Why I'm Happy the IDW Transformers Universe is Ending

ZeroWolf wrote:Children's toys? Yes but the comics are geared for older fans, teenagers at least. Thus more mature storytelling is encouraged.

Sparkimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Children's toys? Yes but the comics are geared for older fans, teenagers at least. Thus more mature storytelling is encouraged.

IDW comics were included in a lot of the recent Generations toys. You can't really separate the two. My point was the comics are meant for all audiences.

Skritz wrote:The worst of IDW Transformers has certainly been, in spite of everything else, the issue of continuity and the multiple titles and multiple writers. The sheer density of retcon, rewrites and continuity shifting so endemic to comics has simply made it an impossible to follow mess. The addition of the rest of the Hasbro properties has only made this worse. This simply is not the same creature that was Furman's original idea to reboot the franchise back in the early 2000 but rather turned into the pet abomination of fanboys canonizing their own silly ideas or, as people sometimes call it, inmates running the asylum.

IDW Transformers is a mess. I'm glad it is getting put out of it's misery.

ZeroWolf wrote:Yet that also stopped not long after it started with only the thrilling 30 and combiner wars deluxes doing it (only American editions at that). So I don't think kids will be reading them now...not that they would have then as it really wasn't wise plonking people right in the middle of an arc, or with the case of combiner wars, splitting the story up in waves that a collector may not even see them all at retail.

All that aside though, I don't think kids are that bother by tf comics, so we shouldn't force the comics to be all ages when it can tackle darker themes and more complex issues.

Va'al wrote:

Sparkimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Children's toys? Yes but the comics are geared for older fans, teenagers at least. Thus more mature storytelling is encouraged.

IDW comics were included in a lot of the recent Generations toys. You can't really separate the two. My point was the comics are meant for all audiences.

Va'al wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Yet that also stopped not long after it started with only the thrilling 30 and combiner wars deluxes doing it (only American editions at that). So I don't think kids will be reading them now...not that they would have then as it really wasn't wise plonking people right in the middle of an arc, or with the case of combiner wars, splitting the story up in waves that a collector may not even see them all at retail.

All that aside though, I don't think kids are that bother by tf comics, so we shouldn't force the comics to be all ages when it can tackle darker themes and more complex issues.

Thing is though, children's media already tackles all of those 'more complex' issues.

Look at anything Disney and Pixar have put out in past 10 years. Or Laika. Or any YA book. If people are willing to complain about 'simple' toys taking kids for dumb when they're not, then we should also stop taking kids for dumb when providing them with potentially challenging media!

Sparkimus Prime wrote:

Va'al wrote:

Sparkimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Children's toys? Yes but the comics are geared for older fans, teenagers at least. Thus more mature storytelling is encouraged.

IDW comics were included in a lot of the recent Generations toys. You can't really separate the two. My point was the comics are meant for all audiences.

If that was meant to be a joke, maybe take your job a little more seriously. If that was meant to be serious, I feel bad for you.

Sparkimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Children's toys? Yes but the comics are geared for older fans, teenagers at least. Thus more mature storytelling is encouraged.

IDW comics were included in a lot of the recent Generations toys. You can't really separate the two. My point was the comics are meant for all audiences.

Skritz wrote:The thing is, to me, IDW Transformers was on a downward slope before even politics reared their ugly head simple because of the aforementioned issue of continuity and fanboys running the asylum. It's not to say fan-pandering is inherently bad but with a 13-years old continuity it run the risk of becoming (and did become) an inapproachable mess of self-referential continuity and fan-pandering. A story need to be able to be relatively self contained with a beginning/middle/end and comics with their ongoing nature and often drastic changes in writers are terrible at wrapping stories up compared to cartoons. By the very nature of the medium, it's function and desire you WANT to keep things running whereas a TV show usually knows it only has a few seasons.

I'm glad it's ending with a bang but I still abide by my point that it's dragged on for way too long.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Skritz wrote:The thing is, to me, IDW Transformers was on a downward slope before even politics reared their ugly head simple because of the aforementioned issue of continuity and fanboys running the asylum. It's not to say fan-pandering is inherently bad but with a 13-years old continuity it run the risk of becoming (and did become) an inapproachable mess of self-referential continuity and fan-pandering. A story need to be able to be relatively self contained with a beginning/middle/end and comics with their ongoing nature and often drastic changes in writers are terrible at wrapping stories up compared to cartoons. By the very nature of the medium, it's function and desire you WANT to keep things running whereas a TV show usually knows it only has a few seasons.

I'm glad it's ending with a bang but I still abide by my point that it's dragged on for way too long.

Try telling that to the big two comic makers

Also thirteen years is quite ironic don't you think considering the franchise

Burn wrote:DC/Marvel like to do their "reboots" and call them "jumping on points", great way to attract new readers.

IDW Transformers never had that. Oh people can say they've ended one title to start another, BUT ... those new books will often refer back to some stupidly annoying plot point from 5+ years ago and that is the one thing that shitted me off the most about these books. Casual readers aren't going to remember some incredibly minor plot point from years ago.

Burn wrote:Plus all the political and SJW nonsense.

I'm in two minds about this.

On one hand, Transformers is a setting mainly revolved around war, which more often than not is politically motivated, especially when brought into a more modern context. Plus going back to the root of G1 has "Peace Through Tyranny" vs "Freedom is the Right Of All Sentient Beings" - those two statements alone put a political ideal at the very heart of Transformers (in my opinion). Characters need motivations to be involved in the Autobot\Decepticon war and exploring those facets of characters is often going to draw out some level of their politics and ethics. Social justice is itself political (cite - Optimus Prime's motto again), so I'm not surprised when x,y,z movements of last\this century get shadowed in my robot comic. Sexuality I can take or leave it - the G1 show had its 'romances', as did the comic to a much lesser degree (Ultra Magnus and Cindy? ) and characters being homo\bi\pan\ect~sexual doesn't phase me when 90%+ of the population seems to be their equivalent to being male.

On the other hand... "forcing the issue"... leaves a bad taste in the mouth as a reader. Political motivations, equality questions, 'moral' stories - they're all great starting points for drama, when well written - even when its written specifically to have a certain effect. But - when its two dimensional and written just for the sake of inclusion (or indeed, condemnation) - then it sucks all the drama and quality out of it. I don't want to be preached to and if you're going to lace your story with your own political agenda - you need to give the "opposite" side more of a reason to be disagreeable than "I'm a massive asshole, just because". Done well - you have Megatron, who I felt was handled excellently. Done badly, you have Sentinel Prime during the whole Titan Master thing... ugh.

Burn wrote:That being said, I could overlook the majority of that and enjoy the majority of the books, but I'm glad it's ending because you have a beginning and you have an ending, thirteen years has been an incredible run and there'd be few comic book series out there that can claim they did that.

But as for them starting again ... eh, how many times can we rehash the same old war? They're really going to have to step their game up.

Tommy T. wrote:Yeah I 100% agree, idw transformers is a complete mess. Stories jumping around , politics, robots in love with each other holding hands and hugging. Good riddance.

Cheesinator wrote:Reading the brazen bigotry of some people on this forum never fails to make me laugh. There is genuine comedy in the fact that an IP based around transforming alien robots has fans who are absolutely horrified by change.

I'm genuinely sorry that you guys were unable to enjoy these stories because of your personal beliefs/issues (or, in layman's terms, the "SJW nonsense" and "sexual dysphoria" ) but I've personally had a hell of a ride and taken great pleasure in introducing friends to the TF franchise via the IDW comics.

I'm glad the stories will reach definitive conclusions. If anything it will drive me to read some of the arcs/series again in the context of the overall story.

Skritz wrote:And because I'm a masochist who love to put himself into trouble:

There's a major difference in quality between clearly political works which remain nonetheless loved and enjoyable and the modern trite often churned out by hacks who also happen to be completely awful people. This seem to be quite the trend in comics that, when you don't really have any particular talent at storytelling, you resort to boring non-stories which consistent of some mix of talking mouthpieces spouting entire walls of text in speech balloons, shitty unsubtle and even stupid political allegory or just flat out demonizing a huge strawman. Something Marvel has been pretty **** bad at. See: She-Thor and the oh-so-memed to death [Unsolicited Opinions on Israel???] moment.

Robocop is a heavily political movie with a ton of social critique of it's era but had has held up because it is MORE than just Paul Verhoeven ranting about his views on certain things. It has a lot of unique artistic touches, excellent action scenes, touching moments, likeable and unlikable-in-a-good-way character and even some mild, possibly accidental symbolism (Robocop is cyborg American police Jesus?). What people have been increasingly objecting to is the vitriolic, in-your-face writing often seen in comics these days. Perhaps if the writers understood subtlety and nuance it would not be as noticeable and perhaps there would be more to like in those comics than just people making fun of extremely cringeworthy dialogue. What I'm trying to say is you can make the argument of "Everything is political, man" but then that doesn't mean it's written well or in any way that is smart.

So in other words: don't be boring. Don't be a bad writer.

Amelie wrote:

Burn wrote:Plus all the political and SJW nonsense.

I'm in two minds about this.

On one hand, Transformers is a setting mainly revolved around war, which more often than not is politically motivated, especially when brought into a more modern context. Plus going back to the root of G1 has "Peace Through Tyranny" vs "Freedom is the Right Of All Sentient Beings" - those two statements alone put a political ideal at the very heart of Transformers (in my opinion). Characters need motivations to be involved in the Autobot\Decepticon war and exploring those facets of characters is often going to draw out some level of their politics and ethics. Social justice is itself political (cite - Optimus Prime's motto again), so I'm not surprised when x,y,z movements of last\this century get shadowed in my robot comic. Sexuality I can take or leave it - the G1 show had its 'romances', as did the comic to a much lesser degree (Ultra Magnus and Cindy? ) and characters being homo\bi\pan\ect~sexual doesn't phase me when 90%+ of the population seems to be their equivalent to being male.

On the other hand... "forcing the issue"... leaves a bad taste in the mouth as a reader. Political motivations, equality questions, 'moral' stories - they're all great starting points for drama, when well written - even when its written specifically to have a certain effect. But - when its two dimensional and written just for the sake of inclusion (or indeed, condemnation) - then it sucks all the drama and quality out of it. I don't want to be preached to and if you're going to lace your story with your own political agenda - you need to give the "opposite" side more of a reason to be disagreeable than "I'm a massive asshole, just because". Done well - you have Megatron, who I felt was handled excellently. Done badly, you have Sentinel Prime during the whole Titan Master thing... ugh.

Amelie wrote:13 years is more than long enough. Especially when the lore is getting more patchy than Joseph's Technicolor Dreamcoat and as threadbare as Father John's favorite "sin sock". Tying the loose ends up and giving the continuity a 'proper' ending that is well planned out is much better than say the original Marvel run with "Hey Simon, you only have a few issues to wrap this up - Transformers is over" and the (really awful, imo) Last Autobot crap.

I agree about the "same old war". I really don't want another war comic, if I'm honest. Lost Light's "Star Trek" formula wasn't a bad idea in concept, but from what I've been reading of it - the implementation seemed wonky and became far too claustrophobic and "clicky".

If its going to be a "war comic", I'd much rather the "war" was something that was going on, with stories centering around pocketfuls of characters for a while, without having to necessarily advance the war (ie - whilst group A was doing this, group B was doing this, and C ect, so the continuity remained almost a static constant, with stories set within it, creating numerous on\off points for new and old readers)

Bronzewolf wrote:"HA! This is bad comedy!"

Transformers has had robots holding hands and hugging since G1. Since Elita 1 and the femmbots. Since Powerglide's girlfriend. Since Seaspray's girlfriend.
Oh, unless, perhaps, it's the same sex couples people specifically have a problem with. Yes, in a series about autonomous robots. That don't even have organic genders to begin with. Why should it matter? It's a much more accepting world, with increased representation of sexualities, genders, races, and religion in ALL forms of media. Get used to it, because that's all any media is going to be for the rest of time. Complaining about politics in a story based around a war between two races of a species is a redundant and fruitless battle.

I'm sure that will get me all sorts of comments, but *shrug*

One of the main reasons I'm glad it's ending is so I can pick up on page 1. Be with the new continuity from the beginning, and not have a 13 year backlog staring me down. I look forward to seeing where it goes from here,

fenrir72 wrote:

Bronzewolf wrote:"HA! This is bad comedy!"

Transformers has had robots holding hands and hugging since G1. Since Elita 1 and the femmbots. Since Powerglide's girlfriend. Since Seaspray's girlfriend.
Oh, unless, perhaps, it's the same sex couples people specifically have a problem with. Yes, in a series about autonomous robots. That don't even have organic genders to begin with. Why should it matter? It's a much more accepting world, with increased representation of sexualities, genders, races, and religion in ALL forms of media. Get used to it, because that's all any media is going to be for the rest of time. Complaining about politics in a story based around a war between two races of a species is a redundant and fruitless battle.

I'm sure that will get me all sorts of comments, but *shrug*

One of the main reasons I'm glad it's ending is so I can pick up on page 1. Be with the new continuity from the beginning, and not have a 13 year backlog staring me down. I look forward to seeing where it goes from here,

So you don't want the consumer, who has some purchasing investment on a product to complain and just be a lemming and accept?

Kind of a slippery slope you are advocating. Well, the "consumer" can do is complain with their wallet and stop buying the product which will kill the franchise.

Bronzewolf wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Bronzewolf wrote:"HA! This is bad comedy!"

Transformers has had robots holding hands and hugging since G1. Since Elita 1 and the femmbots. Since Powerglide's girlfriend. Since Seaspray's girlfriend.
Oh, unless, perhaps, it's the same sex couples people specifically have a problem with. Yes, in a series about autonomous robots. That don't even have organic genders to begin with. Why should it matter? It's a much more accepting world, with increased representation of sexualities, genders, races, and religion in ALL forms of media. Get used to it, because that's all any media is going to be for the rest of time. Complaining about politics in a story based around a war between two races of a species is a redundant and fruitless battle.

I'm sure that will get me all sorts of comments, but *shrug*

One of the main reasons I'm glad it's ending is so I can pick up on page 1. Be with the new continuity from the beginning, and not have a 13 year backlog staring me down. I look forward to seeing where it goes from here,

So you don't want the consumer, who has some purchasing investment on a product to complain and just be a lemming and accept?

Kind of a slippery slope you are advocating. Well, the "consumer" can do is complain with their wallet and stop buying the product which will kill the franchise.

...that isn't really a genuine counterpoint to anything I said. You do understand how hypocritical you're being when complaining, correct? War. Is. Political. There is not a single part of any organized war that isn't political. Unless, again, the complaint is specifically about the inclusion of LGBTQ characters?

fenrir72 wrote:Are ABCDEFG issues sacred cows that'd can't be "criticized?

fenrir72 wrote:That is a slippery slope. Are ABCDEFG issues sacred cows that'd can't be "criticized?

And again about "change". Hb did try( some say cynical one at that) back in 1986 when they tried to "change" a character by killing Optimus Prime. See where it got them. Not all change is good. Especially a cash cow that keeps on giving like the character Optimus. SW was just like that, an unlimited cash cow/ golden goose until............