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Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:56 pm**

Tuned Agent wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Tuned Agent wrote: Figures aren't more complex now than they used to be.

This is false. Articulation and transformation steps have increased on average for the deluxes. This waspinator is a great example to that as he has more articulation than T30. No one was using the term "mini masterpiece " 5 years ago but they are now. Even Hasbro is.

Modern figures may devote a few more parts to articulation than before, but that doesn't mean they have a higher parts count overall. To use these Waspinators as an example again, Kingdom may use an extra part in each ankle (for ankle tilts) and an extra part in each shoulder and hip (for universal joints rather than ball joints), but it doesn't have T30's wing flapping mechanism (a difference of probably ~4 parts), transforming gun (an extra part), or multi-part lower legs that hide hollowness (which T30 has). All things considered, they probably work out to about the same parts count.

As for being "mini masterpieces", I've always understood that that term is used in reference to current toyline's attention to accuracy compared to years past, not because they use more transformation steps to achieve that accuracy (which I don't think they do). People's use of the term is subjective though, so I could be wrong.

william-james88 wrote:Also, regarding smaller toys, come on guys, WFC Optimus is the exact same height as Classics Optimus from 2006, which is the scale all CHUG collections have been trying to adhere to since the begining.

Nevermind that Classics Optimus was on the short side for a voyager at the time, while WFC Optimus is pushing the upper limit of modern voyager size. And that doesn't even compare the two by weight.

But if we're comparing modern figures with figures from 15 years ago, than compare the average WFC deluxe with the average Classics deluxe, or the average SS deluxe with the average '07 movie deluxe, and the size difference is obvious.

Some figures are more complex, some aren't. There are some vintage transforming figures, not necessarily Transformers that have intricate and involved conversions that haven't been replicated by any company today.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:21 pm**

Nuclearxpotato wrote:
Tuned Agent wrote:As for the scale argument, that would make sense if Kingdom Waspinator were in scale with the other BW figures, but he's not. Unless my understanding of BW scale is wildly off, he should be about the same size as Cheetor and Blackarachnia, but (using Mirage as a measuring stick), he's notably shorter, just like Skorponok, invalidating any argument that scale is the main reason for making Waspinator smaller.

I'm just going to say there's no stable scale in BW and that TFW scale chart is wrong 50% of the time. In CGI, scaling and forced perspective are tools used to get the visuals you want. A famous example involves the scene from Toy Story where Andy throws himself onto his bed, unknown to the viewer Andy's model is actually hovering well above the bed.
I believe Hasbro has an internal scale they're basing this off of, but it really just depends on the designer's idea of the character.

Honestly I hate the whole scale argument.

People definitely can get too worked up over scale, but... it really strikes me as odd to say that the scale chart constructed via looking at basically every frame from the show where a reasonable size comparison can be made, and compiling and comparing those to get as consistent of a set of size comparisons as possible (with all of their work done visible in the 30+ pages of the thread) is "wrong 50% of the time".

Yes, there were moments where scale/sizing was messed around with on the part of the animators for dramatic effect, but 1) those models also would've all most likely had a default size they loaded in at that would then have to be explicitly changed, meaning it would've been more effort to make them constantly be at differing sizes than to generally be consistent until specific moments where it would be particularly useful for dramatic effect, and 2) the people who worked on the scale chart acknowledge those moments, and compare them with all the other shots in the show where a size comparison can be reasonably drawn. This isn't like the G1 scale chart, where that was drawn at the outset and was used as a guideline for the animators that was frequently deviated from, this was compiled from looking at the end result show and seeing how scale was actually implemented in it.

I also think it important to note, as an aside, that every Beast Wars Masterpiece that has come out has matched up with the TFW BW scale chart very closely, only varying a pixel or two (with the scale chart sized so that 1 pixel = 1 mm, and using the 100s of mms heights of the MP figures). Meaning the unofficial scale chart project has managed to ger extremely close to whatever Mainframe internal unreleased scale chart Takara is using for the MPs.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:20 am**

Overcracker wrote:Its funny seeing everybody complain about the robot legs not being hidden, when the original had them dangling behind the wasp mode:

Transformers Beast Wars (10th Anniversary) Waspinator (Waspitas) (Reissue) Gallery

Those aren't bot legs, they're bug legs. I won't pretend they look good, but popping them out at the ankles to turn the knee into a bug foot is part of the transformation.

As for the debate about modern complexity, let's not discount the importance of ankle tilts which are on all WFC figures (and some SS) Deluxe and larger despite having nothing to do with the transformation in many cases. That means at least two extra parts added to the parts count of many figures over previous figures with straight legs. That alone is pretty huge and adds a lot to the complexity of the figures.

Emerje

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:45 am**

Emerje wrote:
Overcracker wrote:Its funny seeing everybody complain about the robot legs not being hidden, when the original had them dangling behind the wasp mode:

Transformers Beast Wars (10th Anniversary) Waspinator (Waspitas) (Reissue) Gallery

Those aren't bot legs, they're bug legs. I won't pretend they look good, but popping them out at the ankles to turn the knee into a bug foot is part of the transformation.

Emerje

Well yes, just like putting them underneath the wasp body is part of the transformation. The point is the solution isn’t worse than making the bug legs that don’t look like anything an actual wasp has.

The robot mode legs are still just dangling behind him, as opposed to just being tucked under the bug body.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:22 pm**

Very Odd... a Whole case of Kingdom Deluxe wave 3 Wingfinger has been spotted at a Walmart in Nebraska USA.

https://twitter.com/MajoraYT/status/1403466761874386951

I feel this is just an anomaly however, I'll still be keeping a look out. This is not the first time this has happened. I'm sure there are more recent examples, but I recall personally witnessing a whole case of CW Groove show up at a Walmart near me in 2016.

I'm not sure what causes these anomalies. Perhaps these were just leftover extra's from the production run, but one would think if they were shipped last, instead of first, they would show up much later in the year, rather than early?

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:34 pm**

o.supreme wrote:Very Odd... a Whole case of Kingdom Deluxe wave 3 Wingfinger has been spotted at a Walmart in Nebraska USA.

https://twitter.com/MajoraYT/status/1403466761874386951

I feel this is just an anomaly however, I'll still be keeping a look out. This is not the first time this has happened. I'm sure there are more recent examples, but I recall personally witnessing a whole case of CW Groove show up at a Walmart near me in 2016.

I'm not sure what causes these anomalies. Perhaps these were just leftover extra's from the production run, but one would think if they were shipped last, instead of first, they would show up much later in the year, rather than early?

I suspect it's actually an error, and it was meant for an online store or Pulse, as brick-and-mortar stores usually don't get solid cases (cases with multiples of only one figure).

Which Groove we talking here btw? The Deluxe was an exclusive, and those ship in solid cases by default.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:29 pm**

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:I suspect it's actually an error, and it was meant for an online store or Pulse, as brick-and-mortar stores usually don't get solid cases (cases with multiples of only one figure).

I remember this kind of thing happened a few years ago when a random Walmart somewhere got an entire case of TR Brainstorms meant for Walgreens

EDIT: Source

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:19 pm**

I found Galvatron today in central TX. The shoulders were not correct. I made a quick video showing how to fix them though:

https://youtu.be/0MFbzmItCTk

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:07 pm**

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
o.supreme wrote:Very Odd... a Whole case of Kingdom Deluxe wave 3 Wingfinger has been spotted at a Walmart in Nebraska USA.

https://twitter.com/MajoraYT/status/1403466761874386951

I feel this is just an anomaly however, I'll still be keeping a look out. This is not the first time this has happened. I'm sure there are more recent examples, but I recall personally witnessing a whole case of CW Groove show up at a Walmart near me in 2016.

I'm not sure what causes these anomalies. Perhaps these were just leftover extra's from the production run, but one would think if they were shipped last, instead of first, they would show up much later in the year, rather than early?

I suspect it's actually an error, and it was meant for an online store or Pulse, as brick-and-mortar stores usually don't get solid cases (cases with multiples of only one figure).

Which Groove we talking here btw? The Deluxe was an exclusive, and those ship in solid cases by default.

My Toysrus gets solid cases.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:24 pm**

We have some more wave 3 Transformers Kingdom sightings for you today. Firstly, the core class figures, both Soundwave and Dracodon have been found in the US in Illinois. We know this because Soundwave was then immediately sold on the secondary market (hence the image below). They were found at Target. If you want to find them too, these product numbers may be useful:
Soundwave EAN # 5010993769636
Dracodon EAN # 5010993774425

Walmart got some new wave 3 items as well, or should I say item (singular). Since a fan found a whole case of just Wingfinger. You can see those images (from Twitter) below as well.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:46 pm**

Oops, all Wingfingers!

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:15 am**

Wow! Easily the worst Transformers toy released in years & it gets a whole case to itself. And then they ship Netflix Soundwave 1 per case in a case of only 2 figures.

Just what I always wanted, a pelican skeleton. Hasbro really needs to lay off the drugs. :roll:

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:30 am**

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:Wow! Easily the worst Transformers toy released in years & it gets a whole case to itself. And then they ship Netflix Soundwave 1 per case in a case of only 2 figures.

Just what I always wanted, a pelican skeleton. Hasbro really needs to lay off the drugs.

You are one of the very few who appreciate the Fossilizers and what they are as a line of toys made for kids. Also its not even a pelican and far from the “worst in years”

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:46 am**

I'm looking forward that Core Soundwave. Look pretty dope!

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:52 am**

You know Nemesis, to a lot of people dino skeletons are cool :roll:

They're also a thematic way of modifying the Weaponizer concept.

I mainly popped in here to leave my thoughts on the "Battle across Time" multipacks. In my opinion, both are a case of "decent figure bundled in with dodgy figure", with the decent figures being Sideswipe (although I personally think the inclusion of the gun is more of an improvement the slight increase in matching to Sunstreaker) and Grimlock (because of general improvements of the Kingdom Dinobot mold vs. the original plus no GPS) and the dodgy figures being BWII Skywarp (looks okay, but he's in the same vein as Universe Drag Strip, Onslaught, and Silverbolt) and Mirage (a disgusting waste of plastic and engineering time; the retools were unnecessary because the unearthliness came from him being transparent, they don't really make him look more like the cartoon and are worse for accuracy wrt mold layout, and in fact the robot mode ends up looking less like the cartoon because the launcher can't be mounted in the right spot anymore!). And unlike what some people think about SS86 Hot Rod, Amazon's price for the the Sideswipe-Skywarp two-pack is well and truly a scam because both toys are just regular Deluxes and there's nothing else to add value... yet the price (at least according to my most current information) is the same as the Grimlock-Mirage pack.

I would maybe get Sideswipe if he was a single; that would free up my SIEGE version to be repainted as G2, and having the already-extant Earth tweaks (altho frankly just changing the roof paint on the SIEGE tooling would do a lot for that) and blue glazing would be neat. But they aren't enough to make me want to get a noncombining combiner member, especially at the gouged price.

Moving on from that...
Has the trainwreck (IMO anyway; I'm not happy about him needlessly getting ER Arcee'd) that is Tracks actually made its way into anyone here's hands yet? Would kitbashing him to have an integrated transformation be relatively straightforward, or is it enough of a lost cause that I'd be better off fixing the RTS version's ugly af flight mode?

And looking forward to getting my hands on Rodimus Prime, even if that takes til Christmas.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 am**

Tracks is not readily available in the west yet.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:33 am**

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:Wow! Easily the worst Transformers toy released in years & it gets a whole case to itself. And then they ship Netflix Soundwave 1 per case in a case of only 2 figures.

Just what I always wanted, a pelican skeleton. Hasbro really needs to lay off the drugs.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:28 am**

Personally, I'm just happy we are getting new alt modes and new characters. That was the norm for the first 2 decades of Transformers.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:33 am**

william-james88 wrote:Personally, I'm just happy we are getting new alt modes and new characters. That was the norm for the first 2 decades of Transformers.

Seriously. And new concepts! I think this are the first fossil Transformers. We're only getting four of these guys but honestly to me they're the only original thing in the franchise since the 2007 movie designs. Maybe Animated could count as original too? But after that, it's been a decade of do-overs.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:40 am**

Fossilizers are so freaking fun I've bought two of every single one. Just take a trip through Transformer Twitter and see all the amazing Monstrosities built by fans who don't spend their time in forums. There are a lot of them, both fans not in forums and amazing Monstrosities.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:44 am**

I don't expect anyone to do it, but I imagine somehow if you got 12 Wingfingers together, that might be the closest one could get to combined a TLK Dragonstorm

.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:45 am**

aronjlove wrote:Fossilizers are so freaking fun I've bought two of every single one. Just take a trip through Transformer Twitter and see all the amazing Monstrosities built by fans who don't spend their time in forums. There are a lot of them, both fans not in forums and amazing Monstrosities.

I think it's very cool. The whole play pattern is great and very fitting with Transformers. I'd love them to make something that wasn't a partsformer but still split in pieces that gave multiple configurations, sort of like Kup, but with the weaponizer possibilities of the fossilizers.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:05 am**

Rtron wrote:
aronjlove wrote:Fossilizers are so freaking fun I've bought two of every single one. Just take a trip through Transformer Twitter and see all the amazing Monstrosities built by fans who don't spend their time in forums. There are a lot of them, both fans not in forums and amazing Monstrosities.

I think it's very cool. The whole play pattern is great and very fitting with Transformers. I'd love them to make something that wasn't a partsformer but still split in pieces that gave multiple configurations, sort of like Kup, but with the weaponizer possibilities of the fossilizers.

I was hoping they would take this style and apply it to the extra Junkions. I get wanting Wreck-Gar himself to be a solid figure but an army of Junkions that break apart like Weaponizers/Fossilizers would be way cool!

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:15 am**

The shot of wingfinger in packaging makes it look really really bad compared to seeing the figure out of the box and in a few poses. Just because it's shaped like a turd doesn't mean it is one -and hasbro has polished plenty of others. Def not the worst wfc figure and I'm likely to pick him up due to combining but he'd still be on my 'if I have the money' to get him list.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:47 am**

aronjlove wrote:
Rtron wrote:
aronjlove wrote:Fossilizers are so freaking fun I've bought two of every single one. Just take a trip through Transformer Twitter and see all the amazing Monstrosities built by fans who don't spend their time in forums. There are a lot of them, both fans not in forums and amazing Monstrosities.

I think it's very cool. The whole play pattern is great and very fitting with Transformers. I'd love them to make something that wasn't a partsformer but still split in pieces that gave multiple configurations, sort of like Kup, but with the weaponizer possibilities of the fossilizers.

I was hoping they would take this style and apply it to the extra Junkions. I get wanting Wreck-Gar himself to be a solid figure but an army of Junkions that break apart like Weaponizers/Fossilizers would be way cool!

That's what was making me hesitant on Wreck-Gar! I kept looking at him and going "What am I missing here... It's perfect, but why am I not pumped for it?" I think HasTak might have decided against adding that concept to any more figures for some reason after Kup, cause Waspinator and the Junkions are PERFECT for that gimmick, but so far only Kup has it.

Ah well, hopefully we get a repaint of Wingfinger as a Predacon so that we can have a purely good Fossilizer combiner and purely bad Fossilizer combiner. Either way, it'll be interesting to see where the Weaponizer/Modulator/Fossilizer concept goes Post-WFC. I think current rumors suggest it's going away, but HasTak KNOWS how popular they are, so I can't imagine they'd just completely get rid of them

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Earthrise Wingfinger and wave 3 Core Class figures found at US Retail

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