Twincast / Podcast Episode #89 "Degeneration One"

I don't know if we were reading different comics or what. A couple of things.

"Marvel G1 Megatron is just as important as Optimus Prime." Hmm, that is an odd statement. Megatron was deposed by Shockwave like issue 6, challenges Optimus at some point causing Optimus to commit suicide then is deposed again runs around as an empty... you get the point. Marvel Megatron was hardly ever in charge. He even gets lost in a space bridge accident. Shockwave, Scorpinok, Bludgeon and heck even Ratbat have great times when they ruled the Decepticons. Megatron in the Marvel comics was really given the shaft. I thought that it was brilliant to actually make him matter by him descending further into madness.

"Optimus left Earth alone for 21 years for no reason" Do you guys even know Marvel Optimus? He was very guilty over what the Transformers did to Earth and when Primus teleported them back to Cybertron he basically promised the Neo-Knights never to return. Period. For all Optimus knew, all the transformers were on Cybertron (given Primus teleported them all there it was a safe assumption). He also became super introspective and was grooming Hot Rod to succeed him.

I feel like all these critiques are not treating the Marvel G1 as its own beast and viewing the comic through the Transformers metanarrarive. I haven't even gotten through much more of the podcast. The Deathbringer (evil matrix creature) was a real thing and was a bone for UK Marvel fans to gnaw on because they felt left out given Furman said that he wasn't going to include Marvel UK as canon. (also it was referenced in the US comics giving it more credence to be used in Regen One). Shockwave, Starscream and Ravage are redeemed... so what. Don't they deserve a happy ending after all they went through?

Edit

Okay, I had to stop listening when you all said that Rodimus became Botanica. The demons became cocoons. The cocoons survived those millions of years until Rodimus finally kicked the bucket. The Matrix energy in him was unleashed and was channeled into the cocoons and they emerged as the next generation of Transformers. Yeah, it is an explanation of Beast Wars. It explains why no Transformers from G1 survive in that era. You all admitted to just skimming the book and not reading it in depth. Go back and reread the whole series in depth and you will pick up on those themes.

Also, Gundam is not like that at all. While there are midseason upgrades, UC Gundam usually has technology advancing as war is going on around them, just like real life. Think of all the technological strides in World War II that occured. Heck, we could not even fight German tanks until the end of the war. I guess that is IRL power level power creep. And I don't think that Char's Counterattack is 'low fiction'. Even the beloved Beast Wars had power levels ie Transmetals anyone? (and I dare shudder to think when people will call Beast Wars low fiction here given that is what Beast Wars fans call those who are fans of G1).

Ugh, well now this is an ultra long internet comment. You don't have to agree with it. This is just how I feel the show missed the mark on reviewing Regen One.

Ha! Just downloaded and the title comes up as "Oh Shit!"



Looking forward to listening tomorrow.

burning_sirius wrote:Ugh, well now this is an ultra long internet comment. You don't have to agree with it. This is just how I feel the show missed the mark on reviewing Regen One.

We didn't miss the mark, we just have strongly different views. I'm glad you have different views about Regeneration because it is nice to hear more glowing comments about it than how I feel about the series. Differences in opinion make for far more interesting comments than everyone simply agreeing with each other.

I'll have to go back and listen, but I don't think I specified "Marvel G1 Megatron". G1 Megatron is just as important as G1 Optimus Prime. The Marvel G1 Megatron got the short end of the st1ick. The "G1 Megatron is just as important as G1 Optimus Prime" statement is one that I've made regularly since I heard someone say it at a Hasbro event some time during the past 10 years. If I misspoke, it was by accident.

Bottom line to me is this ... having written my own stories about the continuation of Marvel's original 80 issue run on the Transformers, Regeneration One was just not what I expected nor did I want. I was really let down by the whole series and still stand by that Furman's best writing has always been during his original 1980s Marvel Transformers run.

Ok, I have to clarify the last couple of comments because I don't think ScottyP or myself skimmed through the book. I know I didn't. I came up straight from the comic store, sat down in my work chair and read through every panel.

burning_sirius wrote:"Optimus left Earth alone for 21 years for no reason" Do you guys even know Marvel Optimus? He was very guilty over what the Transformers did to Earth and when Primus teleported them back to Cybertron he basically promised the Neo-Knights never to return. Period. For all Optimus knew, all the transformers were on Cybertron (given Primus teleported them all there it was a safe assumption).

You're giving the story itself too much credit. Considering the magnitude of the Transformers war, someone should have gone back to clean up the mess regardless of whatever ill stated promises Optimus may have made. I don't recall any such promise made by Optimus (do you have an issue # I can refer to?) but regardless, someone should have gone back. The absence of the Ark alone should have prompted a visit since the Transformers have often been very concerned with their technology falling into the wrong hands.

burning_sirius wrote:He also became super introspective and was grooming Hot Rod to succeed him.

... for 21 years. I'd buy any of the above (not going back to Earth, grooming Hot Rod, etc, if it had been a year since the events of #80, but not 21 years. That's an absurd and unnecessary stretch which continues to be a very odd habit that Furman has where he seems to enjoy dating his stories by forcefully putting it in the present day instead of using ambiguous dating techniques that don't put specific dates or years on stories so that they don't become dated so quickly.

burning_sirius wrote:I feel like all these critiques are not treating the Marvel G1 as its own beast and viewing the comic through the Transformers metanarrarive. I haven't even gotten through much more of the podcast.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. I definitely viewed it as its own beast. I don't like that it stayed as its own beast and am very disappointed by the story itself acknowledging other Transformers multiverses.

burning_sirius wrote:The Deathbringer (evil matrix creature) was a real thing and was a bone for UK Marvel fans to gnaw on because they felt left out given Furman said that he wasn't going to include Marvel UK as canon.

Regeneration One was a slew of UK references from Ultra Magnus and Galvatron fighting to the Wreckers and more.

burning_sirius wrote:Shockwave, Starscream and Ravage are redeemed... so what. Don't they deserve a happy ending after all they went through?

I don't know. Maybe. I guess I would have rather have had the story be about Galvatron, Shockwave, Starscream, Fortress Maximus and such instead of it being about Jhiaxus, Deathbringer, and Multiverses. Considering how little presence Decepticons actually had in #100, it was just a massive let down to me. The story should always be about Autobots and Decepticons. When it gets away from that core element, it's always a let down to me. I'd rather read about Decepticons than about Deathbringers and Multiverses.

burning_sirius wrote:Okay, I had to stop listening when you all said that Rodimus became Botanica. The demons became cocoons. The cocoons survived those millions of years until Rodimus finally kicked the bucket. The Matrix energy in him was unleashed and was channeled into the cocoons and they emerged as the next generation of Transformers. Yeah, it is an explanation of Beast Wars. It explains why no Transformers from G1 survive in that era.

And that was something that was completely unnecessary and not needed. I didn't need to see an aged Rodimus Prime. That just creates a whole slew of other problems. So the entire Transformers race as we know it dies out in 300 years? A race of highly advanced alien robots that has survived civil wars for millions of years all of a sudden dies out after they find peace? There was no need in the last page or two of Regeneration One to try to tie in the original stand alone Marvel Transformers storyline into the Beast Wars storyline. Yah, some elements from the comics ended up in Beast Wars but I didn't need someone to connect the dots for me. That was just plain silly and a waste of space in Regeneration One.

burning_sirius wrote:You all admitted to just skimming the book and not reading it in depth. Go back and reread the whole series in depth and you will pick up on those themes.

Again, I never said I skimmed through the book. I read every page of it. Twice, and I still don't like it. I believe ScottyP was pretty invested in Regen as well.

burning_sirius wrote:Ugh, well now this is an ultra long internet comment. You don't have to agree with it. This is just how I feel the show missed the mark on reviewing Regen One.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your views about Regeneration One with us. I welcome further discussion about it and I'm actually really happy to see someone staunchly defend Regeneration One as it seems there has been little defense of it. Would love to hear more views defending things we didn't like about it.

I am actually with burning_sirius on this one. I really liked ReGen One, although it wasn't perfect. I'll have to post more in-depth about it later, but suffice to say, I am a ReGen One (though not a Simon Furman) fan.

As for who MP Bumblebee could be redecoed into, I think they'll likely do a Red Bumblebee, though I would LOVE to see a MP Glyph....she'd be the first female MP, and they already have the tooling for her face. I also think Bug Bite would be a good choice (though fairly obscure, like Glyph) and maybe even in orange, as Volks (now THERE'S an obscure character).

Seibertron wrote:Ok, I have to clarify the last couple of comments because I don't think ScottyP or myself skimmed through the book. I know I didn't. I came up straight from the comic store, sat down in my work chair and read through every panel.

From about 96 on, I read it pretty thoroughly, usually twice for each issue. Before that, read it once quickly, but never again, and I think that probably comes across in the show



On another topic altogether

Some reports on Twitter say iTunes downloading is currently an issue, anyone else having this problem?

ScottyP wrote:Some reports on Twitter say iTunes downloading is currently an issue, anyone else having this problem?

It's not on iTunes yet. Have to give it 24 hours for it to display.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/seibertron-com-twincast-podcast/id430391340

Seibertron wrote:

ScottyP wrote:Some reports on Twitter say iTunes downloading is currently an issue, anyone else having this problem?

It's not on iTunes yet. Have to give it 24 hours for it to display.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/seibertron-com-twincast-podcast/id430391340

ScottyP wrote:Episode 89 "Degeneration One" is available directly and in our RSS Feed and should appear on iTunes within 24 to 48 hours of this news post.

Though now that I read that, we should change the last bit since there's sometimes a delay from your forum post and me actually posting the episode (just in case anyone is using the topic's timestamp instead of the news post's timestamp)

This will keep me company during tomorrow's marking session. Catchya later.

Hmmm, I have conflicted opinions about Regeneration One. Was it a mistake to resurrect the original series? I don't know. The pace of modern comics is absurd. I feel like all 20 issues of the run would have taken up about 5 original issues. I blame narrative decompression. The stories felt a bit rushed and un-focused. I hated the fact that my favourite UK story arcs were removed from canon. But... it still resonated with me. I felt a little choked when Rodimus was dying, knowing that all others had died too. I appreciate the attempt to rationalise Beast Wars, and the complete lack of any characters from the G1 era (ravage and starscreams ghost excepted) in that timeline has now been explained. Also, I'm not sure why 21 years is the focus of anyone's ire. It is but a blink of an eye for aliens who live millions of years.

Banjo-Tron wrote:Hmmm, I have conflicted opinions about Regeneration One. Was it a mistake to resurrect the original series? I don't know. The pace of modern comics is absurd. I feel like all 20 issues of the run would have taken up about 5 original issues. I blame narrative decompression. The stories felt a bit rushed and un-focused. I hated the fact that my favourite UK story arcs were removed from canon. But... it still resonated with me. I felt a little choked when Rodimus was dying, knowing that all others had died too. I appreciate the attempt to rationalise Beast Wars, and the complete lack of any characters from the G1 era (ravage and starscreams ghost excepted) in that timeline has now been explained. Also, I'm not sure why 21 years is the focus of anyone's ire. It is but a blink of an eye for aliens who live millions of years.

There is also the realization that sometimes more happens in a year in history than in the previous 20 years. History must be a crummy story when several decades can be peaceful a sudden change happens that changes he entire political landscape in a year or two. Lulls happen, and Optimus was lulled into a false sense of security putting his head in the sand to the reality around him. That is what Marvel Optimus does. He isn't the I will rip Megatron's face off Optimus Prime. However, when he makes a decision, he will take decisive action. But! This wasn't Optimus' story. That ended in issue 80. This was Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime's story. I am glad we finally got a great Rodimus Prime story when Rodimus can be Rodimus. I am glad Furman acknowledged the works and contributions of other authors in Transformers. It was very nice of him to give so many nods.

Can someone please explain to me why the Generation 2 story line was skipped over? I guess that's why I got a bit confused at first when I started reading this. I had no idea Generation 2 was being skipped over.

Hey Jon, Will Friedle's surname is pronounced "Frih-DELL". Hope that helps.

MR Optimus Prime wrote:Can someone please explain to me why the Generation 2 story line was skipped over? I guess that's why I got a bit confused at first when I started reading this. I had no idea Generation 2 was being skipped over.

The reason was because Furman wanted to tell the story that he wanted to tell from where he left off with issue #80, and Generation 2 would have interfered with that, so he omitted it.

I think those high end statues are for collectors who think toys are too childish. I know there's quite a few Star Wars fans who go for the really high end prop replicas, pewter statues, and glassware but thumb their noses at the toys. That's just an example that came to my mind, I'm sure there are other collectors like that in other fandoms.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:I think those high end statues are for collectors who think toys are too childish. I know there's quite a few Star Wars fans who go for the really high end prop replicas, pewter statues, and glassware but thumb their noses at the toys. That's just an example that came to my mind, I'm sure there are other collectors like that in other fandoms.

I've been considering getting one but have nowhere to display it - apparently in our living room copious amounts of cushions and throws are ok, whereas amazingly sculpted and detailed renditions of my childhood heroes are not. Women eh.

Banjo-Tron wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:I think those high end statues are for collectors who think toys are too childish. I know there's quite a few Star Wars fans who go for the really high end prop replicas, pewter statues, and glassware but thumb their noses at the toys. That's just an example that came to my mind, I'm sure there are other collectors like that in other fandoms.

I've been considering getting one but have nowhere to display it - apparently in our living room copious amounts of cushions and throws are ok, whereas amazingly sculpted and detailed renditions of my childhood heroes are not. Women eh.

Well sometimes you have to do what YOU want. Every once in a while it doesn't matter what the other person wants and they should just be made to deal with it.

MR Optimus Prime wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:I think those high end statues are for collectors who think toys are too childish. I know there's quite a few Star Wars fans who go for the really high end prop replicas, pewter statues, and glassware but thumb their noses at the toys. That's just an example that came to my mind, I'm sure there are other collectors like that in other fandoms.

I've been considering getting one but have nowhere to display it - apparently in our living room copious amounts of cushions and throws are ok, whereas amazingly sculpted and detailed renditions of my childhood heroes are not. Women eh.

Well sometimes you have to do what YOU want. Every once in a while it doesn't matter what the other person wants and they should just be made to deal with it.

To quote the Rock tell her to "Know her role, and shut her mouth!" FYI I'm not responsible for the ass kicking or divorce that might follow.

Lol, well I have a mighty muggs Optimus by the TV and she bought me MP-01b for my birthday once so she ain't all bad

Finally got round to this, and all I have to contribute is the actual sales number for IDW Transformers One #100. In North America, via Diamond Distribution - sourced from the site that you all mentioned: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 14-03.html.

168 Transformers Regeneration One 100 $5.99 IDW 11,153

190 Transformers More Than Meets Eye 27 $3.99 IDW 9,552
191 Transformers Robots In Disguise 27 $3.99 IDW 9,409
192 Transformers Dark Cybertron Finale 1 $3.99 IDW 9,395


For reference, the top five for the same month (March 2014):

1 Batman 29 $4.99 DC 116,926
2 Superman Unchained 6 $3.99 DC 94,147
3 Forever Evil 6 $3.99 DC 92,036
4 Sandman Overture 2 $3.99 DC 89,711
5 Superior Spider-Man 29 $3.99 Marvel 76,568

Va'al wrote:Finally got round to this, and all I have to contribute is the actual sales number for IDW Transformers One #100. In North America, via Diamond Distribution - sourced from the site that you all mentioned: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 14-03.html.

168 Transformers Regeneration One 100 $5.99 IDW 11,153

190 Transformers More Than Meets Eye 27 $3.99 IDW 9,552
191 Transformers Robots In Disguise 27 $3.99 IDW 9,409
192 Transformers Dark Cybertron Finale 1 $3.99 IDW 9,395

Not only crazy to me how consistent their numbers are on these books, but also that not even 10,000 get shipped out for each issue. I'd be super curious what the digital distribution numbers are like. Anywhere out there with that data?

Nothing I can find, much to my frustration.