Tsutsukakushi wrote::-? If the Kickstarter does not reach it's Eighty grand goal. What becomes of the money from the backers? Does PWTT keep the money and tell everyone T-shirts are coming thanks for your support?
Is PWTT allowed to keep the money from the backers and use it towards a restarted kickstarter goal count down?
Can PWTT say thanks for the $35,000. Since we didn't meet the goal of $80,000. We will be using your money to create only only Figure from the kickstarter.
Is their a way to back out of the preorder on the PWTT kickstarter if the goal is not met. and before PWTT uses all the money to make just one toy instead of 20 different toys.
Just some advice, Backers can call their credit card companies and change their credit card account numbers. To prevent PWTT from charging their credit cards.
Rated X wrote:Tsutsukakushi wrote::-? If the Kickstarter does not reach it's Eighty grand goal. What becomes of the money from the backers? Does PWTT keep the money and tell everyone T-shirts are coming thanks for your support?
Is PWTT allowed to keep the money from the backers and use it towards a restarted kickstarter goal count down?
Can PWTT say thanks for the $35,000. Since we didn't meet the goal of $80,000. We will be using your money to create only only Figure from the kickstarter.
Is their a way to back out of the preorder on the PWTT kickstarter if the goal is not met. and before PWTT uses all the money to make just one toy instead of 20 different toys.
Just some advice, Backers can call their credit card companies and change their credit card account numbers. To prevent PWTT from charging their credit cards.
From the little bit that I know about kickstarter, they dont charge your credit cards unless they reach their initial goal. Its like a pre order but instead of the investors putting their money on the line like real businessmen, they dump the production costs on the fans in a group effort. If the project fails, then the company writes a politically correct e-mail blaming the fandom in general for lack of support. And everybody who did support gets a pat on the back. Thats a crappy business model in my opinion. Sure it can work and make some broke designers pipe dreams a reality. But unlike the traditional route, the kickstarter concept is risk free. Its basically the anti-entrapanuer route. Im negative about it because I like to see talk backed up by the talkers own money.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon wrote: Seriously, you two (X and Tsut) have been spamming this thread to no end with your negative comments. We all know your positions on the figures and Kickstarter. When will you be willing to leave over and let the rest of us talk about this without the incessant negativity? You are really not contributing anything more to the thread.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Agamemnon wrote: Seriously, you two (X and Tsut) have been spamming this thread to no end with your negative comments. We all know your positions on the figures and Kickstarter. When will you be willing to leave over and let the rest of us talk about this without the incessant negativity? You are really not contributing anything more to the thread.
I'm pretty sure if KFC creates anymore Masterpiece TF toys. Those KFC MP threads will be dominated by others with mostly bashing comments on the toys.
Scaleface wrote:BTW - 43% to the goal! The web sites Kicktraq.com and Kickspy.com are both reporting their that they expect this Kickstarter campaign will reach it's goals and unlock several stretch goals before the end. They estimate at least the first two goals on Kickspy and say there is potential for most of the goals on Kicktraq.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Scaleface wrote:The trolling with lies about how Kickstarter works hidden in the forms of questions is annoying and obvious.
For the non-trolls, I just started WikiAlpha pages for Calaminous Haagenti and King Adder.
http://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/Calaminous_Haagenti
http://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/King_Adder
BTW - 43% to the goal! The web sites Kicktraq.com and Kickspy.com are both reporting their that they expect this Kickstarter campaign will reach it's goals and unlock several stretch goals before the end. They estimate at least the first two goals on Kickspy and say there is potential for most of the goals on Kicktraq.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Scaleface wrote:The trolling with lies about how Kickstarter works hidden in the forms of questions is annoying and obvious.
For the non-trolls, I just started WikiAlpha pages for Calaminous Haagenti and King Adder.
http://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/Calaminous_Haagenti
http://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/King_Adder
BTW - 43% to the goal! The web sites Kicktraq.com and Kickspy.com are both reporting their that they expect this Kickstarter campaign will reach it's goals and unlock several stretch goals before the end. They estimate at least the first two goals on Kickspy and say there is potential for most of the goals on Kicktraq.
You forgot to mention the most important data for this Kickstarter. The first 12 hours of day One saw the biggest money pledges, around 80%. While the second 12 hours of the first day saw a steep decline in sales pledges, around barely 20%.
If the steep decline in money pledges continues, Then it's easy to speculate based on the data. This kickstarter will not reach it's Eighty Grand goal.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon wrote:Rated X wrote:Tsutsukakushi wrote::-? If the Kickstarter does not reach it's Eighty grand goal. What becomes of the money from the backers? Does PWTT keep the money and tell everyone T-shirts are coming thanks for your support?
Is PWTT allowed to keep the money from the backers and use it towards a restarted kickstarter goal count down?
Can PWTT say thanks for the $35,000. Since we didn't meet the goal of $80,000. We will be using your money to create only only Figure from the kickstarter.
Is their a way to back out of the preorder on the PWTT kickstarter if the goal is not met. and before PWTT uses all the money to make just one toy instead of 20 different toys.
Just some advice, Backers can call their credit card companies and change their credit card account numbers. To prevent PWTT from charging their credit cards.
From the little bit that I know about kickstarter, they dont charge your credit cards unless they reach their initial goal. Its like a pre order but instead of the investors putting their money on the line like real businessmen, they dump the production costs on the fans in a group effort. If the project fails, then the company writes a politically correct e-mail blaming the fandom in general for lack of support. And everybody who did support gets a pat on the back. Thats a crappy business model in my opinion. Sure it can work and make some broke designers pipe dreams a reality. But unlike the traditional route, the kickstarter concept is risk free. Its basically the anti-entrapanuer route. Im negative about it because I like to see talk backed up by the talkers own money.
You couldn't be more wrong, X. Kickstarter is about as pro-entrepreneur as possible. We've been around and around about this before. Why do you continue to think like this? There is really zero risk for us that back the Kickstarter. Are you really put off about receiving a letter stating that there wasn't enough support? Because that's probably the only negative we backers will have, other than the disappointment about not getting the figure or figures we'd like to see. There is literally no risk of backers losing money because the goal is not met.
This is also low risk for the project authors as they get to gather the interest from the fandom in a real way. They are only out the time and money to get things to a stage to run the kickstarter.
Seriously, you two (X and Tsut) have been spamming this thread to no end with your negative comments. We all know your positions on the figures and Kickstarter. When will you be willing to leave over and let the rest of us talk about this without the incessant negativity? You are really not contributing anything more to the thread.
Thank you in advance!
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon wrote:So, let me see if I have this correct, X. You object to the order in which the money flows, am I correct? Are these the two scenarios in which you are saying that one is okay by your standards and the other is not?
Scenario 1, X-preferred
PWTToo invests $80k into tooling and production of figures, which they do not know the interest of outside of comments on Facebook and, perhaps, pre-orders at retail locations. (I am leaving out other costs as they would likely be incurred regardless of which method is used.) Production quantities are based on market research and best guesses. Then, customers purchase the products at a retail location, with potentially left over stock or shortages based on how accurate the guesses were earlier. PWTToo only receives money based on what is ordered from them by the retailers. Left over stock is either absorbed by the retailers or sent back to the manufacturer. Costs to the end customer may be about the same. (Let's say they are for the sake of this argument, to limit the number of variables.)
Scenario 2, Kickstarter backed
PWTToo sets $80k as a goal on Kickstarter. People pledge money to the Kickstarter, allowing PWTToo tpo see the number of "confirmed" sales. (No possibility of customer backing out of pre-order like might happen in the above scenario.) Production quantities are based on the actual interest from customers. Little to no overages are expected (with the exception of any stores that would purchase quantities to sell directly to customers). If interest is not there, with the $80k goal not met, then no production happens, and PWTToo and the customers are not out the $80k. (I haven't checked the fine print at Kickstarter. I assume there is a percentage of the goal that Kickstarter gets, but I do not know if this is collected regardless of meeting goal. So, PWTToo might be out this money, which could be a factor.)
Am I missing anything in either scenario? Now, tell me, which one do you think is non-friendly to entrepreneurs? Which one is too risky to customers?
I am really trying to understand your opposition to the whole Kickstarter concept, and to this project in particular. I do apologize to everyone if this is too far off-topic. I'll be happy to take this discussion to PM, X, if you want...
Thanks
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Agamemnon wrote:So, let me see if I have this correct, X. You object to the order in which the money flows, am I correct? Are these the two scenarios in which you are saying that one is okay by your standards and the other is not?
Scenario 1, X-preferred
PWTToo invests $80k into tooling and production of figures, which they do not know the interest of outside of comments on Facebook and, perhaps, pre-orders at retail locations. (I am leaving out other costs as they would likely be incurred regardless of which method is used.) Production quantities are based on market research and best guesses. Then, customers purchase the products at a retail location, with potentially left over stock or shortages based on how accurate the guesses were earlier. PWTToo only receives money based on what is ordered from them by the retailers. Left over stock is either absorbed by the retailers or sent back to the manufacturer. Costs to the end customer may be about the same. (Let's say they are for the sake of this argument, to limit the number of variables.)
Scenario 2, Kickstarter backed
PWTToo sets $80k as a goal on Kickstarter. People pledge money to the Kickstarter, allowing PWTToo tpo see the number of "confirmed" sales. (No possibility of customer backing out of pre-order like might happen in the above scenario.) Production quantities are based on the actual interest from customers. Little to no overages are expected (with the exception of any stores that would purchase quantities to sell directly to customers). If interest is not there, with the $80k goal not met, then no production happens, and PWTToo and the customers are not out the $80k. (I haven't checked the fine print at Kickstarter. I assume there is a percentage of the goal that Kickstarter gets, but I do not know if this is collected regardless of meeting goal. So, PWTToo might be out this money, which could be a factor.)
Am I missing anything in either scenario? Now, tell me, which one do you think is non-friendly to entrepreneurs? Which one is too risky to customers?
I am really trying to understand your opposition to the whole Kickstarter concept, and to this project in particular. I do apologize to everyone if this is too far off-topic. I'll be happy to take this discussion to PM, X, if you want...
Thanks
How about the other option that most fans guess some 3rd party companies use to fund their projects.
Which is having some imports sites do preorders for almost a year or having import sites put up the funds to pay for the projects.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Many fans speculate that BBTS, TFsource, Chimungmung and other sites fund some of these 3rd party projects months or year in advance. Read somewhere that some 3rd parties require that some import sites buy a certain number of units in advance like retailers do. So these 3rd parties can lower the cost on each toy by making more toys at the factory on the assembly runs. Wondering if PWTT tried this option. or if they did and got no's from some imports sites.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Other options, Could of been PWTT partnering up with a few conventions. To sell some of their PWTT toys exclusively at these conventions. Think these Conventions might have been willing to pay for everything almost a year in advance.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:The last and obvious option. Could of been PWTT creating a selling web site. Where they created pre-orders for these PWTT toys. Then told everyone when you do a preorder, you pay for the item instantly. then say, if the number of sales is not their for production, then everyone will get their money refunded.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Like some here are guessing.
Tsutsukakushi wrote:It might be a bit risky trying to fund a project on Kickstarter. as they might take a huge percentage of sales. Maybe charge a big fee for using their site regardless if the kickstarter gets funded or not.
Would really like PWTT or someone else who has experiences with doing stuff on Kickstarter. to explain the fees if any, that Kickstarter charges when buyers do business with them.
Wikipedia wrote:Kickstarter applies a 5% fee on the total amount of the funds raised.[26] Their payments processor applies an additional 3–5% fee.[27] Unlike many forums for fundraising or investment, Kickstarter claims no ownership over the projects and the work they produce. The web pages of projects launched on the site are permanently archived and accessible to the public. After funding is completed, projects and uploaded media cannot be edited or removed from the site.[28]
Kickstarter FAQ wrote:If a project is successfully funded, Kickstarter applies a 5% fee to the funds collected. Our payments processor will also apply payment processing fees (roughly 3-5%). The complete fee breakdowns are available here.
If funding isn't successful, there are no fees.
Wikipedia wrote:There is no guarantee that people who post projects on Kickstarter will deliver on their projects, use the money to implement their projects, or that the completed projects will meet backers' expectations. Kickstarter advises backers to use their own judgment on supporting a project. They also warn project leaders that they could be liable for legal damages from backers for failure to deliver on promises.[29] Projects might also fail even after a successful fund raise when creators underestimate the total costs required or technical difficulties to be overcome.[30][31]
Kickstarter FAQ wrote:It works. Of the projects that have reached 20% of their funding goal, 81% were successfully funded. Of the projects that have reached 60% of their funding goal, 98% were successfully funded. Projects either make their goal or find little support. There's little in-between.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon wrote:Tsutsukakushi wrote:Agamemnon wrote:So, let me see if I have this correct, X. You object to the order in which the money flows, am I correct? Are these the two scenarios in which you are saying that one is okay by your standards and the other is not?
Scenario 1, X-preferred
PWTToo invests $80k into tooling and production of figures, which they do not know the interest of outside of comments on Facebook and, perhaps, pre-orders at retail locations. (I am leaving out other costs as they would likely be incurred regardless of which method is used.) Production quantities are based on market research and best guesses. Then, customers purchase the products at a retail location, with potentially left over stock or shortages based on how accurate the guesses were earlier. PWTToo only receives money based on what is ordered from them by the retailers. Left over stock is either absorbed by the retailers or sent back to the manufacturer. Costs to the end customer may be about the same. (Let's say they are for the sake of this argument, to limit the number of variables.)
Scenario 2, Kickstarter backed
PWTToo sets $80k as a goal on Kickstarter. People pledge money to the Kickstarter, allowing PWTToo tpo see the number of "confirmed" sales. (No possibility of customer backing out of pre-order like might happen in the above scenario.) Production quantities are based on the actual interest from customers. Little to no overages are expected (with the exception of any stores that would purchase quantities to sell directly to customers). If interest is not there, with the $80k goal not met, then no production happens, and PWTToo and the customers are not out the $80k. (I haven't checked the fine print at Kickstarter. I assume there is a percentage of the goal that Kickstarter gets, but I do not know if this is collected regardless of meeting goal. So, PWTToo might be out this money, which could be a factor.)
Am I missing anything in either scenario? Now, tell me, which one do you think is non-friendly to entrepreneurs? Which one is too risky to customers?
I am really trying to understand your opposition to the whole Kickstarter concept, and to this project in particular. I do apologize to everyone if this is too far off-topic. I'll be happy to take this discussion to PM, X, if you want...
Thanks
How about the other option that most fans guess some 3rd party companies use to fund their projects.
Which is having some imports sites do preorders for almost a year or having import sites put up the funds to pay for the projects.
How is this different from the scenarios I mentioned above, particularly the first one?
[Edit] So, I thought about this again, and it's a combination of the first and second. Really, it's not a whole lot different than the Kickstarter, with the absence of backers like me, and only backers like BBTS. But, I'd like to get in on it too...Tsutsukakushi wrote:Many fans speculate that BBTS, TFsource, Chimungmung and other sites fund some of these 3rd party projects months or year in advance. Read somewhere that some 3rd parties require that some import sites buy a certain number of units in advance like retailers do. So these 3rd parties can lower the cost on each toy by making more toys at the factory on the assembly runs. Wondering if PWTT tried this option. or if they did and got no's from some imports sites.
How is this more entrepreneur friendly than the Kickstarter? That was Rated X's premise...Tsutsukakushi wrote:Other options, Could of been PWTT partnering up with a few conventions. To sell some of their PWTT toys exclusively at these conventions. Think these Conventions might have been willing to pay for everything almost a year in advance.
This is a possibility, but in my opinion, it is not a better option than the Kickstarter.Tsutsukakushi wrote:The last and obvious option. Could of been PWTT creating a selling web site. Where they created pre-orders for these PWTT toys. Then told everyone when you do a preorder, you pay for the item instantly. then say, if the number of sales is not their for production, then everyone will get their money refunded.
This is virtually what is happening with the Kickstarter, except for the part of needing to refund the money. Again, it would seem that the Kickstarter is much preferable to this option.Tsutsukakushi wrote:Like some here are guessing.
How about if you just use your own opinion instead of trying to validate it by speaking for others?Tsutsukakushi wrote:It might be a bit risky trying to fund a project on Kickstarter. as they might take a huge percentage of sales. Maybe charge a big fee for using their site regardless if the kickstarter gets funded or not.
Would really like PWTT or someone else who has experiences with doing stuff on Kickstarter. to explain the fees if any, that Kickstarter charges when buyers do business with them.
As has been stated multiple times, there is little to no risk. Okay, I'll do the legwork for you...Wikipedia wrote:Kickstarter applies a 5% fee on the total amount of the funds raised.[26] Their payments processor applies an additional 3–5% fee.[27] Unlike many forums for fundraising or investment, Kickstarter claims no ownership over the projects and the work they produce. The web pages of projects launched on the site are permanently archived and accessible to the public. After funding is completed, projects and uploaded media cannot be edited or removed from the site.[28]Kickstarter FAQ wrote:If a project is successfully funded, Kickstarter applies a 5% fee to the funds collected. Our payments processor will also apply payment processing fees (roughly 3-5%). The complete fee breakdowns are available here.
If funding isn't successful, there are no fees.
So, that should answer that question. But I found a couple of other interesting nuggets...Wikipedia wrote:There is no guarantee that people who post projects on Kickstarter will deliver on their projects, use the money to implement their projects, or that the completed projects will meet backers' expectations. Kickstarter advises backers to use their own judgment on supporting a project. They also warn project leaders that they could be liable for legal damages from backers for failure to deliver on promises.[29] Projects might also fail even after a successful fund raise when creators underestimate the total costs required or technical difficulties to be overcome.[30][31]
Indeed, this is probably the only risk, and there are legal avenues if the project is found to be fraudulent. Heck, this happens in traditional investment projects too. Check out the movie Tucker, the Man and His Dream, a fantastic movie on the real life story of the Tucker car, and you'll get an idea of what the consequences are for failing to pull through on a project.Kickstarter FAQ wrote:It works. Of the projects that have reached 20% of their funding goal, 81% were successfully funded. Of the projects that have reached 60% of their funding goal, 98% were successfully funded. Projects either make their goal or find little support. There's little in-between.
This is really encouraging for PWTToo!
Now, it took some time to put this together, so my apologies if I am repeating what someone else said in response before I could post.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Burn wrote:Before Kickstarter, if a company wanted to start up, they had to get investment from some where, most likely banks.
If the business didn't hold up it's end of the deal, the bank would step in, sell up assets, and absorb any losses. Workers and suppliers also lost out.
Kickstarter guarantees a return for investors. Kickstarter start ups do their maths, they work out how much money they need to meet their promises AND make a profit for themselves.
If they don't get the money, the project doesn't proceed. They lose the time they invested in preparing the business model.
So yes, PWTT have taken a financial risk by investing their time (and no doubt some of their own money) to come up with this Kickstarter proposal.
Also, lay off Scaleface. If he chooses to only post about PWTT that's his decision. It is NOT your place to question his motives. Any further discussion on THAT particular matter will be considered harassment and appropriate action will be taken.
Agamemnon wrote:So, let me see if I have this correct, X. You object to the order in which the money flows, am I correct? Are these the two scenarios in which you are saying that one is okay by your standards and the other is not?
Scenario 1, X-preferred
PWTToo invests $80k into tooling and production of figures, which they do not know the interest of outside of comments on Facebook and, perhaps, pre-orders at retail locations. (I am leaving out other costs as they would likely be incurred regardless of which method is used.) Production quantities are based on market research and best guesses. Then, customers purchase the products at a retail location, with potentially left over stock or shortages based on how accurate the guesses were earlier. PWTToo only receives money based on what is ordered from them by the retailers. Left over stock is either absorbed by the retailers or sent back to the manufacturer. Costs to the end customer may be about the same. (Let's say they are for the sake of this argument, to limit the number of variables.)
Scenario 2, Kickstarter backed
PWTToo sets $80k as a goal on Kickstarter. People pledge money to the Kickstarter, allowing PWTToo tpo see the number of "confirmed" sales. (No possibility of customer backing out of pre-order like might happen in the above scenario.) Production quantities are based on the actual interest from customers. Little to no overages are expected (with the exception of any stores that would purchase quantities to sell directly to customers). If interest is not there, with the $80k goal not met, then no production happens, and PWTToo and the customers are not out the $80k. (I haven't checked the fine print at Kickstarter. I assume there is a percentage of the goal that Kickstarter gets, but I do not know if this is collected regardless of meeting goal. So, PWTToo might be out this money, which could be a factor.)
Am I missing anything in either scenario? Now, tell me, which one do you think is non-friendly to entrepreneurs? Which one is too risky to customers?
I am really trying to understand your opposition to the whole Kickstarter concept, and to this project in particular. I do apologize to everyone if this is too far off-topic. I'll be happy to take this discussion to PM, X, if you want...
Thanks
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Burn wrote:There's nothing new about this at all. People have been investing money into start up companies for decades, hell, they've probably been doing it longer.
This is just a DIFFERENT way of doing it.
Sure it would be great to already have the money to start up a business, but why should those who have a great idea but no money not be denied the opportunity to get a bit of a hand up?
What world would we be living in if all ideas relied solely on the already rich?
Seriously ... I'm going to be "outspoken", but only the already rich should be allowed to invest? That's **** stupid.
Agamemnon wrote:So, you're saying unless I have money, I should not be an entrepreneur? Most have to "beg money" from someone to invest. Traditionally that's banks. Sometimes that's rich "friends." How is this any different? Yes, it's a clever new way to find investors, but it's very innovative. And no one is forcing us to invest. It's all voluntary.
Just because it's new and unfamiliar doesn't really warrant such name calling, does it?
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