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Even though i think Bats is WAAAAYYYYY over rated, i gotta admit he'd stomp a mud hole in lantern. Bats isn't above distracting Lantern with another enemy to get the drop on him.

and I believe bats beat supes in the dark knight saga.
anyone else remember the kryptonite powered body suit with golf cleats he stomped him with? And he was like 70 at that point.

klimkcoC wrote:Even though i think Bats is WAAAAYYYYY over rated, i gotta admit he'd stomp a mud hole in lantern. Bats isn't above distracting Lantern with another enemy to get the drop on him.

and I believe bats killed supes in the dark knight saga.
anyone else remember the kryptonite powered body suit with golf cleats he stomped him with? And he was 70 and crippled at that point.

Your remembering that a bit wrong.

The armoured suit was powered by Gotham city itself.

He tied the suit to a city lamp post.

There was no Krypotite in that suit.....how ever he did created a kryptonite tipped arrow that he had a "1 armed" Green Arrow fire at Superman.

And Batman did not kill Superman in that fight.

Batman won the fight and then died........simulated death, an other trick, he planed it that way.

As far as I know, Doomsday is the only thing to ever actually kill Superman.

Shadowman wrote:As far as I know, Doomsday is the only thing to ever actually kill Superman.

Your forgetting about Superboy Prime killing Superman earth 2.

Also "A" Batman did kill "A" Superman in the possible future seen as a result of Waveriders time traveling in the Armageddon 2001 story arc.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Inferno Prime wrote:
Mixing cannon here. Darkseid killed batman witLh Omega beams in rock of ages. When they fought during Superman/Batman darkseid never thought of using them because loeb was writing.

JLU is not canon.

I'm not mixing cannon.

What I'm talking about happened back in the mid 90's in the comics not in the cartoon.

But admittedly I cant remember which comic or story arc so I'm not going to make a big debate over it.

Inferno Prime wrote:Public Enemies: a future Superman turns up and owns batman and has a slight upperhand against Superman.

Absolute Power: Batman possesed by Krytonite man. Superman drops him using preasure point strikes

The Enemies Among Us: After kryptonite fails to stop a mind controlled superman he infects himself with the black rock which snaps superman out of his trance. Superman proceeds to beat up the enhanced Batman

Torment: Another mind control driven ass beating.

thanks for the reminder....for the record it was the 2nd one that I forgot.

But none of that changes anything I've said.In each of those occasions Batman or Superman were either not in complelte control of them selfs or one were caught off guard.

I never said Batman "CANT" be beat.Just that given foreknowledge of an impending fight Batman would implement one of his plans to stop whomever he's fighting.

Inferno Prime wrote:Lets hope it works better than that building sized spaceship made of Kryptonite lex used on superman two years back. Or a kryptonite enhanced doomsday.

I'm sure it would be.

Inferno Prime wrote:Batman can beat hal if he gets him by suprise with lots of planning, but not in a fair fight.

I say in a fair fight he has a 30% chance...mostly due to the fact that he would exploit any mistakes Hal "might" make.

Psycho Warrior wrote:And as for those pictures posted above, Hal never had his shields up and wasn't expecting to fight so those are actually all cheap first shots.

Thank you you just proved my point

Batman is not above useing cheap shots and if Hal's shields arent always up he's done for.

Batmans a "dirty fighter:...he's willing to make it look like he's put your loved ones in danger.

He's willing to hit you below the belt.

He's willing to act like he's giving you a had shake but instead break your arm.

So you're saying that Batman would win because he's an asshole with no honor. That doesn't speak too well of Batman.

God Thundercracker wrote:So you're saying that Batman would win because he's an asshole with no honor. That doesn't speak too well of Batman.

There's an old Klingon saying, "There's no greater honor in battle then VICTORY"

Does it really matter how it speaks of him????It sure doesnt in his mind.

He is a man amongst gods ,or god "like" beings, he does what he has too to insure he's the victor.

And I really dont see how being an "Asshole" really factors into this debate.

Yes Batman's an "Ass" yes he cheats,yes he'll make you believe that your loved ones are in danger, yes he'll pay off villains and/or mercenary's he thinks he can control to attack his opponent['s], yes he'll buy out your company or house to un-nerve and destract you.

What ever it takes to win.

No one said he's a "Nice Guy".

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Psycho Warrior wrote:And as for those pictures posted above, Hal never had his shields up and wasn't expecting to fight so those are actually all cheap first shots.

Thank you you just proved my point

Batman is not above useing cheap shots and if Hal's shields arent always up he's done for.

Batmans a "dirty fighter:...he's willing to make it look like he's put your loved ones in danger.

He's willing to hit you below the belt.

He's willing to act like he's giving you a had shake but instead break your arm.

So? Batman refuses to use guns because "not his style" and he also tends to be against killing the villians he fights. Hal would gladly kill his enemies but he's held back by the corp's rules (lethal force approved against sinestro corps members). So Hal's just as committed to the fight, perhaps even more because he's willing to kill if he has to.

Your argument is that bats would win by kicking hal in the crotch in the first minute of the fight. Like that would be the end of it.

Psycho Warrior wrote:So? Batman refuses to use guns because "not his style" and he also tends to be against killing the villians he fights. Hal would gladly kill his enemies but he's held back by the corp's rules (lethal force approved against sinestro corps members). So Hal's just as committed to the fight, perhaps even more because he's willing to kill if he has to.

I wouldnt go as far as to say Hal would "Gladly" kill his enemies.

I see Hal only going that far as a "Last Resort".

Psycho Warrior wrote:Your argument is that bats would win by kicking hal in the crotch in the first minute of the fight. Like that would be the end of it.

Your not being imaginitive.

Batman would know that kicking him in the crotch would only prolong the inevitable.

So Bats would hit him hard enough in a place on Hals body that would leed to knocking Hal out with one hit.Again he's done it before.

And to tell the truth the "crotch shot" would be enough to distract Hal and slip the ring right off his hand.

So again one hit and the fights over.

We keep coming back to the same thing.....the only way Hal wins is if he see's Bats coming, which knowing how Bats approaches these types of fights, Hal wont know what hit him.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And to tell the truth the "crotch shot" would be enough to distract Hal and slip the ring right off his hand.

Two problems with that:

1. Where do the hands go when you get hit in the crotch?

2. Slipping a ring off of a man's finger is really not an easy job, even for Batman. And if he notices, and makes a fist, and knocks you in the jaw with his ring...

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And to tell the truth the "crotch shot" would be enough to distract Hal and slip the ring right off his hand.

Two problems with that:

Oh really???? Lets see.

Shadowman wrote:1. Where do the hands go when you get hit in the crotch?

Batman is fast enough to do it before Hals hands reach his crotch.

Shadowman wrote:2. Slipping a ring off of a man's finger is really not an easy job, even for Batman.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Your kidding me right????????

If your not then I guess your not thinking clearly.

All Star Batman and Robin #9, Batman & Robin confrunt Jordan, who is provoked into hitting Batman a few times while Batman just sits there and takes it openly mocking Jordan to distract him.

Robin then sneaks up and steals Green Lantern's ring right off his finger.Hal doesnt even notice till he's told, causing him to chase Robin around the room. Robin turns on Green Lantern and attacks him, almost killing.

And before you say ,"doesn't count....different universe" or what ever, yes I know its an alternate earth whos characters are based on the ones from the main universe with [for the most part] the same powers and capabilities.

Hal is a "Hot Head" in that universe as he is in the main stream universe, and all it took was a few insults and a bad attitude from Batman to cause Hal to get so pissed that he let his anger get the better of him and allowed for Robin to get inbetween them, "UN-NOTICED", and steal the ring.

By the way Batman taught Robin how to steal.

So if Robin is fast enough and a good enough theift to steal Hals ring with out him even noticing....you can be damn sure Batman is.

Shadowman wrote: And if he notices, and makes a fist, and knocks you in the jaw with his ring...

Dude Batman is one of the fastest [if not the fastest] pick pockets in the DC universe.

And Hal didnt even notic when Robin took the ring from his finger.

Listen....I can understand being a a "fan boy" can sometimes leaves you blind but it shouldnt rob you of your logic.

Hal's reflexces arent even at Batmans level.

There's no way Hal would notice....Batman learned to be the best pick pocket and learned the best Sleight of hand techniques [card trick type stuff] from the best magicians in the DC universe.

Oh yeah.....How many problems with that again??????

Robin can pull a ring off of a man's fist? Okay, I can believe I may be pushing Hal a bit much, but c'mon! To get a ring off of someone's fist, first you have to open their fist. I don't care how good of a pick-pocket Robin is, there's no way Hal wouldn't notice someone trying to pry his fist open.

But there's not much to argue about anymore. It's pretty much been determined; if Hal knows there's a fight going on, he wins, but if Batman gets the drop on him, the scales are tipped in Bruce's favor.

Shadowman wrote:Robin can pull a ring off of a man's fist? Okay, I can believe I may be pushing Hal a bit much, but c'mon! To get a ring off of someone's fist, first you have to open their fist. I don't care how good of a pick-pocket Robin is, there's no way Hal wouldn't notice someone trying to pry his fist open.

There must have been a mix up.

My point is that Robin took the ring off before he had a chance to make a fist....just like Batman would.

Shadowman wrote:But there's not much to argue about anymore. It's pretty much been determined; if Hal knows there's a fight going on, he wins, but if Batman gets the drop on him, the scales are tipped in Bruce's favor.

I can agree with that.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Robin can pull a ring off of a man's fist? Okay, I can believe I may be pushing Hal a bit much, but c'mon! To get a ring off of someone's fist, first you have to open their fist. I don't care how good of a pick-pocket Robin is, there's no way Hal wouldn't notice someone trying to pry his fist open.

There must have been a mix up.

My point is that Robin took the ring off before he had a chance to make a fist....just like Batman would.

I think yo may be confusing Batman and Robin with the Flash on that one. To be able to slip a ring off of a man's finger just as he's about to make a fist either requires super speed, or to be completely invisible (And a bright red suit is not invisible)

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:But there's not much to argue about anymore. It's pretty much been determined; if Hal knows there's a fight going on, he wins, but if Batman gets the drop on him, the scales are tipped in Bruce's favor.

I can agree with that.

That is about it, really. But it's not like Batman has a 100% possibility of winning if he gets the drop on Hal, because then his Rogue's Gallery would never pose a threat. (His rogue's gallery, of course, is not on the fighting level of a Green Lantern) But he does have really good chances.

Shadowman wrote:I think yo may be confusing Batman and Robin with the Flash on that one.

I'm not.

Read All star Batman and Robin #9.

It happened.

Shadowman wrote: To be able to slip a ring off of a man's finger just as he's about to make a fist either requires super speed, or to be completely invisible

Your reading more in my post then I put there.

I never even suggest that Hal was even trying to make a fist..... much less that Robin took the ring while Hal was about too.

Simply put Hal was punching Batman in a fit of anger....some how in between hits Robin slipped in and took the ring off.

Now I dont know if you have been in many "bear knuckle fights" but I have.

Some times in the middle of punching of when you step back for a better angle to hit a guy, you release your fist for a secon or two.

The right thrift could slip in at that second and steal something from you.

And since your in the heat of a fight you might not notice.....if the thrift is good and fast enough......Robin was and since Batman trained him to do just that, Batman is also good and fast enough to pull it off.

Shadowman wrote:(And a bright red suit is not invisible)

Actually Robin was painted all in yellow in a room that was painted all yellow.

So he might have had a measure of invisible when you put real word ideas into play.

But thats an other debate.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:But there's not much to argue about anymore. It's pretty much been determined; if Hal knows there's a fight going on, he wins, but if Batman gets the drop on him, the scales are tipped in Bruce's favor.

I can agree with that.

Shadowman wrote:That is about it, really. But it's not like Batman has a 100% possibility of winning if he gets the drop on Hal, because then his Rogue's Gallery would never pose a threat. (His rogue's gallery, of course, is not on the fighting level of a Green Lantern) But he does have really good chances.

Many of Batmans rogues out class a GL,and Hal in particular, when it comes to fighting.

And the "threat" that most of Bat's rogues pose goes beyond a simple fight in the streets.

Hand to hand combat, Batman could KO most of his rouges with 1 punch, but then how would Bats get the info he was looking for???

BTW "MOST" might be an over statement....I'm too tired to try to think about each one right now.

Sorry, but All-Star Batman is not canon. It is a Frank Miller/Jim Lee project that is completely independent of regular DC continuity. And given that All-Star Batman is portrayed as a psychopath who kidnaps children and forces them to live on rats, that series reflects a lot worse on Batman than it does on Hal. I wouldn't bring it up if I was a Batman fan.

Seems to me in a allOut Fight, Hall takes it. The Anything that Batman can throw at him, the ring can contain. Batman doesnt have any gadgets on him that are portable enough for him to Neutralize the Ring. If he has enough time to prepare, then he might have the chance. I like that Batman becomes the Green Lantern picture though.

Though how much do you wan to bet that Batman has a head of a Manhunter hanging around in the batcave.

God Thundercracker wrote:Sorry, but All-Star Batman is not canon.

Maybe you need to look up the defintion of the word "Canon".

If its a story from DEC cpmics and has a continuity of its own it is "CANON".

God Thundercracker wrote: It is a Frank Miller/Jim Lee project that is completely independent of regular DC continuity.

Yes it is.....which makes it "CANON".

God Thundercracker wrote: And given that All-Star Batman is portrayed as a psychopath who kidnaps children and forces them to live on rats, that series reflects a lot worse on Batman than it does on Hal. I wouldn't bring it up if I was a Batman fan.

You wouldnt....I would.

The characters of that alternate earth are based on the main stream universe's characters.

99.9 present have the same powers and capabilities.

Simply put if "All star" Batman can do something so can "New earth" [mainstream Universe] Batman.

And as I said above I'm not making an argument on how "nice" a guy Batman is....weather he cheats,or is a "douche bag" is irrelivent to the discussion at hand.

It doesnt mater how "All star" reflects on Batman but the capabilities of the character.

Its funny you asked me to explain "How" Batman could win the fight...

God Thundercracker wrote:Um, explain to me exactly how Batman could beat Hal Jordan, especially if he no longer has a weakness to yellow.

I did so and you havent offered "1 single" argument to counter mine.

Canon not canon, in continuity not in continuity, so far thats all you offered.

And none of that really matters since the characters of an alternate universe are "ALWAYS" based on the originals.

That doent mean that there arent some important differences some of the times but as a general rule of thumb, if a character is capable of doing something in one universe he's most likely capable of doing it an other universe.

And in this case "All Star Batman" is just a darker version of the character with the "SAME" capabilities as the Batman from the mainstream universe.

Batman of the mainstream universe took the same training in pick pocketing and Sleight of hand techniques and tricks.

Again if "All Star Batman" can do it then so can "Mainstream Batman".

And BTW when you started this topic you never said "which" universe.

You never stated that you were only going to want replys based on any 1 single universe.

If you only wanted replys based on events in the mainstream DCU then you should have indicated that in your first post.

Not that it would have changed much of my post.The facts I posted still stand.

Tough Scorponok wrote: Batman doesnt have any gadgets on him that are portable enough for him to Neutralize the Ring.

Batman does not need to "Neutralize the Ring" all he has to do is "Neutralize the guy wearing the Ring" and he's proven capable of doing just that.

Senor Hugo wrote:Though how much do you wan to bet that Batman has a head of a Manhunter hanging around in the batcave.

Who knows

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

God Thundercracker wrote:Sorry, but All-Star Batman is not canon.

Maybe you need to look up the defintion of the word "Canon".

If its a story from DEC cpmics and has a continuity of its own it is "CANON".

God Thundercracker wrote: It is a Frank Miller/Jim Lee project that is completely independent of regular DC continuity.

Yes it is.....which makes it "CANON".

Completely independent of regular DC Continuity = Non-canon.

Just because a story is from DC comics, doesn't mean it's canon. For example, Watchmen, or Superman: Red Son.

If it has a continuity of it's own it is non-canon with any other continuity.

sto_vo_kor2000 wrote:Canon not canon, in continuity not in continuity, so far thats all you offered.And none of that really matters since the characters of an alternate universe are "ALWAYS" based on the originals.

That doent mean that there arent some important differences some of the times but as a general rule of thumb, if a character is capable of doing something in one universe he's most likely capable of doing it an other universe.

And in this case "All Star Batman" is just a darker version of the character with the "SAME" capabilities as the Batman from the mainstream universe.

Batman of the mainstream universe took the same training in pick pocketing and Sleight of hand techniques and tricks.

Again if "All Star Batman" can do it then so can "Mainstream Batman".

And BTW when you started this topic you never said "which" universe.

You never stated that you were only going to want replys based on any 1 single universe.

If you only wanted replys based on events in the mainstream DCU then you should have indicated that in your first post.

Not that it would have changed much.The facts still stand.


Batman does not need to "Neutralize the Ring" all he has to do is "Neutralize the guy wearing the Ring" and he's proven capable of doing just that.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

God Thundercracker wrote:Sorry, but All-Star Batman is not canon.

Maybe you need to look up the defintion of the word "Canon".

If its a story from DEC cpmics and has a continuity of its own it is "CANON".

God Thundercracker wrote: It is a Frank Miller/Jim Lee project that is completely independent of regular DC continuity.

Yes it is.....which makes it "CANON".

Completely independent of regular DC Continuity = Non-canon.

Just because a story is from DC comics, doesn't mean it's canon. For example, Watchmen, or Superman: Red Son.

If it has a continuity of it's own it is non-canon with any other continuity.

And yet it is canon within its own continuity.

Canon= official sanctioned material

Watchmen is canon to its own universe.

Wether its Independent of the mainstream continuity does not mean it is not canon.

It may not be in continuity with the mainstream universe but it has its own canon.

Name_Violation wrote:

sto_vo_kor2000 wrote:Canon not canon, in continuity not in continuity, so far thats all you offered.And none of that really matters since the characters of an alternate universe are "ALWAYS" based on the originals.

That doent mean that there arent some important differences some of the times but as a general rule of thumb, if a character is capable of doing something in one universe he's most likely capable of doing it an other universe.

And in this case "All Star Batman" is just a darker version of the character with the "SAME" capabilities as the Batman from the mainstream universe.

Batman of the mainstream universe took the same training in pick pocketing and Sleight of hand techniques and tricks.

Again if "All Star Batman" can do it then so can "Mainstream Batman".

And BTW when you started this topic you never said "which" universe.

You never stated that you were only going to want replys based on any 1 single universe.

If you only wanted replys based on events in the mainstream DCU then you should have indicated that in your first post.

Not that it would have changed much.The facts still stand.


Batman does not need to "Neutralize the Ring" all he has to do is "Neutralize the guy wearing the Ring" and he's proven capable of doing just that.

You didnt post anything.

yea, because you summed it up.batman>green lantern. also i dont think gl's ring can block sonic things, since he can hear through it. so if nothing else bats would use a sonic device to mess with his inner ear, throwing off any coordination or balance hal has. its been stated time and again that bats has atleast 1 plan per member of the justice league on how to stop them.

the whole argument is also a moot point if hal still has to sleep...

HE HAS BAT-SHARK REPELLANT FOR GOD'S SAKE, HE'S NOT PREPARED FOR ANY POSSIBILITY, IS HE

Name_Violation wrote:yea, because you summed it up.batman>green lantern. also i dont think gl's ring can block sonic things, since he can hear through it. so if nothing else bats would use a sonic device to mess with his inner ear, throwing off any coordination or balance hal has. its been stated time and again that bats has atleast 1 plan per member of the justice league on how to stop them.

the whole argument is also a moot point if hal still has to sleep...

HE HAS BAT-SHARK REPELLANT FOR GOD'S SAKE, HE'S NOT PREPARED FOR ANY POSSIBILITY, IS HE

Ohhh sorry...I thought you forgot to hit enter or something messed up.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And yet it is canon within its own continuity.

Canon= official sanctioned material

Watchmen is canon to its own universe.

Wether its Independent of the mainstream continuity does not mean it is not canon.

It may not be in continuity with the mainstream universe but it has its own canon.

That is absolutely horrid logic. Watchmen doesn't affect the main DC Universe, so it is non-canon. Superman: Red Son doesn't affect the main DC Universe, so it is non-canon.

If it is independent of the main canon, it is non-canon.

we're kickin a dead horse over here...