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[olokin]

Batman wins. He is just too resourceful to be beaten by DD. With that utility belt of his, he can use a doodad to confuse DD's radar sense and his other heightened senses.

[Evank_Horizon]

Why the hell does DD covers his ears? Doesn't he realise it lowers his advantage? The same goes with Batman. (at a lower rate) Try trusting your ears when they're covered with rubber.

Why DD covers his ears has always perplexed me but I would guess its because his hearing may be too sencetive in a fight so he needs to de-fuse the sound a bit.

Bats on the other had has some inhansed sound reciverse in the ear peace of his mask.So its not a disadvantage.

People wear helmets and stuff over their ears because your enemy could try to rip them off.or hit them if they are internall.Since when did wearing a helmet or hood ever impair hearing anyway.

Would you wear a helmet that covered your head and face but not your ears?

On the fight with gadget/without gadget

If batman wears it hes a target cos hes so obviously there by his absense
Without hes visable to Daredevil cos hes a big swishing target.
so hes screwed either way.

Bat's mask isn't realy a helmet and I doubt it is of much protection. Just look at how it hangs when it's not on his head. And it seems Robin can do very well with just a small mask around his eyes.

:-? I have always seen Marvel as a more over the top and flashy fantasy. And DC's realm as a more close to human reality.

Do you mind if I ask you how old you are????The reason I as is that all the comic book fans I have encountered over the years born in or after the 80's seem to view Dc's universe as more realality based and Marvel as flamboyante as you do.

And its very funny to me because most comic fans that were reading the early 70's and trew the 80's [myself included] believe the oppisit.

When I started to have money of my own to buy transformers it was late G1 then G2 on the shelves. And I was a teenager when Beastwars came out.

There are some exeptions to that of course. That's why Batman being one of the best fighter in DC doesn't mean much to me. The same goes to being one of the most intelligent person of either universe. (in reference to the spidey vs. batman topic) When comparing heroes from different realms you have to compare similar situations for both.

I do the same and when I try to compair characters power levels and fighting skills I try to use a slidding scale.

So in my mind if Bats ranks in at number 2 and DD at number 8 of their respective universes then Bats still outclasses DD by a considereable margin.

When trying to compair the intelligence of characters in both universes its a different thing.

While saying that Marvels smartest hero is smarter then DC's smartest hero may be true......the same can not be said about the smartest people in each universe.

Some of the smartest people in the DC universe are not heroes at all and I have seen nothing in my 30 years of comic book reading that trully suggests that the people of the DC u are inhearantly less intelligent then a Marvel counterpart.

Personally I think Marvel's intelligence peak is just plain ridiculous. Mr. Fantastic is a good example of that. Ridiculous. His intelligence doesn't come from any super human power. How could a person so young know so much without ending up in an asylum? Only some autists can learn so much yet it's not always clear wetter or not they understand what they learn or not.

I must admit I haven't seen much more of DD than the movie and 90's spidey's episodes. I don't have much time to read comics. Neither do I have the money to follow all the series going on.

I don't think Batman's sence of balance and perception can match DD's. DD's balance and perception are more inate than Batman's. But on the other hand I don't know how both men's fighting skills and experience compare. DD has beaten very gifted and skilled martial martists.

Batman powers of perception and sence of sence of balance are only at peak human capasity while DD's are slightly super human.

But DD's ablities are the result of cheamical mutation and are continjent on his enimiy not picking up on them.

Bat's ablities are the result of 13 years of training with every living martial arts master in the DC u as well as researching every knowen fighting skill knowen to man.Add to that almost 15 years on on the job feild work.

Toped with being one of the worlds best detectives it would be very eazy for him to notice how DD's fights and come up with a way to counter it.

Now I'm not saying that its going to be a eazy fight.....I'm just saying that Bat's would ultimatly win

From the little I know, DD hasn't lost his time either. But I guess you're right.

Please forgive the bad spelling

Oh I'll forgive you. To tell you the truth I didn't understand all what was said in BW when it came out because my skills in english weren't good enough back then.

[Shadowman]

I think there's one thing we're all forgetting: Sense of smell!

If this is in the Batcave, Matt has a big advantage on sense of smell. If Bats just came back from a patrol, he's likely going to be really sweaty. If he's about to go out, he's probably going to have cologne on or something. That would give Matt something to lock onto.

Hm...now I'm reminded of that Venture Bros. episode where they realize they can sue their enemies for harassment...

[Evank_Horizon]

I think there's one thing we're all forgetting: Sense of smell!

If this is in the Batcave, Matt has a big advantage on sense of smell. If Bats just came back from a patrol, he's likely going to be really sweaty. If he's about to go out, he's probably going to have cologne on or something. That would give Matt something to lock onto.

Hm...now I'm reminded of that Venture Bros. episode where they realize they can sue their enemies for harassment...

Good one!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Why the hell does DD covers his ears? Doesn't he realise it lowers his advantage? The same goes with Batman. (at a lower rate) Try trusting your ears when they're covered with rubber.

Why DD covers his ears has always perplexed me but I would guess its because his hearing may be too sencetive in a fight so he needs to de-fuse the sound a bit.

Bats on the other had has some inhansed sound reciverse in the ear peace of his mask.So its not a disadvantage.

People wear helmets and stuff over their ears because your enemy could try to rip them off.or hit them if they are internall.Since when did wearing a helmet or hood ever impair hearing anyway.

Would you wear a helmet that covered your head and face but not your ears?

On the fight with gadget/without gadget

If batman wears it hes a target cos hes so obviously there by his absense
Without hes visable to Daredevil cos hes a big swishing target.
so hes screwed either way.

Bat's mask isn't realy a helmet and I doubt it is of much protection. Just look at how it hangs when it's not on his head. And it seems Robin can do very well with just a small mask around his eyes.

Well according to DC it's a bullet proof helmet even if it looks like a extention of his cape.

Do you mind if I ask you how old you are????The reason I as is that all the comic book fans I have encountered over the years born in or after the 80's seem to view Dc's universe as more realality based and Marvel as flamboyante as you do.

And its very funny to me because most comic fans that were reading the early 70's and trew the 80's [myself included] believe the oppisit.

When I started to have money of my own to buy transformers it was late G1 then G2 on the shelves. And I was a teenager when Beastwars came out.

Well that at least explains your way of viewing things to me.

Personally I think Marvel's intelligence peak is just plain ridiculous. Mr. Fantastic is a good example of that. Ridiculous. His intelligence doesn't come from any super human power. How could a person so young know so much without ending up in an asylum? Only some autists can learn so much yet it's not always clear wetter or not they understand what they learn or not.

Agreed.

From the little I know, DD hasn't lost his time either. But I guess you're right.

Thanks.

Oh I'll forgive you. To tell you the truth I didn't understand all what was said in BW when it came out because my skills in english weren't good enough back then.

Thanks again

I think there's one thing we're all forgetting: Sense of smell!

If this is in the Batcave, Matt has a big advantage on sense of smell. If Bats just came back from a patrol, he's likely going to be really sweaty. If he's about to go out, he's probably going to have cologne on or something. That would give Matt something to lock onto.

Actually I did think of it but thought it would be a eazy one for Bruce to overcome if he realilised that it was a factor in the battle.

[AxiomScion]

Truth be told I'm hard pressed to think of a scenario where DD could beat Bats.

In lite of the way both characters have been written in the last few years I would say the fight would go to Bats.

Given how Marvel had neutered Juggernaut over the years I can see the same thing happen to DD. Murdock hasn't had the good writer love of the 80s since the late 90s.

Simply put if what has been written is true and all things in both universe's are equal then Batman is the 2nd or 3rd best fighter in the world of DC.

I think that DD was ranked in the upper half of the top 10 of Marvel best fighters.

I'ld like to see a link to the list if possible. It's not that I doubt your Klingon honor, I just want to confirm who else I think would be above him on the list.

If I'm right marvels top fighter list has members who hardly should count as peak human while DC had a 16 year old girl out fight Batman because she can read his moves. I'm thinking DD can pull of something close with his senses and radar

If the ranking scales of both universes are the same [ and I know that a big IF ] Then DD cant match Bats.

A real good fight would be Captain America vs Batman.

I'ld have to disagree here. Cap is likely listed as Marvel's top fighter and just ain't human. Cap claimed to be peak human but he lied. Curling 800pd with one arm makes me think he can bench a ton or two. Being able to keep up with Spidey or Wolverine on foot is easily faster than 35 mph. These three can each perform at there peak for over a day (I think spidey got a boost a while back). Wolverine does all this with 50 to 100pd of metal on his bones. For Cap to be a match for Wolverine he can't be peak human.I think Bat's fighting Cap would be closer to Cap fighting 90's Quicksilver.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Given how Marvel had neutered Juggernaut over the years I can see the same thing happen to DD. Murdock hasn't had the good writer love of the 80s since the late 90s.

Agreed.

I'ld like to see a link to the list if possible. It's not that I doubt your Klingon honor, I just want to confirm who else I think would be above him on the list.

I'll look for something but I cant make any promosiss.It was something I saw a few years back.

I can tell you that some of the guys on the list didnt make sence to me and I can also tell you some of the guys that out ranked DD but not in the order they had.

Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Taskmaster, Marvel's master of Kung Fu [I forgot his name] and Ironfist is all I can remember right now..

If I'm right marvels top fighter list has members who hardly should count as peak human while DC had a 16 year old girl out fight Batman because she can read his moves. I'm thinking DD can pull of something close with his senses and radar

I guess your right about that.

I'ld have to disagree here. Cap is likely listed as Marvel's top fighter and just ain't human. Cap claimed to be peak human but he lied. Curling 800pd with one arm makes me think he can bench a ton or two.

Was that "Curling 800pd" also in the dialog or was it just in the art????

I ask because just last year in the pages of Batman.....Batman was showen benching over 1600 lbs but I just chalked it up to a artist error.

Being able to keep up with Spidey or Wolverine on foot is easily faster than 35 mph. These three can each perform at there peak for over a day (I think spidey got a boost a while back). Wolverine does all this with 50 to 100pd of metal on his bones. For Cap to be a match for Wolverine he can't be peak human.I think Bat's fighting Cap would be closer to Cap fighting 90's Quicksilver.

Well most of the Marvel heroes have been getting some upgrades in streangh and power of the last 15 years or so.....so it would be a hard one to debate.

But Marvel was up untill his death saying that Cap was still only at peak human levels when it came to his streanght.So I'm sticking with that

[AxiomScion]

I'll look for something but I cant make any promosiss.It was something I saw a few years back.

I appreciate it. I've looked through google a few days on this.

I can tell you that some of the guys on the list didn't make sense to me and I can also tell you some of the guys that out ranked DD but not in the order they had.

Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Taskmaster, Marvel's master of Kung Fu [I forgot his name] and Ironfist is all I can remember right now..

Frankly cap is Cap, with 30-50 years of combat experience depending (i forget).
Wolverine with his memory intact probably has more exp than cap.
I think I can follow why a Norse deity that's been fighting for over 100 years might be a good fighter. He's spared with Cap too.
Taskmaster is like that Naruto copycat ninja but came first and he's copied most of the best for over 10 years now.
Ironfist is marvel's green hornet nod to Bruce.
And the master of kungfu had to get his name some how.

The ones I'ld count as similar to the DC list are Ironfist, master of kungfu, and maybe Taskmaster would count. If Wildcat were on DC's list then DD would at least be above him and Nitewing. Is Slade, Bane, or Green arrow on the DC list?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I'll look for something but I cant make any promosiss.It was something I saw a few years back.

I appreciate it. I've looked through google a few days on this.

I can tell you that some of the guys on the list didn't make sense to me and I can also tell you some of the guys that out ranked DD but not in the order they had.

Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Taskmaster, Marvel's master of Kung Fu [I forgot his name] and Ironfist is all I can remember right now..

Frankly cap is Cap, with 30-50 years of combat experience depending (i forget).
Wolverine with his memory intact probably has more exp than cap.
I think I can follow why a Norse deity that's been fighting for over 100 years might be a good fighter. He's spared with Cap too.
Taskmaster is like that Naruto copycat ninja but came first and he's copied most of the best for over 10 years now.
Ironfist is marvel's green hornet nod to Bruce.
And the master of kungfu had to get his name some how.

The ones I'ld count as similar to the DC list are Ironfist, master of kungfu, and maybe Taskmaster would count. If Wildcat were on DC's list then DD would at least be above him and Nitewing. Is Slade, Bane, or Green arrow on the DC list?

Dc's tope 10 list had from what I can remember [ in no particular order ] Batman ,Deathstroke,Batgirl, Promethuse [spelling] the Karatie kid and a few others that I just cant remember right now.

Come to think of it it may have been a Wizard list.

[AxiomScion]

Prometheus seems to correlate with Prodigy or maybe Taskmaster in terms of why they rank on the list.

I'm pretty sure Batgirl's parents each made the list seeing as one of them taught her (and Batman) while the other could beat her (and Batman) until recently.

deathstroke fights better than nightwing
deadpool fights better than winter soldier

I could try and search with wizard, it's easier to find a tier list of abilities, strength, or speed but reference combat or fighting and I get a ton of marvel and DC video games and reviews