Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

No problem! Misunderstandings happen in online forums all the time.

Re: Scalping: It happens a LOT in some areas. I am lucky...I don't have any problem with distribution in my area. (Well, that and I am not buying until a recent loan is paid off.) However, I have friends who have had to pay redonculous amounts of money for MP Rodimus and it sucks for them.

I get why people do it, and knightedfeline's post is one of the closest to my own opinion. We are not entitled to these products. It is not really "wrong" to buy them and resell, but it is taking advantage of someone....and, in particular, someone in a community to which we belong. I know...all profit, in some senses, is at the expense of someone....but hopefully people get my distinction.

When I see a collector of TFs after a prize product, my thought is "Damn, I know what it is like. Good luck." and not "Hmmm...if only I could get one of those I could make a healthy profit."

People please take it easy. Both of you have valid points. Let's please forget all this and continue to talk about this subject.

If you have grievances, the PM each other. Please do not air this in public.

first off multiple threads are a part of life online no use getting bent out of shape over it hence the multiple threads about mp hotrod unicron etc.

secondly if were going to blacklist every person whom we dont agree with then it makes for a really dull discussion.

lastly every now and then we will get scalping threads, along with"whats the next mp",the "what do you want to see in churgrts", and if anyone is tired of discussing it thats cool just dont post.it'll alleviate alot of frustration on everyones part. this is after all a hobby meant for our enjoyment so lets enjoyment and stop stressing out so much

knightedfeline wrote:People please take it easy. Both of you have valid points. Let's please forget all this and continue to talk about this subject.

If you have grievances, the PM each other. Please do not air this in public.

If you are talking about myself and donnie_707 it was actually all worked out two posts before yours, but maybe there was a timing issue.

Tempers will occasionally flare on forums due to misunderstandings. A one or two post back-and-forth is pretty standard...when it hijacks the thread it is another thing. I don't know if any unreasonable public-airing happened here.

Regardless...back to scalping! Or, rather, talking about scalping....

Well, are there any other elements to scalping that we've left out? Are there any scalpers that want to come forward, or friends of scalpers that want to put their perspectives in?

Is there anyone one out there that wants to unite against scalpers and start an anti-scalping campaign to encourage friend to not scalp like, "Friends don't let friends buy from scalpers?"

This may sound silly, but as a mathematician I can't help it: perhaps we should define terms and make sure we are all talking about the same "scalper".

I believe we can all agree that the person who hits the store, buys multiple of one toy with the sole intent of selling at a considerable mark-up is a scalper. We can also (maybe) agree that the person who sells a 10 year old boxed transformer at a high mark-up is not a scalper, but a collector liquidating some valuable commodity.

In between is my friend. (This sounds like a masked confession, but it isn't.) This guy buys Transformers from places like Target, then sells them on Amazon. Sounds like a scalper. However, he only buys one at a time, never the last one at a store, and sells with the intent of making between 1 and 4$ each time. He claims it feeds his addiction to buy Transformers while not bankrupting him. And he says he is "helping distribution". I don't know where he falls. I have a hard time saying Scalper, but he is also making a, albeit small, profit off this. However, at the same time, the small amount he makes barely covers the gas he spends. I think he makes around 20$ a month doing this. What do you guys and gals think?

F Prime wrote:I believe we can all agree that the person who hits the store, buys multiple of one toy with the sole intent of selling at a considerable mark-up is a scalper. We can also (maybe) agree that the person who sells a 10 year old boxed transformer at a high mark-up is not a scalper, but a collector liquidating some valuable commodity.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. People that buy small amounts like your friend I'd consider a hobbyist. Hobbyists are people that do something for enjoyment. Sounds like he enjoys it. That's part of what the market is able to manage and what it's there for. I've witnessed people buy out an entire stock and supply of one character or other toy, to sell on ebay.

I'm not a scalper but I can see where scalpers can actually help the fans out sometimes:

Here's a few examples:

(1) scalpers do all the hard work. like waste gallons of gas driving around buy multiples of a toy. last I check gasoline was over $4.00 per gallon. sometimes buying from these scalpers does save the buyer money he would have wasted on gas.

(2) Most of the time scalpers pay tax on the transformers toys & maybe credit card interest fees. most buyers when they buy from scalpers don't pay tax nor credit card interest fees.

(3)Scalpers do drive around wasting their time going in & out of stores. this could take hours or minutes. either way the buyer doesn't have to do this he can chose to rest & stay home. LAST I CHECKED THESE TPES OF SERVICES are considered personal assistants & these errand people get paid high amounts to do your shopping for you.

(4) The ability to stay at home,do no driving,waste no gas,save hours of your time running in & out of stores not pay sales tax. and clicking the ebay bid & confirm button is priceless.

donnie_707 wrote:

F Prime wrote:

donnie_707 wrote:

deathy wrote:No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. their just plastic toys. we don't need these things to survive like food,water,housing & air.

says the guy with close to 1000 posts on a toy forum........

This matters why? It is quite conceivable that one could have ten thousand posts and not own a single Transformer. I haven't bought one in years, but still come here to discuss the fiction and franchise.

And even if you own a thousand Transformers, it still doesn't make them food.

and this matters because MAYBE just MAYBE you are in a thread that is talking about toys.......is that conceivable to you? yeesh dude. chill out a bit. i sure enough dont like paying 2x, 3x, 4x the amount for something that should have been sitting on the counter at retail.....but OH since you dont collect transformers, YOU wouldnt understand......so quit trolling in this thread please.

Donnie,please let me explain something to you in a calm polite manner.

The hasbro TRU MP Rodimus Prime toy cost exactly $59.99 in stores. with sales tax included that final price would come to around $63.75.

I've been checking ebay for weeks/months since Hasbro MP Rodimus got sold at SDCC,TRU.COM & At TRU stores nationwide in america.

Currently the final bid asking price for a Hasbro MP Rodimus on Ebay ends below $71. the toy cost the buyer/scalper $63.75 at the store including tax. A BUYER RIGHT NOW IS GETTING A STEAL OF A DEAL & ONLY PAYING $7 dollars over retail price.

Paying under $71 isn't a bad deal. since the buyer doesn't have to pay sales tax. the buyer didn't waste any gasoline tha cost $4+ a gallon. the buyer didn't waste minutes/hours of his spare time doing toy hunts.

Granted I can sorta understand the amazon.com unicron scalping issue. because the toy cost buyers $59.99 & some scalpers were trying to get double or tripple price for the item.

Please,paying a $7 dollar mark up for hasbro MP Rodimus is not worth getting frustrated about.

FWIW,The ebay seller isn't making much profit off the $7 Profit from the buyer for Hasbro MP Rodimus prime. because ebay takes a few dollars in listing & final value fees. paypal takes a few dollars for their transaction fees. at best the scalper on this auction barely made $4 dollars profit. if the scalper charged you a bit more in shipping fees then he'd make a few meager $2+bucks more.

So while this may look like scalping from a far away view. this is actually a serice not scalping. as the buyer who charged you under $71 for hasbro MP Rodimus prime, after ebay & paypal fess only made a meager $3 dollar profit.

Deathy: I wouldn't consider someone that buys one or two to sell for a small mark-up a scalper. That is in a lot of ways more convenient. A scalper is someone that buys all available of an item or buys them and charges up to three times it's shelf value. It's worse when it's a limited production item. I know I've seen this many times on Ebay.

knightedfeline wrote:Deathy: I wouldn't consider someone that buys one or two to sell for a small mark-up a scalper. That is in a lot of ways more convenient. A scalper is someone that buys all available of an item or buys them and charges up to three times it's shelf value. It's worse when it's a limited production item. I know I've seen this many times on Ebay.

I agree & nor would I consider them scalpers.

A scalper is a person who gets carried away & always does this.

A person who does it once a year or once or twice in their life time isn't a scalper.

deathy wrote:A person who does it once a year or once or twice in their life time isn't a scalper.

Gotchya. They've just committed the act of scalping, but they in and of themselves are not scalpers.

Let's get this on Urban Dictionary. Scalper: adj. someone who scalps on a regular basis, not someone who only does it a little

Wait, what if they do it once or twice a year, every year?

knightedfeline wrote:Deathy: I wouldn't consider someone that buys one or two to sell for a small mark-up a scalper. That is in a lot of ways more convenient. A scalper is someone that buys all available of an item or buys them and charges up to three times it's shelf value. It's worse when it's a limited production item. I know I've seen this many times on Ebay.

knightedfeline wrote:

deathy wrote:A person who does it once a year or once or twice in their life time isn't a scalper.

Gotchya. They've just committed the act of scalping, but they in and of themselves are not scalpers.

Let's get this on Urban Dictionary. Scalper: adj. someone who scalps on a regular basis, not someone who only does it a little

Wait, what if they do it once or twice a year, every year?

I was just trying to give you a bit of support based off the reply you wrote before this one.

Yeah. I got that. I was just trying to make a joke cause I found the concept funny. I think I've been up too late.

But I was serious about the question, what if someone does it twice a year? Would they still be considered a scalper? What if they only did it at Christmas or Fall Release? Don't they fall under the same category.

knightedfeline wrote:But I was serious about the question, what if someone does it twice a year? Would they still be considered a scalper? What if they only did it at Christmas or Fall Release? Don't they fall under the same category.

My answer would be no,they wouldn't be considered a scalper.

Why wouldn't they fall under the same category? They repeat the action on a regular basis. They do it at peak times when retail prices enter their lowest time of the year. They jack up the price 2 to 3 times retail value and buy all available in their local stores. It seems the same to me.

knightedfeline wrote:Why wouldn't they fall under the same category? They repeat the action on a regular basis. They do it at peak times when retail prices enter their lowest time of the year. They jack up the price 2 to 3 times retail value and buy all available in their local stores. It seems the same to me.

I really don't care about this anymore,to bother discussing this any further.

scalping isn't illegial,so honestly I don't care what others do in their lives.

what about ppl that flip houses? i think scalpers are on the same popularity level as ppl that flip houses(Buys a house with cash just to sell it back to the market for a profit). there are ppl out there that actually want to buy a house to live in.....but ppl that flip houses for a profit makes it difficult for them to own one. its not illegal.....but ppl that flip houses, definitely are at the bottom of the popularity list.

there are scalpers in almost every hobby i can think of(im into A LOT of hobbies). same with video games....i remember when they released a limited special edition joystick. scalpers(non enthusiasts) bought 3-4 of these joysticks to sell on craigslist for DOUBLE the amount that you would have paid for at retail(400bucks 2nd market). the demand was there. but scalpers made it even higher. after a few months.....the prices on the controllers trickled back down to what it should have been in the first place had it not been for scalpers.

now back to transformers. i just skimmed through ebay. MOST of the online stores want 90 bucks for him buy-it-now. theres an individual on there(almost certainly a scalper) that has 9 rodimus for sale for 70.99. doesnt soundt like a bad deal as deathy says right? ill pay an extra 7 bucks to sit at home and wait for it to arrive in the mail......but its not just 71 bucks....he charges 15 bucks shipping. which makes the total 85 bucks...thats a little hard to swallow. but to each his own. as for me... im not buying from this scalper....

knightedfeline wrote:Why wouldn't they fall under the same category? They repeat the action on a regular basis. They do it at peak times when retail prices enter their lowest time of the year. They jack up the price 2 to 3 times retail value and buy all available in their local stores. It seems the same to me.

To me they would be a scalper. There are levels of scalping, but if you buy an item with the intent of making it harder to find so you can sell it for considerable profit you are a scalper.

I don't know what "considerable profit" is....this may seem low, but I think it you have made 50% of the cost in profit that is considerable. (So, getting 35$ profit from the sale of an item you purchased for 69.99$.)

donnie_707 wrote:what about ppl that flip houses? i think scalpers are on the same popularity level as ppl that flip houses(Buys a house with cash just to sell it back to the market for a profit). there are ppl out there that actually want to buy a house to live in.....but ppl that flip houses for a profit makes it difficult for them to own one. its not illegal.....but ppl that flip houses, definitely are at the bottom of the popularity list.

there are scalpers in almost every hobby i can think of(im into A LOT of hobbies). same with video games....i remember when they released a limited special edition joystick. scalpers(non enthusiasts) bought 3-4 of these joysticks to sell on craigslist for DOUBLE the amount that you would have paid for at retail(400bucks 2nd market). the demand was there. but scalpers made it even higher. after a few months.....the prices on the controllers trickled back down to what it should have been in the first place had it not been for scalpers.

now back to transformers. i just skimmed through ebay. MOST of the online stores want 90 bucks for him buy-it-now. theres an individual on there(almost certainly a scalper) that has 9 rodimus for sale for 70.99. doesnt soundt like a bad deal as deathy says right? ill pay an extra 7 bucks to sit at home and wait for it to arrive in the mail......but its not just 71 bucks....he charges 15 bucks shipping. which makes the total 85 bucks...thats a little hard to swallow. but to each his own. as for me... im not buying from this scalper....

deathy joke--->> this whole fan outrage over scalpers would make a awesome "Dan VS's" carton episode on the hub network. where dan gets upset about scalpers & tries to do something about it.

donnie,what others chose to do in their private lives is their own business. lets try to stop worrying about what others do,as it's none of our business. are we so perfect ourselves that we can do no wrong. "let he who is without sin,let him throw the first stone."

Donnie,regarding,your last paragraph in this reply. your not playing fair. your trying to win a point & posting links to the highest shipping fees & highest buy it nows on ebay for hasbro MP Rodimus Prime.

This is a big item,that weighs over 2 pounds. sellers have no control over what shipping carriers charge. usually a item that is big & weighs over 2 pounds can cost anywhere from $7.00 to $9.75. most shipping carriers like the USA Post office charge by distance,pound,box size. the closer you live to the seller,you pay less shipping fees. if you live in america & live 46 states away from the seller your gonna pay $9.75 in shipping fees for hasbro's MP Rodimus prime to get shipped to you from a private seller. business sometimes make deals with shipping carriers & get lower shipping fees.

Lets not assume everyone grabs a empty shipping box & uses this to ship out items they sell on ebay. lets try to play fair & give a few bucks for the shipping box cost,tape & bubble wrap of packing peanuts that sellers have to pay at stores. everyone wants their ebay item shipped out in a brand new box with tons of tape sealing all corners & bubble wrapped or with packing peanuts but hardly anyone wants to pay for all of this. they expect this is all free.

here's a few Ebay hasbro MP Rodimus prime links I found with decent or low shipping fees. & extremly low ebay auctions that have yet to end.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRU-SDCC-Transf ... 5d306718ad

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasbro-Exclusiv ... 2c5f51ca0e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transformers-G1 ... 415da37c87

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRU-SDCC-Transf ... 5d306a3d1e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasbro-Transfor ... 35b553b268

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRANSFORMERS-MA ... 4aaed9d385

i've done the research,I can almost gurantee you that some of these auctions I listed in this reply will end with final bids of under $65 to $67. since your not paying sales tax from ebay sellers,you'll be pratically getting the item for $59.99 plus $4.00 in shipping fees equals $64. since you wasted no gas driving to the store at $4 per gallon,thats easily another $5 to $10+ you'll be saving in gas depending on how far your driving distance is to your TRU store & depending on how many miles per gallon you get with your car.

if you want cheap shipping fees on ebay. then only deal with ebay sellers that live a few states away from you. those auction links I posted in this reply offer low shipping because i live closer to the seller. i live in the east coast of America.

in truth flipping a house is nothing like buying a toy for 20,30,40 or whatever bucks and then turning around and selling it for 100-200 dollars.i know ive flipped 2 houses.
differences are; you dont have to fill out a 3 foot stack of papers to get a tf. you you dont have to get dozens of permits that regulate your toy purchase and any modifications you make on it. you dont pay taxes or a monthly mortgage on it till it sells. and last but definitely not least your not investing another 35-45 thousand dollars repairing your shiny new toy to resell it.so no flipping a house is NOTHING like buying a toy.

the one similarity they do have is that it can take a long time to sell both and sometimes you just about break even.

alternator77 wrote:in truth flipping a house is nothing like buying a toy for 20,30,40 or whatever bucks and then turning around and selling it for 100-200 dollars
......

and last but definitely not least your not investing another 35-45 thousand dollars repairing your shiny new toy to resell it.so no flipping a house is NOTHING like buying a toy.

I was going to mention this. I have a friend who spent 10 years moving slowly from the west to the east coast. He would buy a house, repair/update the hell out of it while living in it for 6 months to a year, then sell it using the cash to buy his next house. I don't know if he really made any "profit" given the amount of work he did in mods.

At the same time..perhaps what he was doing was really "flipping" since his intent was never to actually make a profit?

deathy wrote: donnie,what others chose to do in their private lives is their own business. lets try to stop worrying about what others do,as it's none of our business. are we so perfect ourselves that we can do no wrong. "let he who is without sin,let him throw the first stone."

What someone does in their own house is, to an extent, their own business, but don't think people are viewing scalping as a victimless "crime". My guess is that those against scalping don't really care what someone does in their own house, but when it unnecessarily jacks up the prices then it affects them and they start to care.

I agree, however, with your prior posts. MANY so-called scalpers are, in fact, doing buyers a favor. I don't know if I would count them as scalpers. When I here scalper I think price gouger....selling a deluxe purchased for 11.99$ for 23.99$ before shipping. The kind of thing we saw with Unicron, for example.

I guess my biggest problem is with a d00d who goes to a local Target, finds 5 HA Leadfoots (sounds strange to right "foots"), and buys them all to sell. This makes it hard for local shoppers to find this product and they are forced to go online. It isn't illegal, but it is kinda sucky.

death wrote:This is a big item,that weighs over 2 pounds. sellers have no control over what shipping carriers charge.

This depends on the selling tool. Amazon (for the average seller) dictates shipping cost, but you can set whatever you want on Ebay. An MP Rodimus would (maybe?) fit in one of the large flat rate boxes. Those cost 14.95$. So 15$ is a perfectly reasonable cost. You may be able to ship it for less using standard priority mailing, but I don't know. Someone who charges 20$ to 25$ for shipping something like this is just trying to get you with a hidden cost.

Yeah, it's amazing how hidden costs and costs for shipping can be much higher than people expect.

But you do realize that we as the consumer can do something about scalping since we can agree that we dislike it? We can have a letter writing campaign to the companies and tell them, that we respectfully request that you limit the purchase of special edition, and exclusive toys to two toys per person, per day and request that they allow people to call in so they can place items on hold. This way we're not just bitching, but actually doing something about it.

This is a fair solution don't you think? Stores put those limits down anyway for special items, why not toys? This still gives more people the chance to get that "special" item and doesn't keep the scalpers from making a profit. They can still go and get the two items per store, but this way they can't get all of the items at the store.

Who agrees?

knightedfeline wrote:Yeah, it's amazing how hidden costs and costs for shipping can be much higher than people expect.

But you do realize that we as the consumer can do something about scalping since we can agree that we dislike it? We can have a letter writing campaign to the companies and tell them, that we respectfully request that you limit the purchase of special edition, and exclusive toys to two toys per person, per day and request that they allow people to call in so they can place items on hold. This way we're not just bitching, but actually doing something about it.

This is a fair solution don't you think? Stores put those limits down anyway for special items, why not toys? This still gives more people the chance to get that "special" item and doesn't keep the scalpers from making a profit. They can still go and get the two items per store, but this way they can't get all of the items at the store.

Who agrees?

I don't agree with this.

It's first come first serve.

If your not fast enough to go to the store & some else is faster then he deserves as many of the item as he feels like buying.