Generations Wheeljack and Thundercracker revealed

Sexy.

He looks awesome, like the bastard child of the Henkei and the Classics version. And since there's a big chance that he'll be of the same quality as Thrust and Dirge, I'll likely get him, and Universe Starscream and Skywarp when he gets made, damn henkei and Classics Seekers in my collection?

It Is Him wrote:Generations Thundercracker will not ruin Botcon forever. There is no slippery slope.

that is a conclusion, not an argument.

a conclusion with nothing to back it up. You would be surprised how even a show as large as botcon can be just a few bad choices from not making a profit. the overhead is ridiculously high, its a big risk business wise.

doesnt matter now as nothing has happened yet. I am curious to see what the botcon landscape will look like down the road if this becomes common.

Boy am I pissed that SE Overkill was released. That really ruined forever the customization classes at Botcon. Now no one wants to attend those. Funpub might as well pack their bags and move on to something bigger and better.

Well, this has made my holiday season jollier than ever. I have been waiting forever to get a Classics Wheeljack.






I just hope they make Skywarp and Ramjet for those who were idiots and did not buy them in classics 1, like me.

Sid Burn wrote:Think you are a little hung up on the term "crappy" from my post. That is simply my opinion.
There are many who see no difference at all that would sway them.

Not really, I respect all opinions, and I thought your term said something about what you thought of the quality of the Dirge I was finally able to purchase (my only Seeker as a kid, so that meant something special to me to get the update).

My point regarding what TFCC makes available (for those who are fortunate to be members) at Botcon (and otherwise) is that members should get the best of quality control, and that if they are getting something the general public will one day demand and receive (as with the Seekers), they are paying to get it NOW, not years later.

Plus, those wings on Botcon Thrust are a better mold in my opinion than the Takara and now Hasbro release. And I think you got Ramjet's bombs with that, which I wish would have come with all the general release coneheads. So in my eyes, you have something unique and superior to what I have, and that's what TFCC should be offering, aside from the NOW factor.

What I am trying to paint for all of you is a situation where the TFCC cannot draw demand for their exclusives and therefore cannot fund their conventions the way they can now. Everything that makes botcon special costs money, it doesnt happen by magic. The venues alone...

I am not saying this is happening right now, hopefully it wont ever happen. But releasing those seekers at retail is setting the precedent. Every situation no matter how great or horrible is set off by one action.

If it does go that way, and the TF community no longer has botcon the way it was, it will be a shame.
get it?

First, I think you meant to use this on me:

Second, I completely understand your point about the need for TFCC to have an ability to offer things that make TFCC worth while. But I would think what truly funds Botcon is the attendance more than the TFCC exclusives. As I expressed near the end of my post, it's a convention I would love to attend. It's an experience I would love to be a part of. To interact with the people who gave me something special as a child and make me feel good as an adult and give me something to share with the next generation, that's something special. To meet people from all over and talk about the hobby, the brand, the experience, the meaning, that's what conventions are about to me.

I will never forget meeting the Dark Detevtive team when they came to the Motorcity Comicon as part of their promotion tour. I had an opportunity to chat with the late great Marshall Rogers for over an hour because I went early on Friday instead of Sunday and hardly anyone was getting in line at that point. Spending time with him and Terry Austin talking about all things Batman was the greatest experience as a fan I have ever had. They could have brushed me off entirely, but they enjoyed the conversation, and they challenged me as a fellow fan, because that's what they were too at that point, artists who once worked on the comic and just recently were invited back to tell a sequel.

We talked about what it was like when they first worked with Steve Engelhart on Strange Apparitions, back when Batman was returning to his roots after the 60's run. I got to delve into what they thought Batman was about, who was the man, who was the mask? I was able to find a copy of their collection (SA TPB) for all of them to sign while I waited for Engelhart to arrive (he was running behind schedule). I got to hear what they thought of Batman:TAS and what it meant to have part of their story featured as one of the best episodes of the series, The Laughing Fish (with some minor changes to fit the TAS story). We pondered about what the new live action movie Batman Begins would be like, what our expectations were and how much we believed this movie would do what the others could not, bring the essence of Batman to the big screen.

And after Engelhart arrived and signed everything I had brought (and bought there), they took a picture with me that I will cherish for as long as I live and beyond (though I won't get to take that picture with me, but then neither will I get to take my TF's). I looked forward to their next tour for their next Dark Detective story, but it won't be the same because I won't be able to ask Marshall Rogers his thoughts on the new movies, though I think I already know how that conversation would have gone.

Conventions are more than collecting stuff, they are about experiencing something that only can happen by paying the price of admission. TFCC, as pointed out by others, needs to find ways to offer things that WILL remain unique to collectors, but without forcing Hasbro to hold back production on mainstream characters. Releasing the Seekers corrects a selfish mistake by TFCC and Hasbro. If any precedence has been set now and for the future, it's that TFCC does not have a right to monopolize the mainstream character market, be it for well known US characters, or well known Japanese (and European) characters, especially if the mold is made and ready for use. No fan should be prevented from acquiring a well known character from retail.

There are lots of characters and character concepts that TFCC has used and can use that will not see retail release, not due to lack of collector demand, but because there is not enough profitability to use/alter/make new molds to sell those characters. A great mold was made for Starscream that automatically should have led to the release of his fellow Seekers in that or the following line. The coneheads are no different, but TFCC did make exclusive wing molds that will never be available to outsiders, so at least Botcon Thrust will always be unique. They could have done that for Dirge, too. And they could have taken Cybertron Starscream and released all of the Seekers in that Cybertronian mold. Why haven't they? Why hasn't Hasbro done that with the voyager and/or legends class mold? Why did the paint scheme on Dirge look so terrible for the only other Seeker released as a Voyager from the Cybertron mold?

TFCC has options. Lots of options. Punch/Counterpunch and the entire G2 theme is something special. And just because we are getting Scourge on retail does not mean the Botcon Scourge and Sweeps are useless. They are unique, and the mold they used fits the characters a lot better than the new one. I'm glad I'll be able to get the new one, but I'm only getting one, not building an army. I've read that a number of people here will be keeping their Botcon Sweeps on display because of how good they are. If I had the Botcon Sweeps, I might not bother with the new Scourge at all.

If the future of Botcon is truly tied to the exclusive TFCC products, then Botcon is doomed to fail. But if Botcon is what I imagine it to be, the ultimate Transformers experience, then the only issue TFCC faces with its exclusives is choosing unique ways to represent characters that Hasbro and Takara won't. I think they've hit some home runs, like Alpha Trion, but they have also struck out, and Thundercracker is one of the latter.

(to check off the rest of what you said, I could care less about KOs, I dont sell items from my personal collection and the botcon seekers are certainly not unique any longer.)

Thrust is. As for the rest, again, it was selfish of TFCC to try and prevent everyone else from having them, especially since the brand would be dead without the retail market. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stuck in the past. Simple as that.

First-Aid wrote:Once again, being a cheap-ass pays off in the end. I refused to splurge on the Henkei. I refused to splurge on the BotCon set. Now I am rewarded for being cheap with the completion of my Classics seekers set...


...actually i was just too broke to get the other stuff...

Ditto.

Now if only Hasbro would release Botcon's Alpha Trion...

*crosses fingers*

Come to think of it...

In 25 years Hasbro will probably release completely new and updated versions of popular characters, even of characters they are currently updating?

Think about it.

How many people want voyager class Seekers? With the deluxe class G1 Seeker collection close to completion, we could be maybe a decade away from a completely new and larger mold with no undercarriage kibble.

And with TF:Prime soon to be rolling out its first complete season it won't be long before we get a toy line that represents that series' representations of characters who have existed in numerous forms since their initial Diaclone release, among the other original toy lines that Transformers based itself off of.

Does that mean my retail Seeker collection will be worthless? What about my Classics/Generation/RTS collection?

And what if the next set of movies features completely different engineering from anything we've seen before?

And does the possible alteration to BB Prime for the new movie make the one I just picked up no longer unique?

And don't get me started on Bumblebee. Just the concept car releases of the first movie, the alterations for the second with the gun arm, the new molding for the upper body with the shoulder cannons, and of BBBB, which has been updated to represent the movie update as well as whatever that new gimmick is...



I may as well stop collecting right now because it will all be redone bigger and better for the 50th anniversary.

Joetx wrote:

First-Aid wrote:Once again, being a cheap-ass pays off in the end. I refused to splurge on the Henkei. I refused to splurge on the BotCon set. Now I am rewarded for being cheap with the completion of my Classics seekers set...


...actually i was just too broke to get the other stuff...

Ditto.

Now if only Hasbro would release Botcon's Alpha Trion...

*crosses fingers*

I disagree with Hasbro releasing Botcon's Alpha Trion, that's their A3. They took a mold and found a way to make it better at a time when Hasbro was not remolding heads to match the repaints and name changes. That version belongs to them. If Hasbro does release an Alpha Trion (that has nothing to do with the movie-verse) I want a sleek mold that looks as much like the animation model as possible, in deluxe size. If there is a WFC Alpha Trion character model, I'll settle for that. But BCA3 is not a Seeker. So here's hoping for something else for us retail shoppers.