Twincast / Podcast Episode #135 "The Road To Multiverse"

Do they only answer questions on some episodes?

Haven't listened yet, but SG Unicron was only truly a thing after the concept of Multiversal Singularities was formally done away with and disposed of. So now there's no longer only one of Unicron, Primus, and each of the Thirteen, in the multiverse. Now any universe can have their own unique versions of any of those guys (or have none of them, even, like how the U.S. G1 cartoon doesn't a Primus of its own).

Sabrblade wrote:Haven't listened yet, but SG Unicron was only truly a thing after the concept of Multiversal Singularities was formally done away with and disposed of. So now there's no longer only one of Unicron, Primus, and each of the Thirteen, in the multiverse. Now any universe can have their own unique versions of any of those guys (or have none of them, even, like how the U.S. G1 cartoon doesn't a Primus of its own).

Oh neat. We didn't know they had done away with that rule. Can you point us to where that happened or was announced?

I would have loved to have been part of this discussion. I hate the "multiverse" concept. Absolutely hate it. Drives me crazy when comics, cartoons or other fiction telling media use it. Once in a great while is OK as a one-off story or a "what if" story, but it's such an overused concept now that it strikes me as extremely lazy and unoriginal storytelling at this point.

I watched Batman Under The Red Hood last night. Having not followed anything about Robin since I used to read comics back in the 90s, I decided to Wikipedia the character last night. What a travesty DC has done to their storylines over the years. I know Marvel's gone that route too, to an extent, but it's just an unnecessary mess that they destroyed their timelines so bad. Lazy writing, cop out storytelling, unimaginative writers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_(comics)

When I read the multiverse idea get introduced into the Transformers Regeneration comics, I clearly remember the words "Seriously?!?! What the #^c&!" being said aloud. It was one of the few places left in the world of Transformers fiction that had been left untouched by the multiverse.

Not everything needs to be connected. There's no need for it.

The relaunch of the Star Trek film franchise was a very clever take on this concept where something happened thanks to black holes, exploding stars, singularities, etc, that sent Spock back in time which altered history and caused Vulcan to be destroyed instead of Romulus. This event or events caused a splinter in time which has caused the new alternate Star Trek timeline. Finding an actual point in the Next Generation stories that allowed this to happen was really clever. Now, if they relied on this regularly to reboot the timeline, this concept would also grow old.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Haven't listened yet, but SG Unicron was only truly a thing after the concept of Multiversal Singularities was formally done away with and disposed of. So now there's no longer only one of Unicron, Primus, and each of the Thirteen, in the multiverse. Now any universe can have their own unique versions of any of those guys (or have none of them, even, like how the U.S. G1 cartoon doesn't a Primus of its own).

Oh neat. We didn't know they had done away with that rule. Can you point us to where that happened or was announced?

It happened last year in the October/November 2015 issue of the TCC magazine, in "Another Light, Part 5: Out of the One, Many".

All the Thirteen came together and Nexus Prime used the Star Saber and the Terminus Blade together to strengthen the walls between universes, thereby erasing the singularity nature of himself and his brethren, splitting everyone of them into their own unique, separate entities across the multiverse, manifesting in whichever universes would accept them.

As a side effect, though, because the universal membranes were thickened, this caused travel between universes to be closed off, with the TransTechs of Axiom Nexus losing all contact with the rest of the multiverse, in a phenomenon they have dubbed "the Shroud". This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Sabrblade wrote:This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count, especially considering how low the readership for that content must be. I know you read that stuff, and like it, but it's basically just unofficial fan fiction released by the Club. I bet no one at Hasbro even reads that stuff to make sure it fits whatever criteria content must have to be considered "official".

On that note, I also don't consider the poorly written and mostly boring Transformers novels to be official either. Now if James Roberts or John Barber wrote an official in-cannon book that fit within the IDW continuity, that would be an entirely different story. But as long as they have people writing Transformers books that aren't that familiar with all of the intricacies of the Transformers, then it's not official in my book -- copyright and trademark symbols be damned!

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count,

I'm sorry, Ryan, but who are you to make such a statement like this?

Seibertron wrote:especially considering how low the readership for that content must be.

TFWiki wrote:As of July 16, 2015, Ask Vector Prime had a total readership of 7,263 people.

Ask Vector Prime isn't cannon, either. Sorry.

Seibertron wrote:Now if James Roberts wrote an official in-cannon book that fit within the IDW continuity, that would be an entirely different story. But as long as they have people writing Transformers books that aren't that familiar with all of the intricacies of the Transformers, then it's not official in my book, copyright and trademark symbols be damned!

You just insulted Jim Sorenson, Jesse Wittenrich, and a host of other TF-savvy contributors (including James Roberts).

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count,

I'm sorry, Ryan, but who are you to make such a statement like this?

It's my opinion. It doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the fan club is still just fan fiction.

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count,

I'm sorry, Ryan, but who are you to make such a statement like this?

It's my opinion. It doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the fan club is still just fan fiction.

Made edits to my post above.

Seibertron wrote:Now if James Roberts wrote an official in-cannon book that fit within the IDW continuity, that would be an entirely different story. But as long as they have people writing Transformers books that aren't that familiar with all of the intricacies of the Transformers, then it's not official in my book, copyright and trademark symbols be damned!

You just insulted Jim Sorenson, Jesse Wittenrich, and a host of other TF-savvy contributors (including James Roberts).

I gave one specific example. It wasn't a "catch-all" example, Miles.

For once, can you just accept a "I don't like something" answer as exactly that without having to prove you're right or having to explain how it all fits together. It doesn't work that way for a lot of us. I just don't like it and don't consider it official. If you want to do that, that's fine. But I don't care for the novels or the PDF files that have never been printed in book form. The latter is definitely fan fiction, especially considering that it's never been published in a book that you can buy at a book store.

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count,

I'm sorry, Ryan, but who are you to make such a statement like this?

It's my opinion. It doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the fan club is still just fan fiction.

Made edits to my post above.

Oops! I think I put your post back to how it was. Sorry, didn't mean to click "edit" instead of "quote". That would explain why I had to put in the extra quote bbcode!

I for one LOVE the multiversal concept. It allows a franchise to have a multitude of different takes on a concept without them having to be one off things. And really, the concept of a multiverse has been a part of transformers since it's inception.

Microraptor wrote:I for one LOVE the multiversal concept. It allows a franchise to have a multitude of different takes on a concept without them having to be one off things. And really, the concept of a multiverse has been a part of transformers since it's inception.

Just for the record, I'm OK with having multiple continuities to an extent. I don't like it, but if that's what it takes for Transformers to keep going, that's fine. If people need to call it a multiverse to acknowledge what's come before and after, whatever makes them happy. The aspect I strongly dislike is when it's used as a tool to allow characters from different universes to occupy the same space. Car Robots Fire Convoy and Beast Wars Optimus Primal don't ever need to exist together in the same story from those universes in my opinion. Case in point: Robot Masters was a storyline that didn't need to ever happen, same with the extremely screwed up Binaltech/KISS Players storyline.

Saying "I don't like something" is fine.

What got me was the sweeping declaration that a certain medium of fiction is somehow less than official compared to other mediums when they all come from the same source of writers working from the same license as the likes of IDW and Hasbro Studios. I get it was meant as an opinion, but it came off as sounding like a factual statement.

Fun Pub has just taken to broadening its horizons beyond mere comic books, producing multimedia fiction across physical comics, digital comics, physical prose, digital prose, digital videos, and more.

It's fine if one prefers one medium over another. I myself prefer physical comics over digital ones, but find digital videos easier to access than physical videos.

A multiverse is generally fine by me but all those Hot Rod's together in Regeneration One really did take me right out of the nostalgic feeling I was getting reading that series, seeing all those versions from Transformers lines that came from after I had grown into an adult (and some I really dislike). I could have done without that. It kinda soured the entire run for me.


By the way I'm really liking that how DotM Megatron figure is posed there. Looks awesome.

Sabrblade wrote:What got me was the sweeping declaration that a certain medium of fiction is somehow less than official compared to other mediums when they all come from the same source of writers working from the same license as the likes of IDW and Hasbro Studios. I get it was meant as an opinion, but it came off as sounding like a factual statement.

It's my opinion, but I have a suspicion that a lot of the fandom probably agrees! Though I could be wrong. Curious to hear what the rest of you think.

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:What got me was the sweeping declaration that a certain medium of fiction is somehow less than official compared to other mediums when they all come from the same source of writers working from the same license as the likes of IDW and Hasbro Studios. I get it was meant as an opinion, but it came off as sounding like a factual statement.

It's my opinion, but I have a suspicion that a lot of the fandom probably agrees!

It's fine if people don't like something. That's perfectly fine. But not liking something isn't the same as that something being objectively bad.

For instance, there are a lot of really well made horror films out there that have received plenty of critical acclaim and fan appraisal. But I have no interest in horror films, and simply do not care for them. Doesn't mean they're awful, though. I just don't like horror films.

Based on this conversation, the same seems to apply for you with digital prose fiction for Transformers. The medium isn't bad, but you don't care for it and prefer other mediums, which is ok.


On a different note, though, James Roberts's Eugenesis novel has been called a wonderful piece of fiction written by a master of a writer. But as he wrote it as a fan and had it published without permission from Hasbro, it's fan fiction. Remarkably well written fan fiction from what those who've read it have said (I have not yet read it, FWIW), but fan fiction nonetheless.

Sabrblade wrote:Based on this conversation, the same seems to apply for you with digital prose fiction for Transformers. The medium isn't bad, but you don't care for it and prefer other mediums, which is ok.

Basically, but I also lumped in the poorly written novels which have been written by people like Alex Irvine and Alan Dean Foster, both excellent sci-fi writers but poor Transformers fiction writers who don't strike me as actually caring about Transformers and are just collecting a paycheck, whereas there are people like Roberts, Barber, and Sorenson (and others) who are very passionate about Transformers. Would love to see some novelists come out of the woodwork who are passionate Transformers fans as well as having to adhere to a thought out road map like the writers at IDW.

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Based on this conversation, the same seems to apply for you with digital prose fiction for Transformers. The medium isn't bad, but you don't care for it and prefer other mediums, which is ok.

Basically, but I also lumped in the poorly written novels which have been written by people like Alex Irvine and Alan Dean Foster, both excellent writers but poor Transformers fiction writers who don't strike me as actually caring about Transformers and are just collecting a paycheck.

I'd kill for a Jim Sorenson-written or a James Roberts-written TF novel, though.

Anyway, I think we've reached a point where we can finally put this behind us. Good talking, good sir.

Sidenote: We need a handshaking smiley.

Sabrblade wrote:Anyway, I think we've reached a point where we can finally put this behind us. Good talking, good sir.

Sidenote: We need a handshaking smiley.

I'd love to see a Eugenesis style book that is official. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. I would be all onboard with some novels that fit into IDW continuity.

Also, can we burn those books written back in the early 2000s that were supposed to fit within the Dreamwave continuity?

Seibertron wrote:

Microraptor wrote:I for one LOVE the multiversal concept. It allows a franchise to have a multitude of different takes on a concept without them having to be one off things. And really, the concept of a multiverse has been a part of transformers since it's inception.

Just for the record, I'm OK with having multiple continuities to an extent. I don't like it, but if that's what it takes for Transformers to keep going, that's fine. If people need to call it a multiverse to acknowledge what's come before and after, whatever makes them happy. The aspect I strongly dislike is when it's used as a tool to allow characters from different universes to occupy the same space. Car Robots Fire Convoy and Beast Wars Optimus Primal don't ever need to exist together in the same story from those universes in my opinion. Case in point: Robot Masters was a storyline that didn't need to ever happen, same with the extremely screwed up Binaltech/KISS Players storyline.

Here's the thing with the first example: Due to Japan's odd insistence on making everything G1, Car Robots and Beast wars actually exist in the same dimensional stream. So, bad example mate.

Microraptor wrote:Here's the thing with the first example: Due to Japan's odd insistence on making everything G1, Car Robots and Beast wars actually exist in the same dimensional stream. So, bad example mate.

Actually, that's the exact type of thing I'm talking about. There was no need for them to do that. Car Robots is a fine stand alone thing. It doesn't need to be tied into anything else and can exist on its own.

Microraptor wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Microraptor wrote:I for one LOVE the multiversal concept. It allows a franchise to have a multitude of different takes on a concept without them having to be one off things. And really, the concept of a multiverse has been a part of transformers since it's inception.

Just for the record, I'm OK with having multiple continuities to an extent. I don't like it, but if that's what it takes for Transformers to keep going, that's fine. If people need to call it a multiverse to acknowledge what's come before and after, whatever makes them happy. The aspect I strongly dislike is when it's used as a tool to allow characters from different universes to occupy the same space. Car Robots Fire Convoy and Beast Wars Optimus Primal don't ever need to exist together in the same story from those universes in my opinion. Case in point: Robot Masters was a storyline that didn't need to ever happen, same with the extremely screwed up Binaltech/KISS Players storyline.

Here's the thing with the first example: Due to Japan's odd insistence on making everything G1, Car Robots and Beast wars actually exist in the same dimensional stream. So, bad example mate.

Ah, but his uses of the names "Fire Convoy" and "Optimus Primal" make it a valid example since "Optimus Primal" exists in English continuities while "Fire Convoy" is from a Japanese one.

Seibertron wrote:

Microraptor wrote:Here's the thing with the first example: Due to Japan's odd insistence on making everything G1, Car Robots and Beast wars actually exist in the same dimensional stream. So, bad example mate.

Actually, that's the exact type of thing I'm talking about. There was no need for them to do that. Car Robots is a fine stand alone thing. It doesn't need to be tied into anything else and can exist on its own.

Oh. Well now I feel dumb.

Seibertron wrote:

Microraptor wrote:Here's the thing with the first example: Due to Japan's odd insistence on making everything G1, Car Robots and Beast wars actually exist in the same dimensional stream. So, bad example mate.

Actually, that's the exact type of thing I'm talking about. There was no need for them to do that. Car Robots is a fine stand alone thing. It doesn't need to be tied into anything else and can exist on its own.

Don't worry. Robots in Disguise is still non-G1.

Having watched Car Robots, though, the original Japanese dialogue script contained elements from the Japanese Beast Wars and Japanese G1 cartoons that were removed in the English dub.

Transformers has a multiverse?
Well there's G1, Classicsverse, IDW, Shattered Glass, and so forth.

It's not uncommon DC has it, Marvel has it. SO I guess the Transformers brand has it.

Sabrblade wrote:

Microraptor wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Microraptor wrote:I for one LOVE the multiversal concept. It allows a franchise to have a multitude of different takes on a concept without them having to be one off things. And really, the concept of a multiverse has been a part of transformers since it's inception.

Just for the record, I'm OK with having multiple continuities to an extent. I don't like it, but if that's what it takes for Transformers to keep going, that's fine. If people need to call it a multiverse to acknowledge what's come before and after, whatever makes them happy. The aspect I strongly dislike is when it's used as a tool to allow characters from different universes to occupy the same space. Car Robots Fire Convoy and Beast Wars Optimus Primal don't ever need to exist together in the same story from those universes in my opinion. Case in point: Robot Masters was a storyline that didn't need to ever happen, same with the extremely screwed up Binaltech/KISS Players storyline.

Here's the thing with the first example: Due to Japan's odd insistence on making everything G1, Car Robots and Beast wars actually exist in the same dimensional stream. So, bad example mate.

Ah, but his uses of the names "Fire Convoy" and "Optimus Primal" make it a valid example since "Optimus Primal" exists in English continuities while "Fire Convoy" is from a Japanese one.

Truth be told, I said "Fire Convoy" so that everyone knew who I was talking about (theoretically) instead of saying Robots In Disguise Optimus Prime.

Seibertron wrote:Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count, especially considering how low the readership for that content must be. I know you read that stuff, and like it, but it's basically just unofficial fan fiction released by the Club. I bet no one at Hasbro even reads that stuff to make sure it fits whatever criteria content must have to be considered "official".

I'm not contesting your right to like or dislike fiction, but the last part runs into some factual problems. Nexus Prime is a good example - Funpub-created character adopted by Hasbro for mainline fiction, Hasbro later requests Funpub to focus less on him while Nexus is appearing in Aligned stuff etc. Hasbro seems pretty aware of the Funpub fiction. (Fun fact: the naming for the Universe toyline and Vector Prime also have their roots in Botcon stuff, then there's Takara popping out some Shattered Glass e-hobby stuff etc.)

That's the joy of HasTak accepting the existence of many coexisting "timelines" - the fun/interesting ideas can be picked up and borrowed by a variety of content creators working under different constraints. (Although I am glad that literal crossing over may be less prominent.)

RevTibe wrote:I'm not contesting your right to like or dislike fiction, but the last part runs into some factual problems. Nexus Prime is a good example - Funpub-created character adopted by Hasbro for mainline fiction, Hasbro later requests Funpub to focus less on him while Nexus is appearing in Aligned stuff etc. Hasbro seems pretty aware of the Funpub fiction. (Fun fact: the naming for the Universe toyline and Vector Prime also have their roots in Botcon stuff, then there's Takara popping out some Shattered Glass e-hobby stuff etc.)

That's the joy of HasTak accepting the existence of many coexisting "timelines" - the fun/interesting ideas can be picked up and borrowed by a variety of content creators working under different constraints. (Although I am glad that literal crossing over may be less prominent.)

That's very different than what I meant to say (in case it didn't come across properly). What I meant to reference were small little facts thrown into this form of "fan fiction" (i.e. stating a character was from a certain city on Cybertron or something along those lines). Characters are one thing, it's the annoying "facts" or made-up characters (such as Nacelle who came from Irvine's Exodus novel) that irk me that comes out of this type of content.

Just for clarification again, I'm not talking about what happens in their comics. I'm strictly talking about the Club's text based stories that appear in downloadable PDF format or the novels who were written by sci-fi writers who seem to be just collecting a paycheck and are not actually passionate about Transformers. What the Club has done with their published comics should be considered official, for all intents and purposes.

Haven't listened yet, will do soon, but:

Va'al wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Va'al wrote:Continuity is but a phallogocentric instrument of control. FREE THE TIMELINES

That's what Funpub did and it's a horrible mess sooo.... let's not do that ;D

Also I had to look up what phallogocentric meant and now I'm just laughing. A+ good sir.

They're trying to impose order upon them. That is poppycock. Freedom I say, throw the dice.

From: https://twitter.com/razorclaw0000/statu ... 0282937344

Seibertron wrote:Just for clarification again, I'm not talking about what happens in their comics. I'm strictly talking about the Club's text based stories that appear in downloadable PDF format or the novels who were written by sci-fi writers who seem to be just collecting a paycheck and are not actually passionate about Transformers. What the Club has done with their published comics should be considered official, for all intents and purposes.

I understand what you're saying about TF novels, but anything the Club has produced in any format really isn't comparable since their stuff is written by passionate, informed TF nerds who know and love the greater lore that their works are derived from. Their writers include/have included likes of Ben Yee, Greg Sepelak, S. Trent Troop, Forest Lee, Pete Sinclair, Marty Isenberg (for their Animated stories), Jesse Wittenrich, Andrew Hall, and the Transformers uber-nerd Jim Sorenson.

Whether their works they've written are good or bad (and several of their works definitely aren't good), they at least know and care about Transformers way better than the novel authors did.

Jim and Jesse are currently the main writers behind the present Facebook fiction, which may be text based most of the time, but also includes artwork and even videos at appropriate times. This video in particular even has David Sobolov as Shockwave, Jon Bailey as Optimus Prime (his first official Optimus role), and even Richard Newman reprising his role of Vector Prime for first time in ten years. And Peter Spellos came back for this one to have Sky-Byte tell us what became of him after the 2001 RiD cartoon.

Sabrblade wrote:Jim and Jesse are currently the main writers behind the present Facebook fiction, which may be text based most of the time, but also includes artwork and even videos at appropriate times. This video in particular even has David Sobolov as Shockwave, Jon Bailey as Optimus Prime (his first official Optimus role), and even Richard Newman reprising his role of Vector Prime for first time in ten years. And Peter Spellos came back for this one to have Sky-Byte tell us what became of him after the 2001 RiD cartoon.

Awesome that they got some official voice actors, but this is still just fan fiction to me and shouldn't be considered part of the official cannon.

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Jim and Jesse are currently the main writers behind the present Facebook fiction, which may be text based most of the time, but also includes artwork and even videos at appropriate times. This video in particular even has David Sobolov as Shockwave, Jon Bailey as Optimus Prime (his first official Optimus role), and even Richard Newman reprising his role of Vector Prime for first time in ten years. And Peter Spellos came back for this one to have Sky-Byte tell us what became of him after the 2001 RiD cartoon.

Awesome that they got some official voice actors, but this is still just fan fiction to me and shouldn't be considered part of the official cannon.

I understand, but both the Club and those who enjoy and support this work of theirs just don't agree with that sentiment. Those who like the Facebook fiction like it cuz it's fun.

(Though, this site did previously news the naming of the yellow and blue Rainmakers that came from the Ask Vector Prime Facebook.)

Sabrblade wrote:(Though, this site did previously news the naming of the yellow and blue Rainmakers that came from the Ask Vector Prime Facebook.)

Probably should have just been left as forum discussion as its really not news.

On an unrelated note, this:




That Tie Fighter is MASSIVE.

So happy to see all this discussion! As you may have heard in the episode, I'm going through paperwork and such, and this weekend I've been so lost in it I didn't come in here at all like I should have. Onward to lots of replying.

SillySpringer wrote:Do they only answer questions on some episodes?

Try to on as many as possible, this was one where we were able to give more attention to some very good ones, including yours, so thanks again for it! We're also making a move away from the amount of "current events" talk/reaction on the show, so you can certainly expect more question answering discussions as long as good questions are out there for us.

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Haven't listened yet, but SG Unicron was only truly a thing after the concept of Multiversal Singularities was formally done away with and disposed of. So now there's no longer only one of Unicron, Primus, and each of the Thirteen, in the multiverse. Now any universe can have their own unique versions of any of those guys (or have none of them, even, like how the U.S. G1 cartoon doesn't a Primus of its own).

Oh neat. We didn't know they had done away with that rule. Can you point us to where that happened or was announced?

Dude, that's... that's what prompted the discussion! Don't "we" that one

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:This particular plot point was covered not in the magazine comic, but instead via the Facebook fiction pages for Rook, Andromeda, the Axiom Nexus News Editor, and Vector Prime.

Then it doesn't count. Fan fiction published by the Fan Club doesn't count, especially considering how low the readership for that content must be. I know you read that stuff, and like it, but it's basically just unofficial fan fiction released by the Club. I bet no one at Hasbro even reads that stuff to make sure it fits whatever criteria content must have to be considered "official".

That last sentence is what bugs me about a lot of that fiction. There's oversight, and yes, it's in the hands of capable and (generally) good stewards of the brand, but at the end of the day it's just a couple guys doing whatever the hell they want to. Most of the official/canonical material out there has a lot of oversight and direction - the comics all go through Barber, the movies all go through Bay/Paramount, the cartoons all go through Executive Producers. In other words, the buck stops somewhere. With much of the prose and especially the "Facebook canon" being added, it's just stuff. Hell, look at the TF Wiki right now, the dudes had to put in a two week moratorium on adding that Facebook stuff because some of it is just purposely making confusing stuff up! If the Wiki guys are lost, god help the rest of us.

Sabrblade wrote:You just insulted Jim Sorenson, Jesse Wittenrich, and a host of other TF-savvy contributors (including James Roberts).

That's an interesting reading of his point. I don't think he insulted anyone this entire time :shrug:

Seibertron wrote:Basically, but I also lumped in the poorly written novels which have been written by people like Alex Irvine and Alan Dean Foster, both excellent sci-fi writers but poor Transformers fiction writers who don't strike me as actually caring about Transformers and are just collecting a paycheck, whereas there are people like Roberts, Barber, and Sorenson (and others) who are very passionate about Transformers. Would love to see some novelists come out of the woodwork who are passionate Transformers fans as well as having to adhere to a thought out road map like the writers at IDW.

I think it's unfair to guys like Irvine to say they're "collecting a paycheck". They're professionals, and they're not going to just throw stuff on a page aimlessly. I actually thought he did a great job of fleshing out some of the concepts in Chaos Theory with Optimus and Megatron's relationship while still doing what was being asked of him by the overseers at Hasbro. Exodus and Exiles were pretty good, imo. The third book, whatever that was, just no, but I still would wager that the author gave a damn.

Carnivius_Prime wrote:A multiverse is generally fine by me but all those Hot Rod's together in Regeneration One really did take me right out of the nostalgic feeling I was getting reading that series, seeing all those versions from Transformers lines that came from after I had grown into an adult (and some I really dislike). I could have done without that. It kinda soured the entire run for me.

Much more than that soured the book for me, but yes, I found that pretty pointless too. In principal, it's ok. In execution and in the context of the book, I wasn't crazy about it. Why not have the other fallen leaders help? There was so much to draw on to try and make some of that mess come together at the end, but nah, here's Energon Rodimus and pals to, uh, do... something. Man, I just can't even get started on Regen One, it's very close to my least favorite TF work of all time, with disappointment definitely playing a role there.


tl;dr version:

Seibertron wrote:Not everything needs to be connected. There's no need for it.

I agreed with this, mostly.

I gotta admit, it's pretty awesome to hear them answer my question and make fun of my username on the podcast! I have never gotten my question answered on the podcast before, especially not the first question to be answered!

ScottyP wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Not everything needs to be connected. There's no need for it.

I agreed with this, mostly.

That said, I like how Barber does the connections in IDW. And the idea of Titans and colonies is still one I am very much in support of.

ScottyP wrote:

Seibertron wrote:I bet no one at Hasbro even reads that stuff to make sure it fits whatever criteria content must have to be considered "official".

That last sentence is what bugs me about a lot of that fiction. There's oversight, and yes, it's in the hands of capable and (generally) good stewards of the brand, but at the end of the day it's just a couple guys doing whatever the hell they want to. Most of the official/canonical material out there has a lot of oversight and direction - the comics all go through Barber, the movies all go through Bay/Paramount, the cartoons all go through Executive Producers. In other words, the buck stops somewhere. With much of the prose and especially the "Facebook canon" being added, it's just stuff. Hell, look at the TF Wiki right now, the dudes had to put in a two week moratorium on adding that Facebook stuff because some of it is just purposely making confusing stuff up! If the Wiki guys are lost, god help the rest of us.

This is also why I called BS way back when on the WFC/FOC, Transformers Prime, Rescue Bots and whatever else was supposed to be tied together. It wasn't intended to all be tied together. It was hacked together, and it fell apart in less than 3 years. Rescue Bots and WFC/FOC was never supposed to be part of the same "universe" as Transformers Prime. It was forced together for the sake of forcing it together, and then the concept was abandoned and quickly started getting mucked up. Not everything needs to go together and a lot of this is all a big stretch to begin with. That Rik Alvarez panel where a lot of this was finally revealed from within at TFcon USA 2015 was one of the most fascinating panels I had ever attended.

megatronus wrote:On an unrelated note, this:




That Tie Fighter is MASSIVE.

Haha! I love this! Great movie and then a titan to boot!

As for the multiverse: I believe it is cool and I love it. Axiom Nexus is cool to be cause I love seeing these crossovers, where characters from one universe find another. Now "multiversal singularities" was a headache, but I still like multiversal crossovers

ScottyP wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Haven't listened yet, but SG Unicron was only truly a thing after the concept of Multiversal Singularities was formally done away with and disposed of. So now there's no longer only one of Unicron, Primus, and each of the Thirteen, in the multiverse. Now any universe can have their own unique versions of any of those guys (or have none of them, even, like how the U.S. G1 cartoon doesn't a Primus of its own).

Oh neat. We didn't know they had done away with that rule. Can you point us to where that happened or was announced?

Dude, that's... that's what prompted the discussion! Don't "we" that one

Maybe I misunderstood, then. I thought the SG Unicron came as a surprise, and didn't realize there was an announcement or some storyline that justified the change. Eh, is what it is.

Some of the best CW limbs are ironically the made up characters... Alpha Bravo and Offroad are great molds. The best of the bunch in my opinion. I don't have Rook, but he seems to be a great mold as well.

I think Deadend mold is overrated. His legs never seem to stay tabbed together as an arm in limb mold. And in robot mode his odd feet don't let him stand perfectly.

All of the jets are cool, but of the three I don't think one stands out to me. But I definitely recommend them.

warzon3 wrote:Some of the best CW limbs are ironically the made up characters... Alpha Bravo and Offroad are great molds. The best of the bunch in my opinion. I don't have Rook, but he seems to be a great mold as well.

I think Deadend mold is overrated. His legs never seem to stay tabbed together as an arm in limb mold. And in robot mode his odd feet don't let him stand perfectly.

All of the jets are cool, but of the three I don't think one stands out to me. But I definitely recommend them.

I think the newbies got some benefit by not being tied to existing design. That could be counterpointed by saying Alpha Bravo was a prepaint for Blades and Vortex, but that's ok, they've been good at making helicopter Transformers for a long time now with only limited exception (RotF Blazemaster, ew!)

Va'al wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Not everything needs to be connected. There's no need for it.

I agreed with this, mostly.

That said, I like how Barber does the connections in IDW. And the idea of Titans and colonies is still one I am very much in support of.

Key difference there, for me, is that those are in universe connections. The beast characters aren't from the Beast Wars cartoon universe, they just exist in that universe. This is cool! If they were magically transported there from prehistoric Earth, well, no thank you to that. Besides, remember what Mr. Roberts told us during that interview - Brainstorm created all these other universes anyway

megatronus wrote:Maybe I misunderstood, then. I thought the SG Unicron came as a surprise, and didn't realize there was an announcement or some storyline that justified the change. Eh, is what it is.

I totally get that, actually. SG Unicron existing is what brought it about. In fact, that comic isn't even all that new, it just took me so long to realize what had happened and see the reaction to it here and elsewhere that spurned it only now being a show topic.

ScottyP wrote:

Va'al wrote:

ScottyP wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Not everything needs to be connected. There's no need for it.

I agreed with this, mostly.

That said, I like how Barber does the connections in IDW. And the idea of Titans and colonies is still one I am very much in support of.

Key difference there, for me, is that those are in universe connections. The beast characters aren't from the Beast Wars cartoon universe, they just exist in that universe. This is cool! If they were magically transported there from prehistoric Earth, well, no thank you to that. Besides, remember what Mr. Roberts told us during that interview - Brainstorm created all these other universes anyway

And that is precisely why I like how it's been handled - Roberts' ego aside - and how Scott slowly brought them all in for John to play.

I do have to admit that the whole "multiverse birthed from Brainstorm's briefcase" Thing is funny and I love it!

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I do have to admit that the whole "multiverse birthed from Brainstorm's briefcase" Thing is funny and I love it!

I also believe it's made-up. But if upsets people who are REALLY concerned with canon and continuity - à la Alpha Bravo - then it's more than welcome to stay.

Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I do have to admit that the whole "multiverse birthed from Brainstorm's briefcase" Thing is funny and I love it!

I also believe it's made-up. But if upsets people who are REALLY concerned with canon and continuity - à la Alpha Bravo - then it's more than welcome to stay.

Well you can so choose to ignore it. I mean come one! It is an extremely arrogant read between the lines meaning and that just screams Robert being sassy about the whole thing! It doesn't need to be taken literally, but I love the idea. Like, universe Prime so to speak

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I do have to admit that the whole "multiverse birthed from Brainstorm's briefcase" Thing is funny and I love it!

I also believe it's made-up. But if upsets people who are REALLY concerned with canon and continuity - à la Alpha Bravo - then it's more than welcome to stay.

Well you can so choose to ignore it. I mean come one! It is an extremely arrogant read between the lines meaning and that just screams Robert being sassy about the whole thing! It doesn't need to be taken literally, but I love the idea. Like, universe Prime so to speak

Roberts? Sassy? Never.

Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I do have to admit that the whole "multiverse birthed from Brainstorm's briefcase" Thing is funny and I love it!

I also believe it's made-up. But if upsets people who are REALLY concerned with canon and continuity - à la Alpha Bravo - then it's more than welcome to stay.

Well you can so choose to ignore it. I mean come one! It is an extremely arrogant read between the lines meaning and that just screams Robert being sassy about the whole thing! It doesn't need to be taken literally, but I love the idea. Like, universe Prime so to speak

Roberts? Sassy? Never.

I know! It's like saying Pat Lee was the worst TF artist we ever had! Neither can possibly be true!

Note: What I'm about say contains some information originating from Ask Vector Prime. Apologies in advance to those who dislike the format of that fiction.

The notion of Brainstorm's briefcase having created the other universes of the multiverse is authorial intent, coming from the author rather than from anything he's actually written into his comic stories, so it's presently only pseudocanonical.

However, when Vector Prime was questioned about this notion, he gave the follow answer (which James Roberts contributed to):

To the best of my knowledge, when Perceptor tampered with the paradox locks on Brainstorm's time machine, it had a profound impact on the celestial mechanics... of that particular universe. Prior to its use, that reality was deterministic in nature. There were no offshoot realities. Now, though, that no longer appears to be the case.

I will offer a caveat, though, which is that if that event DID spawn the Multiverse, it did so with the Multiverse fully formed... meaning that, there is no philosophical way to know if the Multiverse, and my memories of it, and indeed your memories of your own existence, came into being the instant Perceptor's clumsy fumblings altered the causality constant of that portion of the universe.

In other words, we can say for certain that the briefcase did affect the universe of IDW's G1 comics, but it isn't concisely affirmative to tell if the multiverse's origins could be attributed to what happened with the briefcase.