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Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

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Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Scaleface » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:24 am

Whereas most Henkei/Classics KOs are obviously KOs, I thought I might warn people that some company has started to product replica Henkei toys. They sell for about $30 each. I've seen Crystal Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp, and the clear Henkei Mirage and they are IN PACKAGE!

Additionally there is a KO version of Botcon Mirage. Luckily you can tell the original from a KO in that the KO has no rub sign.

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Of course for thoe who want these hard-to-get toys and don't mind KOs, it's a real deal.
Last edited by Scaleface on Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicans being produced - buyer beware.

Postby kirbenvost » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:59 am

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Is there a way to tell the fakes from the real thing with Thundercracker and Skywarp?
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicans being produced - buyer beware.

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:03 pm

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Aw, crap... Is there no sanctity left in the collecting world?! :sad:

Then again, Henkei Thundercracker did have lousy QC. If the KO is actually of better quality... No no! Bad Bunny! :BANG_HEAD:
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby funklizard » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:56 pm

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Scaleface wrote:Of course for thoe who want these hard-to-get toys and don't mind KOs, it's a real deal.

Sure. But this appears to cross the line between a simple "knock off" and an outright counterfeit. If they're that close in appearance to the originals, my concern is with sellers who either disingenuously or naively sell these as the Real Thing.

How can these counterfeit versions of Skywarp, Thundercracker, and clear Mirage be identified? It's certainly not obvious (to me) from your picture.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby OptiMagnus » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:18 pm

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Wait...so those pics are the actual KOs? With TakaraTomy logos? That makes no sense.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Scaleface » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:49 am

Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby OptiMagnus » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:07 pm

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Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Wow these are really close. I've never seen them with the fake packaging like this. The closest I've seen are the "Transformers Revenge of the Allen" figures :lol:
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Scaleface » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:26 pm

There have been "replica" knockoffs before, lots of them, but they are usuauly G1 toys. Never something this recent.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby funklizard » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:12 pm

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Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Not cool.

I hope that someone with the means to create a pictorial comparison of these counterfeits to known legitimate figures does so in the near future. This development is pretty unsettling for someone who recently purchased these figures on eBay (and did not pay knock-off prices).

I do not think legitimate sellers should be trafficking in these items--even when noting they are knock-offs. Once they're out there, it's just too easy for them to be resold as the real thing. I'd like to think that TakaraTomy would take some action in cases like this; unfortunately, I imagine there's very little they can do as it's probably very difficult to track down the actual counterfeiters.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby bvzxa » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:05 pm

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I'm going to take this story with a grain of salt. this could be damaging to trying to find the real thing. Is there a link to KO Toys stating they are selling these?

I agree with Jeelze that the QC for Henkei TC was downright deplorable. I will bit the bullet and go for a Botcon TC.

I wish they made a Henkei Wildrider like that. It owuld make the value of the other one go down a bit in time for when I get my Shadow Scythe set.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby OptiMagnus » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:21 pm

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funklizard wrote:
Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Not cool.

I hope that someone with the means to create a pictorial comparison of these counterfeits to known legitimate figures does so in the near future. This development is pretty unsettling for someone who recently purchased these figures on eBay (and did not pay knock-off prices).

I do not think legitimate sellers should be trafficking in these items--even when noting they are knock-offs. Once they're out there, it's just too easy for them to be resold as the real thing. I'd like to think that TakaraTomy would take some action in cases like this; unfortunately, I imagine there's very little they can do as it's probably very difficult to track down the actual counterfeiters.

Yeah I would think TakaraTomy would not be very happy about this. This is really not cool that someone can just get away with this crap. It's not cool that they did it in the first place. Damn bootleggers! :BOOM:
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby El Duque » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:23 pm

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bvzxa wrote:I'm going to take this story with a grain of salt. this could be damaging to trying to find the real thing. Is there a link to KO Toys stating they are selling these?

I agree with Jeelze that the QC for Henkei TC was downright deplorable. I will bit the bullet and go for a Botcon TC.

I wish they made a Henkei Wildrider like that. It owuld make the value of the other one go down a bit in time for when I get my Shadow Scythe set.


yes KOToys is selling them, here's the link: http://www.kotoys.com/kotoys.php?cat=Henkei

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Yeah I would think TakaraTomy would not be very happy about this. This is really not cool that someone can just get away with this crap. It's not cool that they did it in the first place. Damn bootleggers! :BOOM:


To be honest I don't think Has/Tak/Tomy really cares that much. They've already made their money off of those figures, and they could care less about secondary market values. Sure if someone ask them publicly in a Q&A at a convention how they feel about KO's they will give the standard legal answer, they aren't going to encourage it, but I doubt they do that much to stop it. The amount of money that it would cost them to track down and take legal action against KO companies is probably considerably more than any lost profits they incur from them.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Scaleface » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:38 am

I've already seen these for sale at KOtoys.com chimungmung.com and ebay being sold as KOs (they tell you honestly in the description). I did see one seller on ebay who was from china and selling the Thundercrackers for $40, he's suspect to me of selling KOs as the real thing.
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Buyer Beware: New Knock-Off's of BotCon Mirage and Henkei Ghost Starscream

Postby DevastaTTor » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:22 am

Seibertron.com member Scaleface has posted a warning to Transformers collectors that there is a new supply of very accurate knock-offs entering the market of Henkei "Ghost" Starscream and BotCon clear Mirage along with other clear versions of Thundercracker, Skywarp, and Mirage. To add to the deception, all of these figures come in packaging that is nearly identical to that of recent Henkei releases. Scaleface writes:

Scaleface wrote:Whereas most Henkei/Classics KOs are obviously KOs, I thought I might warn people that some company has started to product replica Henkei toys. They sell for about $30 each. I've seen Crystal Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp, and the clear Henkei Mirage and they are IN PACKAGE!

Additionally there is a KO version of Botcon Mirage. Luckily you can tell the original from a KO in that the KO has no rub sign.

Of course for thoe who want these hard-to-get toys and don't mind KOs, it's a real deal.


The images from KOToys.com he includes in his post show just how good these new replicas are. Please use caution when purchasing these figures in the future, especially if you buy them through auction sites or online trading forums.

Thanks to Scaleface for the heads up!

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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby ShardFenix » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:35 am

as a poor college student i have to say knock offs are a pretty sweet deal.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Blackstreak » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:57 am

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those KOs look really good. For those of you who can't tell the KOs from the real deal understand one thing: there are no 'clear versions' or 'ghost' Classics Thundercracker or Skywarp. Aside from that, I never know where to get my hands on these things so I don't worry.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Rated X » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:37 am

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Damn...sounds like I wasted 300 bucks. I mean, Im glad to have the real ones but I fully condone bootlegs. This is a good way to stick it to the people who take 1 dollar worth of plastic, put it in a 12 dollar mold and flip it for 100 bucks by making them in limited quanity as a gimmick to jack up the price. Im not saying they can match Hasbro pound for pound in capital income, but dammit They could of made as many Thundercrackers and Skywarps as they did Grimlocks and Astrotrains to bring the price down to a fair 50 bucks. Henkei brought this on upon themselves by making the choices they did on limited production for certain figures.

But since I already bought all these, I hope they use the mold to give us the rainmakers and Sunstorm. I wonder why Henkei never did a version of Acid Storm with G1 markings instead of camoflauge ??? I woyuld have bought it in a heartbeat.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Counterpunch » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:08 am

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Rated X wrote:Henkei brought this on upon themselves by making the choices they did on limited production for certain figures.


No...that's not even remotely correct.

Henkei Skywarp and Thundercracker were made to order.

Meaning that they put out the order for them ahead of time and allowed the number of people who desired the toy to pre-order. The production run was then set somewhat above that number so that everyone who wanted one, got one. Then there were extras (that sat in retailers hands for almost a year) for people to buy at a later point.

The price for the figures was figured by the unit cost by order. It would have been cheaper if more people ordered.

Now, do you still want to blame Takara for the cost? Or should you look at what is essentially a market price and not be so upset about it?
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Dead Metal » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:11 am

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Rated X wrote:Damn...sounds like I wasted 300 bucks. I mean, Im glad to have the real ones but I fully condone bootlegs. This is a good way to stick it to the people who take 1 dollar worth of plastic, put it in a 12 dollar mold and flip it for 100 bucks by making them in limited quanity as a gimmick to jack up the price. Im not saying they can match Hasbro pound for pound in capital income, but dammit They could of made as many Thundercrackers and Skywarps as they did Grimlocks and Astrotrains to bring the price down to a fair 50 bucks. Henkei brought this on upon themselves by making the choices they did on limited production for certain figures.

But since I already bought all these, I hope they use the mold to give us the rainmakers and Sunstorm. I wonder why Henkei never did a version of Acid Storm with G1 markings instead of camoflauge ??? I woyuld have bought it in a heartbeat.

Henkei was Takaras version of the Classics line, it was a general release line. Also Thundercracker and Skywarp where both store exclusives and were produced according to how many where pre-ordered and they only cost 5 dollars more than the regular Henkei line of figures.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby NuclearConvoy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:15 am

LOL, I have BotCon Mirage and I've never even opened him up... I wonder what he goes for these days?

Also, it may just be the lighting, but KO BotCon Mirage looks to be made of slightly lighter blue plastic than Real BotCon Mirage.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Rated X » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:39 am

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I get what you guys are saying. But I just dont agree with the idea of "special release". A release is as special as you wanna make it. Henkei went out of their way to make them "exclusive". That was their choice, not the fans. Nobody complained about not being able to get an Astrotrain, Grimlock, or Bumblebee from the classics because they made enough in the first place. When the fans called out for Skywarp and Thundercracker, they should have just gone for the motherload. This "special release" thing was the way somebody wanted it, on purpose. Thats my issue.

Needless to say I stepped up to the plate and bought them all at Botcon. Im not cheap, just rational. Now if we could just get those other 2 Rainmakers :D
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Scaleface » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:56 am

Blackstreak wrote:those KOs look really good. For those of you who can't tell the KOs from the real deal understand one thing: there are no 'clear versions' or 'ghost' Classics Thundercracker or Skywarp. Aside from that, I never know where to get my hands on these things so I don't worry.


The story text from Seibertron is WRONG, the KO Thundercracker and Skywarp are NOT CLEAR. They are solid, just like the real thing.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Flashwave » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:49 am

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Rated X wrote:I get what you guys are saying. But I just dont agree with the idea of "special release". A release is as special as you wanna make it. Henkei went out of their way to make them "exclusive". That was their choice, not the fans. Nobody complained about not being able to get an Astrotrain, Grimlock, or Bumblebee from the classics because they made enough in the first place. When the fans called out for Skywarp and Thundercracker, they should have just gone for the motherload. This "special release" thing was the way somebody wanted it, on purpose. Thats my issue.

Needless to say I stepped up to the plate and bought them all at Botcon. Im not cheap, just rational. Now if we could just get those other 2 Rainmakers :D


There's a similar issue in the Model Train world, only it's universal to almost EVERYTHING. It is sad, and frustrating, because EVERYTHING has to be pre-ordered, without even so much as a review to look at, or you have to pray yor store of choice buys extra or can hold it until you pay for it, which gets interesting when there's everything else to be reserved too. A lot of places have to do it though, because what you DON'T want is excess product that don't sell. I don't know exactly why they did it for SW, it may be that TC they were trying to counter the rarity of Botcon out of ploiteness, and maybe they were testing the market either for future limited releases or to see just how many people wanted Seekers. Like a census, if you don't speak to the right person, your number isn't counted and you don't end up winning.

It sucks though, don't it?
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby Dead Metal » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:47 pm

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Rated X wrote:I get what you guys are saying. But I just dont agree with the idea of "special release". A release is as special as you wanna make it. Henkei went out of their way to make them "exclusive". That was their choice, not the fans. Nobody complained about not being able to get an Astrotrain, Grimlock, or Bumblebee from the classics because they made enough in the first place. When the fans called out for Skywarp and Thundercracker, they should have just gone for the motherload. This "special release" thing was the way somebody wanted it, on purpose. Thats my issue.

Needless to say I stepped up to the plate and bought them all at Botcon. Im not cheap, just rational. Now if we could just get those other 2 Rainmakers :D

I think you're confusing henkei with a company, it's not it's just the Japanese version of the classics line, intended for the Japanese market at normal Japanese prices.
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Re: Henkei and Botcon toy replicas being produced - buyer beware.

Postby OptiMagnus » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:15 pm

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I still can't believe how close these things are to the real ones. Insanity.
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