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I really can't add much to what has been posted already other than I've been posting all sorts of petitions from Demand Progress about this bill and its opposition on FaceBook, and will share this as well to inform people more, but the main thing here I find wrong is comparing SOPA and PIPA to China's firewall.
If SOPA passes, these bills will act similar in some form, but, quite unlike China's firewall, this law will not just block the website from US internet users, but COMPLETELY DELETE THE SITE FROM THE INTERNET AS A WHOLE.
I'm not trying to sensationalize anything, this is what will happen. Worst part is there is no trial that will be needed or any form of subpoena to the owner(s) of a website that may come into question, but hold them completely accountable, remove the website fully (yes, that means the non-US based members of this forum will not be able to access said site as well) from the internet, and prosecuting the owner(s) as criminals.
One other thing I should add is certain companies are for SOPA passing, such as Wal-Mart. Any money going towards these companies just gives them more to spend on pushing this bill through. Hollywood, I saw was mentioned earlier as being behind SOPA, but its actually the MPAA/RIAA that are fully behind this bill, going as far as having their employees calling their representatives as citizens not associated with them and saying they are for the bill passing.

reluttr wrote:I was curious why guys did not post about this sooner. Since if hasbro ever had a hissyfit due to product leaks they could royally destroy the TF community.

Seibertron already posted why this was only published here now:

Seibertron wrote:We've known about them as well. We've been discussing internally how to handle this on the site, most of the debate with how and when to handle it resting on my shoulders. I didn't feel posting this in the news section between Thanksgiving and Christmas was necessary and didn't want it to get lost in the news. It was also not necessary because the vote was pushed back from December to January. Had the vote happened in December, you would've seen me do something with this back then. Dead Metal had something written up way back in the middle of November for this, but I wasn't ready to bring Seibertron.com into this mess yet because I wanted to research it more and read about how the big sites/companies like Facebook, Google, and Wikipedia were going to handle this situation.

With things currently quiet on the Transformers front, now is a perfect time to do this leading up to the most important and influential period of the life of these bills. Now is crunch time -- there's a pending blackout date on the 18th, hearings on the same date in DC, and a vote on the 24th, I decided now was the time to add more fuel to the fire.

The next 7 to 10 days are extremely critical in making sure SOPA and PIPA do not get passed. Please spread the word on Facebook and Twitter and contact your local representatives to let them know how you feel about this.

skidflap wrote:fruit for thought but... this bill screws over everybody, including the government. what's the point of trying to blacklist websites. many websites rely on advertisement and advertisement requires what? images of the product. if adding an image of a product will get you blacklisted then companies big and small will lose because websites will no longer promote ads. believe me i've seen google, i've see yahoo, facebook, twitter, everything. if blogs and forums and fan websites (such as this) lose the right to freely discuss our favorite hobby then what kind of message is that? not sure this is the direction they want to take it. which is why i have faith that this bill will not pass. no one can be that stupid to support the very thing the US has spoken against in other countries.

...and i step off my box now.

Advertisements are exempt from the rules of the bill.

(In Optimus Prime voice) We must stop the Decepticon...gress

May I suggest talking to the site admins for the other Transformers fan sites and proposing a combined effort on this? I fully agree with what you're saying and doing, but it may be more effective if "Stop SOPA/PIPA" was featured on every major Transformers fan site. As it is, it seems like a Seibertron.com agenda. But if you "We Are The World" it, it will sink in as a fan-wide effort.

Shadowman wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:Our government has played a big part in destroying capitalism

I'm assuming you don't live in America, then? For all this straw-man talk about "corporations" no one has ever once said "corporations" hate people spending money on them. And spending money is the main point of capitalism.

No. I live in America, the heart of America to tell the truth. But that question was just sarcastic anyway.

Hugh. It's hard to talk about this on a board where honestly everyone panders to a large corporation. It's almost like you people worship Hasbro half the time.

Look. Our government has destroyed capitalism. How? They've over-regulated and over taxed business, thus making big businesses the only ones that can survive and thrive. These huge corporations have outsourced all their production to other countries to avoid regulations and because of this America has become a consumer only nation. Our economy simply cannot grow. But big business is happy because there is no competition. They do not care that their system is destined to fail. Every time a new overbearing law is passed, it causes the small man to fall and the big man keeps climbing the ladder.

Joetx wrote:This is easily the most ignorant post I've read on a TFs fan site, placing the blame on the wrong people. Lawyers? Hollywood? What, did you just get out of a tea party meeting?

Basically, our political system is corrupt b/c we've allowed, through our collective ignorance, the wealthy & "people" such as corporations (especially the financial, petroleum, & health care-related industries) to, in effect, bribe the politicians of both parties into drafting & passing laws that benefit the wealthy & corporations, but are a detriment to the vast majority of us.

And Ron Paul would give them even greater freedom to do whatever the hell they wanted.

Essentially, yes you are correct. But that does not dis-include Hollywood or the lawyers who benefit. It's also large in part the fault of the politicians who took said bribes to begin with. Also have you even looked at who supports this bill? And if you think regulatory laws do jack **** to big business then obviously you aren't listening to your own words.

Capitalism is corrupt and broken without competition and the regulations do little more than bring competition down. Though granted, one thing I still think needs to be done is to place a tax hike on all imported goods and I doubt Dr. Paul will do that. But I mostly side with him on civil rights issues, that's more important to me now.

If you want government to stop pandering to big business, if you want them to stop creating laws which take away your freedoms. Then downsize government and let people do what they want! Freedom of choice dammit!

Vicalliose wrote:If you want government to stop pandering to big business, if you want them to stop creating laws which take away your freedoms. Then downsize government and let people do what they want! Freedom of choice dammit!

Good luck with that, bro. As much as I want the same thing, that is so unlikely to happen anytime soon. As long as people are ignorant of the processes involved in the consumer products and everyday privileges we, the west, recieve, they aren't going to make any stand to choose their spending in a way that will affectively shift operations on a governmental/corporate level.

*EDIT: Even knowing the process, they still won't change..... sooooo ya.

Im really at a loss for words here.. I never eally paid any attention to this whole situation because I figured it would get shot down but I admit my stupidity on this..

What is the real gain from this bill passing? I mean, no one wins in this situation.. It almost brings a tear to my eye that people out there would do something like this...

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:If you want government to stop pandering to big business, if you want them to stop creating laws which take away your freedoms. Then downsize government and let people do what they want! Freedom of choice dammit!

Good luck with that, bro. As much as I want the same thing, that is so unlikely to happen anytime soon. As long as people are ignorant of the processes involved in the consumer products and everyday privileges we, the west, recieve, they aren't going to make any stand to choose their spending in a way that will affectively shift operations on a governmental/corporate level.

*EDIT: Even knowing the process, they still won't change..... sooooo ya.

"People would rather let the ship sink then stop sailing." Or some kind of metaphor like that applies here. Naturally the massive changes that would need to take place to fix what's been done would impede in peoples way of life and the modern day "order of things", so they'd rather just keep sinking rather than take in the reality.

I hate the world...

Who are the sponsors of this bill? Democrat or Republican? More or less likely a Democrat! Ronald Reagan's policy allowed our hobby, Transformers collecting possible through his liberalization of stupid government policies that forbade cartoons that "advertised" products(in this case, the old TF show) aimed towards kids.

Now we have this monstrosity? Once the **** hits the fan......! Like Pandora's box, the far reaching implications are to terrible to contemplate!

Btw,if Hollywood is the prime movers behind this? Then......who runs Hollywood btw aside from the corporate/trial lawyer clique( whose primary ethnicity is...........)?

Those types really have their tentacles all over the popular cultures that it makes you wonder why they are so detested world wide!

fenrir72 wrote:Who are the sponsors of this bill? Democrat or Republican? More or less likely a Democrat! Ronald Reagan's policy allowed our hobby, Transformers collecting possible through his liberalization of stupid government policies that forbade cartoons that "advertised" products(in this case, the old TF show) aimed towards kids.

Now we have this monstrosity? Once the **** hits the fan......! Like Pandora's box, the far reaching implications are to terrible to contemplate!

Btw,if Hollywood is the prime movers behind this? Then......who runs Hollywood btw aside from the corporate/trial lawyer clique( whose primary ethnicity is...........)?

Those types really have their tentacles all over the popular cultures that it makes you wonder why they are so detested world wide!

Well it was started by a democrat. But **** me if I actually could remember the name of who it was. Though it's mostly being backed by republicans in the house and senate, mainly because they have no idea what it is, but what few democrats are in are voting against it so they feel the need to vote for it. It could be puppeteering though, Dems are good at making republicans look stupid... -er.

LiKwid wrote:Im really at a loss for words here.. I never eally paid any attention to this whole situation because I figured it would get shot down but I admit my stupidity on this..

What is the real gain from this bill passing? I mean, no one wins in this situation.. It almost brings a tear to my eye that people out there would do something like this...

Well, big business wins since wealth automatically exempts people from everything. And it sorts out the government's fears of how much power the internet has given people.

Vicalliose wrote:corporations

Stop saying that all the time. People keep blaming corporations for things, it's the most cliched argument you can make. And it's not even true, it's just a big generalization.

Vicalliose wrote:Look. Our government has destroyed capitalism. How? They've over-regulated and over taxed business, thus making big businesses the only ones that can survive and thrive. These huge corporations have outsourced all their production to other countries to avoid regulations and because of this America has become a consumer only nation. Our economy simply cannot grow. But big business is happy because there is no competition. They do not care that their system is destined to fail. Every time a new overbearing law is passed, it causes the small man to fall and the big man keeps climbing the ladder.

Except EVERYONE has a competitor. Do you not watch TV? Do you not see how half of all ads are "Our competitors product sucks but our product rocks"?

Here's an example: You know why people shop at Wal-Mart? Because it has everything. (Though I prefer Meijers, it's about the same, though not as widespread, a lot of people here probably don't know about it) So people go there for all the stuff they want in one place, at cheaper prices, instead of Mom-and-Pop local stores. It's not because Wal-Mart is an evil corporate entity, it's not because the government overtaxed the Mom-and-Pop stores. It's because Wal-Mart just did their job better.

fenrir72 wrote:Who are the sponsors of this bill? Democrat or Republican?

Both. Lamar Smith (R-TX) started SOPA, with co-sponsers Howard Berman (D-CA), Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), Mary Bono Mack (R-CA), Steve Chabot (R-OH), John Conyers (D-MI), Ted Deutch (D-FL), Elton Gallegly (R-CA), Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), Timothy Griffin (R-AR), Dennis A. Ross (R-FL), Adam Schiff (D-CA) and Lee Terry (R-NE).

Vicalliose wrote:Well, big business wins since wealth automatically exempts people from everything.

Except for Kenneth Lay, though he technically got away with it by dying from a heart attack instead of serving the 45 year prison sentence for everything he did with Enron.

EDIT: Also Rod Blagojevich, former Governor of Illinois, convicted of a felony. And former Senator Ted "series of tubes" Stevens, who was at least indicted, though it was voided due to gross prosecutorial misconduct. (He died in a plane crash a year later, though)

Just because rich and powerful people don't always get punished doesn't mean they always get away with it.

Shadowman wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:corporations

Stop saying that all the time. People keep blaming corporations for things, it's the most cliched argument you can make. And it's not even true, it's just a big generalization.

Its obviously not all corporations, but the ones at the very high end who make the money that basically sustains the nations economy are corporations that do in fact have dealings with the government to ensure that both can exist without the threat of defecit due to unstable global economy. I can't claim to know too much, but I do know that there is enough blame to go around on the corporate level for things like oil, pharmaceuticals, etc.

If corporations had no dealings with government... then why are there so many lobbyists?

I've just discovered that the bill has been updated now. Rep. Lamar Smith, chairman of the house judiciary committee, has announced that he is removing the DNS blocking provision from SOPA.

It's a step in the right direction at least.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:corporations

Stop saying that all the time. People keep blaming corporations for things, it's the most cliched argument you can make. And it's not even true, it's just a big generalization.

Its obviously not all corporations, but the ones at the very high end who make the money that basically sustains the nations economy are corporations that do in fact have dealings with the government to ensure that both can exist without the threat of defecit due to unstable global economy. I can't claim to know too much, but I do know that there is enough blame to go around on the corporate level for things like oil, pharmaceuticals, etc.

If corporations had no dealings with government... then why are there so many lobbyists?

Lobbyists are people who try to directly influence the government to do things for their organizations, not all of them are corporate. (Not all of them succeed, either)

Hey, Seibertron. This article needs to be sticky and/or a banner with link. I fully support following the blackout, hopefully with a splash page explaining what's going on and how to help. I don't know how I'll make it through the 18th without my Transformers news. Maybe I can fine a nice warm cave somewhere until this all blows over. Then if/when these bills get passed I'll have a head start on my future subterranean abode. I've been following the site for about as long as it's existed and know it's the little guys who are going to get the worst of this. You said it, it's scary. We can't keep taking one step forward and two steps back or we're never going to get any progress done anywhere. KEEP THE INTERNET ALIVE! SUPPORT SEIBERTRON.COM!

Kill bill.

Shadowman wrote:Except EVERYONE has a competitor. Do you not watch TV? Do you not see how half of all ads are "Our competitors product sucks but our product rocks"?

You mean insurance companies? They don't produce anything, thus they do not count in this argument.

Shadowman wrote:Here's an example: You know why people shop at Wal-Mart? Because it has everything. (Though I prefer Meijers, it's about the same, though not as widespread, a lot of people here probably don't know about it) So people go there for all the stuff they want in one place, at cheaper prices, instead of Mom-and-Pop local stores. It's not because Wal-Mart is an evil corporate entity, it's not because the government overtaxed the Mom-and-Pop stores. It's because Wal-Mart just did their job better.

Wal-Mart has more money and the small "mom-and-pop" shop is simply unable to compete and unable to grow. Why Do they have lower prices? Because they can dodge or eat regulations and taxes that smaller companies simply cannot. They got that way because they cut corners and lobby to the government. Also because they have stock holders, the only people they care about, which is another huge problem with business these days. Big business also doesn't seem to care that the more they outsource the more they hurt the American economy.

And technically Wal-Mart is just a retail outlet. So I don't think they count either.

This bill is so unAmerican that even if it did pass Congress and Senate, there is almost no way the President would approve it as he has been a big proponent of NOT censoring the Internet. If he caved like he has about just about everything involving the Congress and Senate so far, it still needs to be reviewed by the Supreme Court who would almost assuredly rule it to violate the Constitution in very obvious ways. This country is heading toward a point of social revolution, and reducing the Internet to millions of websites with no other content except how much the government and the corporations it supports sucks creates a very effective breeding ground for organized revolt.

The Internet was fun while it lasted, but if it is to come to an end, we've survived without it before; we'll survive without it again. With more companies depending on the Internet to provide a growing percentage of their revenue, I think they will feel the effects of the end of the Internet much more than we will. The poor primarily rely on the Internet for information and entertainment, and both we've been able to generate on our own for decades before the Internet. The rich rely on the Internet for sales dollars, and they aren't going to like something that has killed their bottom line.

Personally, I think one of two things should happen. I think the Internet should go dark from now until the 24th, including the major news agencies. We would find other things to do with our time, but Congressmen who rely on the Internet for news and businesses who rely on the Internet for revenue? They would really feel the end result of these bills. Failing that, I really think this should be an issue left to the American people to vote on in November.

If this gets passed, I think we should automatically vote against any politician who supported the bills and vote in any politician whose goal it is to repeal them as soon as they take office. Show Congress that they won the battle for their lobbyists at the expense of their jobs, and show corporations that all the billions of dollars they throw at Congress still doesn't overpower the voice of a unified nation.

Vicalliose and Shadowman, please take the argument elsewhere. Pointless debate only serves to confuse the issue. This thread is to discuss the bill itself, it's effects and how we can help raise awareness of it. You are both clearly knowledgeable about the subject, how about you put your efforts into ways we can help spread the word and/or help to stop it?

Blozor wrote: this should be an issue left to the American people to vote on in November.

That would be true, but it's not just America impacted by this, and whilst congress is beginning to stutter on rushing this through, there is no guarantee it won't be passed by then.

Blozor wrote:This bill is so unAmerican that even if it did pass Congress and Senate, there is almost no way the President would approve it as he has been a big proponent of NOT censoring the Internet. If he caved like he has about just about everything involving the Congress and Senate so far, it still needs to be reviewed by the Supreme Court who would almost assuredly rule it to violate the Constitution in very obvious ways. This country is heading toward a point of social revolution, and reducing the Internet to millions of websites with no other content except how much the government and the corporations it supports sucks creates a very effective breeding ground for organized revolt.

The Supreme Court ruled that Corporations are people and opened the floodgates for them and rich people to fund whatever politician they want to with an UNLIMITED amounts of money.

The Internet was fun while it lasted, but if it is to come to an end, we've survived without it before; we'll survive without it again. With more companies depending on the Internet to provide a growing percentage of their revenue, I think they will feel the effects of the end of the Internet much more than we will. The poor primarily rely on the Internet for information and entertainment, and both we've been able to generate on our own for decades before the Internet. The rich rely on the Internet for sales dollars, and they aren't going to like something that has killed their bottom line.

Personally, I think one of two things should happen. I think the Internet should go dark from now until the 24th, including the major news agencies. We would find other things to do with our time, but Congressmen who rely on the Internet for news and businesses who rely on the Internet for revenue? They would really feel the end result of these bills. Failing that, I really think this should be an issue left to the American people to vote on in November.

If this gets passed, I think we should automatically vote against any politician who supported the bills and vote in any politician whose goal it is to repeal them as soon as they take office. Show Congress that they won the battle for their lobbyists at the expense of their jobs, and show corporations that all the billions of dollars they throw at Congress still doesn't overpower the voice of a unified nation.

The sad truth is that America is a very divided country in just about every way (race, religion, political beliefs, social beliefs, economic beliefs) and it's next impossible for anybody to agree on the color of the sky much less to vote people out and in to fix this mess.

And while the corporations have some blame but if you want to know the real culprits behind this look in a mirror. That is right it's the American's people fault for not paying attention to what their governments (local,state, and federal) doing and then complaining about it. Instead we pay more attention to stuff like The Transformers (which is fun) than we do what our politics and the policy. Sure it's easy to be apathetic and just say it's "impossible, or let someone else do it" well guess what? That is how crap like this bill gets made into law or the Supreme Court's ruling on Citizen's United never gets overturned by a Constitutional Amendment (which right now is the only viable way to get rid of it) otherwise it will destroy our country more than any terrorist threat.

Now I'm guilty of this as much as anyone, I didn't pay attention until 2007 when I realized that if I'm going to vote then damn it I should know who I'm voting for and learn the about the issues I care about. It wasn't easy and at times I wish I was ignorant of the problems facing not only my country but the world, but I know if I stop caring then what I say or believe in will die.

Get involved learn the facts. And stay involved.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#/ ... e-internet

The office of the President has spoken on the issue and the good news is that they aren't too impressed by the bills ambiguity either.
Do note that they don't make any mention about the filtering of search engines or the enforced removal of sites from them, so there is still work to do, but this is a massive step in the right direction.

I apologize for my behavior. Though the subject lies in politics. I'd imagine this to be expected.

I believe strongly that we are approaching a turning point in American history though. We face several major paths, only one of them will lead us out of the madness we have taken in so nonchalantly. And it may not be a path anyone will be comfortable with.

godzillabot wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

godzillabot wrote:

contact your local representatives to let them know how you feel about this.

Not trying to sound dumb, but who qualifies for that?

Any American citizen has the right to contact their local representative(s) to let your voice be heard. There are a variety of ways to contact them via phone or email. The original story provides some of the links that will help empower you to do just that. Please let us know if you need further help. We need every one to step up to the plate on this one. This is serious. This is scary. WE collectively can make a difference.

I'll do what I can in my sucluded place

Man, first time I've been considered a member of a team. Thanks.

Godzillabot ... you are definitely a member of the Seibertron.com team. Thank you for being part of this website and for making it your online Transformers home. We appreciate you being a part of our community and contributing in whatever manner you can. Thanks!

Psychout wrote:Vicalliose and Shadowman, please take the argument elsewhere. Pointless debate only serves to confuse the issue. This thread is to discuss the bill itself, it's effects and how we can help raise awareness of it. You are both clearly knowledgeable about the subject, how about you put your efforts into ways we can help spread the word and/or help to stop it?

This is how the first discussion topic ended up getting closed, listen to psychout plox.

Anyway, I've been sending emails/letters and trying to educate close friends/relatives about the bill as well, I just don't think that, even if this passes both the house/senate, (supporting the bill is starting to be described as toxic) that there's no way Obama signs this into law. Also, send letters to facebook/twitter and the like to try and encourage them to blackout for a day, because the amount of people that would suddenly know (and turn) on these bills would grow by leaps and bounds in no time at all.