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@kev777, thank you for that feedback. I am looking forward to getting mine.

SGM

I'm hoping for a Sunstorm.

william-james88 wrote:

frogbat wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Yup, same price just exclusive to some retailers. And none of the selects come packaged with extras.

Cheers was thinking of the new Skywarp battle pack set - for some reason thought it fell in with the select imprint.

Its beyond confusing. But the main distinction is that the ones in the actual siege line are meant to accompany that line (like add more characters that go with the others released) while this selects line is giving fans decos that they probably would never get in a main line, something more along the lines of the Transformers Club and toys not meant to be in the same continuity/story as the actual War for Cybertron Trilogy.

Specifically the Selects line feels a lot like the Subscription Service. If that were still around this is exactly the type of figures we would have gotten (except for Star Convoy) and they even come in the same type of cardboard boxes (but without the printing and foam inserts). The only major difference is the price and the ease of getting them.

Emerje

bvzxa wrote:

This looks great.

I'm thinking Ricochet will end up on Inferno for a combiner so that the combined mode, which sort of looks like Artfire, will have his other Targetmaster bro as his limb.

Agamemnon wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Agamemnon - Thanks for the pics. This does have me bewildered, but I appreciate the effort. Could you by chance weigh them both again (PotP Jazz & Ricochet) without their Prime Armor & weapon? No pics necessary, I trust you... . Perhaps it just seems they are made of flimsier plastic, which is giving me the illusion of being lighter?

At any rate, this is not my first experience with this. I was also really into Transformers Kreon minifigs, I pretty much got them all (except for Warriors series 3 and a few exclusives only released in Asian markets). But I did notice some of the late-run figs that didn't get released in the U.S. (or at the very least showed up at Places like Marshalls & TJ Maxx), were made of flimsier plastic.

Sure!

Jazz 83g
Ricochet 84g

(And I did confirm that the HFGs are 1 gram apart, accounting for the other gram of difference.)

So, the Prime Armors are actually sturdier/more massive plastic pieces now? That's unexpected, lol!

Well, Ricochet needs to be able to have those armor piercing rounds bounce right off him and hit Decepticons, right?

Thank you, thanks you. Tip your robo-staff on your way out, please.

One thing to keep in mind is the resolution of the scale you used. If it only went to the nearest gram, then the figures may actually be closer to each other in weight than 1 gram. For example, Jazz's real weight could be 83.4 grams and the scale would just say 83. At the same time, Ricochet could actually be 83.6 grams and the scale would say just 84. Of course the opposite could also be true with Jazz being 82.5 and reading 83 and Ricochet being 84.4 and reading 84.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Agamemnon - Thanks for the pics. This does have me bewildered, but I appreciate the effort. Could you by chance weigh them both again (PotP Jazz & Ricochet) without their Prime Armor & weapon? No pics necessary, I trust you... . Perhaps it just seems they are made of flimsier plastic, which is giving me the illusion of being lighter?

At any rate, this is not my first experience with this. I was also really into Transformers Kreon minifigs, I pretty much got them all (except for Warriors series 3 and a few exclusives only released in Asian markets). But I did notice some of the late-run figs that didn't get released in the U.S. (or at the very least showed up at Places like Marshalls & TJ Maxx), were made of flimsier plastic.

Sure!

Jazz 83g
Ricochet 84g

(And I did confirm that the HFGs are 1 gram apart, accounting for the other gram of difference.)

So, the Prime Armors are actually sturdier/more massive plastic pieces now? That's unexpected, lol!

Well, Ricochet needs to be able to have those armor piercing rounds bounce right off him and hit Decepticons, right?

Thank you, thanks you. Tip your robo-staff on your way out, please.

One thing to keep in mind is the resolution of the scale you used. If it only went to the nearest gram, then the figures may actually be closer to each other in weight than 1 gram. For example, Jazz's real weight could be 83.4 grams and the scale would just say 83. At the same time, Ricochet could actually be 83.6 grams and the scale would say just 84. Of course the opposite could also be true with Jazz being 82.5 and reading 83 and Ricochet being 84.4 and reading 84.

Very true. I think the real take home message was that this defied some people's expectations in that, not only are Ricochet and Red Swoop no less massive than Jazz and Blue Swoop, they're actually marginally more so! Really, though, this means that Ricochet and Red Swoop are of comparable quality to the Deluxe Class releases in Power of the Primes, so Hasbro isn't taking any shortcuts with these "Selects" releases. The price has been inflated up to the new Deluxe Class price point ($19.99), but we're not getting products of "lesser" quality.

I appreciate those that are answering my questions out of sincerity, but I'm really not creative enough, nor do I have the time to fabricate stories. All I can say is that compared to my PotP Jazz, - Ricochet is a floppy, loose piece of junk, same goes for Red Swoop in comparison with PotP Swoop.

o.supreme wrote:I appreciate those that are answering my questions out of sincerity, but I'm really not creative enough, nor do I have the time to fabricate stories. All I can say is that compared to my PotP Jazz, - Ricochet is a floppy, loose piece of junk, same goes for Red Swoop in comparison with PotP Swoop.

Could it be "mold degredation?" That was something people used to bandy about a LOT in years past, especially when older molds were reissued. I wouldn't think PotP Jazz or Swoop should be that degraded yet, but you never know.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I appreciate those that are answering my questions out of sincerity, but I'm really not creative enough, nor do I have the time to fabricate stories. All I can say is that compared to my PotP Jazz, - Ricochet is a floppy, loose piece of junk, same goes for Red Swoop in comparison with PotP Swoop.

Could it be "mold degredation?" That was something people used to bandy about a LOT in years past, especially when older molds were reissued. I wouldn't think PotP Jazz or Swoop should be that degraded yet, but you never know.

Mold degradation would mean everyone has the problem but it seems it's just O.Supreme, which sucks. My recommendation is to deal with the seller and exchange them for new copies while you still can.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I appreciate those that are answering my questions out of sincerity, but I'm really not creative enough, nor do I have the time to fabricate stories. All I can say is that compared to my PotP Jazz, - Ricochet is a floppy, loose piece of junk, same goes for Red Swoop in comparison with PotP Swoop.

Could it be "mold degredation?" That was something people used to bandy about a LOT in years past, especially when older molds were reissued. I wouldn't think PotP Jazz or Swoop should be that degraded yet, but you never know.

That soon? I wouldn't think so. We eliminated total amount of plastic as a possibility, another one I can think of is that the joints somehow are too smooth i.e. have nothing to properly grip on for friction.

Either way, I'd wait until more reviews and reports come in before drawing conclusions. It could very well be a one-off...

:EDIT:... and it isn't it, it's YMMV now:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I appreciate those that are answering my questions out of sincerity, but I'm really not creative enough, nor do I have the time to fabricate stories. All I can say is that compared to my PotP Jazz, - Ricochet is a floppy, loose piece of junk, same goes for Red Swoop in comparison with PotP Swoop.

Could it be "mold degredation?" That was something people used to bandy about a LOT in years past, especially when older molds were reissued. I wouldn't think PotP Jazz or Swoop should be that degraded yet, but you never know.

That soon? I wouldn't think so. We eliminated total amount of plastic as a possibility, another one I can think of is that the joints somehow are too smooth i.e. have nothing to properly grip on for friction.

Either way, I'd wait until more reviews and reports come in before drawing conclusions. It could very well be a one-off...

:EDIT:... and it isn't it, it's YMMV now:

Multiple reports on reddit report the same loose and floppy joints for both Red Swoop and Ricochet, so I don't believe this is a one-off

Emerje wrote:Specifically the Selects line feels a lot like the Subscription Service. If that were still around this is exactly the type of figures we would have gotten (except for Star Convoy) and they even come in the same type of cardboard boxes (but without the printing and foam inserts). The only major difference is the price and the ease of getting them.

Emerje

On the surface maybe, but not in the details. The club's Sub Service stuff was much nicer than the retail product. Almost always had way more paint and often included additional accessories.

On some of the other comments in the thread, my red Swoop is a little loose in places but not to any serious detriment. Ricochet is pretty tight all around.

My biggest issue with red Swoop is the gray plastic. It doesn't match the other PotP Dinobots at all and I don't know how they messed up something so obvious.

Ricochet is an inferior representation of the character:
But hey, if I need a random combiner limb it'll come in handy so I guess it has that going for it. Also, it was 1/4 the price of the United one. Kinda. United version had a badass book included.

^It's definitely a conundrum. I did manage to get all the TFCC Exclusives that were made from Combiner Wars molds, and I can definitely say, there was never any QC issue with them. I wasn't pleased with how much I had to pay for them, but I was pleased with what I got.

Would I wish to go back to that system...probably not. And Honestly, If Ricochet & Red Swoop had just been standard releases one could purchase at Target or Walmart, I probably wouldn't be so upset, I'll just take WJ suggestion and try to exchange them.

I know a lot of fans are happy about brand unification, but I can't help but think of what was lost. Pretty much all my Unite Warriors are better quality than any of their CW counterparts. One rare recent example would be Golden Lagoon Starscream - modeled after a PotP figure, released exclusively by however, and it looks and feels much better than most of the PotP line. Now while it wasn't as expensive as Club figures (but still more expensive nonetheless), it still had that superior quality look and feel. It's unfortunately because of Brand Unification, and the knowledge that standard SS, PP & Siege releases are the same from both TT & Hasbro, that I cant just get the TT releases, because now there is no reason to do so.

On the surface having to *not* pay 30% more to import a version of something very similar to sounds great. But it wasn't just different paint decos or accessories that drove fans to do this, its because they knew they were getting an overall better product generally speaking (with few exceptions). Instead of trying to raise the overall brand to TT level, they just lowered TT to Hasbro's, which is kind of sad.

I'm not conspiracy theorist...but this *might* explain the reason why the last few masterpiece figures have had quality issues despite them not even being offered in North America...

o.supreme wrote:I'm not conspiracy theorist...but this *might* explain the reason why the last few masterpiece figures have had quality issues despite them not even being offered in North America...

They are offered in North America, the MP line is also part of brand unification, starting with Cartoon Accurate prowl:

https://www.entertainmentearth.com/prod ... on/hse4006

But weren't all the toys made in the same factory anyway?

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I'm not conspiracy theorist...but this *might* explain the reason why the last few masterpiece figures have had quality issues despite them not even being offered in North America...

They are offered in North America, the MP line is also part of brand unification, starting with Cartoon Accurate prowl:

https://www.entertainmentearth.com/prod ... on/hse4006

Interesting, so is it basically just different packaging/lettering but each MP figure is released in both Japan & North America? If so, then, sadly, that bodes even worse for the reason why these most recent ones are having QC issues...

ZeroWolf wrote:But weren't all the toys made in the same factory anyway?

Yup, thus TakaraTomy toys are just as likely to be hit by errors as the Hasbro ones. The myth may stem from "the more you pay the more careful with it you become", statistical artifacts (1 country vs the rest of the world with absolute quantities instead of percentages), or it could very well be real with how different colors of plastic have different tolerances i.e. one big coincidence. Who knows?

ZeroWolf wrote:But weren't all the toys made in the same factory anyway?

Yep!

ZeroWolf wrote:But weren't all the toys made in the same factory anyway?

Yes, but until a couple of years ago, would have their production/assembly line run of their product several months later than Hasbro's. Often also with different packaging, accessories, and paint detailing, if not, something completely different.

Some have speculated that in the time difference between what was manufactured for and , QC issues could be found and fixed. But now, because of Brand Unification (meaning not only are the toys the same, but they are being produced at the same time), that QC issues have less time to be found, that would definitely explain the overall decline in quality for both & .

o.supreme wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:But weren't all the toys made in the same factory anyway?

Yes, but until a couple of years ago, would have their production/assembly line run of their product several months later than Hasbro's. Often also with different packaging, accessories, and paint detailing, if not, something completely different.

Some have speculated that in the time difference between what was manufactured for and , QC issues could be found and fixed. But now, because of Brand Unification (meaning not only are the toys the same, but they are being produced at the same time), that QC issues have less time to be found, that would definitely explain the overall decline in quality for both & .

Fixing may not be able to be scheduled in, depending on when it's found and the type of problem. Missassemblies can be fixed rather swiftly (Cybertron Bendy Prime redeco fixed with a running change), but strengthening plastic joints is a bit of a different beast.

o.supreme wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I'm not conspiracy theorist...but this *might* explain the reason why the last few masterpiece figures have had quality issues despite them not even being offered in North America...

They are offered in North America, the MP line is also part of brand unification, starting with Cartoon Accurate prowl:

https://www.entertainmentearth.com/prod ... on/hse4006

Interesting, so is it basically just different packaging/lettering but each MP figure is released in both Japan & North America? If so, then, sadly, that bodes even worse for the reason why these most recent ones are having QC issues...

Here is the info on the North American releases
https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ses/42835/

o.supreme wrote:^It's definitely a conundrum. I did manage to get all the TFCC Exclusives that were made from Combiner Wars molds, and I can definitely say, there was never any QC issue with them. I wasn't pleased with how much I had to pay for them, but I was pleased with what I got.

The later stuff was mostly fine but they certainly had releases with their fair share of issues. The '07 Seekers with duplicate/mismatched launchers, '09 Counterpunch's tiny head, heck even my 2011 Minerva had malformed hips that didn't get enough plastic into the injection mold and I had to butcher an Arcee to finish her.

In other words, I'd also say it doesn't matter if it's Hasbro, Takara, Playskool, Fun Pub, 3H or whoever. Stuff happens!

ScottyP wrote: Ricochet is an inferior representation of the character:
But hey, if I need a random combiner limb it'll come in handy so I guess it has that going for it. Also, it was 1/4 the price of the United one. Kinda. United version had a badass book included.

The Chad Stepper vs the Virgin Ricochet
At least selects has a badass... box. Oh dear

o.supreme wrote:^It's definitely a conundrum. I did manage to get all the TFCC Exclusives that were made from Combiner Wars molds, and I can definitely say, there was never any QC issue with them. I wasn't pleased with how much I had to pay for them, but I was pleased with what I got.

Really? Because I definitely had some imperfections in mine, though the only one that really bugged me is Impactor being unable to hold anything in the weapon ports on his hands.

ScottyP wrote:But hey, if I need a random combiner limb it'll come in handy so I guess it has that going for it.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any pictures of what Elita-Infin1te looks like with Jazz and Ricochet as legs? Or for that matter, pics of either of these guys being used as limbs at all?

There might be a pic in my gallery... Let me check.