Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Got my MP-04 today from the seller on crave.com. Everything looks great with the exception that it doesnt have the manual, already contacted the seller to see if he maybe forgot to throw it in the box. Aside from that everything went smooth and I'm happy I can finally complete my masterpiece collection.

Sounds like a good idea. However, like others have commented NOT a fan of requiring facebook registration. Frankly, we do not use it so, does this mean we cannot register? Also, not a fan of the delays middle men can create. When we sell we want to sell immediately.

So here are some questions: 1) Whom does Crave help first if there is a dispute? E.g. If the seller gets payment, ships w/delivery confirmation but no insurance at buyers choice, then the buyer claims package was damaged and demands a refund?

2) What recourse do sellers have dealing with deadbeat buyers? Will Crave blacklist them? Fine them? Nothing? Please elaborate.

Certain there are plenty more questions out there. Looking forward to your prompt reply. Cheers!

Fortress_Maximus wrote:
So here are some questions: 1) Whom does Crave help first if there is a dispute? E.g. If the seller gets payment, ships w/delivery confirmation but no insurance at buyers choice, then the buyer claims package was damaged and demands a refund?

2) What recourse do sellers have dealing with deadbeat buyers? Will Crave blacklist them? Fine them? Nothing? Please elaborate.

Certain there are plenty more questions out there. Looking forward to your prompt reply. Cheers!

Regarding question 1: Here is the Crave Transaction Policy: http://www.crave.com/info/transactions
Hopefully that table about midway down the page will answer any of your questions. I don't want to quote them all here, in case I leave out something important.

On Crave, the buyer can not get to choose "no insurance." The seller just decides how much to charge for shipping, and that's what it costs. Sounds like insurance would be a good choice in the scenario you describe.

Regarding question number 2, the great thing about Crave is that you don't have to worry about deadbeat buyers. Since Crave is in the middle of the transaction, they take the payment from the buyer, and you get paid by Crave. This means you have protection from deadbeat buyers, since it's actually Crave who is guaranteeing you get paid as long as you hold up your end of the transaction.

Hope this answers your questions!
-GG

Hi GG.
Thanks the information provided helps.

Still have concerns, will go through them individually. Would appreciate a detailed reply to this post.

In the link you provided you listed if the problem is:

1) "Item not as-described or damaged" then "[Buyer] Gets full refund once item delivered and confirmed by seller." Now we understand when sellers mislead or forget to include things. However, we do not and we do not appreciate requiring us to provide a refund. In the 15 years we've been selling online, we've never refunded anyone anything.

In its current form Craves' refund policy can be abused and should be carefully evaluated, especially considering these are toys and people often have "buyers remorse".

QUESTION 1: What is the PRECISE AMOUNT OF DAYS for the "REVIEW PERIOD"? Does that date start from the shipment date or buyer payment date? This is essential b/c during this time once the buyer receives the products, what is to prevent them from "changing their minds"? If you sell a lot you certainly will have encountered this concern before.

QUESTION 2: What is your company doing to prevent abuse of the "refund policy"?

2) "Lost in the mail / postal service did record it was mailed, but did not arrive" this results in "•Seller does not get sale proceeds. The seller's recourse is with the carrier." Please clarify this recourse.

QUESTION 3: Assuming a buyer refused to get insurance and the product arrives damage (despite good packaging by the seller). So HOW is it the fault of the seller? That is why insurance is optional but strongly advised! When buyers refuse for whatever reasons, the buyer assumes the risk.

QUESTION 4: So then why is the seller PENALIZED with no sale proceeds? This is what paypal does and it has credited back to some abusive buyers. This does NOT make sense. Please clarify.

QUESTION 5: What are the precise amounts Crave can charge under FEES? Referring to, "We reserve the right to charge or credit Members' accounts and credit cards on file, according to our Transactions Policy, at our discretion, depending on the policy dictated settlement"

This part is on the same page your provided is incredibly vague. Is there a chart detailing limits? If not, please create one and post it soon.

Buyers/Sellers definitely need details since fee description is too general and does not specify limits on the amount that Crave can charge in case of disputes. This is most unsettling since it is far too open to interpretation and potential disputes/abuse. Please clarify with specifics. Thank you.

QUESTION 6: Not everyone uses or even like social media sites like Facebook. We do not use and will not use facebook, far too many privacy violations. Can people like us who do not use facebook still sell on Crave? We request you make it so users who do not use facebook can also use your site. Thank you.

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.

Hi Fortress Maximus,
Thanks for your thoughtful questions about in Crave. You sound like a very experienced seller.
We are trying to improve on the buyer & seller experience that we've all been dealing with on eBay over the years, so your suggestions and feedback are really helpful.

Our philosophy is that most people have good intentions, but in some cases there are problems with transactions. While there is no perfect system, we've designed the transaction process on Crave to be as fair as possible to both sides.

Regarding your questions:

QUESTION 1: What is the PRECISE AMOUNT OF DAYS for the "REVIEW PERIOD"?

The seller has two business days after the date of purchase to ship the item.
The buyer then has two business days after the date of confirmed delivery to let us know of any problems, then we transfer payment to the seller the day after that.
The idea is that it is the same time frame on both ends.
Usually the end to end transactions complete quickly.
This has kept fraud & abuse extremely low and led to more transactions.

QUESTION 2: What is your company doing to prevent abuse of the "refund policy?

We investigate & track the circumstances of a "refund request" so we can identify & blacklist a purchaser as soon as we have evidence of abuse. We'll be adding feedback mechanisms as well.
We've found that sellers will get more transactions overall (even accounting for some returns) when they offer buyers a refund option. So we made it part of the process. (Consider Amazon and Zappos as additional examples.)
I'd love to hear your suggestions here.

QUESTION 3: Case of "Lost in the mail / postal service did record it was mailed, but did not arrive" this results in "Seller does not get sale proceeds. The seller's recourse is with the carrier." Please clarify this recourse.
If the buyer refused to get insurance and the product arrives damage (despite good packaging by the seller), HOW is it the fault of the seller?

This is a rare case where an item has been shipped with tracking, but does not arrive to the buyer because it has been lost by the carrier. We are talking about the case where the carrier admits to losing the package, not a claim by the buyer that it did not arrive.
As with any online purchase, it is the seller's responsibility to deliver the item and the buyer's responsibility to pay for a delivered item.
If the carrier loses the item, then the seller needs to deal with the carrier. Sellers can protect themselves from an item getting lost by a carrier by factoring in insurance into the shipping cost for high value items.
However, we have not seen any cases of this nature.

QUESTION 4: (Follow up to the one above) So then why is the seller penalized with no sale proceeds? This is what paypal does and it has credited back to some abusive buyers. This does NOT make sense. Please clarify.

Following up #3, in the case where a seller has not delivered the item because the carrier lost it and that is documented by the carrier (say USPS), it is the carrier who is at fault, not the buyer, so the buyer should not be required to pay for the item. Again, this is extremely rare but if a seller is shipping a high value Transformers, it makes sense to include insurance in the cost of shipping.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Please reply to questions 5 and 6 which were added. Thank you. And yes we are experienced sellers/buyers; we have heard all the excuses... from my under aged child, brother, sister bid on something so I cannot pay, to the deadbeats claiming non-receipt of something despite delivery confirmation proving otherwise and paypal still refunds them monies (leaving the seller with no product and no monies). The bottom line is, there are many situations for abuse from sellers and buyers alike. As you may know paypal and ebay are extremely biased towards protecting buyers to the point of turning a blind eye to abusive buyers. So, if Crave truly wants to distinguish itself as raising the bar above Ebay.com and other other marketplaces it needs to offer better protection for the sellers.

QUESTION 1: So just to confirm the buyer has TWO BUSINESS DAYS after confirmed receipt of the package to "review"? Then isn't it true sellers can expect to get paid on average in 12 to 14 DAYS after the transaction is closed. Example, item is sold on 1/1/11, buyer has two days to pay, by 1/3/11. Seller has two days after to ship w/delivery confirmation & insurance, by 1/5/11. Assume average USPS delivery is five days, by 1/11/11. Buyer has two business days after the date of confirmed delivery to inform of problems, by 1/13/11. Then Crave transfers payment to the seller the day after that by 1/14/11. Even assuming the earliest time delivery of three days by USPS, the earliest sellers get paid if 1/12/11. Frankly, as sellers this is still a LONG time to wait for the payment! Something in this process needs to be streamlined for efficiency.

QUESTION 2: Is Crave serious about protecting its marketplace? If so requiring a mandatory refund policy does not ensure buyers or sellers will ever act responsibly. Yes generally most are fine, but isn't always the ones who are irresponsible deadbeats who waste your time, forcing you as a buyer/seller to chase the other party down? Since this tends to be where the offenders fall, why not implement a stronger policy? A NO DEADBEAT POLICY?

Honestly, feedback ranking does NOTHING to prevent abuse; it is absolutely useless as a deterrent. However, the one thing that does make both parties always stop and notice is hitting their wallets. As such, Crave should strongly consider implementing CREDIT CARD FINES to deadbeat buyers and sellers. Doing so WILL prevent abuse. No selling forum has ever implemented this. And before people get outraged and cry bloody murder consider the following. Isn't it true (and as everyone who has any credit history knows), whenever people fail to pay their bills (credit card, utility, cell phone, internet, traffic tickets, parking tickets, tuition, mortgage, property taxes, et al) YOU GET FINED? So then, shouldn't a real business also fine people for behaving irresponsibly and hold them accountable for their actions?

Now, credit card fines can be two pronged. First prong, an automated credit card fine for not paying within the requisite time for buyers. Two main options: a) Precise amount can be a percentage of the item they would've paid for in full as determined by Crave and payable to Crave. b) If Crave is SERIOUS in enforcing a NO DEADBEATS and NO SCAMMERS POLICY, b/c buyers are required to pay, then CHARGE the buyer's credit card the FULL amount owed w/shipping & Craves' transaction fee. Of course then sellers would still be responsible for shipping product out per terms or face fines too.
Second prong, the seller should be compensated for their lost sale and time. Do you appreciate your time being wasted? No? Then when as a responsible buyer/seller you wouldn't do that to someone else, correct? And if you did isn't it true, you would expect to be held accountable? Another thing to consider as sellers we experienced and heard so many times a buyer places an item on hold, so the seller places it aside and turns away another potential buyer. Sometimes by going w/the first buyer who may turn out to be a irresponsible deadbeat, the seller LOST A SALE with the second buyer. Now the actual fine amount could be a percentage of the final price the item would've sold for deposited into the sellers credit card account. Thoughts?

QUESTION 3: Essentially Crave is REQUIRING not only delivery confirmation but also insurance, correct? Now how will this be enforced if the buyer refuses to pay for insurance? Are sellers forced then to pay out of pocket to protect themselves? This does NOT sound reasonable.
We agree it is rare when sellers ship using a carrier w/delivery confirmation and insurance and the carrier admits they've lost the package. Usually if anything the carrier typically finds the package later or deliver it damaged. However again, in both cases, HOW is either the fault or responsibility of the seller if the item is not delivered by the carrier or arrives damaged?

QUESTION 4: It is definitely not reasonable to hold the seller accountable when the carrier is late or damages the package. Once a seller transfers the package into the carriers possession (assuming delivery confirmation & insurance), it is literally out of their hands. So bottom line, why is the sellers funds HELD under these situations? Kindly clarify.

Fortress_Maximus wrote:
QUESTION 1: So just to confirm the buyer has TWO BUSINESS DAYS after confirmed receipt of the package to "review"? Then isn't it true sellers can expect to get paid on average in 12 to 14 DAYS after the transaction is closed. Example, item is sold on 1/1/11, buyer has two days to pay, by 1/3/11. Seller has two days after to ship w/delivery confirmation & insurance, by 1/5/11. Assume average USPS delivery is five days, by 1/11/11. Buyer has two business days after the date of confirmed delivery to inform of problems, by 1/13/11. Then Crave transfers payment to the seller the day after that by 1/14/11. Even assuming the earliest time delivery of three days by USPS, the earliest sellers get paid if 1/12/11. Frankly, as sellers this is still a LONG time to wait for the payment! Something in this process needs to be streamlined for efficiency.

You can knock some days off of that estimate. The buyer does not have two business days to pay. The buyer pays immediately for the item. Also, the seller doesn't have to wait 2 days to ship it. Many of the sellers ship immediately after the sale. If the seller ships immediately, the only wait time is the shipping time and the two days during which the buyer can review the product.

Fortress_Maximus wrote: If Crave is SERIOUS in enforcing a NO DEADBEATS/SCAMMERS POLICY, b/c buyers are required to pay, then CHARGE the buyer's credit card the FULL amount owed w/shipping & Crave transaction fee. Of course then sellers would still be responsible for shipping product out per terms or face fines too.

Crave does charge the buyers immediately. The buyer has already paid for the item before the seller is even notified that they've made a sale. If the seller doesn't ship within 2 business days, Crave will refund the buyer's money (after giving the seller warning that this will happen).

Fortress_Maximus wrote:Second prong, the seller should be compensated for their lost sale and time. Do you appreciate your time being wasted? No? Then when as a responsible buyer/seller you wouldn't do that to someone else, correct? Also we've experienced and heard so many times when one buyer places an item on hold, so the seller places it aside and turns away another potential buyer. Frankly by going w/the first buyer who may turn out to be a irresponsible deadbeat, the seller LOST A SALE with the second buyer. Now the actual fine amount could be a percentage of the final price the item would've sold for deposited into the sellers credit card account. Or the seller can elect for Crave crediting to them for future Crave postings. Thoughts?

There is no hold process on Crave. The buyer simply clicks a button to purchase the item and then pays for it. Then the seller is alerted that they have sold their item, and it is then the seller's responsibility to ship it. Once the item has been confirmed delivered and the buyer has not complained that the product was misrepresented or damaged, Crave pays the seller. The seller never has to worry about being paid or not paid by a buyer, because the seller is not working directly with the buyer.

Fortress_Maximus wrote:QUESTION 3: Essentially Crave is REQUIRING not only delivery confirmation but also insurance, correct? Now how will this be enforced if the buyer refuses to pay for insurance? Are sellers forced then to pay out of pocket to protect themselves? This does NOT sound reasonable.

The seller determines how much the shipping costs, not the buyer. The buyer can not refuse to pay the shipping cost. As an example, if the seller thinks that it will cost about $5 to ship, but wants to add another couple of dollars to cover insurance and tracking, then he just lists the shipping cost as $7. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your concern here? At the moment, the buyer doesn't really have any say in the shipping cost.

Fortress_Maximus wrote:QUESTION 4: It is definitely not reasonable to hold the seller accountable when the carrier is late or damages the package. Once a seller transfers the package into the carriers possession (assuming delivery confirmation & insurance), it is literally out of their hands. So bottom line, why is the sellers funds HELD under these situations? Kindly clarify.

If you are concerned about this happening, Crave strongly recommends purchasing insurance for the shipping (and adding it to the cost of shipping). That way you won't be held responsible if the shipping carrier loses the package.

Of course, since Crave is so new, they're very interested in getting as much feedback as possible from extremely experienced sellers like yourself. It sounds like lost or damaged packages have been an issue for you. How do you normally deal with them? How have you dealt with when you've sent a package, but the carrier has lost it?

Thanks again for asking these questions! It's really helpful to hear about the concerns of sellers so that Crave can help create a better selling experience.

-GG

Thanks GG and RC for the detailed comments.

Yes, instantly charging helps immensely. To clarify we added extra days in case of a weekend like Sunday which would delay shipment.

We separated the insurance and delivery confirmation costs b/c many buyers try to cut costs by eliminating insurance and/or trying to get cheaper shipping methods like flat rate. The thing most buyers overlook is the size and weight especially if items are MISB and need to be packed into a larger package. Oversized packages for USPS typically incur another expense too, so this is when buyers often back out. Hopefully the automated charging system will eliminate this concern. Also about the insurance most sellers do not eat that cost and leave purchasing insurance as optional but highly recommended. This is why we asked what happens if buyers refuse to add insurance. Does that make sense?

To answer your question in the past we've dealt with damaged packages by requiring tracking/delivery confirmation on ALL purchases. But we do not require insurance and the buyer assumes the risk. So if the carrier loses the package and the buyer does not pay for extra insurance it is as we commented, out of our hands. We have filed claims for buyers in the past (two) b/c we have the documentation proving we mailed it out. However after that the investigation is in the hands of the carrier. In one instance the package arrived a month later and the other, it was never found and the buyer ate the loss for not buying insurance. We have never refunded which is why we are concerned about buyers remorse and do not believe in refunds since 99% of our items are MISB.

The main thing that delays shipping for us as sellers is obtaining accurate shipping quotes until we learn the buyers actual shipping address. This cannot be done in advance until a buyer elects to buy something. If we did a flat rate there is a large difference in cost between Continental US and other places like Hawaii and Canada. So as much as possible we do not list shipping until the buyer buys which is typical in auction situations.

This brings up a good side issue, what is Craves' policy on international buyers or sellers regarding shipping?

Lastly, please reply to questions 5 & 6. For your convenience they are listed here:

QUESTION 5: What are the precise amounts Crave can charge under FEES? Referring to, "We reserve the right to charge or credit Members' accounts and credit cards on file, according to our Transactions Policy, at our discretion, depending on the policy dictated settlement" Is there a chart detailing limits? If not, please create one and post it soon. Buyers/Sellers definitely need details since fee description is too general and does not specify limits on the amount that Crave can charge in case of disputes. This is most unsettling since it is far too open to interpretation and potential disputes/abuse. Please clarify with specifics. Thank you.

QUESTION 6: Many people do not use or even like social media sites like Facebook. We do not use and will not use facebook, far too many privacy violations. So can sellers like us who do not use facebook still sell on Crave?

We request you make it so users who do not use facebook can also use your site. Thank you.

*bump* for Crave people to reply to questions #5 & 6.

Waiting....

Hi Fortress Maximus,
Happy New Year! We understand the points you are making about protecting sellers. We are a small harding-working team getting this marketplace off the ground and working on as many improvements as possible, so your support while we continue to build out the service is very helpful.

To answer your additional questions:

This brings up a good side issue, what is Craves' policy on international buyers or sellers regarding shipping?

Currently we are supporting sales in the U.S. with plans to support international in the future. This is because the site doesn't yet support variable shipping calculations. For now sellers use flat rate shipping which only applies within the U.S. Adding this feature is on our roadmap.

QUESTION 5: What are the precise amounts Crave can charge under FEES? Referring to, "We reserve the right to charge or credit Members' accounts and credit cards on file, according to our Transactions Policy, at our discretion, depending on the policy dictated settlement" Is there a chart detailing limits? If not, please create one and post it soon. Buyers/Sellers definitely need details since fee description is too general and does not specify limits on the amount that Crave can charge in case of disputes. This is most unsettling since it is far too open to interpretation and potential disputes/abuse. Please clarify with specifics. Thank you.

I get your concern. The details are in the chart on our Transactions Policy page. This refers to the case where one of the parties has not fulfilled their end of the transaction so would not exceed the cost of the item and shipping.

QUESTION 6: Many people do not use or even like social media sites like Facebook. We do not use and will not use facebook, far too many privacy violations. So can sellers like us who do not use facebook still sell on Crave?

We have started off by using Facebook profiles because we are trying to create a trusted community of fans with real identities to help develop a system of fair transactions. For example, you will be able to see which of your friends purchased from a seller & ask them about the seller, or see if you have any friends in common, that sort of thing. We may create an additional account system in the future, but for now you need to login using Facebook.

There are a lot of things we are still working on as a new site so we recognize it's not perfect, but if we can build on what we have, we think there is a win for everyone by creating an experience superior to eBay. I'd be happy to chat by phone if you want to walk through the site together and give me any other feedback. Send me a PM.

Hey there, Red Convoy. Thanks for answering so many of Fortress_Maximus' questions. They're helpful for all of us.

Red Convoy wrote:We understand the points you are making about protecting sellers. We are a small harding-working team getting this marketplace off the ground and working on as many improvements as possible, so your support while we continue to build out the service is very helpful.

What sorts of features will you be rolling out in the next month or so? I think all of us would love to know so that we can plan our use of Crave accordingly.

Red Convoy wrote:Currently we are supporting sales in the U.S. with plans to support international in the future.

Living in Canada, this question is the most pertinent to me. Any idea when international buying and selling will be ready?

Cheers,
Nick

Hi Red Convoy. Thanks for answering those remaining questions. Unfortunately we do not use Facebook and will not sign up just to test Crave.

If in the future Crave allows non-Facebook registration we will test it, otherwise we will have no alternative but to lists items to be sold elsewhere.

Hi @nickh, thanks for your questions.

What sorts of features will you be rolling out in the next month or so? I think all of us would love to know so that we can plan our use of Crave accordingly.

We are working on a dashboard to show recent activity like sales and on more detailed profiles for buyers & sellers so you can see more about the fan you are transacting with. A few more things in the pipeline, but I'll update you on that soon.

Living in Canada, this question is the most pertinent to me. Any idea when international buying and selling will be ready?

We're actually looking for buyers & sellers in Canada who want to do some test sales and help us make sure the delivery tracking with flat rate shipping works between US and CA. Do you have time for a phone call to share your experiences selling or buying between US and CA?

We're actually looking for buyers & sellers in Canada who want to do some test sales and help us make sure the delivery tracking with flat rate shipping works between US and CA. Do you have time for a phone call to share your experiences selling or buying between US and CA?

I like to buy stuff! I also so happen to live in Canada. I was looking at your site last night and noticed a couple items of interest.

I wasn't aware that you didn't deliver internationally though. I wondered about the shipping as i scrolled through the items on the site because it certainly seemed cheaper than usual.

I'd be interested in helping out, to get the ball rolling for ya. It would be nice to have another source for figures other than Ebay.

hi there crave staff.

any chance crave staff is going to add stock photos to the site? or have a help feature that allows people to add new series? just wondering b/c while searching for optimus prime found a ton of primes but some were duplicates and some were well just in the wrong section. looks like without pics some users are posting up their own sections despite existing ones causing a disorganized mess. might not be a real concerns if there were more stock pics so people knew what a listing was.

also searched for unicorn today and well found a ton of results but nothing related to what actually desired. looking for the big guy himself from armada or the black version from energon. can someone look into the search results it produced unrelated results. thanks.

hi fortress_maximus,

excellent questions.
(1) regarding your search for "unicron," the reason you go lots of results is that our search returns results both by series and by character so you got all of the unicron trilogy results. we'll see what we can do to fix that in the future.

if you use the "series selector" button and look under energon, here are the results:
http://www.crave.com/marketplace/transf ... nergon?p=1

there is one unicron for sale for $37 here, but not the black version:
http://www.crave.com/marketplace/listin ... on-supreme

(2)in terms of results for classics optimus, here are the results i got with a search:
http://www.crave.com/marketplace/transf ... h/classics optimus

you can also use the series select here and select "Classics" or a sub-series:
http://www.crave.com/marketplace/transf ... ics-series

(3) in terms of photos, those have been fan-uploaded by sellers, but we have plans down the road to open editing capabilities. just no resources in the short term.

hope that helps!

ok thanks! yes please see if the team can fix the search feature sooner than later. thanks. also it might be great to add a saved searches feature too.

and lastly, looking forward to more pics for each listing and category. sadly there are a lot more listings without pictures... kind of makes it confusing and noticed listings are getting disorganized too. hopefully once your team adds pics instead of relying on users to add their own pictures to create/fill a category... crave will become more organized and have better content. keep us posted!

SO SAD!

CRAVE is closing. Just in case everyone did not know already. Just barely made it over a year and now DEAD. Oh wells.

Fortress_Maximus wrote:SO SAD!

CRAVE is closing. Just in case everyone did not know already. Just barely made it over a year and now DEAD. Oh wells.

It's unfortunate for those who use and enjoy the site. I probably would have used it if it didn't require Facebook, which I have no interest or need for. I also didn't like them hanging onto the money side of the transaction. I know that was done to encourage the seller to be honest with the listing and send the pictured toy, but it seemed too slow of a process.

I also didn't like the idea of a buyer paying a sort of finder's fee to Crave. I think if anything there could have been a membership sold, kind of like how you pay Sam's club to shop there because they are going to shoot you super deals.
Like I said though, I would have used it to sell and buy, but the Facebook thing killed it for me.