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Va'al wrote:As I said, I was not claiming yours was an attack, just making sure we knew where we all stand.


As for the rest:

- sex is not gender
- male and female are not the only genders
- IDWverse has gender, since 2008.

And I will not let this discussion derail again. If you, or anyone else, would like to debate gender politics in Transformers, please use one of the existing threads, such as this one. Thank you.

Ok, let me get this straight. You get to rebut comments that you do not like, make sure you get the final word, and then delete any other comments that you deem "derailing", yet it was you who derailed the thread by elaborating on my post with a bunch of nonsense that had nothing to do with the original topic? All the while chastising me for "derailing"?

Real nice Va'al. I thought this was a equal grounds discussion. I guess I was wrong, unless you are a Mod or staff member.

shockblast2 wrote:

Va'al wrote:As I said, I was not claiming yours was an attack, just making sure we knew where we all stand.


As for the rest:

- sex is not gender
- male and female are not the only genders
- IDWverse has gender, since 2008.

And I will not let this discussion derail again. If you, or anyone else, would like to debate gender politics in Transformers, please use one of the existing threads, such as this one. Thank you.

Ok, let me get this straight. You get to rebut comments that you do not like, make sure you get the final word, and then delete any other comments that you deem "derailing", yet it was you who derailed the thread by elaborating on my post with a bunch of nonsense that had nothing to do with the original topic? All the while chastising me for "derailing"?

Real nice Va'al. I thought this was a equal grounds discussion. I guess I was wrong, unless you are a Mod or staff member.

I moved the post to this thread, as indicated in the Edit of the post you just quoted, and replied to you there. I do not delete comments.

Va'al wrote:

Va'al wrote:

shockblast2 wrote:

Va'al wrote:As I said, I was not claiming yours was an attack, just making sure we knew where we all stand.


As for the rest:

- sex is not gender
- male and female are not the only genders
- IDWverse has gender, since 2008.

And I will not let this discussion derail again. If you, or anyone else, would like to debate gender politics in Transformers, please use one of the existing threads, such as this one. Thank you.

Ok, let me get this straight. You get to rebut comments that you do not like, make sure you get the final word, and then delete any other comments that you deem "derailing", yet it was you who derailed the thread by elaborating on my post with a bunch of nonsense that had nothing to do with the original topic? All the while chastising me for "derailing"?

Real nice Va'al. I thought this was a equal grounds discussion. I guess I was wrong, unless you are a Mod or staff member.

I moved the post to this thread, as indicated in the Edit of the post you just quoted, and replied to you there. I do not delete comments.

Ok, that is good to know. I didn't really want to discuss gender/sex of Transformers as I do not feel that it is a debatable topic in my opinion. But, for those on the fence, it is good to know there is a forum for it.

And thanks for not being a pr*ck. I don't care what Sabre says about you, you are ok in my book.

The Mistress looks pretty awesome, if somewhat depressed.

Bugger me I need to catch up with the IDW comics.

robotmel wrote:

Va'al wrote:

Shhh don't post that Dg will think he's free to talk about shera here!

Delta Magnus wrote:The Mistress looks pretty awesome, if somewhat depressed.

Bugger me I need to catch up with the IDW comics.

Ta-daaaan: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... ers/32182/

shockblast2 wrote: I don't care what Sabre says about you, you are ok in my book.

Sabrblade, why..?

Va'al wrote:

Delta Magnus wrote:The Mistress looks pretty awesome, if somewhat depressed.

Bugger me I need to catch up with the IDW comics.

Ta-daaaan: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... ers/32182/

I actually already have a Comixology account, but thank you anyway!

Va'al wrote:

shockblast2 wrote: I don't care what Sabre says about you, you are ok in my book.

Sabrblade, why..?

LOL....just kidding Sabre, if you are reading this.


Whats with all the AB promos in your messages Va'al? Trying to get the word out about the new aerialbot?

It's because Alpha Bravo is awesome. Nothing else is needed.

ZeroWolf wrote:It's because Alpha Bravo is awesome. Nothing else is needed.

I agree. As a matter of fact, I hope there is a new entry into every new Combiner in the series. Keeps it interesting and gives the IDW distinctive differences between it and all other former lines.

Optimizzy wrote:I didnt read every comment before this, so someone else may have touched on it:

Why do we assume that since she is a religious leader that that means she has some dark secret are is secretly evil?

Maybe she is *gasp* exactly what she says she is? Religions don't make people do bad things. Bad people use religion to justify their acts. Even if there was no religion, there would still be bad things, just different justifications.

In MTMTE storyline that showed us Star Saber, he was to represent one of the three pillars of society that has gone wrong, namely religion. Law and Medicine were also represented in an equally negative fashion.

If this new character turns out to be a bad guy, or even a negatively presented character, it will be a rather dull addition. I mean, we've seen that before, and in a far more engaging aspect.

//2 cents.

I think the friendly quarrels between Ratchet and Drift, and Drift's repeated heroism, have represented the potential for religion's positive influence in the comics. Cyclonus in his own way has as well; he's not a nice guy, but it's unrelated to his spirituality. Rodimus is spiritual/religious as well, but seems to struggle with how seriously to actually take it, quoting the most popular line repeatedly with little regard for appropriateness, more because it's associated with a person he hero-worships than a deity he is devoted to, which I think is a reflection of a fairly common approach to religion, but if anything is more a negative comment on the individual rather than the religion. So far for really negative depictions of religion, we have:

Bludgeon's cult devoted to Thunderwing and Pretender technology (Stormbringer) - which was all of like, five guys, so I don't think it really casts any aspersions towards organized religion.

Star Saber's fanaticism (MtMtE) - Which entailed trying, and failing, to corrupt a long-standing, primarily pacifistic organized religion, only to end up locking up or killing most of the members of said religion when they refused to follow his genocidal extremist interpretation of it. This straightforwardly subverts the trope of the mass-murdering fanatical religion.

The Functionist Government's take on Primalism (MtMtE) - Which uses Primus or the Adaptus aspect of Primus to justify a caste system based on alternate modes, which I don't see as a comment on religion, so much as a comment on governments or politicians co-opting religious ideas to justify systemic inequality.

The Way of Flame (Windblade) - Which we're treating suspiciously in large part because it's the only religion (supposedly) on Caminus. One assumes that makes it a state-sponsored and enforced religion, but not necessarily. Scott's repeatedly stated their planet is in bad shape, and needs help, so it seems unlikely they're about to go on a crusade. Also, none of the three caminans we've met so far are exactly shoving their religion down people's throats.

I think a lot of the tension is probably going to come from the way their beliefs challenge some assumptions made by the Cybertronians, who tend to be primarily atheistic (evolutionary engineering), monotheistic (worshiping Primus), or Pantheistic (worshiping the Guiding Hand, aspects of Primus). They don't tend anymore to worship members of the original thirteen, who seem to be remembered more like demigods or god-kings of prehistory. So far they have made no mention of Solus when they do talk about the original 13 Primes - a curious omission - and given the association of the other Primes with Cybertron's equivalent of the Hyborean age, it seems like many bots would be unhappy with someone coming around who still worships one of the 13. A more passive source of conflict may come from the Mistress of Flame potentially resisting the help offered by Cybertron when it does come - from her perspective, she may be unhappy accepting help from anyone she perceives to be a cultural descendant of Megatronus Prime, the guy that betrayed and murdered (or attempted to do so) their ancestor. Starscream, as a former Decepticon, arguably fits that bill.

Va'al wrote:

ThatOneMoose wrote:

Va'al wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:There's no way to explain it without spoilers. Buuuuuuuut because he's not really a major character and dosen't matter, Slingshot dies horribly near the end of the first run of Robots in disguise, before Dark Cybertron. Alpha Bravo takes the mantle left behind by him.

Also, he's totally the coolest. Like, for real.

I knew that Slingshot died, just wondering what makes him so cool. Is it just the fact that he stepped up to take Slingshot's place?

Mostly because reasons. Personally, I adore how it irritates certain parts of the fandom by showing up on *one* panel of *one* issue, and having a toy that might in fact not be a replacement but a hint at a later team and combiner.

Alpha Bravo - because you're worth it.

This is also their (the A/B supporters) way of telling the Drift fans to go suck a drive-shaft. Since it's not exactly proper to post a giant middle finger with a banner saying "DRIFT SUX!" all front and center on one of these pages, this is what they are resorting to to irritate the Drift (and to a smaller degree, Windblade) fans. It's actually quite petty and immature but it's about what I've come to expect recently. The only thing it's actually managed to really accomplish is to make me hate Alpha-Bravo with a burning passion whereas before I could have cared less about the character. It'll be worth wasting $14.00 to buy the figure just to shove an M-80 up his plastic ass and blow him to pieces. I sincerely hope Superion is the first major casualty in the CW series just to spite the guys making entirely too much fuss over this new character.


Now as for the events revolving around Caminus, I'm glad to see that there is something entirely different to shake things up for once. I'm getting a bit tired over how much stuff seems to keep circling back around to Earth and Shockwaves or some previous Primes plans or past exploits. Thousands of other planets out there and stuff keeps centering around THIS piddly rock?? Yeah, I'm not buying that one bit. So thank you IDW for shifting the focus and introducing topics that are guaranteed to piss off the stuffy G1-ers.

You sound cranky, need some help? Alpha Bravo can lend a hand.

I don't know why, but there's one other thing the mistress of flame is reminding of, and im fairly sure the character and NPC won't share any similarities. Anyone ever play Planescape table top "back in the day"?

New planets aren't that abundant in Transformers because it is a lot of work to create them in detail and they might not be popular with the fans.

snavej wrote:New planets aren't that abundant in Transformers because it is a lot of work to create them in detail and they might not be popular with the fans.

What do you mean by that? Could you explain your point further?

We're going to be seeing more about Caminus soon. It makes a change from the usual few planets featured in the stories.

snavej wrote:We're going to be seeing more about Caminus soon. It makes a change from the usual few planets featured in the stories.

Yes, I agree - but I am confused as to why it might not work with fans, or how it has fewer Transformers on it. Is this a worry you have, or are you concerned it might not live up to promised world-building?

It is hard to predict readers' reactions to newly created worlds. It is a matter of personal taste.

snavej wrote:It is hard to predict readers' reactions to newly created worlds. It is a matter of personal taste.

I feel we're going in circles here.

What's your personal thought on this development?

Some planets are too boring to hold one's interest. A few planets are quite 'wacky', which may be a turn-off for some. (Junkion?) Some planets are portrayed as being ridiculously brutal, with far too many mortal dangers (to inject drama into the story). An interesting planet needs a lot of interesting features, developed in depth, with plenty of interactions between features. 'Features' here include all living and non-living things.

And what about Caminus, from the little we know so far?

snavej wrote:Some planets are too boring to hold one's interest. A few planets are quite 'wacky', which may be a turn-off for some. (Junkion?) Some planets are portrayed as being ridiculously brutal, with far too many mortal dangers (to inject drama into the story). An interesting planet needs a lot of interesting features, developed in depth, with plenty of interactions between features. 'Features' here include all living and non-living things.

But science fiction authors have such a wonderful reputation for mixing things up! On the semi-realistic side, there are gas planets and planets covered entirely in ice, with the brilliant addition of a earth-like atmospheres.

On the really creative side, there are:
Planets that are covered entirely in desert (thrilling!)
Planets covered entirely in ocean (which if you think about it, is really just a wet desert)
Planets covered entirely in forest (even the polar caps; not sure how that works)
Planets covered entirely in jungle (which is completely different from forest)
Planets covered entirely in swamp (a whole other thing altogether)
Planets covered entirely in city (at least, we assume there's a planet down there somewhere)
Planets covered entirely in garbage (because the people on the city planet have to dump it somewhere)
Planets covered entirely in inorganic machines (which actually has a lot of variation in premise)
Planets covered entirely in incredibly powerful and hostile fauna and flora (what the Empire of WH40K straightforwardly calls 'Death Planets'.)

So, yeah, the single biosphere planet tends to be the standard, and leaves one with the impression that Earth is the most interesting planet in the universe (we don't always drink beer, but when we do...). Honorable mention for falling outside that category are the 'wacky' planets - Dyson spheres, planets with time differentials, planets with inconsistent gravity, tidal-locked planets, etc., but, realistic or not, I agree that a 'good' planet should be less homogeneous than what we typically see, with varied ecosystems, cultures, and beliefs, and I'll admit that Caminus having a single religion doesn't bode well in that sense.

Plus, Cybertron itself is pretty interesting right now - it was their home for millions of years, but now it's essentially a frontier world, with a single settlement and a lot of unexplored wilderness. Hopefully that doesn't get forgotten, because I think that story - reclaiming Cybertron - could fill volumes.