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Shadowman wrote:The movies were great, now prove my subjective viewpoint wrong. Otherwise, I will refer you to my previous statement of grow up.

Again you ask this when I have said repeatedly now that I never said that in the first place? And I am the one being asked to "grow up"?

A grown up would acknowledge that I already addressed this and even if he disagrees would not try to pretend I didn't.

tfparodies wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Basically, you can't tell the difference between "subjective" and "objective" and you think this somehow proves you right.

Thank you for this! That opinion of yours is 100% wrong.

That's not a matter of opinion, "Subjective" and "Objective" are literally opposites of one another, and you have repeatedly proven yourself incapable of recognizing this.

Shadowman wrote:The movies were great, now prove my subjective viewpoint wrong. Otherwise, I will refer you to my previous statement of grow up.

I'm just gonna quote this because you clearly opted to ignore it in favour of the other half of Shadowman's post.

I too would like to see you prove him wrong, not because I like seeing Shadowman proven wrong, but because I want to see you do it.

Shadowman wrote:That's not a matter of opinion, "Subjective" and "Objective" are literally opposites of one another, and you have repeatedly proven yourself incapable of recognizing this.

I am quite well aware, thank you. I still say your opinion, which you probably think is quite objective, is wrong here. I could ask you to prove it like some have asked me, but that's rather pointless.

I do, however, subjectively think some of the responses here have been quite funny even though their authors wouldn't think so. It's becoming more and more objective, though, which adds to the comedy.

Burn wrote:

Shadowman wrote:The movies were great, now prove my subjective viewpoint wrong. Otherwise, I will refer you to my previous statement of grow up.

I'm just gonna quote this because you clearly opted to ignore it in favour of the other half of Shadowman's post.

I too would like to see you prove him wrong, not because I like seeing Shadowman proven wrong, but because I want to see you do it.

I might have to start counting the times you guys ask this.

And I am not sure why you chose to quote what you did.

tfparodies wrote:

Burn wrote:Whether the movies were good or bad is personal opinion and there is no right or wrong.

Not entirely true, as another fallacy that pervades is that somehow opinions can't be wrong.

Why would you bring this up if you can't actually prove anyone's opinion wrong, I wonder?

Shadowman wrote:Why would you bring this up if you can't actually prove anyone's opinion wrong, I wonder?

Perhaps a better question is, if you are still arguing with me about opinions that you said this in regards to opinions:

Shadowman wrote:Sometimes they can be wrong

And Burn said this in response to me:

Burn wrote:

TFParodies wrote:How much clearer can I be than say opinions CAN be wrong?

Sure they can.

So, you both pretty much agreed with me as shown above yet we keep going around in circles about it. You see why I say things like "missed point" and such? But I guess I just need to grow up, eh? I guess the above didn't happen.

But now we are delving deeper talking about subjective vs. objective rather than accepting that fact that we at least came to somewhat of an agreement earlier all because I dare say I don't like something that you guys do like. Wow.

I thought the movies were great. Prove me wrong. Otherwise, hit the road.

Shadowman wrote:I thought the movies were great. Prove me wrong. Otherwise, hit the road.

+1 to the list. Nice evade. Oh, wait, that's what you were accusing me of wasn't it? How odd in such a subjective and quite objective way. Well done.

As to your suggestion: grow up.

Shadowman wrote:I thought the movies were great. Prove me wrong. Otherwise, hit the road.

Ah, wait, this from the same person who responded with this:

Shadowman wrote:Show me a gambler who thinks putting a billion dollars in the bank is "losing." Go on, I'll wait.

When I was talking about statistics and then somehow gets mad at me for saying he's missed the point. This response was so bad that even billionaires would agree putting another billion in the bank was "winning," thus rendering the entire response moot.

OptiMagnus wrote:As far as arguing, insults, and extreme views go, this site is actually the most extreme I've seen (and that goes for both pro-Bay and anti-Bay people), so this is probably the worst it gets.

I wasn't sure what you meant when you first wrote this, but man are you right.

Of course, I don't want this thread locked at all even though I've been attacked and insulted. I'm a big boy and could handle it myself. In fact, my email is my username at gmail if you really want to hurl insults.

You're trying to turn this around on all of us instead of actually backing up what you're saying.

Shadowman wrote:You're trying to turn this around on all of us instead of actually backing up what you're saying.

+1 again.

Trying to turn it around? No, from my point of view it was never turned in the first place. Please show me where I am not backing up what I'm saying. Since I have been responding now for hours I think your claim is fairly baseless. I've probably responded more tonight than I have ever since I joined.

You, sir, not I, have not given back one iota even after I posted previous responses. I even admitted that maybe I was unclear before. I have shown a willingness to respond. You have evaded and insulted (though, granted, lightly insulted and in no way does it really matter to me or do I think you have gone against any terms here).

Now tell me what it is, exactly, you would like me to address and I will do so without any one or two word responses.

Edit - though I am not sure how much longer I'll be here tonight as it is rather late. But I am not evading at all.

So, when you said opinions can be proven wrong, when did you back that up?

Shadowman wrote:So, when you said opinions can be proven wrong, when did you back that up?

You agreed with me! Maybe not at first, but you did. So why are you asking for me to back it up when we're already agreed? Anyway, I already gave the tooth fairy example.

For another example, lets take the movie "Gravity". Even if you didn't see it, you probably have heard that it's considered a very good film, has won many awards, but also has some pretty glaring factual errors.

So, if you say you loved it or hated it and that is your opinion, fine. That much can't be disproved. But, if you were to bring up one of those errors... (trying to remember one... I can't recall the exact moment) where they have said that bodies in space would not have behaved that way, then that is a factual thing that can be proved. If your opinion was something along the lines of that factual thing being right than that opinion would be wrong.

Not the best example, but hopefully you see what I am talking about.

tfparodies wrote:

Shadowman wrote:So, when you said opinions can be proven wrong, when did you back that up?

You agreed with me! Maybe not at first, but you did. So why are you asking for me to back it up when we're already agreed? Anyway, I already gave the tooth fairy example.

For another example, lets take the movie "Gravity". Even if you didn't see it, you probably have heard that it's considered a very good film, has won many awards, but also has some pretty glaring factual errors.

So, if you say you loved it or hated it and that is your opinion, fine. That much can't be disproved. But, if you were to bring up one of those errors... (trying to remember one... I can't recall the exact moment) where they have said that bodies in space would not have behaved that way, then that is a factual thing that can be proved. If your opinion was something along the lines of that factual thing being right than that opinion would be wrong.

That's not an example of an opinion. Opinions are based on personal tastes and beliefs. What you're suggesting is simply being wrong, and doubly so for trying to pass it off as a matter of opinion. You can't just attach "opinion" to something and then suddenly it becomes a matter of opinion.

I even remember going at something very similar with someone on this very board. he kept trying to say a man who was under the influence of drugs while operating a vehicle could be charged with manslaughter, but I pointed out that he couldn't because no one actually died. When he tried to pull off the ol' "Well excuse me for having an opinion!" card, I told him what he said wasn't a matter of opinion and that he was just plain wrong. Unlike you, he actually understood that.

This whole thread. Look, guy? Um. You want this to go smoother, stop mixing up plot holes with opinions. In my opinion, ROTF was good, REGARDLESS of plot errors or if YOU think its wrong. Its not,

And yes, this is a community. You stroll on in like that and say opinions can be wrong to further cement your hatred for the films, in THIS THREAD, yeah, It effects me, as an active member of this community, deal with it.

Now, all this thread has done has proven we TF fans are an arguable bunch who fling poo at one-another because of a lack of communication and everyone "missing the point" in a downward spiral de-railing an otherwise good thread with a wholesome premise. Pretty much the opposite of its original intent.

I liked the Transformers movies, while they had their flaws, I still found them highly enjoyable.

Is that opinion wrong tfparodies? Simple question. I'd love to read your answer to it.

Did someone open Pandora's Box? It's like the console wars in here.

Something I feel is helpful when discussing the movies: they were meant for an audience larger than just us fans. The common moviegoer who doesn't know much about Transformers isn't going to complain if Optimus Prime is your typical action hero with a thing for tearing off faces. Or if (Character X) doesn't act like he did in (Universe Y). Or robobeards. Ect ect.

That's my view on it anyways. I'm neutral when it comes to the Movieverse, don't love it or hate it. There's no reason to bash someone because their taste in giant transforming robots is different. All it does is make you look toxic.

BeastProwl wrote::lol: This whole thread. Look, guy? Um. You want this to go smoother, stop mixing up plot holes with opinions. In my opinion, ROTF was good, REGARDLESS of plot errors or if YOU think its wrong. Its not,

I imagine you pounding on your chest as you type these things. If so, well done! You do come off as quite tough. Not much in the sense-making department, but quite tough indeed! If you don't think plot holes can be opinions and be factually inaccurate than either you are 5 years old and don't know better, or somehow have gotten to this point in your life without actually going through any of that pesky thinking that some of us have to endure.

BeastProwl wrote:And yes, this is a community. You stroll on in like that and say opinions can be wrong to further cement your hatred for the films, in THIS THREAD, yeah, It effects me, as an active member of this community, deal with it.

I seem to be "dealing with it" just fine. Thanks for your concern though! I do like how you pretend that hatred for the films is something I just pulled out of thin air on here as if it's never been done before. But, hey, it's my opinion you know. I heard those can't be wrong.

Burn wrote:I liked the Transformers movies, while they had their flaws, I still found them highly enjoyable.

Is that opinion wrong tfparodies? Simple question. I'd love to read your answer to it.

Then I hope you enjoy reading this, especially since this is what, maybe the fourth time I'm repeating it now:

No! Your opinion is not wrong.

Twitchythe3rd wrote:Did someone open Pandora's Box? It's like the console wars in here.

Something I feel is helpful when discussing the movies: they were meant for an audience larger than just us fans. The common moviegoer who doesn't know much about Transformers isn't going to complain if Optimus Prime is your typical action hero with a thing for tearing off faces. Or if (Character X) doesn't act like he did in (Universe Y). Or robobeards. Ect ect.

That's my view on it anyways. I'm neutral when it comes to the Movieverse, don't love it or hate it. There's no reason to bash someone because their taste in giant transforming robots is different. All it does is make you look toxic.

Indeed. And since we are not the typical moviegoer it can be expected for us to have strong-than-average feelings towards these films. So, yes, these discussion can and often do get heated, especially when the "fanboys" can't be open to rational discussion about them.

This whole mess started when I, quite innocently, I thought, expressed that if asked for my opinion I would say I disliked these movies and not lie for the sake of fake positivity. I even said I would do so in a calm and respectful manner. I can see why I was jumped on for such an outrageous opinion.

How do you type while simultaneously looking down on everyone and dodging the point with insults and sarcasm? Its amazing!

Your obviously well and beyond all of us, so go on your path to ascension, and stop lowering yourself to our level, lest you pull your head from between your legs.

Ive made my point well and clear, so has everyone else BUT you. You shift gears more than a bigrig on the god damn autobahn.

Seriously, that fedora on your heads two sizes too small and is constricting your brain. You must be so fun at parties.

now, ME GO TO POUND CHEST MORE! FEEL GOOD!

Your views of me were humorous by the way, care to critique everyone else? Or are you too busy? Of course your not, critique away!

When in the name of **** did this fandom become a soap opera???

BeastProwl wrote:How do you type while simultaneously looking down on everyone and dodging the point with insults and sarcasm? Its amazing!

Yay! Yet another person saying I am the one evading when I have pointed out more than once that it just isn't true.

And yes, sometimes it hurts my neck to constantly look down. And the air is thin up here and sometimes I must be hallucinating because I could swear someone told me I strolled up to them and then when the ludicrousness was pointed out instead of admitting it and having a good laugh about it instead it was reiterated. Damn altitude.

Your obviously well and beyond all of us, so go on your path to ascension, and stop lowering yourself to our level, lest you pull your head from between your legs.

Thank you! I knew we could come to an understanding. I do admit that responding to these posts does distract me from my main occupation of sitting here and awaiting for the masses to erect some statues of me.

Ive made my point well and clear, so has everyone else BUT you. You shift gears more than a bigrig on the god damn autobahn.

Clever! I wonder if you got that from wittyoneliners.com or just came up with it yourself. Either way, score one for the big man! I feel sorely slapped back now and think I shall huddle in a corner and cry for a few hours.

Seriously, that fedora on your heads two sizes too small and is constricting your brain. You must be so fun at parties.

You know, I was wondering why I had constant headaches. You, sir, are a life-saver! As for the party invite, I would be happy to attend, thank you so much! I'll bring the guacamole. As we all know, a party doesn't really start until we are elbow-deep in some guac.

now, ME GO TO POUND CHEST MORE! FEEL GOOD!

There you go. It's a good way to get out aggression. Apparently so is typing unoriginal nonsense. Maybe I'll give it a try sometime.

Your views of me were humorous by the way, care to critique everyone else? Or are you too busy? Of course your not, critique away!

Well, perhaps I did take some liberties, I admit. but your comments do stir up quite an image. I mean when someone uses lines like these:

BeastProwl wrote:you can pussyfoot around the subject

BeastProwl wrote:when someone strolls up

BeastProwl wrote:You did stroll up

BeastProwl wrote:Look, guy? Um.

and the wonderful:

BeastProwl wrote:deal with it.

Edit - I forgot perhaps the best one:

BeastProwl wrote:You made your bed now sleep in it

I can't help but conjure up a certain Conan-the-Barbarian image in my constricted head. I concede, my good man.