The Energon Pub

. . . which makes me question the value of buying tactics. Do they transform more often if you buy levels in any other attribute? Does this go up with level? Or is it all purely random?

And here's a link to my teampage if the specific info on my builds is germane to answering these questions. (Plus, it's always nice to show off what you've built/written so far.)

Always remember that for every Tactic there is a attribute that directly effects it so you want to remember not to neglect them.
Ram = Strength
Avoid = Speed
Strafe = Firepower
Repair = Intelligence

That's good to know. I had my A-10 Sunbow with 1 in FRP and 1 in Strafe but he was never transforming. I think I will try to find an alt for him with a less expensive strafe and reconfigure him away from SKL. My beef is that he is still being killed by Decepticons with lower stats and weaker weapons.

Honestly those four primary stats should be your initial focus.

Skill might get you nifty weapons but it is xp better spent else where.

Sunbow reworked as a tank certainly performed to expectations in his first arena battle, albeit against a non-configured opponent. He just made enough XP to grab his next rank in strafe. More on-topic, I noticed that with FRP 2 and Strafe 1 Sunbow managed to transform twice in a relatively short battle.


Edit: So I just entered the arena against a non-configured opponent who surprisingly mopped the floor with FRP 1/Strafe 1 Sunbow yesterday (this despite TWO transformations--note, however, that I managed to send him in without a weapon). We'll see how Great Atlas handles FRP 2/Strafe 2 Sunbow in their grudge match today . . .

Will update.

To put it simply, the higher you upgrade your tactic, the higher the frequency of it's use.

But at level 0, you're not going to see it very often.

Burn wrote:To put it simply, the higher you upgrade your tactic, the higher the frequency of it's use.

But at level 0, you're not going to see it very often.

True. The only tactic you're going to see a lot at that level is avoid. And only if you go 2 spd, 2 avoid. I used to pull in decent xp at that level with that build. You dump the best no recharge weapon you can afford/find on that build and it does well for itself against other 0's.

Well, the fight is over and although Sunbow emerged victorious I cannot say that I'm at all satisfied. At a 40% miss rate with his turret-mounted gun and ZERO transformations, Sunbow squeaked by against an opponent without any upgrades wielding a mere sword. Two potential conclusions: the game relies far too heavily on randomness -OR- Level 0 is pretty much crap. If the first is true, there is no reason to continue playing. But I strongly suspect (and hope) that the second possibility is more accurate. In any case, the real question is: should any XP be spent on tactics in Level 0 or should it go to filling out the attributes that will ultimately feed the tactics?

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:The only tactic you're going to see a lot at that level is avoid. And only if you go 2 spd, 2 avoid. I used to pull in decent xp at that level with that build. You dump the best no recharge weapon you can afford/find on that build and it does well for itself against other 0's.

This is EXACTLY what I'm seeing with my character Starstruck, who has pulled ahead of her next-highest teammate by over 800 XP. Seems **** to simply spam the build and grind the XP, although I'm sure more than a few people have skipped a few levels by doing so.

Grimloque wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:The only tactic you're going to see a lot at that level is avoid. And only if you go 2 spd, 2 avoid. I used to pull in decent xp at that level with that build. You dump the best no recharge weapon you can afford/find on that build and it does well for itself against other 0's.

This is EXACTLY what I'm seeing with my character Starstruck, who has pulled ahead of her next-highest teammate by over 800 XP. Seems **** to simply spam the build and grind the XP, although I'm sure more than a few people have skipped a few levels by doing so.

Try 2 Str (whichever 0 Rank armor is the best), and 2 ram with no weapon. It's mostly an arena build. But it's alright in missions. There's not a whole lot of options at level 0 that are viable. I'm not telling you how to play the game, but most of the builds I run at level 1 (and most are experimental) aren't really viable until you hit 40K XP per character.

Also buy 8 more characters as soon as you can. Not only will it let you play the game more often (six characters max, two sets of teams rotating, etc.) but it will allow you to try different builds and such once you hit level 1-2.

http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... p?id=62729

Also technically speaking most of my character's builds shouldn't work at that level. But they do pretty well. Back Traced is a dual tactic strafer/repair at level 1. And almost everyone that reads that is going to go "Loki, what the bloody Hell are you thinking?", and I'll just respond that they're being monitored by the Cyber Police for questioning my build. He does pretty well since I created him believe it or not.

Star Wars Kid is another dual tactic user. This time strafe and avoid. Firepower and Skill are that high solely for him to use Lightsaber. I'll be dumping nothing but speed into him as I grind for XP.

*edit*

I read your other post. Get rid of Turret Mounted Gun. It's damage spread is too wide. It's why the damage is erratic. If you're going to keep 2 FP get a doll. Also the reason why you missed so much is because you have 0 speed. Speed ups your dodge and accuracy and has a minor effect similar to courage. Speed helps with your recover time apparently (untested theory) and lets you make back to back attacks. Courage lets you attack more often. Combine them together and you attack more often and can pull combos.

at low levels avoiders are where the xp is at.

short summary of stats and what they do

str-adds to all non tactic damage (melee and guns) and ram
speed-accuracy and makes you harder to hit
int-nothing without repair (some argue it gives slightly better xp, but no real evidence)
Rank-better armor
Fpr-better strafe damage, use better weapons
skill-use better weapons (arguably nothing)

but dont expect to see a bunch of transforming transformers until you have 6+ ranks (except avoid)

First of all (how rude of me to neglect this), thank you Editor, Burn, and N_V for solid, quick answers. Thanks especially to Loki for the plethora of information.

Regarding weapons, I noticed that the turret-mounted gun had a wider range than the dol-laser rifle (which I had already given to Nightchase to so-so effect) but guessed that there must be some reason--beyond the seemingly slim chance at doing very heavy damage--that the T-MG was coming in at 4,200E more. (Meanwhile, I only mentioned Sunbow's disappointing accuracy because of the randomness factor. He's shot much better in other tussles, although not of late.) Did I really pay all that to "step up" from <--moderate--heavy--> to <--light--moderate--heavy--very heavy-->? Are you sure it's as simple as that? In most games, the narrower damage band would make for the more expensive weapon--because, as noted, it is clearly the superior weapon.

On a related note, do weapons have anything to do with the damage you do in alt-mode? Or is the damage you do on a Strafe related to Firepower and the damage you do on a Ram related to Strength? In which case, ranks in the tactic are tied to frequency of transformation whereas ranks in the associated skill are tied to efficacy?

EDIT: This is why I've had a hard time taking the "scientist" type seriously. I could see continuing with him if I was involved in more organized play but . . . sigh. *To anyone who clicks the link later on and is wondering why I am trashing a SPD 2/Avoid 2 Lvl 0 as a "scientist"--it's because at the time of this mission log, the character was INT 1/Repair 2.

Grimloque wrote:Did I really pay all that to "step up" from <--moderate--heavy--> to <--light--moderate--heavy--very heavy-->? Are you sure it's as simple as that? In most games, the narrower damage band would make for the more expensive weapon--because, as noted, it is clearly the superior weapon.

yep. weapons arent exactly balanced in this game. after a 5 str or higher you're better off without weapons

Grimloque wrote:is the damage you do on a Strafe related to Firepower and the damage you do on a Ram related to Strength? In which case, ranks in the tactic are tied to frequency of transformation whereas ranks in the associated skill are tied to efficacy?

yep. sounds like you got it.

anything else?

No mention of Courage?

Courage is the main stat used to determine how often your minions make an action in a mission/arena battle of any kind, tactic or melee.

Name_Violation wrote:

Grimloque wrote:Did I really pay all that to "step up" from <--moderate--heavy--> to <--light--moderate--heavy--very heavy-->? Are you sure it's as simple as that? In most games, the narrower damage band would make for the more expensive weapon--because, as noted, it is clearly the superior weapon.

yep. weapons arent exactly balanced in this game.

"Poor balance" seems a generous review of allowing a weapon to be significantly more effective than another one that costs nearly three times as much. But if that's the way it is, that's the way it is.

Psychout wrote:Courage is the main stat used to determine how often your minions make an action in a mission/arena battle of any kind, tactic or melee.

Sure but--if I understand this correctly--CRG is only tied to taking any action not particularly to whether or not you will transform during that action.

Grimloque wrote:Sure but--if I understand this correctly--CRG is only tied to taking any action not particularly to whether or not you will transform during that action.

yes. but it doesnt really come into play until around 3rd level. till then you can skate by without it

most weapons exist as filler.

gattling gun, fusion cannon, and proton pack rifle are pretty good, but those are all high stat pre req weapons. null ray sre the best low level weapons (hence why they are perpetually sold out)

Name_Violation wrote:null ray sre the best low level weapons (hence why they are perpetually sold out)

At the risk of flat-out whinging, why is it again that weapons can be soldout? I know the Transformers set loves to collect rare items but come on.

Its becuse the staff no longer have access to the weapons panels to restock them. This is an old game that has some 'quirks', this unfortunately is one of them.

As an update to the earlier saga of Sunbow's battles against Great Atlas, Nightchase just took him on, resulting in another disappointingly close victory. Unlike Sunbow, Nightchase managed to transform. Of course, Great Atlas had to one-up her by transforming twice.

You're a quirk.

Come on, let's tell it like it is. At level 0 any wins or losses are mostly due to luck and the RNG. The stats you can boost are still too low to really be of much influence, and I'd say there are no configurations which give an upward swing of your win-percentages any more than 5 to 10%. The rest of your wins are due to RNG-luck, facing weaker opponents and/or being on the larger/stronger team.

Best shot is to level up as soon as possible, and until then, just invest in on of the main stats (STR, COU or SPE) and in avoid as a tactic. FPR isn't worth it at level 0.

You're welcome kid. I learned everything I know from friends, and they learned it from perhaps the single greatest guru in this game. Circle is complete, Student is now the master, yadda yadda yadda.

Psychout wrote:No mention of Courage?

Courage is the main stat used to determine how often your minions make an action in a mission/arena battle of any kind, tactic or melee.

I mentioned it ya stoned git!

Grimloque wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:

Grimloque wrote:Did I really pay all that to "step up" from <--moderate--heavy--> to <--light--moderate--heavy--very heavy-->? Are you sure it's as simple as that? In most games, the narrower damage band would make for the more expensive weapon--because, as noted, it is clearly the superior weapon.

yep. weapons arent exactly balanced in this game.

"Poor balance" seems a generous review of allowing a weapon to be significantly more effective than another one that costs nearly three times as much. But if that's the way it is, that's the way it is.

The game's balance is off because of how old it is and because there's no Admin or programmer to enable the Mods to tweek the weapons panel.

Also damage spread weapons at higher stat cost (IE firepower, skill, or a combination of both) do more damage than their weaker versions. For example a moderate to heavy damage weapon at 2 FP does more damage than one at 1 FP. The reason the good weapons sell out is simple. There's only a finite number of them now that the weapons store can't be updated and it's human nature to want the best possible weapons for your team. Your best bet to get better weapons as a newer player is to hit up people in your faction and ask if they can sell of spares. Co-ordinate this through msn, pm's, irc, etc. to make sure you get the gun you want. If you can't afford the gun ask for some cash to be fronted to you. Offer to pay it back if needed. Your factionmates will generally be happy to do this for you as it means you'll level faster and be able to back them up sooner.

Grimloque wrote:

Psychout wrote:Courage is the main stat used to determine how often your minions make an action in a mission/arena battle of any kind, tactic or melee.

Sure but--if I understand this correctly--CRG is only tied to taking any action not particularly to whether or not you will transform during that action.

False. Courage is tied to how often you can attack. The more attacks the more chances an offensive tactic will activate. Offensive tactics include strafe and ram. High courage as a support skill along with their feeder skills and the tactics themselves at a high enough level make for more transformations/tactic use.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:

Grimloque wrote:

Psychout wrote:Courage is the main stat used to determine how often your minions make an action in a mission/arena battle of any kind, tactic or melee.

Sure but--if I understand this correctly--CRG is only tied to taking any action not particularly to whether or not you will transform during that action.

False. Courage is tied to how often you can attack. The more attacks the more chances an offensive tactic will activate. Offensive tactics include strafe and ram. High courage as a support skill along with their feeder skills and the tactics themselves at a high enough level make for more transformations/tactic use.

Wait, no . . . er, let me try and explain what I think is going on. But first a question: is it the case that CRG makes it more likely that you will attack more frequently (this is what it says, right?) or simply act more frequently. Is there a functional difference between attacking and acting? I ask in light of the "purely defensive" Avoid tactic which occurs when you are attacked rather than when you are attacking. Moving on, CRG gives your more attacks or acts. Let's say a CRG score of 0+X gives you X% more chance of acting/attacking more times before your opponent(s) attack(s)/act(s) -OR- (I'm not sure which it really is) X number of extra attacks/acts before your opponent(s) attack(s)/act(s). That's not actually the same thing as making it more likely that you will use a tactic. From what has been said earlier in the post, it would seem that the particular tactic score itself is what makes the tactic more or less likely to happen. The more points I have in Avoid, the more likely I am to actually use Avoid. Let's say that my Avoid score gives me a 50% chance of using that tactic. Whether or not I have one or one hundred attacks/acts before my opponents next move (i.e., no matter what my CRG score is) I still only have a 50% probability of using it.

*EDIT: I see you are making a distinction of "offensive tactics," which presumably can only occur when you attack. I get what you mean now regarding CRG: you need an attack to even have a chance at activating a tactic like Strafe or Ram. Even so, CRG does not effect how probable it is that the offensive tactic will occur just like how the number of times you flip a coin has nothing to do with the probability of it coming up heads or tails.

Higher courage will mean your chances of making an offensive move greater.

That's why at higher levels with higher courage, avoid becomes redundant as it's a defensive tactic.
Avoid activates when an opposing bot targets your bot.

Higher speed counters that. I.E. if you have high courage and high speed, you're turn to attack will come up quicker thanks to courage and the speed will of both bots will determine whether you hit or miss if you use a non-tactic attack.

Burn wrote:Higher courage will mean your chances of making an offensive move greater.

That's why at higher levels with higher courage, avoid becomes redundant as it's a defensive tactic.
Avoid activates when an opposing bot targets your bot.

Higher speed counters that. I.E. if you have high courage and high speed, you're turn to attack will come up quicker thanks to courage and the speed will of both bots will determine whether you hit or miss if you use a non-tactic attack.

Burnsy speaks the truth. Courage increases the chance that you'll make an offensive move. Offensive tactics like strafe and ram work by triggering when you make an attack. The higher your tactic the more likely you'll use it when you make an attack. And avoid is a defensive skill.

Avoid triggers like this: Your opponent makes an attack. An invisible dice roll is rolled by the RNG. It weighs your opponents speed vs. yours and whether the attack is successful or not. If your speed is higher and the RNG rules that you dodged the attack nothing happens, you just dodge it. However, if it rules that the attack is successful that's when avoid would trigger if possible. It only triggers on what would have been a successful attack.

High speed high avoiders are able to fight higher levels with hit and run tactics in this way. You'll lose in a straight up fight but with enough speed and avoid you can rake in XP and with luck and chance down bigger enemies if your team mates soften them.

However, from talking to others Avoid isn't useless at higher levels if you have a dual tactic alt. High speed, high courage, high avoid, and whatever feeder stats in either Ram or Strafe can make a difference in a losing battle. Because you have the chance to avoid heavy hits and retaliate with a hard ram or a massive strafing run.