The Energon Pub

No doubt the Masterpiece line have lots of details. But if u take a closer look at them, r u able to convince yourselves that these are masterpieces when u look through the windshield and what u see are chunks of robot pieces and not the nicely detailed car seats, steering wheels, etc?

I know there are not many Alternity fanatics ard like I do, but I really appreciate the fine details they put in there, albeit for the smaller size. This should be the way transformers are to be tailored made, scaled down actual-liked machines that transformed into bots.

For me, the Alternity line is the truly MASTERPIECE!!!

First post troll?

Alternity is shoe horned to a particular transform sequence akin to the Binaltech/Alternator style (i.e the carry chairs for pilots/drivers with their doors turning into wings of sorts). Limited so's to speak. So what you see in the windshield is the driver's seat and not their inner robot parts.

Masterpiece encompasses various transformation sequences where some can sit the human pilots/friends while others can't. They are sort off to a degree limited to actually emulate their animated counterparts. Alternity is like a reimagination of the G1 characters we all know and love. The seekers are now cars so is Megatron.

MP has a mech dino, a tractor trailer and car carrier, a weapon, fighter jet automobile and communication device. So each line has their own merits and demerits and it is unfair to disparage one line for the other. If you own only Alternity, then good for you (I also own the apple red Convoy,awesome little bugger and with a die-cast frame/spine). Too bad I missed another line with the Suzuki Swift licensed Bumble and Cliff (you can even consider them Masterpieces of sorts) but I ain't sour graping.

You do OWN one from the line do you? A TF Masterpiece that is. If not, then I don't think you are in a postion to judge. Blowing such generalizations is TROLLING.

fenrir72 wrote:First post troll?

This is how you greet people? ugh ...

No more of that please, from anyone.

To get back on topic, I get where crash8burnt is coming from. For me personally, I thought Binaltech/Alternators was an fantastic line. Licensed vehicles (with great detailing like car seats, steering wheels and dashboards) that turned into equally impressive robot modes.

Alternity was just an extension of that line to me.

Masterpieces? Well they are what they are, they're meant to represent the best of both modes, in other words, what's on the outside. Interior design isn't a factor, only how both modes look on the outside.

So comparing them is like apples and oranges, both look and taste different, and each serves their own purpose and has their own fans.

Burn wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:First post troll?

This is how you greet people? ugh ...

No more of that please, from anyone.

To get back on topic, I get where crash8burnt is coming from. For me personally, I thought Binaltech/Alternators was an fantastic line. Licensed vehicles (with great detailing like car seats, steering wheels and dashboards) that turned into equally impressive robot modes.

Alternity was just an extension of that line to me.

Masterpieces? Well they are what they are, they're meant to represent the best of both modes, in other words, what's on the outside. Interior design isn't a factor, only how both modes look on the outside.

So comparing them is like apples and oranges, both look and taste different, and each serves their own purpose and has their own fans.

Oh I know where the post was coming from Burn. Maybe I should have typed "first troll post?"That was my intent.

You for instance own an MP figure. Then you can compare the two lines.Like apples and oranges. Same as I responded in the subsequent paragraph. You must have at least an MP before you can lob such generalizations. If he does, then he can push his point. If not, you know the "T" word that best fits the post.

I never owned any Bayformers figs aside from the first leader Op from 2007. I am not fond of the TF Movies but I never posted negatory on a line I have no familiarity with. It's doing the "t" word.

And yeah, for a first post to greet us all, he sure has a way weird way of doing it.

I can actually see this perspective. Sounds like you're looking for ultra detailed, perfect vehicle modes. Masterpiece in its current incarnation is very much skewed towards providing robot modes that scale and evoke the original cartoon series. The alt modes are secondary with it, so yeah, if those are your priority then it'd be hard to get on the MP hype train.

They are not alone I prefer Binaltech Alert to Masterpiece Prowl by a long way.

Alternity ultra detailed? My red Convoy isn't that "detailed" to me (unless you mention the car seats and steering wheel).

But the MP aren't meant to have those (even UM's car seat is indeed limited). Even MP-10 too has a limited drivers cab.

But if you would use that standard, would Binaltech Optimus Prime/KISSPlayers Convoy ( only part of the series I retained) or Alternator Optimus Prime be considered more MP than MP-10?

As Burn did mention, apples and oranges.

What about the walking blunt trauma weapon aka MP-01? If he ain't considered MP then I give up

fenrir72 wrote:But if you would use that standard, would Binaltech Optimus Prime/KISSPlayers Convoy ( only part of the series I retained) or Alternator Optimus Prime be considered more MP than MP-10?

Apples and oranges. Heck, when it comes to Optimus Prime/Convoy, you just can't compare Masterpiece and BT/Alt. They're completely different.

The likes of Tracks and Prowl however...

Burn wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:But if you would use that standard, would Binaltech Optimus Prime/KISSPlayers Convoy ( only part of the series I retained) or Alternator Optimus Prime be considered more MP than MP-10?

Apples and oranges. Heck, when it comes to Optimus Prime/Convoy, you just can't compare Masterpiece and BT/Alt. They're completely different.

The likes of Tracks and Prowl however...

Maybe our gripes also have to do with size. And the materials used. Binaltech had oodles of metal parts and of course taller in robot form.But since TT has committed to the present scale....

Addendum: Can't comment on MP-Prowl yet as I don't own one but the Binaltech version of the "prick" (police car and not the blue one) was equally BOSS awesome! I handled one for a while (didn't own it) from a display case of a store owned by a buddy of mine.

The oomph factor of the weight and metals really does make the line stand out. Too bad the line died.

fenrir72 wrote:The oomph factor of the weight and metals really does make the line stand out. Too bad the line died.

That's where Alternators was good (and why I have all BT in my boxes and my Alts out for fiddling). The plastic made them lighter and easier to handle.

And yeah, no argument that the line died. But in a way I guess it simply evolved into Masterpiece. Marketing decided to move in a different direction. Considering as well, they would have had to get licenses for all the vehicles it was probably a very costly line, as opposed to MP where licensing problems are few.

I like to listen to others opinions on MP through this post, be it for or against. No hard feelings if 1 felt offended. I do own a few MPs, not the whole line. Agreed with Burn, we can't really compare apples to oranges, and I also like Binaltech/Alternators, Kiss players. I also agreed that MPs have very nice details and looks great. I just wish that TT would incorporated the detailed interior design into MPs, or blow-up the Alternity/Binaltech/Alternators size!

crash8burnt wrote:or blow-up the Alternity/Binaltech/Alternators size!

oooo no. They're quite large enough as it is. I wouldn't want to see them any larger.

crash8burnt wrote:I like to listen to others opinions on MP through this post, be it for or against. No hard feelings if 1 felt offended. I do own a few MPs, not the whole line. Agreed with Burn, we can't really compare apples to oranges, and I also like Binaltech/Alternators, Kiss players. I also agreed that MPs have very nice details and looks great. I just wish that TT would incorporated the detailed interior design into MPs, or blow-up the Alternity/Binaltech/Alternators size!

As mentioned, the MP line didn't put emphasis on the "pilot" cockpits the way the original Diaclone line did. So you would not be seeing the detailed driver's exterior that was so obvious in the Alternity and Binaltech.

If you noticed, Binaltech and Alternity more or less followed the pattern of the chairs becoming the foot or arm armor and the doors turning into wings. The MP Datsun mold followed a similar approach except for having detailed drivers cockpit as it would be near impossible to incorporate them in "all" subsequent releases.

Imagine Hotrodimus where we can seat the Daniel fig from UM. That would be awesome but the compressed transformation sequences would be a nightmare for the designer.

Eh, Alternity is cool and all, but they're just dumbed down continuation of the superior BT/Alternators series with added "automorphing" gimmick (which is hot garbage when they start to get stuck after a while). BTs though, holds a special place in my collection mainly because it's what got me back into transformers, and they have functional steering and hoods and doors (except for Ravage, that's when the line goes down the crap zone).

That said, I personally think they are masterpieces in their own right (even for car enthusiasts), to be judge with their own set of standards.

MPs, on the other hand are recreation of the characters to be as show accurate as possible, which they are doing pretty well. So to answer your question, it's a yes.

Are "Masterpieces" truly masterpieces? Absolutely.

I'd say the line borderlines on sorcery -- I don't know how Takara manages to cram both a real-world car model, and a (highly poseable) cartoon-accurate robot into the same toy.

Plus, there's the robot-scale that Hasui had implemented starting with MP-10; and all those accessories..

The paint apps, sculpting and proportions are fantastic and sleek. Just look at Prowl there, he looks like a fashion model.



Can't say I'm remotely bothered by car interiors and moving steering wheels in TF toys. I guess these are cool in non-transforming diecast model cars.

Cyberpath wrote:Are "Masterpieces" truly masterpieces? Absolutely.

I'd say the line borderlines on sorcery -- I don't know how Takara manages to cram both a real-world car model, and a (highly poseable) cartoon-accurate robot into the same toy.

Plus, there's the robot-scale that Hasui had implemented starting with MP-10; and all those accessories..

The paint apps, sculpting and proportions are fantastic and sleek. Just look at Prowl there, he looks like a fashion model.

Can't say I'm remotely bothered by car interiors and moving steering wheels in TF toys. I guess these are cool in non-transforming diecast model cars.

That "prick' of a 'bot will soon be mine (right after I pay for Devs).

I like some Alternators more than some MP's - the problem I have with either though is if they become so fiddly the cease to be fun - for Alternators that would be the Wheeljack/Grimlock mould for MP I can tolerate Lambor more than Prowl - I find Prowl tedious to transform.

That said I don't especially like Alernators Prowl much either so in short I think Lambor is OK - not great (to many design flaws) but OK - Prowl I don't like at all he's to floppy and awkward to transform in spots.

Bumblebee, Ultra Magnus I don't have - Rodimus I didn't even bother to open out of fear of him breaking.

I get why MP's suit people but I can only speak for myself when I say I see them as an interesting niche line much like Binaltech was itself. I would be fair and say MP's are better toys that Alternity though - they were a little to fragile for my tastes.

That said I actively dislike the MP-03 mould family. I don't like when 3rd parties copy the worst aspect of MP's which is needless fiddlyness.

I remain firmly a fan of that early 2000's period - chunky solid toys that looks like a Transformer rightly should have good articulation - they do stuff and don't take 30 Minutes to Transform (like M3).

I think something that has a complexity level of the TFC Aerialbots is about right for me it means I don't have to free up some time to just transform something like I would the Fanprojects Stunticons.

Perhaps Combiner Wars is to far the other way - perhaps not - I think I want modest complexity but without needless fiddlyness, I want the Transformations to be fun rather than scary.

I hate to bring up Movie toys in a positive light but the earlier less fiddly Concept Camero Bumblebee from 2008 is a good example to of good transformer in an engineering sense - he's pleasing in some ways in that everything goes where you think it should go (unlike Battle Blade Bumblebee or Movie Mixmaster) and yet he still has good joints and doesn't take to long to transform.

That is also why U slightly prefer the RID-12 Bumblebee to the Prime FE-Bumblebee - he's less fiddly and really quick to Transform - but is also well jointed. if the FE version clipped together a little better I might say otherwise but perhaps FE Bee isn't a bad example either in terms of acceptable complexity - he's on the upper limit though for me.


In short I like Transformers I can Transform and not just look at.

ScottyP wrote:I can actually see this perspective. Sounds like you're looking for ultra detailed, perfect vehicle modes. Masterpiece in its current incarnation is very much skewed towards providing robot modes that scale and evoke the original cartoon series. The alt modes are secondary with it, so yeah, if those are your priority then it'd be hard to get on the MP hype train.

Yeah I totally agree with that. The Masterpiece aspect is about having the perfect robot mode while it was the opposite with the alternators/alternity line. I personally preffer the masterpice line since there is more diversity in the alt modes and transformations.

But I totally agree that the best ever lines for perfect alt modes are G1, Binaltech and Alternity.

EDIT: The most accurate Jet alt mode ever though is the original Masterpiece Starscream.

I like the Masterpiece line. I like that the bot modes are very close to , if not exactly, like their cartoon appearances and the alt modes are very close to their real-world counterpart. The only issue I have with them is size. I would have loved to see them scale the whole line to MP-01. I like the big figures. I feel that it gives them more of a "statue-like" quality. The smaller size makes them feel more like toys.

The Alternators/Binaltech stuff is really cool. The bot modes on them just don't "do it" for me. They are disproportionate and clunky (for the most part). I display mine in alt mode because that is where these things shine. The thing is, they never get transformed. They sit on the shelf and never move.

I prefer Masterpiece to Alternators. I am a bot-first collector. I am willing to sacrifice some alt mode to get a better bot mode.

wj88 said something about bot first over cars and vice versa.

The latter would be binaltech. For MP, what makes it MP is how TT fit a freakin' humanoid form into a Rubik's cube (i.e. IH and Ratchet) and still look like a real life vehicle. Of course the transition won't be perfect (MP-10 which is very minute) but the design efforts put into them...freakin' Masterpiece.

Btw, for those piling on Starsaber, get a hold of the original toy specs in the Generations 1st and special edition releases and then compare the MP to the anime. Only thing to make him a 100% perfect would have been if TT added an extra helmet that included Jean as a pilot.(In the anime, Jean could pilot the V-star in Satrsaber's helmet/cockpit.

william-james88 wrote:EDIT: The most accurate Jet alt mode ever though is the original Masterpiece Starscream.

Is it more accurate than MP-11? I never owned the original. Thinking about picking up TRU's MP Screamer.

As for Alternity, I've owned only a couple of them, and never got into them. They're sharp figures, but they're essentially the same. To me Transformers in general (and thus the MP line) are interesting because each individual figure is different, except for the repaints. IMO, most of the Alternity figures are pretty much repaints of one another, with a few variations. The only Alternity figure I have an active interest in owning is GT-R Maximus.

I think that what makes a MP is not how real the alt mode is to real life, but how faithful the figure is to the character on the screen or on the page. By that definition, Alternity has nothing on Masterpiece. The alt modes do look really sharp.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:EDIT: The most accurate Jet alt mode ever though is the original Masterpiece Starscream.

Is it more accurate than MP-11? I never owned the original. Thinking about picking up TRU's MP Screamer.

As for Alternity, I've owned only a couple of them, and never got into them. They're sharp figures, but they're essentially the same. To me Transformers in general (and thus the MP line) are interesting because each individual figure is different, except for the repaints. IMO, most of the Alternity figures are pretty much repaints of one another, with a few variations. The only Alternity figure I have an active interest in owning is GT-R Maximus.

I think that what makes a MP is not how real the alt mode is to real life, but how faithful the figure is to the character on the screen or on the page. By that definition, Alternity has nothing on Masterpiece. The alt modes do look really sharp.

Alternity only consists of 4 different molds with a bunch of repaints each. And the GT series is just a bunch of redecos of the alternity optimus mold with new heads (granted they are beautiful heads).

As for MP Starscream, the original mold is far more accurate as a jet than the MP 11 mold. It's a fun story, but the original designer of MP Starscream (who is famous for having designed the Macross toys) wanted a perfect jet mode, at all costs, including massive kibble that isnt used in robot mode. MP 11 goes for a better robot mode and thus there are more robot parts showing on the sides in jet mode. And hasbro's MP 11 is now officially sold out, but the prices on e-bay are still a much better deal than going for the Takara route.


Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-11) Gallery


Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-11) Gallery

HFTD Leader Starscream or the Japanese exclusive version is a way better toy than any version of the MP-03 Lineage, thought I do have a small fondness for the iGear Ramjet homage.

I really can't state enough how poor I think the MP-03 toy is "as a toy" as model plane it's nice enough as a static shelf-piece it's also fine as a toy - I could likely poke holes in what is wrong with it all afternoon. It's not like the redux version fixed much either - heck the iGear ones at least have better ankles.

So yeah is someone said you would like one of them as a display piece I say sure for something to sit in a case they look super nice - but since I like to play with my toys I just can't share the love tonight I'm afraid when it comes to that design.

But as I said before I see why people like them - they are just not my cup of tea.

RAR wrote:HFTD Leader Starscream or the Japanese exclusive version is a way better toy than any version of the MP-03 Lineage, thought I do have a small fondness for the iGear Ramjet homage.

I really can't state enough how poor I think the MP-03 toy is "as a toy" as model plane it's nice enough as a static shelf-piece it's also fine as a toy - I could likely poke holes in what is wrong with it all afternoon. It's not like the redux version fixed much either - heck the iGear ones at least have better ankles.

So yeah is someone said you would like one of them as a display piece I say sure for something to sit in a case they look super nice - but since I like to play with my toys I just can't share the love tonight I'm afraid when it comes to that design.

But as I said before I see why people like them - they are just not my cup of tea.

I read somewhere that supposedly the TRU version is sturdier than the MP-03 release? This is my only MP seeker

MP 03 is a toy I would recomend no one. The only reason I brought it up is because the main subject line is about how the masterpiece line doesnt have the most accurate vehicle modes to which I said is not true in all cases because MP 03 has the most accurate jet with the least amount of kibble showing (even less than HFTD starscream).

And yes the recent MP 07 Starscream from Toysrus is the sturdiest and best use of the mold so far.