Twincast / Podcast Episode #60 "Boundaries"

The link to download directly goes to episode #59.

bruticus1978 wrote:The link to download directly goes to episode #59.

Thanks, fixed! And welcome to the site!

Thanks! I was getting a bit antsy for the next episode yesterday, hoping a new one was on its way. Yeah!! You guys are great! Keep it up.

I collect many lines, but Beast Wars is BY FAR my favorite, and if I had to give up all but a single type of figure, the beasties would stay on the shelf and everything else would go.

I love the fiction, I love the figures, I love the designs and articulation and I love the creativity and diversity of the Beast Wars lines.

I have Classics, MP, 3rd party and tons of odds and ends in between, but nothing in my collection matters as much to me as my Beast Wars figures. Hell, I paid $1250 for the green Ramulus and I'm not even willing to shell out $350 for Fort Max, what does that tell you?

I grew up with G1, but Beast Wars is my favorite thing from the TF universe of all time.

Although I grew up with the Unicron Trilogy, I'm a sucker for figures that homage either Generation 1, Beast Wars, and the Unicron Trilogy characters. So pretty much, the entirety of Classics/Universe/Generations are like candy to me. Really expensive candy, the older the line is. Never did get the Classics Voyager Optimus....

I'm also a sucker for television-based lines. If the characters are cool enough, I'll happily fork out some cash to afford the toy that represents said character. Also, I normally stay away from simplistic Transformers (namely Bot Shots ).

I thought the show was really interesting when you guys started talking about buying habits, rules and the likes. It's something I'm having to deal with right now. Due to my limited shelf space, all the stuff I'm buying is having trouble finding a home. It makes me think when I end up having to either reorganize a shelf completely (something I'm not prone to do because I'm way lazy ) or squeeze in some new figure I love behind several that I'm just kinda 'meh' about.

For me though, as time passes it's hard to say what figures I'll love and which ones I will feel indifferent about. Seeing pictures and reviews is one thing, but actually getting a figure in hand is something totally different. Sadly, if I'm honest, most figures disappoint when it comes to that. They are often not quite as cool or fun as they seemed to be in those nice pics on BBTS or TFU or Seibertron. There are exceptions, but more often than not, they end up being so fidgety and delicate that it makes me long for the days when these toys felt more solid. Nowadays they're like little Beast Wars skeletons (but with cheaper plastic) with panels from car parts strapped to their limbs and their torsos.

Transforming them is a pain in the ass instead of being enjoyable and fun like they once were.

I've been thinking long and hard lately about my collecting habits, and while I'm still within my budget, I keep thinking that there are more and more figures coming out that I can do without. There are hard choices ahead, that's for sure. But nobody better touch my Beast Wars ! TF:Prime and Generations on the other hand, may end up getting the axe eventually. So much space used for toys that, for the most part, I only marginally enjoy.

I felt like this was a way cool episode.

Great podcast!

I just wanted to comment on the state of mid to late 90s Transformers at US retail.

Personally Beast Wars is what got me back into the fandom, and while there were fewer options it wasn't as dire as Seibertron made it sound. Having one focused line and four size classes may have limited the shelf space to half of a four foot section, but it was by no means uninteresting.

Resets were fewer and far between at Targets and Walmarts so the chances of stumbling upon an older mold or something that nowadays would be clearanced out after a quarter was far greater. And that made it EXCITING.

Also Beast Wars may have had fewer figures per capita but the case assortments and rate in which the molds were released was much more effective. Figures were evenly packed and peg warmers were infrequent (hello Injector) so entire cases sold through at rapid rates. Which led to a higher refresh rate.

Collecting in the 90s was unpredictible which made it cool. Each visit to a store was exciting. So despite having fewer choices, I feel the fandom was actually FAR healthier in terms of quality product at retail.

I would much rather have what we had then, as compared to the glut of passable knick knacks available now.

Just my two cents.

I think most of us Beast Wars guys collect a lot of lines. Most of us that grew up with Beast Wars are still in our 20's and haven't hit the wall in which we decide to limit ourselves to one line.

That said, I have cut down my collection to make room for Beast Wars expansion. If it ever comes down to it, Beast Wars comes down to being priority for me. I plan on always keeping my Beast Wars, Beast Machines and Animated figures though.

Though I do like about everything that is a beast former, and want most beast formers from G1 to present.

I think it's cool that you guys brought up, in the podcast, the big TakaraTomy G1 timeline that put all the non-Unicron Trilogy, non-Movieverse, non-Animated, etc. stuff into one giant timeline.

I say this because there's something I've been wanting to bring up about it on this site but kept forgetting to.

Many were baffled about such things like the inclusion of Car Robots and placing the Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo cartoons "tens of thousands of years later" after the Beast Wars and Beast Machines cartoons. However, I recently found out some justifications for these cases.

According to Andrew Hall of TakaraTomy, he contacted the author of that timeline and found out that Car Robots was included because, prior to the Unicron Trilogy, no series released in Japan clearly identified itself as an alternate continuity. Supplementary material for Car Robots released back in 2000 referred to the Destrongers as having come from the future, explaining their logos in the present day. Fire Convoy's team was also revealed to have come from the future with a toy bio declaring the Spychangers to be a new generation of TFs based on the G-2 Go-Bots, who DO exist in the future post-G1. Not to mention that Fire Convoy has an Energon Matrix in 2000, when the technology for which wouldn't be in development until 2035. The reason most didn't realize this was due to the show itself making really only one mention of it, and it was a vague mention at that. Vague enough that the Robots in Disguise English dub was able to ignore it altogether and dub it as a new continuity instead.

As for the far future placement of the two Japanese Beast Wars series, the whole idea of those shows existing in the contemporary present day of the American Beast Wars characters (the "300 years into the future" setting) came from a pack-in toy catalog that had Lio Convoy and Galvatron interacting with Optimus Primal and Megatron and, for years, fans took this catalog as gospel. But, this wasn't reflected in the shows themselves, with the timeline's placement seeming to come from the show's themselves, with only few aware of this since, well, the show's have been pretty hard to come by for the non-Japanese consumer.

Counterpunch wrote:I felt like this was a way cool episode.

Indeed!

The summer of 1998 I returned home from my first year at Fordham University. I thought it might be nice to bring my G1 Powermaster Optimus Prime back with me... maybe some of my other fun pieces. When I asked my parents where my collection was I got a series of... "look in the basement..... no?... Look in the attic... no? ... hmmm.... I think your mom may have sold them in the yard sale... hmmmm I think your dad may have sold them in the yard sale...."

Gone. The toys I planned to give to my children one day were gone.

Later, I sat smoking not tobacco with a friend of mine when she suggested a trip to Toys R' Us to get some art supplies. I hadn't been in a TRU in a decade. On a whim I walked through the action figure section and could not believe my eyes when I saw the Transformers Beast Wars logo on a box with a lion, eagle, and elephant in it.

"Holy shit they still make Transformers!"

Magnaboss was my first purchase in an attempt to reclaim my childhood. Megatron (Transmetles) joined the ranks when I stumbled upon him the following summer. When I returned to campus my Junior year my collection was still exceptionally small, but I now knew that they were still making these toys and for the price of a pitcher of beer I could grow my ranks... and I also soon discovered that my desire to grow the ranks was directly related to how much beer I had consumed.

Then Ebay came into popularity. Beast wars from Japan! How very exciting! This calls for a pitcher of beer! So now three addictions merged Alcohol and drug consumption + ebay bidding wars + Transformers = well, me. It's the thing that defines me. My own collection is still dwarfed by many I see posted here. I probably only have 375 or so between beast wars, G1, Movieverse, Altinators, classics, Prime, and a handful of Masterpiece and 3rd party.

I would have a very hard time parting with Magnaboss.

3rd party will get my money from here on out because from a collecting standpoint it is the rarer pieces that will grow in value. Everyone and their pet rock will buy most of the mainline and a ton of those will stay MIB.... which means because they are all around.... they won't appreciate. We all know that the true addict (me) will never sell so the appreciation doesn't matter... but one has to have standards and limits. Right now, my Fansproject and TFC Toys are just the better looking, higher quality toys on my shelf. If Hasbro and Takara start taking notes perhaps I'll shift back.

Good episode. Wouldn't want many like this one, as I think it would get a bit depressing, but everyone faces the time when they've got to rethink their collecting. I hit that recently, when I realized I just don't have anywhere to expand to. I've put shelves about anywhere I can on my walls without impeding normal living habits. Trimmed down lines I didn't care about anymore. Still working on selling them, but once I forced myself to make the decisions, I realized how remarkably easy it was to part with some of these.

I've been dealing with narrowing my collecting habits for a while now. I've narrowed it to Classics and MP that I'm still actively collecting, and I'm trying to narrow it down from there even further. Trying to phase out buying figures I don't remember as a kid, such as Stepper and Artfire. Prior to frequenting TF forums I had no idea who the hell those characters were. Problem is both those figures look hella-good...so I might make an exception if they get clearanced down enough. I also don't need odd MP repaints like Black Convoy/Nemesis Prime and Sunstorm that aren't very important to a G1 cast. Also trying to decide if I want to go as far as Red Alert, who has a decent enough role in G1, but I don't think the MP line will ever fill out that deep so I may just stick to more core characters.

I've even contemplated selling off most of my Classics and just doing MP because that would likely save me a ton of cash especially skipping over almost all the damn 3rd Party shit, but haven't been brave enough to go that far yet. Selling it all seems like a HUGE pain in the ass, too...especially coming up with all the necessary shipping supplies seems like such a nightmare, or at best, quite costly.

Where'd all of this love for Beast Wars come from all of a sudden? I thought I was alone in my love of Beast Wars. It's an era of Transformers I have neglected for a long time with the galleries ... maybe it's time to rethink the Beast Wars galleries with the resurgence of beast Transformers and seeing so many of you show your appreciation for Beast Wars.

Seibertron wrote:Where'd all of this love for Beast Wars come from all of a sudden? I thought I was alone in my love of Beast Wars. It's an era of Transformers I have neglected for a long time with the galleries ... maybe it's time to rethink the Beast Wars galleries with the resurgence of beast Transformers and seeing so many of you show your appreciation for Beast Wars.

Oh boy, Ryan, you should check out this thread.

$500 a month in toys? DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN! Send your hate emails to ihaterazorclaw@seibertron.com

This was definitely an episode that hit a little close to home for me. Good job on it!

I recently had to choose what could and could not come with me when I moved from my previous home to a new city, with only one vehicle to move things, and limited space at my new residence. I still eventually plan to go get everything else from my mom's place where it's safely stored, but that decision, of what can be left out of my collection, was definitely on my mind while listening to all of you talking about where lines can be drawn, what figures mean to you as a collector, and especially Mike's story of slashing and burning through his shelves to make room for what was really important.

I left my movie stuff behind, sadly there was also no room for my Unicron Trilogy stuff, and that included leaving behind my Armada Unicron and Cybertron Primus (Those WILL be rescued one day) though I did bring my Movie 25th Anniversary Unicron, mostly because it's more G1-ish and fits better with my Classicsverse stuff, which makes up the bulk of what I did take with me. Still unfortunately have nowhere to set any of them up, but I'm only a few weeks into living here and don't even have a job yet... as soon as I do, I'll be getting shelves and seeing what can go where.

Anyway, keep up the 'casting, and feel free to keep bringing us listeners the hard questions and tough truths of collecting our favourite robots in disguise, it's always nice to hear from you guys.

Seibertron wrote:Where'd all of this love for Beast Wars come from all of a sudden? I thought I was alone in my love of Beast Wars. It's an era of Transformers I have neglected for a long time with the galleries ... maybe it's time to rethink the Beast Wars galleries with the resurgence of beast Transformers and seeing so many of you show your appreciation for Beast Wars.

Are you kiddin' me?

As an aspiring United States Marine, I say this: I may have been born two days after its debut episode (figuratively), but watching the entire shebang a couple years back, LOVED THE FRIGGIN' CRAP OUTTA THAT CRAP.

I really liked the discussion on collecting and setting boundaries. With me I had to basically drop all non Transformer Japanese lines and can only buy select pieces from lines like MOTU and Marvel. I think the biggest issue with collecting nowadays is the fact that a figure doubles or triples in value 6 months to a year later on the secondary market. That just kills me

Ryan, Classic Movie & Comic Center is the Seven Mile and Middlebelt in Livonia comic book store, which closed around ten years ago.

Shout out to the Impatient Michiganders.

Good to see the responses here.

If anyone has questions about what was discussed or wants to give us grief, go right ahead.

I think I promised to post a link to the book: Legacy of Shadow: Master of the House

Seibertron wrote:Where'd all of this love for Beast Wars come from all of a sudden? I thought I was alone in my love of Beast Wars. It's an era of Transformers I have neglected for a long time with the galleries ... maybe it's time to rethink the Beast Wars galleries with the resurgence of beast Transformers and seeing so many of you show your appreciation for Beast Wars.

Most Beast Wars fans I know of are into a lot of areas of Transformers despite holding BW above most.

I mean, we managed to get 2 BW characters into the Hall of Fame over the last 3 years. Says something.

The real thing going on isn't a tapering off of BW fans, it is the general lack of enthusiasm that Hasbro even gives a damn about us BW fans anymore. We go 2 new figures in the Universe/Generations line and then Hasbro decided that G1 is all they were going to pretend exists.

I'm hoping Takara surprises us with like a Masterpiece Primal or something when Beast Wars 20th Anniversary roles around, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Lord Onixprime wrote:I'm hoping Takara surprises us with like a Masterpiece Primal or something when Beast Wars 20th Anniversary roles around, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

While I do agree that that would be awesome, I'm basically of the opinion that most of the Beast Wars Telemocha Series figures, as well as a few other certain figures like Henkei! Henkei! Dinobot, are already the most perfect representations of those specific BW characters that they don't need MPs of their own. After all, the Maximals and Predacons are supposed to be much smaller than the Autobots and Decepticons, so their being Deluxes makes them already closer to scale with the much larger 'Bot/'Con MPs.

Collection criteria?

Only started collecting right after Animated ended. Ultimately I want a display of the animated movie cast, not necessarily with a G1 look. Generations, RTS and United have been very good to me in this regard providing Kup, Blurr and the Junkions (as many different variation of them as I can get). Masterpiece Grimlock in T-Rex mode scales beautifully.
Perfect Effect Arcee and Fansproject Springer fill in gaps that can't be filled with official toys.
Still looking for an affordable City Commander and something for Hot Rod.

Have a side collection of TF: Prime figures but I'll be hitting the brakes on that soon. Pretty unimpressed by what little we have seen of season 3. Might only get Smokescreen and BH Soundwave solely for Ravage.

Interesting idea to get rid of the the forums. I do hope you'd consider keeping the non TF threads as that's how a great deal of us communicate.

Sabrblade wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:I'm hoping Takara surprises us with like a Masterpiece Primal or something when Beast Wars 20th Anniversary roles around, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

While I do agree that that would be awesome, I'm basically of the opinion that most of the Beast Wars Telemocha Series figures, as well as a few other certain figures like Henkei! Henkei! Dinobot, are already the most perfect representations of those specific BW characters that they don't need MPs of their own. After all, the Maximals and Predacons are supposed to be much smaller than the Autobots and Decepticons, so their being Deluxes makes them already closer to scale with the much larger 'Bot/'Con MPs.

I'm with you on that. The TM series was an epic set of figures. That Primal is PERFECT.

What I'd like to see are not MP, but new deluxe molds for season 1 Airazor, Rhinox, Terrorsaur and Scorponok that look closer to the show. Even a new Cheetor/Tigatron mold (with a new, more 'catlike' bothead and kibble arms that fold behind the back of the bot mode like on the show) would be awesome as well. I've considered often times attempting such a mod myself by somehow adding a hinge, but I'm not too confident that I'd get it right.

Sabrblade wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:I'm hoping Takara surprises us with like a Masterpiece Primal or something when Beast Wars 20th Anniversary roles around, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

While I do agree that that would be awesome, I'm basically of the opinion that most of the Beast Wars Telemocha Series figures, as well as a few other certain figures like Henkei! Henkei! Dinobot, are already the most perfect representations of those specific BW characters that they don't need MPs of their own. After all, the Maximals and Predacons are supposed to be much smaller than the Autobots and Decepticons, so their being Deluxes makes them already closer to scale with the much larger 'Bot/'Con MPs.

I'd totally settle for a 20th Anniversary Generations Beast Wars line, with a brandy new Voyager Primal and Megatron, and then preferably a Voyager Rhinox and Inferno. Deluxes of the rest, and a new Cheetor, because the Universe one, just wasn't very good. I don't care if they just stick to season 1 either, but something to acknowledge its achievements and importance to the franchise.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:I'm hoping Takara surprises us with like a Masterpiece Primal or something when Beast Wars 20th Anniversary roles around, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

While I do agree that that would be awesome, I'm basically of the opinion that most of the Beast Wars Telemocha Series figures, as well as a few other certain figures like Henkei! Henkei! Dinobot, are already the most perfect representations of those specific BW characters that they don't need MPs of their own. After all, the Maximals and Predacons are supposed to be much smaller than the Autobots and Decepticons, so their being Deluxes makes them already closer to scale with the much larger 'Bot/'Con MPs.

I'd totally settle for a 20th Anniversary Generations Beast Wars line, with a brandy new Voyager Primal and Megatron, and then preferably a Voyager Rhinox and Inferno. Deluxes of the rest, and a new Cheetor, because the Universe one, just wasn't very good. I don't care if they just stick to season 1 either, but something to acknowledge its achievements and importance to the franchise.

Voyager Dinobot too since he was the tallest season 1 Maximal.

Sabrblade wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:I'm hoping Takara surprises us with like a Masterpiece Primal or something when Beast Wars 20th Anniversary roles around, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

While I do agree that that would be awesome, I'm basically of the opinion that most of the Beast Wars Telemocha Series figures, as well as a few other certain figures like Henkei! Henkei! Dinobot, are already the most perfect representations of those specific BW characters that they don't need MPs of their own. After all, the Maximals and Predacons are supposed to be much smaller than the Autobots and Decepticons, so their being Deluxes makes them already closer to scale with the much larger 'Bot/'Con MPs.

I'd totally settle for a 20th Anniversary Generations Beast Wars line, with a brandy new Voyager Primal and Megatron, and then preferably a Voyager Rhinox and Inferno. Deluxes of the rest, and a new Cheetor, because the Universe one, just wasn't very good. I don't care if they just stick to season 1 either, but something to acknowledge its achievements and importance to the franchise.

Voyager Dinobot too since he was the tallest season 1 Maximal.

Mind officially blown.

Mindmaster wrote:Mind officially blown.

Hmm, looking at this chart, looks like some characters are more differently size than we thought. Primal's shorter than Megs, Scorponok's tiny... er, I don't think I like that.

Their sizes/scale frequently varied (even within a single set of scenes within a single episode), particularly during season 1. It frequently had more to do with dramatic effect than anything else.

Sabrblade wrote:

Mindmaster wrote:Mind officially blown.

Hmm, looking at this chart, looks like some characters are more differently size than we thought. Primal's shorter than Megs, Scorponok's tiny... er, I don't think I like that.

That's not a very good size chart, as it was done well before they even redesigned the characters to not completely emulate their toys. Terrorsaur is evidence to that, as he was always around the same height as Waspinator and Scorponok, and definitely never taller than Primal.

Well, either way, we do at least know the heights of the original season 1 Maximals, from tallest to shortest, were Dinobot, Rhinox, Optimus Primal, Cheetor, and Rattrap.

Not sure exactly about Tigatron and/or Airazor. Tigatron was at least taller than Cheetor, and Airazor was at least shorter than both him and Optimus (but taller than Rattrap, IIRC).

I'd welcome a Beast Wars line about now...as crappy as the new guys are at TF design at this point, go ahead and let them practice on Beast Wars crap for a while.

Speaking from personal experience, this is what it is like to enter a toy aisle with Razorclaw.

"Hey Bob, do you have that one?"

"Yes."

And repeat...

Kick out a new podcast slackers! J/k. But seriously, I've been missing it

Kick out a new podcast slackers! J/k. But seriously, I've been missing it