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Manterax Prime wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:That is friggin' awesome. Hasbro and Takara are really knocking these Beast Wars figures out of the park. I would pay nearly any amount if they were to do all of the original fourteen Beast Wars characters.

Please, Hasbro. Please.

I believe you meant to say "Hasbro is" but ended up putting "and Takara are". Takara has yet to put out an accurate Beast Wars paint job in the Generations line.

Takara Rhinox is more show-accurate color-wise than Hasbro Rhinox.

Sabrblade wrote:Takara Rhinox is more show-accurate color-wise than Hasbro Rhinox.

Rhinox was never metallic bronze in the show. So, no. It isn't. Try again sir.

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Takara Rhinox is more show-accurate color-wise than Hasbro Rhinox.

Rhinox was never metallic bronze in the show. So, no. It isn't. Try again sir.

"Metallic" (as in "shiny") is not a color.

Sabrblade wrote:

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Takara Rhinox is more show-accurate color-wise than Hasbro Rhinox.

Rhinox was never metallic bronze in the show. So, no. It isn't. Try again sir.

"Metallic" (as in "shiny") is not a color.

If Takara Rhinox were brown, I would completely agree on it being more accurate, but it's not brown, it's bronze. It's more accurate to the colors of the Armada release of Transmetal Rhinox.

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Takara Rhinox is more show-accurate color-wise than Hasbro Rhinox.

Rhinox was never metallic bronze in the show. So, no. It isn't. Try again sir.

"Metallic" (as in "shiny") is not a color.

If Takara Rhinox were brown, I would completely agree on it being more accurate, but it's not brown, it's bronze. It's more accurate to the colors of the Armada release of Transmetal Rhinox.

To be fair, we've only seen stock photography rather than in hand pics of the final product.

But we can at least look forward to to painted in gatling guns.

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:That is friggin' awesome. Hasbro and Takara are really knocking these Beast Wars figures out of the park. I would pay nearly any amount if they were to do all of the original fourteen Beast Wars characters.

Please, Hasbro. Please.

I believe you meant to say "Hasbro is" but ended up putting "and Takara are". Takara has yet to put out an accurate Beast Wars paint job in the Generations line.

like others have said.. takara's rhinox looks more accurately colored than hasbro's does.. but again, we'll have to wait for unofficial photos to find that out for sure.

and.. if you're saying "generations" meaning the entire classics/universe/generations/etc lines.. then i'd HAVE to point to takara's dinobot and say that you are absolutely 100% dead wrong... otherwise, there haven't been any new mold beast wars figures to come out since dinobot and cheetor. so, until both hasbro's and takara's figures can be shown side by side we don't know which are more accurate.

but.. right now, judging from photo's of hasbro's and takara's rhinox and seeing comparisons to stills from the show, i'd say that takara's is closer. especially when you throw the guns into the mix.

Rated X wrote:Glad to see this, he looks great ! Ratrap is my favorite Beast Wars character because out of the original Season one cast, he is the only character that isn't a reboot of a G1 character. He has a unique personality of his own.

Optimus Primal - Optimus Prime (Duh)

Rhinkx - Ratchet (boring medic)

Cheetor - Hot Rod (young upstart)

Dinobot - Starscream (Imfamous traitor - seeks leadership)

Megatron - Megatron (duh)

Scorponok - Soundwave (Loyal to megratron)

Terrasaur - Another version of Starscream

Taruntalas - Shockwave (scientist with his own lair)

Waspinator - ??? (Ok his personality is unique as well)

wouldn't rattrap be considered a bumblebee type character? .. i mean, i think he's as much of a bumblebee as dinobot is a starscream..

to me, starscream and dinobot have VERY little in common.

i never looked at rhinox as being a ratchet.. but rather an amalgamate of ratchet and ironhide.. i mean.. you'd never see ratchet with gattling guns like that.

i mean, besides primal, megatron and cheetor.. most of the characters personalities are rather different. you can point out small aspects of each of them that could be similar to other characters, but i think you could point out things about everyone that are the same as someone else.

(this is if we're talking about the G1 cartoon.

TimothyR wrote:
i mean, besides primal, megatron and cheetor.. most of the characters personalities are rather different. you can point out small aspects of each of them that could be similar to other characters, but i think you could point out things about everyone that are the same as someone else.

+1/seconded/liked/all that. Using common archetypes /= direct reuse of a character in a different shell. Especially in the case of Beast Wars, and heck, even Primal and Megatron have some readily identifiable differences (personality wise) from the G1 Prime and Megatron. I'd even say that Cheetor isn't even very Hot Rod like, so much as just the typical "brash young warrior" stereotype found in a metric ton of fantasy media.

ScottyP wrote:

TimothyR wrote:
i mean, besides primal, megatron and cheetor.. most of the characters personalities are rather different. you can point out small aspects of each of them that could be similar to other characters, but i think you could point out things about everyone that are the same as someone else.

+1/seconded/liked/all that. Using common archetypes /= direct reuse of a character in a different shell. Especially in the case of Beast Wars, and heck, even Primal and Megatron have some readily identifiable differences (personality wise) from the G1 Prime and Megatron. I'd even say that Cheetor isn't even very Hot Rod like, so much as just the typical "brash young warrior" stereotype found in a metric ton of fantasy media.

What's more is that, when originally creating the Beast Wars cartoon characters, Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio went into the show with almost no prior knowledge of anything to have come in Transformers fiction before 1996. They basically approached the show with a completely clean slate, taking no inspiration from any G1 fiction until much much later in the show.

In the two-part season 1 pilot episodes alone, the only references to past TF fiction they made was a mention of Planet Cybertron (which isn't really anything special) and something called "the Great War". The latter of which was not conceived as referring to the Autobot/Decepticon civil wars of the 1980s fiction, but instead as merely some vague, unspecific conflict that had ended at some earlier point. The idea of it referring to the Autobot/Decepticon wars was something the fans thought up, and because Bob and Larry interacted with the fandom at the time, they saw that fanmade idea and eventually just ran with it.

I know the toys usually come out in stores AFTER they've appeared in the cartoons, but aren't the toys designed BEFORE they appear in the cartoons? If the toy is blue, but appears purple in the cartoon, is it necessarily the toy that's the wrong color, or is it possible that the animation studio got the color wrong?

GuyIncognito wrote:I know the toys usually come out in stores AFTER they've appeared in the cartoons, but aren't the toys designed BEFORE they appear in the cartoons? If the toy is blue, but appears purple in the cartoon, is it necessarily the toy that's the wrong color, or is it possible that the animation studio got the color wrong?

That's how it used to be, yes. But ever since 2007, the process seems to have reversed or at least taken a different approach with the toy and show designs being designed relatively more closer to each other or the toys being based off the show model.

Sabrblade wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:I know the toys usually come out in stores AFTER they've appeared in the cartoons, but aren't the toys designed BEFORE they appear in the cartoons? If the toy is blue, but appears purple in the cartoon, is it necessarily the toy that's the wrong color, or is it possible that the animation studio got the color wrong?

That's how it used to be, yes. But ever since 2007, the process seems to have reversed or at least taken a different approach with the toy and show designs being designed relatively more closer to each other or the toys being based off the show model.

Even then, mistakes do happen. A prime example is Armada Tidal Wave, his colors were overhauled from the original purple to green, but the changes were never communicated to the animation studios so they kept the original purple in the show. Takara used their delayed release schedule to revert the planned green toy colors to the originally planned purple.
Don't know if Superlink Megazarak vs. Energon Scorponok is the same case of communication breakdown between Hasbro/Takara and the studios (especially given the colors used on the packaging art).

I guess my point is this: if the toy and the cartoon version look different, why is it always the TOY that's considered "wrong"? The cartoons are essentially advertisements for the toys, so if the depiction of the product in the ad differs from the actual product, isn't it the ad that's "wrong"?

GuyIncognito wrote:I guess my point is this: if the toy and the cartoon version look different, why is it always the TOY that's considered "wrong"? The cartoons are essentially advertisements for the toys, so if the depiction of the product in the ad differs from the actual product, isn't it the ad that's "wrong"?

O, you know fans, always wanting the more beautiful of the two depictions.

Because people first see the character in the show, then go and buy the toy of it. Most people don't view the cartoons as mere advertisements for toys, rather they view the toys as mere cash-in for the show. After all, that's how it is for virtually every other show/movie/video games.

Noideaforaname wrote:Because people first see the character in the show, then go and buy the toy of it. Most people don't view the cartoons as mere advertisements for toys, rather they view the toys as mere cash-in for the show. After all, that's how it is for virtually every other show/movie/video games.

Some people may view the toys as mere cash-in for the show, but I think they'd be wrong. I don't have numbers, but I'd be willing to be Hasbro makes FAR more money of the toys than they do off the cartoon.

As for "virtually every other show/movie/video game", that's not really true. A LOT of kids' movies are made solely to promote a toy line. That's been the case since the 80's when the FCC lifted restrictions on using cartoons to advertise toys on TV. Since then, virtually every kid cartoon from G.I.Joe to Ben 10 to My Little Pony has been created as a way to sell a line of toys. What do you think Nickelodeon makes more money off of: Spongebob cartoons, or lincensing for Spongebob merchandise? Remember Joel Schumacher's awful Batman & Robin movie? It was awful because the studio forced him to make a movie that they could use to sell a line of action figures. This happens ALL THE TIME.

Why do you think Hasbro made a movie version of Battleship? Because they thought the movie would be super-profitable? Hell no. They made the movie to get people to buy the game again. Same thing with the Monopoly movie and every other upcoming movies based on a board game.

TimothyR wrote:
i never looked at rhinox as being a ratchet.. but rather an amalgamate of ratchet and ironhide.. i mean.. you'd never see ratchet with gattling guns like that.

G1 UK Comic Ratchet would have loved some chain guns of doom. He stepped up and took out Megatron when Optimus Prime and Grimlock were too damn chicken to even try!

Sure, a toyline is probably a greater source of money than the show it's tied to, and sure, lots of shows owe their existence to toys... but that doesn't change the fact that most people connect to a fictional character via the show (and buy the toy because of that connection), so show accuracy trumps toy accuracy for that reason.

Noideaforaname wrote:Sure, a toyline is probably a greater source of money than the show it's tied to, and sure, lots of shows owe their existence to toys... but that doesn't change the fact that most people connect to a fictional character via the show (and buy the toy because of that connection), so show accuracy trumps toy accuracy for that reason.

Pretty much this ^

I loved Beast Wars because of the characters (not necessarily the character models) and the story/writing. I did also enjoy the toys very much (my favorite Transformers line to date) even though often times the toys weren't as nice as the show models or at least weren't very accurate to how the characters appeared on the show so getting these new figures which do more closely match with the show models is excellent. It's the same reason I love the new MP's so much.

Noideaforaname wrote:Sure, a toyline is probably a greater source of money than the show it's tied to, and sure, lots of shows owe their existence to toys... but that doesn't change the fact that most people connect to a fictional character via the show (and buy the toy because of that connection), so show accuracy trumps toy accuracy for that reason.

This.

There's also the case of Transformers: Prime, where they made the cartoon and couldn't give less than a rat's ass whether or not there was a toyline, which was proven when the first time they had ever released a mass-retail toyline for the show was when the series was beginning its second season about a year and a half after the series had premiered.

As such, the toys were just there to promote the show instead of the other way around, and therefore the toys strive for show-accuracy.

So, when Beast Hunters came to crap on the Prime toyline, there was a logical uproar for the lack of show-accuracy in toys like Skylynx, Darksteel, and Optimus Prime (or the lack of mainline toys period in the case of Smokescreen and Megatron).

GuyIncognito wrote:I guess my point is this: if the toy and the cartoon version look different, why is it always the TOY that's considered "wrong"? The cartoons are essentially advertisements for the toys, so if the depiction of the product in the ad differs from the actual product, isn't it the ad that's "wrong"?

It doesn't help the perception that the guys making the shows were often clearly not on the same page as Hasbro. During Beast Wars one made Prime and Megs a bat and an alligator while the other made them a gorilla and a t-rex (didn't get toys of the show's version until months after it had been running, maybe even a year), the original toys had those silly alternate heads the show never touched, the scales on the toys were way off (toy Optimus is supposed to be King Kong sized, while Rhinox is a shrimp), transmetal toys were made for characters that were killed off or not altered in the show...I liked that line, but it was pretty obvious the two groups were acting independently of each other, even when I was a kid.

Spider5800 wrote:It doesn't help the perception that the guys making the show were clearly not on the same page as Hasbro. One made Prime and Megs a bat and an alligator while the other made them a gorilla and a t-rex (didn't get toys of the show's version until months after it had been running, maybe even a year),

Erm, no, the gorilla and T-Rex toys were made before the show came out. Those toys were the very things that the cartoon models were based on. There were even plans to make Optimus Primal a bat/gorilla/robot triple changer in the cartoon, but those plans never came about.

Spider5800 wrote:the original toys had those silly alternate heads the show never touched,

They did for Waspinator and Taratulas, at least, igonoring the "robot" heads for those two and instead using their "mutant" heads for their cartoon models.

Spider5800 wrote:the scales on the toys were way off (toy Optimus is supposed to be King Kong sized, while Rhinox is a shrimp),

Scale is pretty much a joke in Transformers anyway.

Spider5800 wrote:transmetal toys were made for characters that were killed off or not altered in the show...I liked that line, but it was pretty obvious the two groups were acting independently of each other, even when I was a kid.

Even though the only reason the Transmetals appeared in the show was because Hasbro requested that the show promote the Transmetal toys.

Sabrblade wrote:Erm, no, the gorilla and T-Rex toys were made before the show came out. Those toys were the very things that the cartoon models were based on. There were even plans to make Optimus Primal a bat/gorilla/robot triple changer in the cartoon, but those plans never came about.

Never heard this before, I was just going off the fact that the intial wave of Beast Wars toys that came out before the show released had bat Primal and alligator Megatron, whereas the toys for gorilla Primal and t-rex Megatron came out in a later wave after the show had been on for a little while (at least in my area).

Sabrblade wrote:They did for Waspinator and Taratulas, at least, igonoring the "robot" heads for those two and instead using their "mutant" heads for their cartoon models.

I just meant they only had one head on the show. The whole robot/mutant head gimmick didn't exist in the show, and I'm still not entirely sure what it's purpose was in the toyline.

Sabrblade wrote:Scale is pretty much a joke in Transformers anyway.

True, but in this case interviews with Hasbro execs show that the original gorilla vs t-rex mode was inspired by a fight between King Kong and a t-rex in the original Kong movie, and the tech specs on the toy's box imply that Primal was a giant building-scaling ape like Kong. Hasbro's stuff all treated him like a giant (which explains the giant toy), whereas the show made him like a normal sized gorilla.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Primal#Notes

Sabrblade wrote:Even though the only reason the Transmetals appeared in the show was because Hasbro requested that the show promote the Transmetal toys.

http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0063/

"Likewise we'd planned to introduce the Transmetals slowly, bringing them in over the course of the show. Hasbro wanted no part of that. No matter what we else we did, the mandate was to bring Optimus back and have everybody go Transmetal"

Hasbro certainly pushed for the Transmetals to be on the show, I was pointing out that Hasbro wanted EVERYONE to be a transmetal and created toys for things like Transmetal Rhinox and Terrorsaur, even though these characters never actually got a Transmetal body (heck, Terrorsaur was dead). There was a clear disconnect between what the show did and what the toyline was trying to do.

This coupled with Rhinox and Waspinator are really getting me interested in Transformers again. Such a nice thing to see Beast Wars getting some love again.

TheMuffin wrote:This coupled with Rhinox and Waspinator are really getting me interested in Transformers again. Such a nice thing to see Beast Wars getting some love again.

DUDE!!! I haven't seen you in ages!

I'm a relic from a long forgotten age. However new Beast Wars figures still make me giggle like a school girl. Might try sticking around this time.