The Energon Pub

[DedicatedGhostArt]

I apologize people, I am not intending to annoy people or spam posts, I am used to chats, this is not a chat, I apologize for my idiocy, please forgive me.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Devastator is the ultimate combiner and one of the few with 6 members, so yeah, He gots rights to be huge!

First combiner I'll give you, but ultimate? That's debatable.

Then again, I didn't grow up on G1. The first combiner toys I had were Magnaboss and Tripredacus, and the first combiner I saw on TV was Rail Racer, so to me, it's wound up being Rail Racer who represents an ideal combiner. (Yes, I realize that invalidates my opinion on everything, even things not related to Transformers.

I didn't grow up with G1 either. My transformers life began with the first live action movie and Animated when I was 12, so I'm far from G1. But to me, Devastator is the combiner with the most attention and rated the highest, so I see him as the ultimate combiner

[megatronus]

Devastator is the ultimate combiner and one of the few with 6 members, so yeah, He gots rights to be huge!

First combiner I'll give you, but ultimate? That's debatable.

Then again, I didn't grow up on G1. The first combiner toys I had were Magnaboss and Tripredacus, and the first combiner I saw on TV was Rail Racer, so to me, it's wound up being Rail Racer who represents an ideal combiner. (Yes, I realize that invalidates my opinion on everything, even things not related to Transformers.

I didn't grow up with G1 either. My transformers life began with the first live action movie and Animated when I was 12, so I'm far from G1. But to me, Devastator is the combiner with the most attention and rated the highest, so I see him as the ultimate combiner

I grew up on G1 - sort of. I had some of the first season on VHS, and rented the 86 movie constantly.

Because of that, Devastator is the only combiner I really grew up on (with a brief flirtation with Tripredacus), and I too see him as the ultimate combiner. That's also why I'm somewhat hard on the Titan Class toy - my expectations are super high. I still plan on buying and enjoying him though... I mean, who wouldn't?

[King Kuuga]

I'm going to quote a post from the main Combiner Wars thread because it has to do with Devastator:

I would like a CW Land Cross that would be cool ore a repaint of Titan Devy

Scrapper into Scoop
Hook into Erector
Long-haul into Wideload
Mix-master into Quick-mix
Scavenger into Build Team Grimlock
Bone-crusher into Wedge

That would be sweet

Oh yeah I never thought of that! Brilliant! I was trying to figure out a repaint for these molds, because we all know hasbro and takara does remolds.

Hasbro's precedent for redecoing and retooling their large molds is uh.... not in our favor. Look at Devastator here. They had two easy alternate decos they could have used for the SDCC release, in G2 colors: either yellow or orange. Instead they just added chrome and more details to the existing color scheme. They did the same to Metroplex.

Having said that, I absolutely love Rodimus Minor's idea.

[MemphisR56]

I'm going to quote a post from the main Combiner Wars thread because it has to do with Devastator:

I would like a CW Land Cross that would be cool ore a repaint of Titan Devy

Scrapper into Scoop
Hook into Erector
Long-haul into Wideload
Mix-master into Quick-mix
Scavenger into Build Team Grimlock
Bone-crusher into Wedge

That would be sweet

Oh yeah I never thought of that! Brilliant! I was trying to figure out a repaint for these molds, because we all know hasbro and takara does remolds.

Hasbro's precedent for redecoing and retooling their large molds is uh.... not in our favor. Look at Devastator here. They had two easy alternate decos they could have used for the SDCC release, in G2 colors: either yellow or orange. Instead they just added chrome and more details to the existing color scheme. They did the same to Metroplex.

Having said that, I absolutely love Rodimus Minor's idea.

Let's at least give Hasbro their due, They did add a new head sculpt into the mix here, so now there's a version available to people who want either the individual eye or the visor.

They're pre-empting the inevitable third party head replacement kit.

[gavinfuzzy]

The SDCC exclusive version kinda won me with the chrome purple... But it had black arms... I prefer purple...

Hopefully takara unveils their deco soon. With UW-03 being defensor and scheduled for a November release, and even a teaser for the ultra prime, its going to be awhile before takara releases Devy. If I wait out for Takara's Devy i'll probably be waiting till early 2016. Come to think of it, I pre-ordered Takara's Defensor without even seeing the final colours . Hopefully it does not disappoint.

[Sabrblade]

The SDCC exclusive version kinda won me with the chrome purple... But it had black arms...

So too does the retail version.

[gavinfuzzy]

The SDCC exclusive version kinda won me with the chrome purple... But it had black arms...

So too does the retail version.

Indeed, if the sdcc one had chrome purple arms it would have been instant buy.

[Syn_13]

The SDCC exclusive version kinda won me with the chrome purple... But it had black arms...

So too does the retail version.

Indeed, if the sdcc one had chrome purple arms it would have been instant buy.

I'm guessing Takara may have that covered.

[Sabrblade]

The SDCC exclusive version kinda won me with the chrome purple... But it had black arms...

So too does the retail version.

Indeed, if the sdcc one had chrome purple arms it would have been instant buy.

I'm guessing Takara may have that covered.

Takara's might just have purple hands but keep the arms black since Cartoon Devastator had black arms w/ purple hands.

[King Kuuga]

Let's at least give Hasbro their due, They did add a new head sculpt into the mix here, so now there's a version available to people who want either the individual eye or the visor.

They're pre-empting the inevitable third party head replacement kit.

This much is true.

Also, I like your avatar.

[Evil Eye]

Hey guys, all this talk of scale is driving me kinda nuts. I thought scale was just to imitate how the characters look like in comparison to one another in the G1 tv show (or whatever show a figure originates from).

By that definition, Generations Devastator combined is not in scale with the other combiners but is in scale with deluxe class figures (and technically is in scale with the individual combiner components). The other CW combiners on the other hand, while they are in scale with oneanother, they are not in scale with deluxe class figures when combined, they are more in scale with Legends size figures. Which is why Shockwave and others being released as legends figures makes sense. There are currently 2 scales at play in combiner wars and generations due to the mass shifting aspect. I dont see what is so hard to udnerstand about all this.

If the individual robots are to scale with other Transformers then it stands to reason that the combined mode is in scale too, given that the combined mode can only be as big as the sum of its parts.

Unless of course you factor in size changing, which is impossible to replicate on a toy and is also extremely stupid.

[Cobotron]

which is impossible to replicate on a toy and is also extremely stupid.

Glad you had the Delta Man-NUTS to say it. Thank you.

[King Kuuga]

Hey guys, all this talk of scale is driving me kinda nuts. I thought scale was just to imitate how the characters look like in comparison to one another in the G1 tv show (or whatever show a figure originates from).

By that definition, Generations Devastator combined is not in scale with the other combiners but is in scale with deluxe class figures (and technically is in scale with the individual combiner components). The other CW combiners on the other hand, while they are in scale with oneanother, they are not in scale with deluxe class figures when combined, they are more in scale with Legends size figures. Which is why Shockwave and others being released as legends figures makes sense. There are currently 2 scales at play in combiner wars and generations due to the mass shifting aspect. I dont see what is so hard to udnerstand about all this.

If the individual robots are to scale with other Transformers then it stands to reason that the combined mode is in scale too, given that the combined mode can only be as big as the sum of its parts.

Unless of course you factor in size changing, which is impossible to replicate on a toy and is also extremely stupid.

Stupid or not, mass-shifting is part of Transformers and particularly combiners. Has been since the beginning.

[Spanbauer]

I'm going to quote a post from the main Combiner Wars thread because it has to do with Devastator:

I would like a CW Land Cross that would be cool ore a repaint of Titan Devy

Scrapper into Scoop
Hook into Erector
Long-haul into Wideload
Mix-master into Quick-mix
Scavenger into Build Team Grimlock
Bone-crusher into Wedge

That would be sweet

Oh yeah I never thought of that! Brilliant! I was trying to figure out a repaint for these molds, because we all know hasbro and takara does remolds.

Hasbro's precedent for redecoing and retooling their large molds is uh.... not in our favor. Look at Devastator here. They had two easy alternate decos they could have used for the SDCC release, in G2 colors: either yellow or orange. Instead they just added chrome and more details to the existing color scheme. They did the same to Metroplex.

Having said that, I absolutely love Rodimus Minor's idea.

I for one am grateful that Hasbro's SDCC Devastator offering isn't a yellow G2 version but instead a premium edition of their retail product. I wish it were standard practice for more of their figures that Hasbro offered premium editions for higher prices for collectors willing to pay for more. Because lord knows every figure they release has been stripped down from its full potential in order to hit a pricepoint for their retailers.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Hey guys, all this talk of scale is driving me kinda nuts. I thought scale was just to imitate how the characters look like in comparison to one another in the G1 tv show (or whatever show a figure originates from).

By that definition, Generations Devastator combined is not in scale with the other combiners but is in scale with deluxe class figures (and technically is in scale with the individual combiner components). The other CW combiners on the other hand, while they are in scale with oneanother, they are not in scale with deluxe class figures when combined, they are more in scale with Legends size figures. Which is why Shockwave and others being released as legends figures makes sense. There are currently 2 scales at play in combiner wars and generations due to the mass shifting aspect. I dont see what is so hard to udnerstand about all this.

If the individual robots are to scale with other Transformers then it stands to reason that the combined mode is in scale too, given that the combined mode can only be as big as the sum of its parts.

Unless of course you factor in size changing, which is impossible to replicate on a toy and is also extremely stupid.

Stupid or not, mass-shifting is part of Transformers and particularly combiners. Has been since the beginning.

Yeah like G1 Soundwave for example, And G1 Megatron.

I don't mind mass shifting, as long as it looks cool.

[shajaki]

One could argue though: isn't that what Takara is generally for?

Cause I've been thinking about this. It's hard enough for HasTak to release a figure this size, so it must be even harder to release it twice. This has me thinking they'll never release him in G2 colors. We never did get a Titan Class Repaint Metrotitan....

[william-james88]

I wish it were standard practice for more of their figures that Hasbro offered premium editions for higher prices for collectors willing to pay for more. Because lord knows every figure they release has been stripped down from its full potential in order to hit a pricepoint for their retailers.

But this hobby of ours already has that standard practice in place since we have the Takara offerings.

They literally offer

premium editions for higher prices for collectors willing to pay for more

And the prices are most often even better than the SDCC premium. Really, with this kind of system in place in the collector's market, there is no reason Hasbro would change their entire system and resource allocation to create collector versions as well for every figure they produce.


Transformers United Bumblebee Gallery


Transformers United Rodimus Prime (Rodimus Convoy) Gallery


Transformers Adventures Ultra Magnus Gallery


Transformers Henkei Ironhide Gallery


Transformers Henkei Skywarp Gallery


Transformers Takara Tomy: Movie Advanced Nemesis Grimlock Gallery


Transformers Go! Gaidora Gallery

[Spanbauer]

Definitely, Takara-Tomy generally comes through with "premium" versions - which serves that market. But I do think it'd be cool to see Hasbro offering premium editions for collectors from time to time via the Hasbro Toy Shop. At this point who knows when the Takara-tomy Devastator will actually ship (Defensor's already dated as a November release and they haven't even shown us Devastator yet), so I'm happy to see we have at least one version of Devastator available this summer which is better than the retail edition.

[Sabrblade]

Transformers United Rodimus Prime (Rodimus Convoy) Gallery

Those are both Takara figures.

[megatronus]

Stop. Hammer time!

[rant]

We need to take a step back here - this isn't a matter of Takara premium/collector vs Hasbro mass market. It's Japanese market vs. American market. We tend to conflate the Japanese market with the collector market, but those figures are out in and produced for retail just like Hasbro's figures are. It's also not like Transformers are so expensive over there - the brick and mortar price of a deluxe is probably about the same as a deluxe state-side, maybe a bit more. It's the cost of importing and scarcity of state-side Takara product that drives prices up. But there's nothing inherently more premium about Beast Hunters Ultra Magnus vs TAV Ultra Magnus, or Classics Bumblebee vs United Bumblebee outside of the occasional extra paint app, and a mentality that often (and I would argue, irrationally) assigns greater value to decos featuring metallics and chrome. There are plenty of Hasbro figures that are by and large seen as the 'better' version (i.e. Generations Wheeljack) or, due to their not having a Takara analogue (i.e. Generations Skullgrin & Sky Shadow, etc.) are probably highly sought after in Japan.

That's not to say there aren't collector-directed figures in the main-line, but I do think we have to differentiate between the local retail markets Hasbro and Takara cater to and the purely collector markets that entities like TFCC and eHobby target.

[/rant]

[munkimus prime]

I need more shelf space just for Devastator to fit on. Finding room for Metroplex was hard enough. Now I need to find space for another Big Boy.

[Spanbauer]

Stop. Hammer time!

[rant]

We need to take a step back here - this isn't a matter of Takara premium/collector vs Hasbro mass market. It's Japanese market vs. American market. We tend to conflate the Japanese market with the collector market, but those figures are out in and produced for retail just like Hasbro's figures are. It's also not like Transformers are so expensive over there - the brick and mortar price of a deluxe is probably about the same as a deluxe state-side, maybe a bit more. It's the cost of importing and scarcity of state-side Takara product that drives prices up. But there's nothing inherently more premium about Beast Hunters Ultra Magnus vs TAV Ultra Magnus, or Classics Bumblebee vs United Bumblebee outside of the occasional extra paint app, and a mentality that often (and I would argue, irrationally) assigns greater value to decos featuring metallics and chrome. There are plenty of Hasbro figures that are by and large seen as the 'better' version (i.e. Generations Wheeljack) or, due to their not having a Takara analogue (i.e. Generations Skullgrin & Sky Shadow, etc.) are probably highly sought after in Japan.

That's not to say there aren't collector-directed figures in the main-line, but I do think we have to differentiate between the local retail markets Hasbro and Takara cater to and the purely collector markets that entities like TFCC and eHobby target.

[/rant]

So what you're saying is, it's not that Takara-Tomy is catering to the collector's market, but simply that they're willing to settle for slightly lower margins in order to release a product they can be proud of?

[megatronus]

So what you're saying is, it's not that Takara-Tomy is catering to the collector's market, but simply that they're willing to settle for slightly lower margins in order to release a product they can be proud of?

Who says TakaraTomy's margins are lower?

[Burn]

Can't you guys just start a thread to discuss the economics of Hasbro vs TakaraTomy instead of cluttering up multiple threads with the same discussion?