. It sounded like some people were needing to re-arrange their budgets significantly if they wanted to prepare for buying all the Hercules combiner figures. The prohibitively high price of the completed Hercules means that only a relatively small portion of the already narrow market of Transformers collectors would be buying it. At least with MakeToys' Giant/Build/whatever they decide to call it should be cheaper as it's smaller.

Now that we have two 3rd party Devastator options, people who couldn't afford Hercules now have a chance to get another idealized version of Devastator.

TFC's only real obstacle was themselves. If their QC was at least decent, their figs ultimately woulda sold out when they were the only show in town.

As for your other point...that's only in theory. We don't know how much more affordable MT's will be. Seems logical they'll be in the same price range as FP due to their ties, but they're not FP so it's all speculative that their pricing will be the same.

Kibble wrote:
TFC's only real obstacle was themselves. If their QC was at least decent, their figs ultimately woulda sold out when they were the only show in town.

As far as QC goes, the first reviews of Exgraver will show us that. From the pics it seems to be constructed simply and solidly as you would expect from a combiner component. Where they could have put a little fancy detail in that could potentially be fragile, they didn't. But the proof will come when it is in hand. A couple of good reviews from Vangelus or Peaugh for example would count for an awful lot.

Kibble wrote:TFC's only real obstacle was themselves. If their QC was at least decent, their figs ultimately woulda sold out when they were the only show in town.

As for your other point...that's only in theory. We don't know how much more affordable MT's will be. Seems logical they'll be in the same price range as FP due to their ties, but they're not FP so it's all speculative that their pricing will be the same.

True, if TFC had a good record of QC in their products, more people would have been willing to gamble on a $100 figure for a $600 combiner set.

If MT isn't willing or able to price their individual combiner figures for $50-$60 or less then hopefully they are able to provide some design features that help justify a higher price.

I still want both, the MakeToys one for my classics shelf and the TFC one simply because it's damn impressive.

Dead Metal wrote:I still want both, the MakeToys one for my classics shelf and the TFC one simply because it's damn impressive.

You and me both. This is exactly what I'll be doing.

sorry if this has already been adressed, but anybody can tell me how tall is the is the combined TFC going to be? thx.

_Devastator_ wrote:sorry if this has already been adressed, but anybody can tell me how tall is the is the combined TFC going to be? thx.

As far as I could tell it hasn't been officially determined or announced but the general consensus appears to be at 16". Sorry if I've misinterpreted that from reading this thread.

I was at Frank & Sons today (a mini toy con near Los Angeles) and was asking the transformer seller about him stocking the TFC version. He said he was looking to price them at $90-95 dollars so if you have access to that place that may be a good deal. I believe he doesn;t charge tax or anything either. Also he said he has the full prototype on his possesion but didn't have space to showcase it yet. I was a little skeptical about it but it seems the other pieces are finished if he's got a full proto.

moop2000 wrote:I was at Frank & Sons today (a mini toy con near Los Angeles) and was asking the transformer seller about him stocking the TFC version. He said he was looking to price them at $90-95 dollars so if you have access to that place that may be a good deal. I believe he doesn;t charge tax or anything either. Also he said he has the full prototype on his possesion but didn't have space to showcase it yet. I was a little skeptical about it but it seems the other pieces are finished if he's got a full proto.

A full prototype of Exgraver or Hercules? I can understand him having Exgraver, what with it shipping next week, but all of Hercules? I am skeptical too.

Dread_Wing wrote:

moop2000 wrote:I was at Frank & Sons today (a mini toy con near Los Angeles) and was asking the transformer seller about him stocking the TFC version. He said he was looking to price them at $90-95 dollars so if you have access to that place that may be a good deal. I believe he doesn;t charge tax or anything either. Also he said he has the full prototype on his possesion but didn't have space to showcase it yet. I was a little skeptical about it but it seems the other pieces are finished if he's got a full proto.

A full prototype of Exgraver or Hercules? I can understand him having Exgraver, what with it shipping next week, but all of Hercules? I am skeptical too.

You know what, I didn't think to ask that but you are probably right about it just being Exgraver. Sorry for the mini-hype. I will say his price point is outstanding though.

Then again he said he didn't have room to display it? Room to display a deluxe/voyager? They aren't THAT big, so maybe he was talking about Hercules. It could be that uncertainty about the project being completed resulting from the fact we haven't seen Mixmaster or Bonecrusher has hurt his sales. He could be lying and saying he has a completed prototype to try to give potential customers confidence to buy Exgraver.

Isn't speculation fun? lol.

Now my head is spinning. And it's my own fault.

No, I can't believe for a second there's a full prototype of a completed Hercules in some random shop owner's possession, yet there are no photos of the thing on the interwebz anywhere. He meant just Exgraver...either that or he was lying.

Kibble wrote:No, I can't believe for a second there's a full prototype of a completed Hercules in some random shop owner's possession, yet there are no photos of the thing on the interwebz anywhere. He meant just Exgraver...either that or he was lying.

I'm thinking this too. With all the demands to see pics of a full completed Hercules, TFC should already have shown pics if all the figures are ready. It'll be silly not to when so many of their potential customers are right now sitting on the fence.