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starfish wrote:Now, Sledge, I'm not sure I agree with Bay myself - It may well be that he's talking rubbish, I admit.

It just seems that someone here has to play devil's advocate and defend Bay against those that, for some reason, seem to have a definite grudge against him.

I'm not sure of the reason for this vitriol, but there's certainly no need to get wound up just because Bay happens to change the colour of one of your favourite G1 characters. I mean, no-ones forcing you to watch the films or buy the toys, are they now?

Transformers is always doing this. As previously mentioned, we've had a blue Go-Bot Sideswipe, a gold Beast Wars Prowl, and in G2 we had any number of different coloured Dinobots, Constructicons and Combaticons.

But when Bay does it, he gets it from both barrels, it would seem.

Now, I've had a pretty good stab at explaining why Bay might have chosen to avoid the colour red, from a technical point of view, but apparently this still isn't good enough for some people.

Oh well, think what you want. Just seems a bit petty and vindictive, is all.

You've explained the logic for Bay's point of view. I've explained why it's crap. Would you care to tell me why I'm wrong, or will you continue to insist I'm just mindlessly hating?

Sledge wrote:

starfish wrote:Now, Sledge, I'm not sure I agree with Bay myself - It may well be that he's talking rubbish, I admit.

It just seems that someone here has to play devil's advocate and defend Bay against those that, for some reason, seem to have a definite grudge against him.

I'm not sure of the reason for this vitriol, but there's certainly no need to get wound up just because Bay happens to change the colour of one of your favourite G1 characters. I mean, no-ones forcing you to watch the films or buy the toys, are they now?

Transformers is always doing this. As previously mentioned, we've had a blue Go-Bot Sideswipe, a gold Beast Wars Prowl, and in G2 we had any number of different coloured Dinobots, Constructicons and Combaticons.

But when Bay does it, he gets it from both barrels, it would seem.

Now, I've had a pretty good stab at explaining why Bay might have chosen to avoid the colour red, from a technical point of view, but apparently this still isn't good enough for some people.

Oh well, think what you want. Just seems a bit petty and vindictive, is all.

You've explained the logic for Bay's point of view. I've explained why it's crap. Would you care to tell me why I'm wrong, or will you continue to insist I'm just mindlessly hating?

easy Sledge... dont go breaking things now...

I can understand the technical aspects and the fact that bay could be talking crap, and I actually am in agreement with sledge because of one simple thing, no ne has actaully come up with a valid argument to why they think Sledge is in the wrong? I havent seen anything...

I would aslo like to point out that the majority of holywood's newest films are shot using the latest technological camera's. sometimes the director will choose the film that best brings out the atmosphere of the movie, and looking at the shiny colourfulness of the first film (well for its daylight scenes anyway, everything - all colours - were punched out i.e they were vibrant, but not oh my god thats in my face and burning my eyes vibrant, so a lot of the colours popped when they were against the city backgrounds.

Also you have to understand that the film will have been digitized for the inclusion of the transformers themselves, so there would have been final tweaks and alterations of colour in the post production program which would have or would give them the opportunity to make the colours fit into a more substantial manner.

So yes Sledge is right for calling bullshit on this because there is no substantiated argument for why he is wrong. Yes there are valid points for why Bay hasn't painted him red, but with all the post production mayhem that gets added for the final stuff before the film is released you would think or know that they could paint him red and have it be done with.

I always thought that Bay messed it up from the start and it is only getting worse. That is not even Sideswipe. That looks more like Tigertron on rollerskates more than anything else. I also don't like any of the robot designs at all. Boy, they all look ugly. I also don't like the idea of Optimus Prime and Jetfire merging together. Also don't like that new character the Fallen. Bet it is a ripoff of Apocalypse from Xmen. Transformers and pyramids. The more I hear the less I like it. Bay is even taking a long time releasing the trailer. Even he knows it won't sit well with alot of people. Why does Bay even bother making Armageddon movie commercials? Bay has nothing new to offer as a director.

I think we shouldn't complain about the new film before we've even seen it.

I can fully appreciate that many people on here dislike the design aesthetic for the movie Transformers, and that's completely understandable - after all, they are a big departure from what we're used to.

Also, I freely admit that most (if not all) of Bay's films are pretty much just mindless action films with little finesse or subtext, and sometimes terrible plot logic.

But that's what today's cinema-goers seem to like these days - lots of style, very little substance, and stories that serve only to get the characters from one action set-piece to the next.

It's fine to criticise Bay for all of the above, because those are fair points, which can be backed up with examples and debate and discussion. I would be happy to get into a really good argument with some of the hardcore Bay-haters on here about the problems within his films.

But it seems that such debate is too mature for some of the Bay-hate on here. Instead we get petty stuff like "I hate Bay because Sideswipe should be red!" or "I hate Bay because Optimus Prime should have less blue on him".

It's almost as if every directorial or design decision made by Bay is immediately jumped upon and used as a stick to beat him with.

I couldn't care less if Sideswipe was fluorescent pink and wore Hawaii shirts, as long as the film itself is well-made and engaging.

For all I care, Bay could include a homosexual Autobot who transforms into a toilet brush and call him 'Galvatron'. But if he did I wouldn't rush into any judgments before seeing the actual film.

And besides, if you think about it, Transformers fiction has always been full of plot holes and continuity glitches. You need only to experience sacrosanct fan 'classics' such as the 1986 animated movie, 'Call of the Primitives' or 'Target:2006' to realise that.

Bay's just faithfully following that long tradition.