Rated X wrote:I guess I’m gonna have to agree to disagree with you guys on KO’s and IP. You guys just seem to respect Hasbro corporate interests a lot more than I do. I respect the creators of G1, not the current IP owners. I doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand why I feel that way. It’s like if a recipe gets passed down for generations and is kept a family secret for 100 years. Sure the great grandson might own it, but don’t act like he created it. He’s just a stakeholder, nothing more. Some of you people act like the current Hasbro executives created G1. I don’t sugarcoat it. They’re 30 year old characters. My loyalty lies with the characters and they’re fiction, not the guys who profit off of it.
But if you hate KO’s so much do get caught being a hypocrite. When your car needs new air filter, go straight to the dealer and spend 50 bucks. Don’t get caught going to Auto Zone and supporting those horrible knockoffs. And when your printer runs out of ink, don’t be a criminal and refill your ink cartridge for 8 bucks at Walgreens. That’s cheating HP the inventors of the color printer. Make sure you pay them $21.99 to show you’re support for the corporation.
Rated X wrote:Some of you people act like the current Hasbro executives created G1.
My loyalty lies with the characters and they’re fiction, not the guys who profit off of it.
Rated X wrote:I guess I’m gonna have to agree to disagree with you guys on KO’s and IP. You guys just seem to respect Hasbro corporate interests a lot more than I do. I respect the creators of G1, not the current IP owners. I doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand why I feel that way. It’s like if a recipe gets passed down for generations and is kept a family secret for 100 years. Sure the great grandson might own it, but don’t act like he created it. He’s just a stakeholder, nothing more. Some of you people act like the current Hasbro executives created G1. I don’t sugarcoat it. They’re 30 year old characters. My loyalty lies with the characters and they’re fiction, not the guys who profit off of it.
Rated X wrote:But Hasbro is still getting rich off of G1 and isn't giving G1's creators a god damn penny.
You guys seem to show more loyalty to the copyright holders than to the actual fiction itself.
If I win Powerball next week and buy the Transformers brand from Hasbro, will you guys be as loyal to me just because I got a bunch of copyright papers in a vault ?
Should I flaunt my 30 year old copyrights and act like I created G1 while it's real creators cant even put food on the table ?
If a toy designer defects from Hasbro and starts a 3rd party company, do you guys consider him a traitor ?
Where does this silly loyalty to one company end ?
Im a Transformers fan, not a Hasbro fan. Let that be known.
And the Transformers universe is big enough for everyone to add something to the fiction whether the stockholders likes it or not.
Rated X wrote:I guess I’m gonna have to agree to disagree with you guys on KO’s and IP. You guys just seem to respect Hasbro corporate interests a lot more than I do. I respect the creators of G1, not the current IP owners. I doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand why I feel that way. It’s like if a recipe gets passed down for generations and is kept a family secret for 100 years. Sure the great grandson might own it, but don’t act like he created it. He’s just a stakeholder, nothing more. Some of you people act like the current Hasbro executives created G1. I don’t sugarcoat it. They’re 30 year old characters. My loyalty lies with the characters and they’re fiction, not the guys who profit off of it.
But if you hate KO’s so much do get caught being a hypocrite. When your car needs new air filter, go straight to the dealer and spend 50 bucks. Don’t get caught going to Auto Zone and supporting those horrible knockoffs. And when your printer runs out of ink, don’t be a criminal and refill your ink cartridge for 8 bucks at Walgreens. That’s cheating HP the inventors of the color printer. Make sure you pay them $21.99 to show you’re support for the corporation.
Autobot Genocide wrote:Im still buying these guess that makes me a bad person , i think people need to get a grip with all this ko **** . Its not gonna stop anytime soon get used to it.
Rated X wrote:You guys are just way too sensitive. What you guys consider "stolen" property I consider to be community property. Maybe back in the 80's I would have defended Hasbro and said KO's and 3rd parties were stealing Hasbro's property. But it's 2013 and G1 is 30 years old ! Lets copyright the wheel or the sundial while were at it ? I would be a little more sympathetic towards Hasbro if Bayformers or Rescue Bots were being KOed because those lines represent people that are actually on the Hasbro payroll. But Hasbro is still getting rich off of G1 and isn't giving G1's creators a god damn penny. So I say screw Hasbro, let the KO's roll !!!
You guys seem to show more loyalty to the copyright holders than to the actual fiction itself. Just because something that relates to Transformers isn't endorsed by Hasbro, that doesn't make it any less awesome. If I win Powerball next week and buy the Transformers brand from Hasbro, will you guys be as loyal to me just because I got a bunch of copyright papers in a vault ? Should I flaunt my 30 year old copyrights and act like I created G1 while it's real creators cant even put food on the table ? If a toy designer defects from Hasbro and starts a 3rd party company, do you guys consider him a traitor ? Where does this silly loyalty to one company end ? Im a Transformers fan, not a Hasbro fan. Let that be known. And the Transformers universe is big enough for everyone to add something to the fiction whether the stockholders likes it or not.
Rated X wrote:You guys are just way too sensitive. What you guys consider "stolen" property I consider to be community property.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:(...a lot of good stuff while I was likely in the middle of typing up the rant that was my last post.)
daimchoc wrote:Should I continue posting such news/articles? It seems to be putting our group at odds with each other...
daimchoc wrote:My putting the link just shows that it is real. Next time I should probably just say that MP-05 is getting KO'd and you'd all just believe it, right.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Rated X wrote:You guys are just way too sensitive. What you guys consider "stolen" property I consider to be community property. Maybe back in the 80's I would have defended Hasbro and said KO's and 3rd parties were stealing Hasbro's property. But it's 2013 and G1 is 30 years old ! Lets copyright the wheel or the sundial while were at it ? I would be a little more sympathetic towards Hasbro if Bayformers or Rescue Bots were being KOed because those lines represent people that are actually on the Hasbro payroll. But Hasbro is still getting rich off of G1 and isn't giving G1's creators a god damn penny. So I say screw Hasbro, let the KO's roll !!!
You guys seem to show more loyalty to the copyright holders than to the actual fiction itself. Just because something that relates to Transformers isn't endorsed by Hasbro, that doesn't make it any less awesome. If I win Powerball next week and buy the Transformers brand from Hasbro, will you guys be as loyal to me just because I got a bunch of copyright papers in a vault ? Should I flaunt my 30 year old copyrights and act like I created G1 while it's real creators cant even put food on the table ? If a toy designer defects from Hasbro and starts a 3rd party company, do you guys consider him a traitor ? Where does this silly loyalty to one company end ? Im a Transformers fan, not a Hasbro fan. Let that be known. And the Transformers universe is big enough for everyone to add something to the fiction whether the stockholders likes it or not.
Firstly, NONE OF THIS relates to this KO. This KO is based off a recent toy, not a 30 year old one. The current MP line is driven by supply and demand like anything else. If you undercut Takara like this we may not get any new MPs. Which isn't really good for the fans or those creatives behind each MP either.
You paint a lot of people who disagree with you with a VERY broad brush. Just based on where I post here I think you know what I've been collecting so far. Hint hint: we're in the 3rd Party forum! My attachment to Hasbro/Takara is a lot like yours: to the characters and universe and not necessarily to the company that owns it. Bu that doesn't mean I'm going to give the middle finger tothe company that owns it either! If they make something I want, sure I'll buy it. I don't see why you give a 3rd party company credit for making a toy you like, but not Hasbro/Takara (and we're in a thread about Takara being screwed over, if there's a difference to you).
I also find it odd that you SAY you support toy designers, but are VERY willing to buy KOs. I mean, KO companies don't pay those designers at all. Meanwhile it's known that the guy who made G1 Starscream in the Diaclone days worked on MP Starscream. So he's still employed at Takara (or at least was at the time of it's development). So how would buying a KO of Starscream support him? You're not buying from the company that either has employed him or is still employing him. You're just assuming designers have been tossed aside, but with the guy behind Starscream we KNOW that's not true.
In theory Takara and Hasbro knows which of it's designs are successful based on sales. So buying a recent KO helps them ... how? "Screw you Hasbro/Takara" doesn't help the creators find work. If anything it gives the message that the toys they helped to make don't sell and that the adult collector's market isn't profitable to sell to.
Really, underneath it all you just seem to wan to get the cheapest version available. And that's fine. I get that and it's a valid point of view. But the anti-corperate pro-creative angle is nonsensical. You get that creatives are hired by these corporate giants, right? And that if the giant falls, so do all the creatives you say you support. By saying "screw you Takara" you're also saying "screw you" to all the designers it's employed to make the figures you like.
Rated X wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:Rated X wrote:You guys are just way too sensitive. What you guys consider "stolen" property I consider to be community property. Maybe back in the 80's I would have defended Hasbro and said KO's and 3rd parties were stealing Hasbro's property. But it's 2013 and G1 is 30 years old ! Lets copyright the wheel or the sundial while were at it ? I would be a little more sympathetic towards Hasbro if Bayformers or Rescue Bots were being KOed because those lines represent people that are actually on the Hasbro payroll. But Hasbro is still getting rich off of G1 and isn't giving G1's creators a god damn penny. So I say screw Hasbro, let the KO's roll !!!
You guys seem to show more loyalty to the copyright holders than to the actual fiction itself. Just because something that relates to Transformers isn't endorsed by Hasbro, that doesn't make it any less awesome. If I win Powerball next week and buy the Transformers brand from Hasbro, will you guys be as loyal to me just because I got a bunch of copyright papers in a vault ? Should I flaunt my 30 year old copyrights and act like I created G1 while it's real creators cant even put food on the table ? If a toy designer defects from Hasbro and starts a 3rd party company, do you guys consider him a traitor ? Where does this silly loyalty to one company end ? Im a Transformers fan, not a Hasbro fan. Let that be known. And the Transformers universe is big enough for everyone to add something to the fiction whether the stockholders likes it or not.
Firstly, NONE OF THIS relates to this KO. This KO is based off a recent toy, not a 30 year old one. The current MP line is driven by supply and demand like anything else. If you undercut Takara like this we may not get any new MPs. Which isn't really good for the fans or those creatives behind each MP either.
You paint a lot of people who disagree with you with a VERY broad brush. Just based on where I post here I think you know what I've been collecting so far. Hint hint: we're in the 3rd Party forum! My attachment to Hasbro/Takara is a lot like yours: to the characters and universe and not necessarily to the company that owns it. Bu that doesn't mean I'm going to give the middle finger tothe company that owns it either! If they make something I want, sure I'll buy it. I don't see why you give a 3rd party company credit for making a toy you like, but not Hasbro/Takara (and we're in a thread about Takara being screwed over, if there's a difference to you).
I also find it odd that you SAY you support toy designers, but are VERY willing to buy KOs. I mean, KO companies don't pay those designers at all. Meanwhile it's known that the guy who made G1 Starscream in the Diaclone days worked on MP Starscream. So he's still employed at Takara (or at least was at the time of it's development). So how would buying a KO of Starscream support him? You're not buying from the company that either has employed him or is still employing him. You're just assuming designers have been tossed aside, but with the guy behind Starscream we KNOW that's not true.
In theory Takara and Hasbro knows which of it's designs are successful based on sales. So buying a recent KO helps them ... how? "Screw you Hasbro/Takara" doesn't help the creators find work. If anything it gives the message that the toys they helped to make don't sell and that the adult collector's market isn't profitable to sell to.
Really, underneath it all you just seem to wan to get the cheapest version available. And that's fine. I get that and it's a valid point of view. But the anti-corperate pro-creative angle is nonsensical. You get that creatives are hired by these corporate giants, right? And that if the giant falls, so do all the creatives you say you support. By saying "screw you Takara" you're also saying "screw you" to all the designers it's employed to make the figures you like.
The MP line may be a recent line, but the characters it uses ARE 30 years old. I get you’re point. The corporate machine is needed to keep the toys coming. But if Hasbro ever falls, that doesn’t necessarily mean the Transformers brand will fall. Someone might bring it back, officially or unofficially. As long as there’s money to be made someone’s going to cash in. As long as there are hardcore G1 fans, there will be 3rd parties. And as long as the prices of some figures remain extremely high, there will be KO’s. Some original G1 designers are still on Hasbro’s payroll. Others are not. Some are probably dead. Some are probably going through hard times. If you look at some of the original Sunbow voice actors, they’re not receiving any royalties for being a major part of G1. Granted they’re not toy designers or artists, but they are a good example of G1 founding fathers that aren’t receiving royalties for life every time their respective character gets a new toy. I’m fairly confident the same thing goes for many former G1 toy designers and concept artists. All that’s left is the corporate machine and a piece of paper that’s says “we paid you back in the 80’s for your work no matter how much it’s worth today, so deal with it”. That’s the point I’m trying to make as why “IP infringement” is such a joke. The corporation that is crying foul hung many of their innovators out to dry a long time ago. Hasbro IP infringement is pure karma 30 years in the making. I’m sure those who saw their personal innovations make billions and only got a $1000 check back in 1986 to show for it laugh at Hasbro’s IP infringement claims. I wouldn’t blame them.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Yotsuyasan wrote:daimchoc wrote:Should I continue posting such news/articles? It seems to be putting our group at odds with each other...
I was thinking to myself how sad it is that knock-offs get to be front page news, where as original third party products get shunned and ignored. Yes, they are front page news under the banner of, "Buyer Beware," and with a pretext of, "This thing exists, be aware of it when buying so you can be careful that you get the legitimate version." But in reality, to those who don't care about legitimacy it is just advertising that the knock off exists, so they can save a buck and go buy that one now -- to hell with the Has/Tak version!
It is a double edged sword. I agree people who want to avoid the knock offs need to be aware that they exist. But Seibertron.com reporting them as front page news almost seems to give them a legitimacy that this website specifically withholds from other, less questionable third party items. ("If you come up with an accessory to complement an official toy, or an original toy that homages a Transformers character, you don't exist to us! But if you blatantly knock off a Transformers toy, well then, this way to our front page!")
It really is a no win situation. Legitimate collectors need to be aware of knock-off products to avoid. But you can't draw attention to such products without (unintentionally) promoting them. Sadly, the only winners are the knock-off producers.
(I suppose it doesn't help that you posted a link to where the knock-off can be bought. There's a difference between saying, "Careful! This exists!" and saying, "And here's where you can buy it!")
Return to Unlicensed and KO Transformers Toys
Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSN [Bot], OptimusBrat, TF-fan kev777