Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[RevTibe]

I am of the party of "as long as the story works and the writing is good, I'll enjoy it and go with it." What we have here in the current ongoings is a great example of world building and actually attempting to create a transformers universe that is more than war. Transformers doesn't always need to be about war.

Agreed - for me, one of the biggest draws of the Transformers franchise is having a big bag of colourful characters (figuratively and literally!) interacting in entertaining ways, so for me, a post-war setting strengthens my favorite part of Transformers. Silly little things like Blurr giving Swindle a friendly noogie, or Ravage and Bluestreak having a good chinwag. Post-war setting strengthens my favorite part of Transformers.

Roberts stuff was good but it's completely disturbing with the homosexual material.

You're starting to border into behaviour I am not a fan of.
Disagreement, even visceral - if you really must - is fine. Labelling homosexuality, gender issues, social commentary as 'disturbing' or 'making you sick' is not.

Grow up, I can have an opinion.

And labeling "homosexual material" as "disturbing" is the opinion of a mature adult?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I am of the party of "as long as the story works and the writing is good, I'll enjoy it and go with it." What we have here in the current ongoings is a great example of world building and actually attempting to create a transformers universe that is more than war. Transformers doesn't always need to be about war.

Agreed - for me, one of the biggest draws of the Transformers franchise is having a big bag of colourful characters (figuratively and literally!) interacting in entertaining ways, so for me, a post-war setting strengthens my favorite part of Transformers. Silly little things like Blurr giving Swindle a friendly noogie, or Ravage and Bluestreak having a good chinwag. Post-war setting strengthens my favorite part of Transformers.

The post war stuff has given plenty of opportunity to really show who these bots and cons are. at times, the lines really blurr. Blurr's and Swerve's are great settings for that, and the fact that this book is mainly centered on Cybertron and it's colonies excites me, since we get to see all that post war stuff, and people who have never known war, and so many different continuities being brought in. I look forward to more beast wars stuff.

[RevTibe]

The post war stuff has given plenty of opportunity to really show who these bots and cons are. at times, the lines really blurr. Blurr's and Swerve's are great settings for that, and the fact that this book is mainly centered on Cybertron and it's colonies excites me, since we get to see all that post war stuff, and people who have never known war, and so many different continuities being brought in. I look forward to more beast wars stuff.

Yeah, it's pretty great what the authors can do when half the cast isn't obligated to kill the other half! The different approaches they've taken to antagonism have been interesting - while the "Two or three developed violent villains, maybe some mooks" approach is serviceable with Tarn and Galvatron, the political semi-antagonist angle Starscream's taken is pretty great (come to think of it, the Windblade books are probably the most positive presentation the character's ever gotten). Of course, with 2-3 ongoings, we don't need to choose. Looking forward to more Eukaris/Beast Planet, although I expect the Carcer/Tempo question may be the primary colony plotline.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I'm also looking forward to seeing what comes of Ghost Bee and Ebenscreamer Scrooge

[Optimizzy]

Psst. I also have an agenda. It's why I infiltrated Seibertron in the first place.

Once I am ruler of everything, there will be no new comics. Only comics adaptations of Das Kapital. With robots.

Lol. Vaal you crazy man. You crazy.

Personally I like Scott. She's bringing in a LOT of stuff. I think Roberts is a better world builder but she's ok. My ONLY problem is how rushed the last story was. Each world should have had its own miniseries. I hope that's what we will get here. And I'm fine with a talking head comic. Action is in the main series. This is about politics. I mean it's more house of cards than White House falling down or whatever that movie was called.

[Va'al]

Psst. I also have an agenda. It's why I infiltrated Seibertron in the first place.

Once I am ruler of everything, there will be no new comics. Only comics adaptations of Das Kapital. With robots.

Lol. Vaal you crazy man. You crazy.

Am I..? We already had Orion Pax quoting Tony Benn...

[Prowl4]

Grow up, I can have an opinion.

You can have an opinion, but you need to be respectful. Not everyone will agree with you, telling people to "grow up" is blatantly disrespectful.

Have a warning.

Oh yeah but when my opinion is disrespected it's cool.

Thank you for the warning I appreciate that.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Am I..? We already had Orion Pax quoting Tony Benn...

One of my favorite scenes from that period. Loved the whole chaos theory storyline.

[Madeus Prime]

*Sniffs* Ahh smell that air! Angry fanboys, burning prejudice, latent sexism, and just a hint of "get over yourselves, they are comics, enjoy them if you want, hate them if you want, just don't pull real life issues you have into it"

[Va'al]

*Sniffs* Ahh smell that air! Angry fanboys, burning prejudice, latent sexism, and just a hint of "get over yourselves, they are comics, enjoy them if you want, hate them if you want, just don't pull real life issues you have into it"

Unnecessary, please don't.

[Va'al]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

[1984forever]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

I think the article was horrible. Mcfeely beat around the bush.

[RevTibe]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

I think the article was horrible. Mcfeely beat around the bush.

How so? The first paragraph was a list of the positives and negatives he finds in her writing, the second paragraph gave a brief overview of his thoughts on two major camps of critique of her writing. Cutting anything from it would have denied the reader useful information.

[1984forever]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

I think the article was horrible. Mcfeely beat around the bush.

How so? The first paragraph was a list of the positives and negatives he finds in her writing, the second paragraph gave a brief overview of his thoughts on two major camps of critique of her writing. Cutting anything from it would have denied the reader useful information.

His criticism didn't go deep enough.

The problem at IDW is their attempts to make Transformers more human. We have stuff like Chromia and Prowl being terrorists because IDW wants to get rid of labels like heroic and evil and show the shades in between so people can relate to them more. Well, I can't relate to terrorists.

Nearly everyone is evil in IDW. The whole reason they have for starting the war is stupid. Ending it only led to more foolishness. The war ended so Autobot Blurr can give Combaticon Swindle a noogie and Starscream could rule Cybertron with a fist made of tin foil.

Wow. Great stuff

[D-Maximal_Primal]

If you hate it so much, why are you still discussing it? Several of us really like the way things are going and it makes for great storylines. I've seen that issues 50-present (because that's when people started posting them on twitter) are actually selling around numbers 2-8 on the list of comic sales. Issue 52 made #3 for a while. It is good stuff, and the sales numbers are showing it

[RevTibe]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

I think the article was horrible. Mcfeely beat around the bush.

How so? The first paragraph was a list of the positives and negatives he finds in her writing, the second paragraph gave a brief overview of his thoughts on two major camps of critique of her writing. Cutting anything from it would have denied the reader useful information.

His criticism didn't go deep enough.

The problem at IDW is their attempts to make Transformers more human. We have stuff like Chromia and Prowl being terrorists because IDW wants to get rid of labels like heroic and evil and show the shades in between so people can relate to them more. Well, I can't relate to terrorists.

Nearly everyone is evil in IDW. The whole reason they have for starting the war is stupid. Ending it only led to more foolishness. The war ended so Autobot Blurr can give Combaticon Swindle a noogie and Starscream could rule Cybertron with a fist made of tin foil.

Wow. Great stuff

Transformers have been super-humanized from day 1. Jazz, Blaster's radio-DJ voice shtick, Autobots all having a big snowball fight etc, all that kitschy 80s stuff.

Not sure how Nautica's a terrorist? Maybe you meant Chromia, but a mix up like that isn't exactly inspiring faith in your evaluation of the characters. Most of the Autobots are still fairly positive characters, and many Decepticons now have a nicer side to them too!

Prowl's definitely a darker character than previous depictions, what with his Machiavellian approach. It's fine if you can't find certain villain archetypes engaging, but that may be your own limitation, rather than the work's (and hey, the G1 'cons were pretty terrorist-esque, bombing Earth and Cybertron buildings, taking hostages etc).

I'm not sure how IDW's start of the war is stupid - the revolt of an oppressed caste taking a more destructive turn as its leader becomes increasingly tyrannical is much more interesting than "Autobots are born nice, Decepticons are born mean, they have a war!"

[1984forever]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

I think the article was horrible. Mcfeely beat around the bush.

How so? The first paragraph was a list of the positives and negatives he finds in her writing, the second paragraph gave a brief overview of his thoughts on two major camps of critique of her writing. Cutting anything from it would have denied the reader useful information.

His criticism didn't go deep enough.

The problem at IDW is their attempts to make Transformers more human. We have stuff like Chromia and Prowl being terrorists because IDW wants to get rid of labels like heroic and evil and show the shades in between so people can relate to them more. Well, I can't relate to terrorists.

Nearly everyone is evil in IDW. The whole reason they have for starting the war is stupid. Ending it only led to more foolishness. The war ended so Autobot Blurr can give Combaticon Swindle a noogie and Starscream could rule Cybertron with a fist made of tin foil.

Wow. Great stuff

Transformers have been super-humanized from day 1. Jazz, Blaster's radio-DJ voice shtick, Autobots all having a big snowball fight etc, all that kitschy 80s stuff.

Not sure how Nautica's a terrorist? Maybe you meant Chromia, but a mix up like that isn't exactly inspiring faith in your evaluation of the characters. Most of the Autobots are still fairly positive characters, and many Decepticons now have a nicer side to them too!

Prowl's definitely a darker character than previous depictions, what with his Machiavellian approach. It's fine if you can't find certain villain archetypes engaging, but that may be your own limitation, rather than the work's (and hey, the G1 'cons were pretty terrorist-esque, bombing Earth and Cybertron buildings, taking hostages etc).

I'm not sure how IDW's start of the war is stupid - the revolt of an oppressed caste taking a more destructive turn as its leader becomes increasingly tyrannical is much more interesting than "Autobots are born nice, Decepticons are born mean, they have a war!"

1) I never said Nautica.

2)Real Transformers are built.

3) Fighting over Energon and the territories that can provide it is a good reason to start a war. Trashing the planet because you want to do aerial photography but you're not qualified because you have a drill on your alt mode is stupid!

[RevTibe]

This is a good example of how to disagree with or criticise a writer.

http://chrismcfeely.tumblr.com/post/144 ... ive-seen-a

I think the article was horrible. Mcfeely beat around the bush.

How so? The first paragraph was a list of the positives and negatives he finds in her writing, the second paragraph gave a brief overview of his thoughts on two major camps of critique of her writing. Cutting anything from it would have denied the reader useful information.

His criticism didn't go deep enough.

The problem at IDW is their attempts to make Transformers more human. We have stuff like Chromia and Prowl being terrorists because IDW wants to get rid of labels like heroic and evil and show the shades in between so people can relate to them more. Well, I can't relate to terrorists.

Nearly everyone is evil in IDW. The whole reason they have for starting the war is stupid. Ending it only led to more foolishness. The war ended so Autobot Blurr can give Combaticon Swindle a noogie and Starscream could rule Cybertron with a fist made of tin foil.

Wow. Great stuff

Transformers have been super-humanized from day 1. Jazz, Blaster's radio-DJ voice shtick, Autobots all having a big snowball fight etc, all that kitschy 80s stuff.

Not sure how Nautica's a terrorist? Maybe you meant Chromia, but a mix up like that isn't exactly inspiring faith in your evaluation of the characters. Most of the Autobots are still fairly positive characters, and many Decepticons now have a nicer side to them too!

Prowl's definitely a darker character than previous depictions, what with his Machiavellian approach. It's fine if you can't find certain villain archetypes engaging, but that may be your own limitation, rather than the work's (and hey, the G1 'cons were pretty terrorist-esque, bombing Earth and Cybertron buildings, taking hostages etc).

I'm not sure how IDW's start of the war is stupid - the revolt of an oppressed caste taking a more destructive turn as its leader becomes increasingly tyrannical is much more interesting than "Autobots are born nice, Decepticons are born mean, they have a war!"

1) I never said Nautica.

2)Real Transformers are built.

3) Fighting over Energon and the territories that can provide it is a good reason to start a war. Trashing the planet because you want to do aerial photography but you're not qualified because you have a drill on your alt mode is stupid!

What are your thoughts on the humanization/terrorist points? Both things were quite present in G1, which seems to be your yardstick for ideal TF fiction.

On point 3 - the alt mode thing essentially pushed TFs into borderline slave labor - that's worth getting angry about!

Resource wars can be interesting (IDW includes several resource/territory-based battles!), but G1's stance of "Decepticons are born bad, Autobots are born good." doesn't make for interesting characters. Some of the most interesting G1 Decepticons were those that ignored that!

(My apologies on the Nautica mix-up - certainly backfired on me!)

[1984forever]

The Autobots were just imitating humans when they got to earth. Jazz saying that "the dark side of Cybertron is blacker than the inside of a drive shaft" is something that can be said on Cybertron.

The Decepticons can be terrorists because they're EVIL Decepticons. Any Autobot that blows up other Autobots really wants to be a 'con.

[RevTibe]

The Autobots were just imitating humans when they got to earth. Jazz saying that "the dark side of Cybertron is blacker than the inside of a drive shaft" is something that can be said on Cybertron.

They are incredibly humanized. Here's a picture of a non-humanized service-oriented machine;

Transformers are humanized because they have humanoid bodies. They are humanized because they have human-like emotions. When we see Cybertron's past, we see dancers, pole-vaulters and gladiators - that's humanization. When we're shown enslaved Transformers, the Quintessons are striking them with a whip - that's a symbol rooted in human history. Transformers are positively dripping with humanization.

The Decepticons can be terrorists because they're EVIL Decepticons. Any Autobot that blows up other Autobots really wants to be a 'con.

Black and white good guys and bad guys is sort of okay for children's cartoons (although the better child-focused Transformers stuff still dabbled with greys), but it's silly to look for a dull Saturday morning cartoon morality in one of the older-oriented areas of Transformers fiction.

[Prowl4]

The relationship stuff particularly the homosexual stuff is quite off putting. I'm ok with chromedome and rewind but there's a lot of it lately between other bots.

[1984forever]

The Autobots were just imitating humans when they got to earth. Jazz saying that "the dark side of Cybertron is blacker than the inside of a drive shaft" is something that can be said on Cybertron.

They are incredibly humanized. Here's a picture of a non-humanized service-oriented machine;

Transformers are humanized because they have humanoid bodies. They are humanized because they have human-like emotions. When we see Cybertron's past, we see dancers, pole-vaulters and gladiators - that's humanization. When we're shown enslaved Transformers, the Quintessons are striking them with a whip - that's a symbol rooted in human history. Transformers are positively dripping with humanization.

The Decepticons can be terrorists because they're EVIL Decepticons. Any Autobot that blows up other Autobots really wants to be a 'con.

Black and white good guys and bad guys is sort of okay for children's cartoons (although the better child-focused Transformers stuff still dabbled with greys), but it's silly to look for a dull Saturday morning cartoon morality in one of the older-oriented areas of Transformers fiction.

i don't see what's wrong with machines being built for a purpose. Ambulances are built to save lives. Guns are made to take lives. Robots being born out of the ground is a dumb idea. The writers at IDW will struggle to make these "births" believable to the readers in the future.

So it's back to my original point. IDWs attempt to make the Transformers more human makes for dumb storylines.

As for the S3 stuff, it's stupid. G1 season 1 is the real deal.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

But really though, how many people think just robots are fun and can make long standing stories out of them? This is something very different.

The fact that the transformers have personalities, can make decisions on their own, show compassion, anger and other emotions is what helps make them so appealing. They stand out, they are larger than life beings that really are relate-able. Trying to do everything like the first 16 episodes of transformers ever would be boring. And saying that those weren't humanized is incredibly wrong. You have to mix it up, and to this end IDW has done a great job in recent years. It has made Transformers fun and relate-able, and heck they've even gotten comics included with the toys for a few years.

Point is, IDW has done new stuff, but humanization has been around since 84. That argument is really invalid. And times change. You may not like it, but they do, and that is really nothing to get angry about.

[RevTibe]

i don't see what's wrong with machines being built for a purpose.

What purpose required the Transformers to be built to look, act, feel, fight, play and think like humans? There is no rational reason - it's just to humanize them.

The writers at IDW will struggle to make these "births" believable to the readers in the future.

Transformers have had pseudo-mystical births since Beast Wars (although Vector Sigma also had an air of mysticism about it). Most people seem to be okay with it.

The relationship stuff particularly the homosexual stuff is quite off putting.

You just specified the gay relationships as being more offputting than the straight relationships - why?

[Prowl4]

i don't see what's wrong with machines being built for a purpose.

What purpose required the Transformers to be built to look, act, feel, fight, play and think like humans? There is no rational reason - it's just to humanize them.

The writers at IDW will struggle to make these "births" believable to the readers in the future.

Transformers have had pseudo-mystical births since Beast Wars (although Vector Sigma also had an air of mysticism about it). Most people seem to be okay with it.

The relationship stuff particularly the homosexual stuff is quite off putting.

You just specified the gay relationships as being more offputting than the straight relationships - why?

The gay relationship stuff is too frequent and in your face. The straight relationships haven't gone next to near how soppy and time consuming the gay ones have. It'd bother me if springer was hitting on or being soppy about arcee for example but the gay relationships are just too over the top.