Transformers: The Last Knight Video Trailer Rated

I don't know why it would not be Quintessa I mean look at the right on the leaked Infernocus package.




I'm pretty damn sure she is a character in the movie.

Deadput wrote:Guys Bwtf has a lot more story spoilers in his post if your like me and into that sort of thing.

http://bwtf.com/events/paramount-super-fan-day-2

Edit: holy crap General Morshower is back I liked his character in ROTF and DOTM! Also Dinobot Slug is back as well so so far it's not just Grimlock

I can confirm those as well. This article was one of the more difficult to write because they asked us to comment about what we saw but not divulge specifics which put us in between a rock and a hard spot. I picked a few specifics and kept quiet about the rest, unsure of how much to say. Once a few more things are out, I'll compile all of what we know so far.

Deadput wrote:I think when people want more "character" their talking about screen-time and lines which we definitely got in the last movie with Optimus (as always), Crosshairs, Hound, Lockdown.

Bumblebee was a bit less of a screen hog in Aoe with Hound pretty much taking his place in the movie and Drift was good too although he got the less screen time out of all the main Autobots in that movie doesn't help that it's difficult to make a stoic personality stick out compared to loud or snarky ones such as Hound and Crosshairs.

The only characters I felt needing more screen time were The Dinobots (Although I understand since they show up at the end of the movie not much time to develop character there although a line or two from Grimlock would help at least Grimlock is coming back) and some more screemtime or at least some action scenes to make Stinger stand out more then he actually did in the final film since it's obvious compared to what we saw during filming that several scenes with Stinger were cut out of the movie.

Oh true, characters are certainly important and AoE making its Autobot cast stand out a lot more compared to the previous movies was certainly an improvement - while action should be prioritised, one should also make an effort to have the characters stand out a little and be enjoyable and likeable. Nothing groundbreaking or full of depth; but just someone that you might be able to relate to on some small level and someone who you're rooting for when they're taking the fight to the bad guys. So you can certainly criticise these movies for not having likeable, enjoyable characters if that's how you feel (it's personally how I feel; I find Optimus in these movies to be an extremely unlikable character for instance - but that's not the point I'm making here and I won't bore you all by going into why).

What I was getting at is that a lot of people seem to criticise the movie for having plots and characters that lack depth. But, as I keep saying, that's generally how action movies work best. It's not where you look for your deeply impactful stories or something that will re-define cinema for generations or have characters the like of which you've never seen before. I mean hey, maybe these movies do do that for you; I dunno. If they do, all the power to you! But for those complaining that they don't... this is a summer action blockbuster. You go in, you have fun, you get out. That's generally the point, so I don't see much worth in complaining that the first movie's story was simple or that Hound doesn't have a deeply developed backstory. One of the few points I'll agree with Bay on is that ROTF having an overly-complex mythos was a detriment because it's distracting from what should be the focus; the action.

Kurona wrote:Oh true, characters are certainly important and AoE making its Autobot cast stand out a lot more compared to the previous movies was certainly an improvement - while action should be prioritised, one should also make an effort to have the characters stand out a little and be enjoyable and likeable. Nothing groundbreaking or full of depth; but just someone that you might be able to relate to on some small level and someone who you're rooting for when they're taking the fight to the bad guys. So you can certainly criticise these movies for not having likeable, enjoyable characters if that's how you feel (it's personally how I feel; I find Optimus in these movies to be an extremely unlikable character for instance - but that's not the point I'm making here and I won't bore you all by going into why).

What I was getting at is that a lot of people seem to criticise the movie for having plots and characters that lack depth. But, as I keep saying, that's generally how action movies work best. It's not where you look for your deeply impactful stories or something that will re-define cinema for generations or have characters the like of which you've never seen before. I mean hey, maybe these movies do do that for you; I dunno. If they do, all the power to you! But for those complaining that they don't... this is a summer action blockbuster. You go in, you have fun, you get out. That's generally the point, so I don't see much worth in complaining that the first movie's story was simple or that Hound doesn't have a deeply developed backstory. One of the few points I'll agree with Bay on is that ROTF having an overly-complex mythos was a detriment because it's distracting from what should be the focus; the action.

I like Optimus in the movies it's a different take on the character without being too far off although like many others the "Give me your face!" line was a bit jarring but I just chalk that up to bad writing due to the writers strike Optimus has not said anything as extreme since besides the "I'll kill you!" line he says to a random drone in Aoe which I can ignore a bit since saying you'll kill someone doesn't necessarily mean their blood thirsty.

A problem I think many people have is that they expect the same amount of story (or lack of), personality and lodes and lodes of characters of a 50 or more episode cartoon compressed into a two hour or longer movie.

Unless you keep with a small cast of characters like Aoe or Movie 1 there isn't going to be enough time or budget to concentrate on every specific character while moving the plot forward.

Also people keep thinking that human characters and Transformers are something to be judge separately and although it's easy to fall into that mindset human characters are still an important part of the Transformers franchise and there are main human characters with the Transformers.

For example main characters of movie 1: Sam, Mikaela, Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Lennox and Megatron(ish) most movies only have about 2 to 5 main character and as much as we love all the other Transformers most of them have to be side characters in the context of a movie.

Same with the G1 cartoon most of the Autobots were not main characters with the exception of thier spotlight episodes which not even everyone got (Where were Sideswipe, Prowl or Skywarp's) with the human Spike being more important then most of them since he was one of the main characters.



Edit: Just wanted to say that at least when Bay or a script writer (They exist too not all the blame should be on Bay) make a mistake they almost never repeat them for example no Wheelie humping or Devastators wrecking balls in later sequels.

Seibertron wrote:

Deadput wrote:Guys Bwtf has a lot more story spoilers in his post if your like me and into that sort of thing.

http://bwtf.com/events/paramount-super-fan-day-2

Edit: holy crap General Morshower is back I liked his character in ROTF and DOTM! Also Dinobot Slug is back as well so so far it's not just Grimlock

I can confirm those as well. This article was one of the more difficult to write because they asked us to comment about what we saw but not divulge specifics which put us in between a rock and a hard spot. I picked a few specifics and kept quiet about the rest, unsure of how much to say. Once a few more things are out, I'll compile all of what we know so far.

If there is ever a point I post something I shouldn't here in my enthusiasm due to contracts that you guys have or something just let me know and I'll delete my post.

Deadput wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Deadput wrote:Guys Bwtf has a lot more story spoilers in his post if your like me and into that sort of thing.

http://bwtf.com/events/paramount-super-fan-day-2

Edit: holy crap General Morshower is back I liked his character in ROTF and DOTM! Also Dinobot Slug is back as well so so far it's not just Grimlock

I can confirm those as well. This article was one of the more difficult to write because they asked us to comment about what we saw but not divulge specifics which put us in between a rock and a hard spot. I picked a few specifics and kept quiet about the rest, unsure of how much to say. Once a few more things are out, I'll compile all of what we know so far.

If there is ever a point I post something I shouldn't here in my enthusiasm due to contracts that you guys have or something just let me know and I'll delete my post.

Don't worry, I'll let you know. You're all good.

Seibertron wrote:
If there is ever a point I post something I shouldn't here in my enthusiasm due to contracts that you guys have or something just let me know and I'll delete my post.

Don't worry, I'll let you know. You're all good. [/quote]

Thanks anyways I was wondering if anyone else from Seibertron went to the event or if it was just you?

Deadput wrote:Thanks anyways I was wondering if anyone else from Seibertron went to the event or if it was just you?

It was just me from Seibertron.com along with one representative each from bwtf.com, unicron.com, tfwiki.net, tfw2005.com, tformers.com, allspark.com, and Marcelo Matere! The rest of the group was filled out with Michael Bay superfans and Transformers fans from around the world.

Seibertron wrote:

Deadput wrote:Thanks anyways I was wondering if anyone else from Seibertron went to the event or if it was just you?

It was just me from Seibertron.com along with one representative each from bwtf.com, unicron.com, tfwiki.net, tfw2005.com, tformers.com, allspark.com, and Marcelo Matere! The rest of the group was filled out with Michael Bay superfans and Transformers fans from around the world.

Bay superfans eh? Wonder if I missed my invite in the mail



Oh and perhaps Sly too if anyone in the world is a superfan it's that guy.

Deadput wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Deadput wrote:Thanks anyways I was wondering if anyone else from Seibertron went to the event or if it was just you?

It was just me from Seibertron.com along with one representative each from bwtf.com, unicron.com, tfwiki.net, tfw2005.com, tformers.com, allspark.com, and Marcelo Matere! The rest of the group was filled out with Michael Bay superfans and Transformers fans from around the world.

Bay superfans eh? Wonder if I missed my invite in the mail



Oh and perhaps Sly too if anyone in the world is a superfan it's that guy.

Do you guys have websites dedicated to Michael Bay?

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out Prime Predaking's Predacon insignia on the shield yet. I have a feeling that's where this is going. "Dragons" as we know them were refuge Predacons prior to the Purge by Megatron(us). It would also explain the dinobots... which iirc weren't really explained in AoE. I still have a feeling OP and Megs might be teaming up against the "bigger bad" which may be Predaking aka Dragonstorm. We'll see.

Seibertron wrote:Do you guys have websites dedicated to Michael Bay?

Well no...I guess but I could always make a mini site if I really wanted too but there is no point with the Tfwiki existing and making a website dedicated to him kinda sounds a bit creepy.

I'm not a stalker I just lurk the net for information I swear!

I kinda got nothing new to offer except ideas and concepts (Always good at making those just don't ask me to write a script)

SpikeyTigertron wrote:I'm surprised nobody has pointed out Prime Predaking's Predacon insignia on the shield yet. I have a feeling that's where this is going. "Dragons" as we know them were refuge Predacons prior to the Purge by Megatron(us). It would also explain the dinobots... which iirc weren't really explained in AoE. I still have a feeling OP and Megs might be teaming up against the "bigger bad" which may be Predaking aka Dragonstorm. We'll see.

Where do you see the Transformers Prime Predacon symbol at in this image?

SpikeyTigertron wrote:I'm surprised nobody has pointed out Prime Predaking's Predacon insignia on the shield yet. I have a feeling that's where this is going. "Dragons" as we know them were refuge Predacons prior to the Purge by Megatron(us). It would also explain the dinobots... which iirc weren't really explained in AoE. I still have a feeling OP and Megs might be teaming up against the "bigger bad" which may be Predaking aka Dragonstorm. We'll see.

But Dragonstorm is a good guy according to both the toys and the information from everyone who went to the events though... and that the Predacon backstory is an aligned only thing plus there is no Predacon logo though that's just Dragonstorm since there are three heads but there is a Decepticon logo though.

The Dinobots were explained though a little they were Knights just like Optimus and were captured at one point by Lockdown and their not even called Dinobots in the movie and at this point I'm expecting it to be something the others (Cade, and Earth Autobots) just call them.

i will not see any movie in imax first movie i saw in imax was avatar screen was big tickets where exepensive but i could barely hear audio in movie people say imax movies are great big picture loud audio yeah picture was big same with ticket prices but i caould barely hear audio in movie and i have exceptional hearing.

i will see this movie in 3d as much i hate 3d its overrated have two glasses on face uncomfterable but transformers is only moive series that makes 3d effects non blurry when i see movie in 3d

dragons wrote:i will not see any movie in imax first movie i saw in imax was avatar screen was big tickets where exepensive but i could barely hear audio in movie people say imax movies are great big picture loud audio yeah picture was big same with ticket prices but i caould barely hear audio in movie and i have exceptional hearing.

i will see this movie in 3d as much i hate 3d its overrated have two glasses on face uncomfterable but transformers is only moive series that makes 3d effects non blurry when i see movie in 3d

I can say I have expert vision doesn't mean it's actually true.

Deadput wrote:

dragons wrote:i will not see any movie in imax first movie i saw in imax was avatar screen was big tickets where exepensive but i could barely hear audio in movie people say imax movies are great big picture loud audio yeah picture was big same with ticket prices but i caould barely hear audio in movie and i have exceptional hearing.

i will see this movie in 3d as much i hate 3d its overrated have two glasses on face uncomfterable but transformers is only moive series that makes 3d effects non blurry when i see movie in 3d

I can say I have expert vision doesn't mean it's actually true.

Any reason to argue this? I know what dragons is saying ... sometimes the audio is so loud that it is difficult to actually hear the audio itself. Just had that happen at Beauty and the Beast in IMAX.

Seibertron wrote:
Any reason to argue this? I know what dragons is saying ... sometimes the audio is so loud that it is difficult to actually hear the audio itself. Just had that happen at Beauty and the Beast in IMAX.

Huh maybe I'm misremembering my imax experiences Star Wars Rogue one had no problems for me.

Then again the only movies me and my family plan to see together is Transformers, Star Wars and Guardians of the Galaxy everything else we wait to rent or purchase on blue ray.

Seibertron wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:The King Arthur aspect, is that like a nod to the time travel episode in Season 2 cartoon?

I think it's more a coincidence than anything, though it'd be really interesting if that episode actually somehow inspired all of this. Trying to put my "I pretend to know about things other than Transformers" shoes on, I've been reading a novel from one of my favorite series, the "Orion" series by Ben Bova, his 6th book which came out before anything about the Last Knight came about, has to do with a time traveler of sorts, Merlin, and King Arthur as well, so ironically similar, but I think that's just the point of having those characters in any sort of story that impacts modern day. A handy coincidence I believe is all it is.

Considering that King Arthur and Merlin do not actually show up in the G1 episode "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court", I think it's even more of a stretch to say that The Last Knight is in any way influenced by that not-so-great G1 episode.

It's nice that the writers take a lot of coincidental nods to the original series.

Kup on Blitzwing on the turret = done
Shuttle blowing up with the Autobots presumed destroyed= done
Human collaborating with the 'cons to conquer/sell out the world= done
Time travel (maybe)= into the Middle Ages = done
Fight in Washington DC = done
Autobots hunted down/KISS Players= done

fenrir72 wrote:It's nice that the writers take a lot of coincidental nods to the original series.

Kup on Blitzwing on the turret = done
Shuttle blowing up with the Autobots presumed destroyed= done
Human collaborating with the 'cons to conquer/sell out the world= done
Time travel (maybe)= into the Middle Ages = done
Fight in Washington DC = done
Autobots hunted down/KISS Players= done

You could say that about just about any fiction and run it against just about anything else. Considering how much Transformers has borrowed fictional elements from other pop culture phenoms or copied concepts from other toy lines, I'd consider this a slippery slope.

Seibertron wrote:You could say that about just about any fiction and run it against just about anything else. Considering how much Transformers has borrowed fictional elements from other pop culture phenoms or copied concepts from other toy lines, I'd consider this a slippery slope.

Maybe but I did watch the commentary and behind the scenes for the 2007 movie and someone (can't remember if it was Bay or one of the cgi guys) stated that this.

fenrir72 wrote: Kup on Blitzwing on the turret = done

Was done on purpose and was an intentional reference. (The Jazz and Brawl scene)

So I'll give him some points there.

Yeah, Jazz grabbing Brawl's turret was meant to be a homage to Kup grabbing Blitzwing's turret, but the rest of that list is more on the aforementioned slippery slope than not.

Sabrblade wrote:Yeah, Jazz grabbing Brawl's turret was meant to be a homage to Kup grabbing Blitzwing's turret, but the rest of that list is more on the aforementioned slippery slope than not.

Probably is yeah but I'm sure one or two of the people there while making the script probably notice the coincidences.

Wasn't the script writer for 3, 4 and parts of 2 a big fan of Transformers as well?

Hm, there's no IMAX cinema near me but I'll see it in 3D. Like some others said I don't usually care for 3D but the I saw DotM in 3D and thought it worked well. Ain't much else I'm gonna go to the cinema for this year. Only had Logan and The Last Knight on my list and saw Logan before a lot of people (and I loved it). Oh and I frickin' love movie Prime. His look, his fighting style, weapons, general badassery, many of his toys. He's my fave incarnation.

just noticed 'Logan and the Last Knight' has a ring to it.

Dark of the Moon was the best 3d experience I've had so far and that's accounting all the movies I've seen in 3d.

Would love to have that experience again I wish there were theaters that played old movies just like the new ones with all the 3d and imax stuff.

If Cogman is a miniature Transformer that transforms into a head (headmaster), why does he have his own alternate mode? Is his Aston Martin vehicle mode a former Cybertronian or a Transtector?

OptimalOptimus2 wrote:If Cogman is a miniature Transformer that transforms into a head (headmaster), why does he have his own alternate mode? Is his Aston Martin vehicle mode a former Cybertronian or a Transtector?

It's either his main body/transactor or it's a Decepticon or some other chump Cogman takes control of at some point.

Now that I think about it he might not have the body at the beginning due to what I've read on Bwtf and their story recap Hot Rod starts out with an older car and upgrades to a Lambo at some point and the scenes describe don't mention Cogman's Aston Martin body so at the very least it's back at Anthony Hopkin's castle.


The most prominent I remember Cogman being on set during filming was during London with Bumblebee, Hot Rod and the unknown Red Mclaren who I'm just going to go with Dino until told otherwise and the London scenes take place somewhere in the second half.

Here are a few pictures of the filming I'm talking about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3784280/Shimmering-supercars-race-streets-London-Transformers-Night-chase-scene-including-1-5million-Lamborghini-Centenario.html

I am definitely looking forward to this and hoping the criticisms of the past will be negated even though you can't please everyone. Definitely some awesome stuff coming though.

Seibertron wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:It's nice that the writers take a lot of coincidental nods to the original series.

Kup on Blitzwing on the turret = done
Shuttle blowing up with the Autobots presumed destroyed= done
Human collaborating with the 'cons to conquer/sell out the world= done
Time travel (maybe)= into the Middle Ages = done
Fight in Washington DC = done
Autobots hunted down/KISS Players= done

You could say that about just about any fiction and run it against just about anything else. Considering how much Transformers has borrowed fictional elements from other pop culture phenoms or copied concepts from other toy lines, I'd consider this a slippery slope.

They manage some more specific homages...

Movie 1:
Decepticon that transforms into a music player infiltrates secure location and hacks computer.
Starscream betrays Megatron (Shoots him in the back during the end battle).
Megatron's body dumped off a ship into the dark, freezing depths, where it could never possibly be recovered and restored (homage to the original movie)

Movie 2:
Decepticons hunt human protagonist because his brain contains Primal knowledge (Buster Witwicky downloads the Matrix into his brain in G1 Marvel)
Constructicons help activate a device to harness the Sun's Energy (homage to "The Master Builders")
Optimus combines with Jetfire (homage to multiple storylines, particularly Transformers: Armada)
Decepticons immediately retreat as soon as Starscream suggests it (G1)

Movie 3:
Megatron seems to have become mentally unstable after his resurrection (like Galvatron in G1)
Optimus Prime's superior, Sentinel Prime, turns out to be a jerk (homage to Transformers: Animated)
Decepticons space-bridge Cybertron into Earth's orbit to restore its energy (homage to "Ultimate Doom")

Movie 4:
Introduces a grizzled Autobot sergeant-type who chews cigars (IDW Kup)
The US Military task force hunting the Transformers keeps their victims' heads (RAAT in G1 Marvel)
Attempt to clone Optimus Prime is corrupted by Megatron's programming (Robots in Disguise Scourge)
Bad guys want to use MacGuffin to cyberform Earth (Key to Vector Sigma)
Optimus gives up his guns in favor of a sweet@$$ melee weapon and the ability to fly (Transformers: Animated)
Dinobots released to fight big-bad who previously defeated them (G1 Marvel)
Grimlock challenges Optimus's authority (G1)

Caelus wrote:...

You guys are kidding me if you think they actually pulled all of this out of Transformers mythos over the years. Sure, some of it, but most of it is just fans making connections between two things.

One word sums it all up to me: Pareidolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

A lot of those are extremely general ideas that one could easily have come up with without even having heard of the Transformers fiction they first took place in. Hell, pretty sure half of them are rather common tropes...

Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Caelus wrote:Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Not ALL of those you listed are mere coincidences, but most of them are. The only ones that could be seen as intended homages/references would be the following:

Caelus wrote:Decepticon that transforms into a music player
Starscream betrays Megatron (Shoots him in the back during the end battle).

Optimus combines with Jetfire

Decepticons space-bridge Cybertron into Earth's orbit to restore its energy (homage to "Ultimate Doom")

Sabrblade wrote:

Caelus wrote:Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Not ALL of those you listed are mere coincidences, but most of them are. The only ones that could be seen as intended homages/references would be the following:

Caelus wrote:Decepticon that transforms into a music player
Starscream betrays Megatron (Shoots him in the back during the end battle).

Optimus combines with Jetfire

Decepticons space-bridge Cybertron into Earth's orbit to restore its energy (homage to "Ultimate Doom")

What about the fact that Optimus Prime is voiced by Peter Cullen and that the kid's last name is Witwicky. Those are homages too.

EDIT: oh wait, I see you were only looking at what the person wrote, my bad.
Also, I was kinda joking around, but now it falls flat.

william-james88 wrote:What about the fact that Optimus Prime is voiced by Peter Cullen and that the kid's last name is Witwicky. Those are homages too.

That's completely different. That's like saying the movie being called "Transformers" is an homage.

Seibertron wrote:

william-james88 wrote:What about the fact that Optimus Prime is voiced by Peter Cullen and that the kid's last name is Witwicky. Those are homages too.

That's completely different. That's like saying the movie being called "Transformers" is an homage.

I was saying it tongue in cheek. But you know, with all the fans saying how Optimus' characterization is completely off in some films, this whole live action franchise is not much more than an homage as this point, taking fewer and fewer things from the original. Just a reinvention with taking names from the original for the sake of brand recognition.

And about names, I recall you saying that Movie Sideswipe's name was more of an homage rather than an actual interpretaion of the g1 character, since they werent related.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure G1 Sideswipe's original bio made him out to be somewhat of a daredevil? So while the movie version takes no visual cues, it kinda takes what smidgeon of a personality the original had and turning the dial up to ten with friggin' drive-by slicing. I'm glad that of all things Aligned and G1 properties have been inspired by from the movies, it's giving Sideswipe swords. That's awesome.

Though while we're talking about the Movies and their source material in a context that's thankfully not one side of the fandom screaming that everything should be exactly like their childhood while the other end of the fandom screeches that there should be absolutely no adherence to the source material at all and anyone who wants Megatron to actually look like Megatron is just one of those dumb gee-wunners... in my opinion, one of the best movie designs was Jazz. He had enough visual cues from the original character to tell you that, yes, this is Jazz (the visor, the hood chest, I'm pretty sure he turned into a porche?) while also having enough new traits to give him his own visual identity separate from the original while still clearly being an update. I personally would have given him a colour scheme more reminiscent of his G1 self, but that's just my own personal aesthetic preference; I like a bit of colour compared to the grays and silvers.

Kurona wrote:I'm pretty sure he turned into a porche?

he turns into a pontiac, you can see the logo on his chest



Then again, I dont think any of these characters turn into their g1 alt modes or even brands.

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:I'm pretty sure he turned into a porche?

he turns into a pontiac, you can see the logo on his chest



Then again, I dont think any of these characters turn into their g1 alt modes or even brands.

Fair, fair. I think it's a similar car? I don't know cars. Typical Transformers nerd I am; absorb all the information about the fictional characters but get no useful practical knowledge in the process

Kurona wrote:Fair, fair. I think it's a similar car? I don't know cars. Typical Transformers nerd I am; absorb all the information about the fictional characters but get no useful practical knowledge in the process

No worries. In case you care, its not that similar. The porshe has really distinctive traits, like the headlights. The solstice (what he turns into in the film) also has distinctive features like the grill which shows up prominantly in robot mode. That makes the robot looks super different in the chest area.

Seibertron wrote:One word sums it all up to me: Pareidolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

That's a good word. Must never play you at scrabble!

Big Grim wrote:

Seibertron wrote:One word sums it all up to me: Pareidolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

That's a good word. Must never play you at scrabble!

LOL. That's what Google is for, but don't tell anyone that's what I used. Now if I could only use Yzquierdo in Scrabble I'd be all set. Maybe one day in Scrabble en Español!

Seibertron wrote:

Big Grim wrote:

Seibertron wrote:One word sums it all up to me: Pareidolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

That's a good word. Must never play you at scrabble!

LOL. That's what Google is for, but don't tell anyone that's what I used. Now if I could only use Yzquierdo in Scrabble I'd be all set. Maybe one day in Scrabble en Español!

See what happens when you use the word "melonology" in Scrabble.

Wait other people play Scrabble besides my Mother and the computer?

But no seriously I'm surprised to see several Scrabble players here Scrabble for my Mum is like Transformers for me we kinda make that stuff the most we do in our spare time.

Sabrblade wrote:

Caelus wrote:Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Not ALL of those you listed are mere coincidences, but most of them are.[/q

But still no explanation of *how* people are deciding what is and isn't a coincincidence versus an homage, so basically what I'm hearing people say is that the movies have few to no homages to other Transformers series, just a LOT of coincidental similarities, which we know *must* be coincidental because the movies have few to no homages.

Caelus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Caelus wrote:Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Not ALL of those you listed are mere coincidences, but most of them are.[/q

But still no explanation of *how* people are deciding what is and isn't a coincincidence versus an homage, so basically what I'm hearing people say is that the movies have few to no homages to other Transformers series, just a LOT of coincidental similarities, which we know *must* be coincidental because the movies have few to no homages.

It's more like they're very general and non-specific tropes that happen a lot in many action and sci-fi properties, not just Transformers. It's true we don't know why any particular decision was made, but we can also make educated guesses and not immediately jump to the conclusion that something is a homage just because it's a common fictional trope both the movies and a previous Transformers series has utilised.

Caelus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Caelus wrote:Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Not ALL of those you listed are mere coincidences, but most of them are.[/q

But still no explanation of *how* people are deciding what is and isn't a coincincidence versus an homage, so basically what I'm hearing people say is that the movies have few to no homages to other Transformers series, just a LOT of coincidental similarities, which we know *must* be coincidental because the movies have few to no homages.

But their probably right though just because it seems like a homage doesn't actually mean it is.

Unless it's something very specific it's more then likely a coincidence but a happy one.

Kurona wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Caelus wrote:Okay... so, in your minds, what details/plot points could the movies have included that would satisfy your criteria for not being a string of coincidences?

Not ALL of those you listed are mere coincidences, but most of them are.[/q

But still no explanation of *how* people are deciding what is and isn't a coincincidence versus an homage, so basically what I'm hearing people say is that the movies have few to no homages to other Transformers series, just a LOT of coincidental similarities, which we know *must* be coincidental because the movies have few to no homages.

It's more like they're very general and non-specific tropes that happen a lot in many action and sci-fi properties, not just Transformers. It's true we don't know why any particular decision was made, but we can also make educated guesses and not immediately jump to the conclusion that something is a homage just because it's a common fictional trope both the movies and a previous Transformers series has utilised.

So how many coincidental similarities would there have to be be before the similarities were no longer considered coincidental?

Caelus wrote:So how many coincidental similarities would there have to be be before the similarities were no longer considered coincidental?

When their actually homages and not just coincidences for example the only ones I could see being intentional in your movie 4 lists are

Bad guys want to use MacGuffin to cyberform Earth (Key to Vector Sigma) and only loosely

Grimlock challenges Optimus's authority (G1) I mean that's always been a part of Grimlock so whatever and it's not like Grimlock talked either making his defiance not that big a deal.

But stuff like this:
Optimus gives up his guns in favor of a sweet@$$ melee weapon and the ability to fly (Transformers: Animated)

Are absolutely not homages at all that is a definite coincidence and a loose one too since Animated Optimus uses a hammer and an actual jetpack instead of a knight sword and rocket boots.

Where is Bayverse Dr Archeville? He would have been an awesome character, done Bayverse style, to have had in DOTM.