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The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

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The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Towline » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:13 pm

Hello Seibertroniters!
After watching a documentary on Bronies and listening to the twin cast podcast.
I have a question I like to ask this website.
How come female "Transformers" fans have an easier time with not getting publicly heckled then male "My Little Pony" fans?
We live in an interesting time in pop culture when robots have become more gender neutral then horses.

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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Shadowman » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:12 pm

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Because female Transformers fans don't get nearly as creepy as bronies can get.

I've seen things. Horrible things. Things that will haunt me to the end of my days...

EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:33 am

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Shadowman wrote:EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.


This, so this. :APPLAUSE:

Well, we do have some "prejudices" towards female fans, but it's all in good humor:

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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby JetOptimus23 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:18 am

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Bronies are a whole nother can of worms. They've basically taken over the show and made the fanbase horribly unsafe for MLP's actual audience. Female TFans are just that; fans of the Transformers franchise who also happen to be female.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby babylon queen » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:29 pm

Can you have gender neutral toys?
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby ScoutBumblebee » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:02 pm

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babylon queen wrote:Can you have gender neutral toys?


Definitely! Most animals class as gender neutral, many books, landscape type stuff, garden type stuff, etc. It's when you get into action figures and the like that people throw gender into it.

Honestly, I believe that gender basing comes down purely to marketing and the power of the almighty dollar. If a company is going to market a toy, they need a target audience. They look at the MOST likely target audience. If the bulk of interested kids/people will be boys, they will aggressively market it to boys. Vice versa with girls. If there's a small percentage of folks who buy despite not being in the target audience, ok. But ultimately you get the best response from targeting those most likely to take interest.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby fenrir72 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:07 am

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Shadowman wrote:EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.


This, so this. :APPLAUSE:

Well, we do have some "prejudices" towards female fans, but it's all in good humor:

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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby cybercat » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:10 pm

Shadowman wrote:
EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.


Hmmm, depends what you mean by 'socially acceptable'? I get less flak from cashiers (but they always ask if it's for my son....whom I don't have), sure, than a guy buying a pony might, but I have to say I've run into a lot of...guff (for lack of a better word) from male TF fans. You know, the ones who insist when I'm looking at toys that I must be looking for Arcee or of course did I hear? DID I HEAR?!?! Transformers has a WHOLE SERIES WRITTEN AND DRAWN BY WOMEN ABOUT A FEMALE CHARACTER!!!

Yeah, I heard. Sorry, not my bag. I've read TF comics at least since Dreamwave. I ain't here for the 'girls'. I resent the intrusion of binary gender INTO Transformers.

I've also run into the deep seated belief that female in fandom are only into shipping and are SJW tumblrinas. I hesitate to say the word here and I won't go any further bc it's a family-forum, but 'slash'--say that word around male fans and you get the dismissive disgusted eyeroll.

SO, yeah, I can maybe BUY a toy with less drama from clerks, but I still get judged by male fans as skanking and skeeving up their robots.

CC, slashing up ur robits?
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Shadowman » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:43 am

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cybercat wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.


Hmmm, depends what you mean by 'socially acceptable'? I get less flak from cashiers (but they always ask if it's for my son....whom I don't have), sure, than a guy buying a pony might, but I have to say I've run into a lot of...guff (for lack of a better word) from male TF fans. You know, the ones who insist when I'm looking at toys that I must be looking for Arcee or of course did I hear? DID I HEAR?!?! Transformers has a WHOLE SERIES WRITTEN AND DRAWN BY WOMEN ABOUT A FEMALE CHARACTER!!!

Yeah, I heard. Sorry, not my bag. I've read TF comics at least since Dreamwave. I ain't here for the 'girls'. I resent the intrusion of binary gender INTO Transformers.

I've also run into the deep seated belief that female in fandom are only into shipping and are SJW tumblrinas. I hesitate to say the word here and I won't go any further bc it's a family-forum, but 'slash'--say that word around male fans and you get the dismissive disgusted eyeroll.

SO, yeah, I can maybe BUY a toy with less drama from clerks, but I still get judged by male fans as skanking and skeeving up their robots.

CC, slashing up ur robits?


Now take a moment to consider the primary demographic for Transformers, and you'll understand why such an immature reaction is so commonplace...
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby CliffjumperXD » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:53 am

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cybercat wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Hmmm, depends what you mean by 'socially acceptable'? I get less flak from cashiers (but they always ask if it's for my son....whom I don't have), sure, than a guy buying a pony might, but I have to say I've run into a lot of...guff (for lack of a better word) from male TF fans. You know, the ones who insist when I'm looking at toys that I must be looking for Arcee or of course did I hear? DID I HEAR?!?! Transformers has a WHOLE SERIES WRITTEN AND DRAWN BY WOMEN ABOUT A FEMALE CHARACTER!!!

Yeah, I heard. Sorry, not my bag. I've read TF comics at least since Dreamwave. I ain't here for the 'girls'. I resent the intrusion of binary gender INTO Transformers.


Can't say I've had any flak from anyone. Now, I do get glances from men when I'm browsing Transformers in the store. Maybe they think I'm lost :grin:

I've also been questioned about my view on the female characters. Apparently, I should like them but I don't really like any :D All of my favorite TFs are not of the female variety. This apparently can irk some people of both genders. Who I like shouldn't be important to anyone but me. I like the subject matter that Transformers revolves around which is why I'm here.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby CelticDragon » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:29 pm

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Interesting discussion. I think Shadowman has a point but it's one that back when I was young (in the Dark Ages when dinosaurs still roamed) didn't seem like such a marked delineation (it's possible that Old Timer's disease has colored my memories). Commercials on TV were marketed to one gender or the other but toy stores didn't have aisles devoted to each gender. I also don't remember back then that it was as much a deal for girls to have "boy" toys, like action figures. In fact, the first time I saw a Transformer toy was at my friend's house (a girl). Her mother had a Transformer and we were all sitting around treating it like the latest puzzle trying to transform it.

The reverse trend was not as well-accepted (and still is not). My brother had She-ra's castle to go with his whole He-man collection but told all his friends it belonged to me to avoid the embarrassment of having a pink castle and girly-doll figure! My friends knew darn well I wouldn't have been caught dead with it!! :D

I'm also old enough to not give a crap what someone in a store thinks about me buying a Transformer, or anything else for that matter. >:oP

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only woman who really doesn't care for the female Transformers, stories or figures. Just not my cuppa.

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Shadowman wrote:
cybercat wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby ctrlFrequency » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:19 pm

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CelticDragon wrote:I'm glad to hear I'm not the only woman who really doesn't care for the female Transformers, stories or figures. Just not my cuppa.

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Shadowman wrote:
cybercat wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
EDIT: It's also an age-old double standard: Girls being into boy's stuff is far more socially acceptable than boys being into girl's stuff.


As another (way too long time)female who's a transformers fan... I also have add my voice to the not caring for the female characters!

Well, actually, Nautica has been the first one I liked. All the others seemed to be trying too hard for one thing or another. The original set of fembots seemed too girly... they were so not representative of anything in my life. I couldn't connect. Windblade and the latest Chromia seems like they're trying to hard to prove.. everything. Nautica just is being herself.

I don't get much funny looks when I'm going through the Transformers toys in the store, at least that I've noticed (I've had guys walking back and forth behind me like they wanted to say something but I'm really great at tuning everyone out. I get stared at enough no matter what to really notice). But the looks I get when my 6 year old son carries around a baby doll is pretty crazy. However, the older generations (in their 60's and 70's) seem to have less problem with it.
However that has always been women, I don't know how men react (none have ever said anything). I would imagine badly because of that gender stereotype going on. Men don't really like seeing boys with 'girls' toys.

We try to have a very gender neutral house. But every day I'm having to undo the damage done to my 6 year old when he comes back from school. I'm constantly hearing about girl things and boys things and how he can't do something because it's a girl things or a girl toy (and don't take him down the make up aisle at the store, he starts complaining about girly things).
My husband had to bite his tongue about the baby doll, but to his credit he never said anything, just muttered "gender neutral... gender neutral..." under his breath. Product of his environment...
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Dead Metal » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:53 pm

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Reason the older generations don't care about boys playing with dolls is because when they were young they too played with dolls. Dolls used to be a gender neutral toy. It'S just when they decided to make dolls based on army men and trying to differentiate them from other dolls as a marketing ploy, by calling them action figures that people started to bring gender into it.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby cybercat » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:02 pm

Shadowman wrote:Now take a moment to consider the primary demographic for Transformers, and you'll understand why such an immature reaction is so commonplace...


Shadowman, I wish I could refute this. The readership/viewership is definitely not all male, but yeah, the demographic the canon creators have in mind is clearly the Traditional White Male Comics Nerd. Even the way Roberts takes the piss out of the female-oriented Tumblr fandom with his gibes and digs just reinforces that his stories aren't 'for them'.

CC, but at least it's not as bad as Marvel?
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Shadowman » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:23 pm

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cybercat wrote:Traditional White Male Comics Nerd.


Ah, no. Young boys. A creature not known for their tolerance of the other genders. And most of them retain some manner of childishness into adulthood.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Dr Va'al » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:08 am

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cybercat wrote:Even the way Roberts takes the piss out of the female-oriented Tumblr fandom with his gibes and digs just reinforces that his stories aren't 'for them'.


Really?

At Auto Assembly, TFCon and where he lives, he has the longest queues, mostly women. He was even brought a cake in the shape of the Lost Light by one of the Tumblr fans. And Sarah Stone was found via Tumblr. As was Kotteri, of the January variant covers.

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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Black Hat » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:31 pm

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Re: IDW Transformers: Combiner Wars - The Transformers and Windblade

Postby shockblast2 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:06 am

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Va'al wrote:As I said, I was not claiming yours was an attack, just making sure we knew where we all stand. :D


As for the rest:

- sex is not gender
- male and female are not the only genders
- IDWverse has gender, since 2008.

And I will not let this discussion derail again. If you, or anyone else, would like to debate gender politics in Transformers, please use one of the existing threads, such as this one. Thank you.


I never said sex was gender. Why is that relevant to the fact that Transformers are using the female sex in such a silly manner to supposedly attract more female fans? So, what other genders are there if male and female are not the only ones? That is a new one to me......

IDW does not have gender, because to be considered a gender, one must lean towards MALE and FEMALE sex distinction. And males and females are different based on sexual designation, which is used to breed, and transformers DO NOT breed.

As far as derailing, I didn't bring up the topic. You did. I made a comment based on the interview in the news story. You invited the derailment by engaging my comment rather than just reading it and moving on.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Dr Va'al » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:18 am

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Post above was moved from this thread.


My reply:


Gender difference is not sex difference, and even those terms are contested. You seem to be using the two interchangeably. In a 'traditional' sense, gender is based on societal constructs, and contains an element of self-identification and performativity. Sex, on the other hand, is determined by the biological primary and secondary sexual organs. However, this makes it too much of a nature/nurture clear cut, and I disagree with that, as does a lot of the literature on behavioural genetics.

Examples of genders and sexes other than male/female: intersex, third gender, queer. Compare recent developments in India, where hijra has been legally recognised as a third gender category.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Shadowman » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:53 pm

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I'm almost totally certain "gender" is based on whether you have a penis or a vagina. That's really the only qualification.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Rodimus Prime » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:00 pm

Shadowman wrote:I'm almost totally certain "gender" is based on whether you have a penis or a vagina. That's really the only qualification.
I always thought that's what "sex" was. "Gender" is how a person identifies itself sexually. Which is why there are supposedly more than 2 genders now.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Dr Va'al » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:02 pm

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Shadowman wrote:I'm almost totally certain "gender" is based on whether you have a penis or a vagina. That's really the only qualification.


Nope.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Optimizzy » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:08 pm

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Sex is biological and gender is sociological.

Which means it is malleable and subject to change depending on the society.
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Dr Va'al » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:13 pm

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Optimizzy wrote:Sex is biological and gender is sociological.

Which means it is malleable and subject to change depending on the society.


That's a starting point for the discussion to work on yes, but what I was arguing above, albeit briefly, is that even that distinction can be further troubled by recognising how 'biology' is also modified by societal and 'nurture' factors, therefore rendering the sex/gender binary a lot more problematic to define.

Cf. Diane Halpern (2000), Aaron Sell (2009) or this Mills pop-piece: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... o-confused
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Re: The gender politics of hasbro fandom.

Postby Shadowman » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:13 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
Shadowman wrote:I'm almost totally certain "gender" is based on whether you have a penis or a vagina. That's really the only qualification.
I always thought that's what "sex" was. "Gender" is how a person identifies itself sexually. Which is why there are supposedly more than 2 genders now.


I always thought the two were synonyms. But then you get a bunch of people who want the terms redefined because they got a sex change and don't feel like the standard definitions fit them.
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