The Energon Pub

[Jaynz]

Let's be honest here, no matter WHAT you think of these two, the only reason (and I mean the ONLY reason) that they're being indoctrinated this year is to hype up the new movie coming out. There was absolutely no other thought in mind as to why this decision was made - it's pure marketing bullshit.

Actually, I'm going to take it a step further. Look at the "Iconic Autobots" they chose for this year as well? Ironhide and Ratchet? MAYBE Ironhide, but Ratchet? You mean Hot Rod, or even Hot Shot had less of an impact? Cheetor ring a bell? I'm sure this decision ALSO has NOTHING to do with these two being two of the leads in the new movie either...

Filthy whoring.

[Covenant]

What I hate is there are people who made the franchise successful in the first place. Furman, Flint Dille, who knows how many people who designed the toys and cartoons and books. People without whom there would be no Transfomrers today. Instead they give it to some guy who saw a property to fix his own sagging career with, or as he originally called it "a stupid toy movie".

Thank you. Could NOT have been said more truer, especially the Bay's words bit at the end, or better. Rock.

What I love is how quick people are to dismiss Bay's contributions because they think their heroes are better.

Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new.

[Jaynz]

Bay absolutely qualifies for your statement "without whom there would be no Transformers today" because without Bay we may be back in the dead days post-G2. Instead we're in the hayday of popularity, with a whole new generation of children buying toys and making memories.

Yes, here's a list of the non-existant 'dead days' of Transformers lines before Bay's movies came out. You may have heard of a couple:

Beast Wars
Beast Machines
Robots in Disguise
Armada
Energon

Only one of which didn't do well (Beast Machines).

[RiddlerJ]

What I hate is there are people who made the franchise successful in the first place. Furman, Flint Dille, who knows how many people who designed the toys and cartoons and books. People without whom there would be no Transfomrers today. Instead they give it to some guy who saw a property to fix his own sagging career with, or as he originally called it "a stupid toy movie".

What I love is how quick people are to dismiss Bay's contributions because they think their heroes are better.

Furman and Dille are great people and their past contributions were magnificient and they deserve all the respect they can get for doing something with the Transformers.

But their contributions pale in comparison to Michael Bay's. Do you know why?

Because neither of them have their name attached to the BILLIONS of dollars that are flooding into Paramount and Hasbro because of the movies today.

Bay absolutely qualifies for your statement "without whom there would be no Transformers today" because without Bay we may be back in the dead days post-G2. Instead we're in the hayday of popularity, with a whole new generation of children buying toys and making memories.

Like him or hate him, Bay's name is attached to that in a big way; whatever his reasons for doing so in the first place.

This is coming from someone who really enjoys Furman's work, and not a huge fan of Bay's or the Movieverse in general, but respect is given where it's due.

I'm not even that big a Furman fan. I just know that in the 30 or so years the brand has been around, people like him have definitely put more work into the franchise than someone like Bay who just jumped on and rode the wave. If that's the case, why not nominate Pat Lee who also could be said to have created a big reinterest in the brand, and who is pretty much reviled now by Transfans because of his antics.

I'm also pretty sure someone like Furman would appreciate it more than Bay who I honestly believe couldn't care less about something like this.

[Megatron Wolf]

Unless they're getting credit for ruining the franchise they dont deserve to be inducted. I keep forgetting Spielberg had a part in these movies, you think with him on board they wouldnt have sucked so bad. There are plenty of other people who have been involved in the franchise that deserve to be inducted before these two. And people wonder why ive lost faith in this franchise.

[Mkall]

Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new.

You're using a weird term that was never associated with Transformers before the latest movies: Popular Culture. It was never a pop-culture thing before the movies came out. Maybe in the 80's when it first aired, but certainly not since 1988 or so. If you want to thank anyone for keeping Transformers alive it would be the Japanese who kept Transformers going for 15 years while the US just imported it and dubbed over top of it and re-used the toy molds.

Please tell me where I'm dismissing everyone who came before Bay. I outright said I like Furman's work more than Bay's and I really hope Furman gets officially recognized in the near future along with Dille and others who formed the foundation. The Hall of Fame is in year two. There's plenty of years of life left and plenty of faces left to get the recognition they deserve. Unless of course the the "prophets" are right, in which case the Rapture will make this all a moot point

Like him or hate him, you cannot deny the fact he's taken Transformers to a new level of popularity, and has turned it into the - as you put it - POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE. You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.

Yes, here's a list of the non-existant 'dead days' of Transformers lines before Bay's movies came out. You may have heard of a couple:

Beast Wars
Beast Machines
Robots in Disguise
Armada
Energon

Only one of which didn't do well (Beast Machines).

I think you may have misinterpretted my point. I meant Post-G2, where there were no figures on the shelves and no one knew if there was ever going to be another TF Line. Except for after Beast Machines, which was another dead time, it's been pretty much a straight production of Transformers lines, give or take a few months for line changes.

[Burn]

Let's be honest here, no matter WHAT you think of these two, the only reason (and I mean the ONLY reason) that they're being indoctrinated this year is to hype up the new movie coming out. There was absolutely no other thought in mind as to why this decision was made - it's pure marketing bullshit.

Actually, I'm going to take it a step further. Look at the "Iconic Autobots" they chose for this year as well? Ironhide and Ratchet? MAYBE Ironhide, but Ratchet? You mean Hot Rod, or even Hot Shot had less of an impact? Cheetor ring a bell? I'm sure this decision ALSO has NOTHING to do with these two being two of the leads in the new movie either...

Filthy whoring.

It is marketing bullshit.
It is filthy whoring.

But that doesn't mean none of them don't deserve it.

There are a LOT of characters that deserve recognition. There are a LOT of behind the scenes people who deserve recognition.

But only so many can make it in each year. This year, they just decided to honour those who have had something to do with the movies.

Plain and simple. Don't like it? Good on ya. Won't change the fact that these people have contributed to the TF universe and helped bring those characters into our lives.

[Jaynz]

Like him or hate him, you cannot deny the fact he's taken Transformers to a new level of popularity, and has turned it into the - as you put it - POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE. You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.

The point is that IT ALREADY WAS A WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE that was ALREADY WORTH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. There are a lot of people who made that happen, after all. And, hell, I think Shia LaBouf deserves the nod a hell of a lot more than Spielberg that basically signed a couple of contracts and said "Yeah, Paramount wants this movie done. I need to talk to George about this Shia kid anyway for something else I'm doing."

And after "Revenge of the Fallen", I'm not so sure that I would think Bay deserves to be honored for much, really... Spielberg most certainly does not deserve it. And Ratchet? If it were Animated Ratchet, you may have something... but are you really going to tell me THAT was a worthy choice of 'most iconic Transformers characters of all time'?

I think you may have misinterpretted my point. I meant Post-G2, where there were no figures on the shelves and no one knew if there was ever going to be another TF Line. Except for after Beast Machines, which was another dead time, it's been pretty much a straight production of Transformers lines, give or take a few months for line changes.

Beast Machines flopped but it wasn't a 'dead time', and you most certainly DID try to say that there was 'nothing between G2 and Micheal Bay'. I'm not letting you backpedal out of an outright lie like that. Heck, you did it AGAIN with your claim that "we were just copying Japan" ... yet Beast Wars and Beast Machines were Canadian shows with American toys. It would take years for Japan to catch up.

I get that you're a fan of the movies, and more power to ya, but you do NOT get to make up your facts to support his ascension.

[Burn]

And Ratchet? If it were Animated Ratchet, you may have something... but are you really going to tell me THAT was a worthy choice of 'most iconic Transformers characters of all time'?

Ratchet in the old Marvel comics.

'nuff said.

[Covenant]

Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new. It was never a pop-culture thing before the movies came out.

You're using a weird term that was never associated with Transformers before the latest movies: Popular Culture.

That's actually the first denial of such of thing I've seen in my thirty years.

Maybe in the 80's when it first aired, but certainly not since 1988 or so.

So, going by this ill-fated theory, you can say (for mere example) that Abraham Lincoln was never president of the US. Maybe back when he served in office, but certainly not since Booth. I was unaware that a minute, or month, or decade of not being something suddenly means it never was, unless it is now, then whatever it was means nothing in comparison, because its now that says what it's always been. Apparently.

Yeah, that's some jinky logic there.

If you want to thank anyone for keeping Transformers alive it would be the Japanese who kept Transformers going for 15 years while the US just imported it and dubbed over top of it and re-used the toy molds.

Soooo how does this not count? And then why wouldn't someone in the Japanese end of things not deserve a spot in this TF Hall of Fame before a current movie director as well? So yes, a thanks to Japan, and then yes a thanks for the import/redub/repacking for release in another country. Can't be worldwide if you don't start jumping into different countries now can you.

Please tell me where I'm dismissing everyone who came before Bay. I outright said I like Furman's work more than Bay's and I really hope Furman gets officially recognized in the near future along with Dille and others who formed the foundation.

You're dismissing fellow fans statements that those who came before Bay have a right, most would agree even more so, to get a shot at the Hall of Fame. You're going on about 'like it or not he's a part of Transformers now' when I don't hear a whole lot of denial of that being that its obvious. What's being said is that those who created Transformers, wrote Transformers, illustrated Transformers, voiced Transformers, built Transformers and endeared Transformers before Michael Bay so much as directed his first tv commercial might just have a little more validity of recognition in a Transformers Hall of Fame prior to Bay getting a shot.

You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.

Actually, that's this debate. This one right here.

[Burn]

why wouldn't someone in the Japanese end of things not deserve a spot in this TF Hall of Fame before a current movie director as well? So yes, a thanks to Japan, and then yes a thanks for the import/redub/repacking for release in another country. Can't be worldwide if you don't start jumping into different countries now can you.

If memory serves me correctly ... a Japanese designer inducted last year.

[Seibertron]

Definitely thinking that Simon Furman is getting the short end of the stick here. I'm not trying to belittle Michael Bay and ultimately Steven Spielberg's contributions (and I think both are very worthy in their own rights), just thinking that Furman should've gotten a nod as well. Hopefully next year!

[Noideaforaname]

Just in time for the new movie!

Incidentally, I'm not sure if Bay would attend future HoF events. Let's face it, most other would-be Hall of Famers are a LOT more dedicated.

[Mkall]

Like him or hate him, you cannot deny the fact he's taken Transformers to a new level of popularity, and has turned it into the - as you put it - POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE. You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.

The point is that IT ALREADY WAS A WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE that was ALREADY WORTH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

Yes, and Bay expanded it even further than that. He singlehandedly increased Hasbro's Transformers revenue by 4 times in 2007.

I think you may have misinterpretted my point. I meant Post-G2, where there were no figures on the shelves and no one knew if there was ever going to be another TF Line. Except for after Beast Machines, which was another dead time, it's been pretty much a straight production of Transformers lines, give or take a few months for line changes.[/quote]

Beast Machines flopped but it wasn't a 'dead time', and you most certainly DID try to say that there was 'nothing between G2 and Micheal Bay'. I'm not letting you backpedal out of an outright lie like that. Heck, you did it AGAIN with your claim that "we were just copying Japan" ... yet Beast Wars and Beast Machines were Canadian shows with American toys. It would take years for Japan to catch up.[/quote]
Now this is getting pedantic...

Dead time is time between toy lines. Unlike today, there were YEARS before a line ended and a new line began, these times were between G2 and Beast Wars and Beast Machines and Robots in disguise. To suggest that I'm ignoring everything between G2 and Michael Bay is insulting my intelligence and my 600+ figure collection of Beast Wars, RiD, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Classics, Universe and other miscellaneous figures. Twist my words if you want, but I've laid out my intent with them and you can either take it at face value or see some hidden meaning that somehow contradicts your viewpoint; I don't care.

Now it seems I have to explain my statements about Japan... You know what? I don't have to. The proof is there in Car Robots (Robots in Disguise), Micron Legend (Armada), Superlink (Energon), and Galaxy Force (Cybertron). It took 7 years between the end of Beast Machines and the Beginning of Animated for a Transformers show to be produced for American audiences. Tack onto that the years that Transformers only exists in Japan pre-Beast Wars and there's a number higher than 15.

I get that you're a fan of the movies, and more power to ya, but you do NOT get to make up your facts to support his ascension.

I don't make up facts, I'm just not used to explaining them all in this much detail. Actually I'm not a huge fan of the movies. I'm simply arguing Bay's impact on the franchise. I get that you DON'T like the movies, but don't let personal oppinion cloud your judgement.

Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new. It was never a pop-culture thing before the movies came out.

You're using a weird term that was never associated with Transformers before the latest movies: Popular Culture.

That's actually the first denial of such of thing I've seen in my thirty years.

It's just the fact I've NEVER seen that phrase mixed in with the Transformers Brand before the Bay films. If it's out there and I've been too blind to see it, I do retract this statement with apologies.

Now that this has been suitibly derailed, if you guys have any responses to this, please PM me, or add me to MSN (see the icon below my name) and I'd be more than happy to discuss my oppinions and viewpoints with an open mind.

[Deathsanras]

That's.... brave.

[Master Renegade]

My initial knee-jerk reaction was that this was a horrible decision and that neither of them deserved this. Michael Bay's movies are so horribly bad that I feel he should be executed for war crimes. (Watching one of his movies is torture.) I've also lost all respect for Steven Spielberg since he keeps saying that these films are actually good. How can someone deserve to be in a Hall of Fame when their work is garbage?

After thinking about it, it's simple: They're famous, and this is a Hall of FAME. Looked at that way, I can't argue that their inclusion isn't justified, regardless of the obviously marketing-based timing.

[OlivusPrime]

There's no point complaining about Bay "ruining" the franchise, because just as other people have said, he rejuvenated it. I'm one of the many, many fans who joined the fanbase when the movies were released, and whether G1 fans hated the new movies or not, it was pretty much the kick-ass designs that led me into the franchise, before the plot and characters grew on me. Frankly, without the new movies, plenty of fans wouldn't be here and the Unicron Trilogy would probably be still giving people nightmares.

I reckon Bay and Spielberg should be inducted this year, before the movies become a thing of the past. Frank Welker still voices Megatron today, so it's no big loss that his induction will be put off by one year.

[JRFitzpatrick7]

When I was a kid, a wee lad, I watched Beast Wars season 1. Thought it was cool but I liked Reboot better. as a kid I never saw seasons 2 and 3. Then came Beast Wars, I hated the designs, I didn't recognize them as Transformers. I think I saw 2 or 3 episodes before I stopped trying to watch it. Robots in Disguise brought me back somewhat, but again, my interest waivered and I changed the channel. Armada really got me into Transformers again, I was taping episodes on my parents VCR and watching them until the tapes wore out. towards the final third of its run i began losing interest again, never watched Energon, same goes for Cybertron. It wasn't until the movies came out that my excitement came back. The movies really grabbed me. i bought every toy, i found out their were comic adaptations and prequels, had to have them. Every piece of literature i could get my hands on i got it. i own just about all of the movie toys and i love playing with them. From the movie comics i went backwards, found out about the Marvel comics and every Transformers comic that came after them would soon be mine (save for the Marvel UK books, they remain ever elusive). After the movies, I bought my first g1 figure. An Optimus Prime. then i got some classics figures, then i got the rest of them, then i got Universe 2.0, Masterpiecepicked up some beast wars too. I got one of the most complete Global Armada collections all at once. I've become the guy that preorders everything on BBTS, just to make sure i get them because i can't rely on my local chains. The Movies sucked me back into this franchise and I'm so freaking happy to be here. On Monday I arrived at my local Target to get the new DotM figures, it was 10:37 am. The shelves were empty. If an hour and a half after the store opens the sheves are empty, their doing something right. Asked a stock boy for assistance and he brought out fresh cases, barely got the card board flaps open before we dumped them into my shopping cart (he radioed the backroom to bring out more for the shelves). You may hate the designs, I freaking love them, to me this is what a truck would look like if you turned it into a humanoid form. The engineering in the toys is mind blowing. The advances they are making is incredible! we went from Cybertron Optimus prime that unfolds to 2007 movie Optimus Prime From there we got the raddest Optimus Prime ever, ROTF Prime. In 2 years they went from a mold that i thought was the most accurate representation of movie prime to one of my favorite Transformers toys ever. for me, these movies make it hard not to be a Transformers fan. Spielberg and Bay played an essential role in bringing me back to the franchise and opening my eyes to everything i had missed. And yes i know there were lighting guys and extras and actors and whoever else. Bay had a vision for what the movie should look like and i loved it. I thought they were both really fun movies. And ease up on Mkall, his post sums up everything that I am as a Transformers fan.

[griftimus prime]

this is a joke right?

[Jaynz]

And Ratchet? If it were Animated Ratchet, you may have something... but are you really going to tell me THAT was a worthy choice of 'most iconic Transformers characters of all time'?

Ratchet in the old Marvel comics.

'nuff said.

I considered that, actually, but I can't agree. The comics were very low-impact compared to the cartoon, and Ratchet barely featured in the latter. Even then, can I say that Ratchet made more of an impact than Galvatron in that comic? Or Shockwave? Nevermind more recent 'icon-powerful' characters like Hot Shot, Cheetor, Sideburn, or even Demolishor.

[Jaynz]

I agree that Shia should get it too. We can agree on that too. Maybe next year?

Well, that's progress.

Dead time is time between toy lines. Unlike today, there were YEARS before a line ended and a new line began, these times were between G2 and Beast Wars and Beast Machines and Robots in disguise.

And what I'm trying to tell you was that there wasn't that much dead time. We had one year between the end of G1 and G2 (and G1 lasted seven years!) There was only six months between the end of G2 and Beast Wars. And, aside from those gaps, we've never had down time in the brand. The total amount of 'dead time' for Transformers lines in the US equates to less than 18 months. And during THAT time, Japan and Europe continued on their own. In reality, there has not been a time that new Transformers wasn't being released, somewhere, in the 25 years since they were first released.

Tack onto that the years that Transformers only exists in Japan pre-Beast Wars and there's a number higher than 15.

So are you saying that when Japan was importing G1, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Transformers: Animated, they weren't actually getting Transformers? I can't accept that logic, particularly since this is a worldwide honor.

I get that you DON'T like the movies, but don't let personal oppinion cloud your judgement.

I didn't mind the first one, though I dislike the BayVerse aesthetic. The second movie is 110 minutes of my life that I really want back.

[Energon]

Michael Bay EDIT:(So, in keeping with the transformers theme, I can say spit if Bumblebee can leak lubricants on someone.) and Spielberg, NO NO NO NO NO NO The hasbro marketing team was responsible for the success. For a Hall of Fame, usually there is about 25 years of space before someone should get nominated. Give some other director a chance to do the Transformers movies then you can say if it was Bay or not. I say it is too soon. give someone else a crack at directing, someone who will give the Transformers more respect than pee jokes, balls, masterbation or drug references. A good movie does not need any of that. Thor was great in that respect.


The Transformers films may have had a financial impact on Hasbro but the movies are way too controversial to put any part of them in a hall of fame. One good movie and one crap movie does not boast hall of fame noteriety. These movies are way too new and Bay hasn't earned any respect that would put him as a desirable candidate.

Honor those who have made significant contributions within their career to the franchise first. David Kaye, Simon Furman,Susan Blu, David Wise, the people that have designed some amazing toy transformations like Aaron Archer, the illustrators for the comics. I would put all these people first before any Movie related persona.

The sad thing is that I have a Primus and an HoF ticket. I am not going to come out for this. EDIT cancelled the ticket today. Woot!

[Noideaforaname]

To quote someone from TFW

The ironic thing is for every childhood that apparently got ruined, many more were made, how many kids would of got into Transformers soley based on the movies?

While quality is debatable, it is NOT the sole deciding factor for the Hall of Fame. You cannot deny the incredible success of the movies, nor the massive boost they gave both the Transformers brand and Hasbro as a whole. For that, Bay and Spielberg absolutely deserve getting in.


Besides, this is probably the only time Bay can be bothered to appear at one of these things.

[Dagon]

I had to see this thread because this was more or less what I was expecting to see based on this news.
I think it's a cool honor, but I do think Furman and Dille and some of the originators should have been honored before guys that are 'responsible' for a 'resurgence'.

What eternally blows my mind is that people who are expressing opinions to the contrary of Bay/Speilberg being uber terrific are being roared down. Stay classy everyone, and remember that total victory requires the elimination of differing thought. Remember how we all cheered against Megatron in Beast Machines because he wanted to eliminate the potential for disagreement, and that was tyrannical and wrong?

Honestly though, congrats to those two.

[Energon]

Transformers the Movie aka Bayformers is way too new to have anyone from that Genre to be in a Hall of Fame. The Hasbro Marketing Team deserve the credit for the Movie success and Not Bay.




For the record, (Mkall) Simon Furman did consult on the Movie. Look at his IMDB page. But that is not why he should be inducted into the HoF. He should be for all the success he has had with it.