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[Uniprimus]

Ok, I am getting sick of this.

I simply cannot undertand the Unicron and Primus thing. Says only 1 Unicorn exists in the entire multiverse, but Primus exists in each, like all other Transfrmers/things in that aternate universe/reality. Then I have people saying Unicorn exists in all of them. I AM SO GODDAMNED CONFUSED. Can someone PLEASE explain this to me in simple words?

[Venomous Prime]

Its not really that bad of a problem.

Each continuity is separate.

Don't try to connect them.

End of story

[Kanyon]

Well Primus is like their "God" so he exists in every Universe from what I've read so far.

And Unicron exists in each of the Continuitions since every few series it's a new Transformers story, G1 BW BM and RID were all considered a story together somewhat.

Armada and Energon were together then came Cybertron since each starting series they're on Cybertron then land on Earth are found by teens and the story unfolds.

I could be wrong o.O

[OmegaMaximus]

RiD is it's own little world, nothing to do with G1/BW/BM. It basically goes:

G1 Era - G1/BW/BM

RiD

Unicron Trilogy - Armada/Energon/Cybertron

Animated

There may be many things shared or in common by more than one continuity, but they are all not connected.[/i]

[Tramp]

They are connected, but not directly. They're all part of a greater multiverse. Every reality is interconnected, but separate. the Universe story line first started by 3H, and continued by Fun Publications, and Hasbro through their Universe toy line, drew characters from just about every continuity and universe together. Unicron took TFs from all around the multiverse to fight in a pit, the losers sparks would then be absorbed into his being, thus weakening Primus by draining the Allspark, not in just one reality, but all realities. Optimus Primal was brought back to life to gather a team to free these captive warriors and stop Unicron.

[Night Striker]

Eradicator, this is the simplest way I can explain it okay?

I'm sure you've heard of DC comics. Right? In it there exists something called the Multiverse. Much like there is in Transformers.

Okay so anyone who knows any stuff about DC comics and the glitches and things and the detailed stuff please do not lay into me, I'm trying to make this straight forward and simple. (Yeah...like the DC universe can be simple. )

Anyway, So in there universe there are 52 version of earth. On each earth there is a various version of each hero, from Superman to Batman to the Flash. Each earths hero has his or her own life and their own personality. They are all similar to one another but they are not the same exact person. Following so far?

So like...for example, Superman from Earth one is not the same as Superman from Earth two and so on. No two versions of the character are the same. They may share the same voice but they are not the same person.

So back to TF.

Now there are several alternate realities in TF. Each like the different earths in DC comics. In each reality there exists a version of Cybertron. Depending on that reality, Primus may be the living being inside it, apparently this is true of most, so we can safely assume that his being resides in all realities version of Cyberton to some extent. Much like how the character of Magmatron can use his spak to be inside many bodies at the same time, Primus can do it with Cybertrons, only depending on the reality, it maybe a bit more or less of that spark.

With Unicron, its the same idea. If he's destroyed in one reality then more of his spark escapes to another and keeps regenerating where there is the most amount of energy. This is why he, like Primus, appears in all the realities. It's a variation of the main being. It might not be the exact same unicron as the one from G1, but it is a version of him.

Does that make sense to you?

[Justicity]

G1/BW/BM - One Primus, one Unicron. Unicron defeated in the 80's movie.

RiD - one Primus, one Unicron. Neither were shown or discussed (to my knowledge).

Unicron Trilogy (Armada, Energon, Cybertron) - one Primus, one Unicron. Unicron defeated & Primus revealed.

Animated - one Primus, one Unicron. Who knows yet, we'll find out soon.

Movie - It is assumed there is a Primus & a Unicron for this continuity, however some sources have said there wont be, while some have said it's a possibility.

[DREWCIFER]

Everyone keeps forgetting the Marvel Comix run. There's a whole 'nother universe there. Cybertron is sentient via Primus, but not transformable. He only sends the "Last Autobot" to help out in the end.

However, Unicron is the same being who will f#ck sh!t up in TF:TM. However, there is a mutiverse theory there because Unicron uses Galvetron II to cause some trouble in his(Unicron's) current Universe.

[Uniprimus]

Yeah, yeah, I get the alternate universe thing, but the thing with Primus existing in all while Unicron exists in one universe at a time, I don't understand. Let me tell you what my logic is with it.

Picture, in this universe (non fictional), was a multiverse. Then, each planter in the Multiverse is a universe. Het it? If not, sit and understand this or a bit.




So, in each 'universe', there are alternate things of another. Each 'universe' contains Primus, but there is only one of Unicron, floating around in the 'multiverse' (space), so them Unicron can travel to each 'universe', and there he is that 'universe's' Unicron.

This is my logic from what I have understood, but lately I have been told that there is a Unicron in each 'universe'.

Get it?

[Night Striker]

Basically it's the same Unicron and same Primus, only they've put their powers in different forms of their various counterparts in each reality.

When we say one unicron at a time, I think it means that he's dorment in various realities until he gets woken up and then he "exists" in that reality. That's where his focus is, all other version of that world are moot.

[Tramp]

Yeah, yeah, I get the alternate universe thing, but the thing with Primus existing in all while Unicron exists in one universe at a time, I don't understand. Let me tell you what my logic is with it.

Picture, in this universe (non fictional), was a multiverse. Then, each planter in the Multiverse is a universe. Het it? If not, sit and understand this or a bit.




So, in each 'universe', there are alternate things of another. Each 'universe' contains Primus, but there is only one of Unicron, floating around in the 'multiverse' (space), so them Unicron can travel to each 'universe', and there he is that 'universe's' Unicron.

This is my logic from what I have understood, but lately I have been told that there is a Unicron in each 'universe'.

Get it?

The way it works is that Primus and Unicron each have a single consciousness. Primus' is the Allspark, which is connected to all realities at once. He sees all and is connected to all through his corporial forms within all realities.

[Uniprimus]

So, lemmee see, Primus' and Unicrons' sparks can ggo across the multiverse powering and awakening each of their bodies in each universe?

[Tramp]

Exactly. Though Primus remains connected to all universes at once.

[Damolisher]

And once again, Tramp is trying to feed the wrong answer to innocent people.

Since Transformers is set in different continuities, they're different characters. If they were all the same, when Unicron got blown up in TFTM, or in any comic, he would've been killed in all Universes. No Unicron or Primus is the same in a different continuties. And there are universes with no Unicron or Primus, take RiD for example, none of either. Same goes for the cartoon G1, no Primus, nor was there Primus in Dreamwave's Armada or Energon comics. And originally, there was no Unicron in the Japanese Version of Cybertron, Galaxy Force. Primus in Cybertron/Galaxy Force WAS Cybertron, whereas in Energon, he had no physical shape, in Beast Wars, they talk of Primus, but he's never seen, but in the G1 Cartoon there's no Primus full stop, so take that as you will, but Unicron had been destroyed in the future where the characters from Beast Wars came from, see season 3 of the G1 cartoon for why. In the G1 Marvel COMIC, however, Unicron was MUCH MUCH bigger than Cartoon Unicron, hell, he could've used cartoon Unicron as a tennis ball.

In Armada, Unicron WAS dormant inside Cybertron's moon, whereas the G1 Cartoon's Unicron was just scoping the Universe devouring all in his way and was created by a monkey. However G1 Comic Unicron was trying to destroy the physical universe to create the ultimate darkness, and was seeking out Cybertron to destroy the form Primus took. IN the Marvel Comic, Primus was the consciousness binding Cybertron, and when Primus was killed Cybertron started falling apart.

However, everything was made right in the comics by the Last Autobot, and Unicron STAYED DEAD, regardless of what Tramp is about to say it states in his out of date Ultimate Guide, because the Marvel comic states otherwise to what he says.

(And Tramp once said the Ultimate Guide can't overwrite Marvel's comics, followed by stating straight afterwards they could.)

[Tramp]

No Damolisher, according to canon, Primus exists in all unitverses at once. It isn't different Primuses, and different Unicrons. It's one Primus, and one Unicron in all of the multiverse.

[waaaaghlord]

...everything was made right in the comics by the Last Autobot, and Unicron STAYED DEAD...

Just to add a bit more confusion to that point, that really only accounts for the situation at the end of the Marvel US run. There was also the Marvel UK material that had quite a fleshed out future storyline (post TF:TM) that saw Unicron return several times, first on Junk, then as a discaporeal being imprisoned within the Matrix and corrupting Rodimus and finally the suggested but unseen return in Aspects of Evil. While the UK material started out as compatable with the US material by the end of both books runs they had grown apart somewhat. The Earthforce stories can't really fit into the US run because there simply isn't time for them and the US take on Unicron as well as the G2 comics aren't really compatable with the future storylines from the UK books, as both of these would interfere to a greater or lesser extent on the events of TF:TM coming to pass. Also there was no Primus before the character was introduced in the UK story Legacy of Unicron, that was his first appearance in any media and any future versions have been reworkings of the character as he was portrayed there. There are some subtle differences in the back story of that 'first appearance' Primus and the back story presented in the Ultimate Guide. Both were written by Simon Furman, but since he came up with the character in the first place I guess he's more than entitled to rewrite his origins 20 years on.

[Tramp]

Exactly. And for the record, Hasbro did connect all of the universes together, and determine that Primus was in all universes as the same being, at once. They apparently even retconned it into the cartoon through the 3H publication Wreckers #3, which is part if the Universe story arch. All universes are connected by Primus and Unicron. Primus does exist as a singlular entity in all unvierses at once. It isn't a different Primus and a different Unicron.

[Night Striker]

This is your best bet for connetions to Primus and Unicron spanning time and space, and being in all places at once.

http://www.oafe.net/articulation/0602.php

[waaaaghlord]

Tramp, how are you agreeing with me when my post basicly undermined your entire point? What I was eluding to was that if there was such a thing as a 'true' interpretation of Primus (which of course there isn't) it would be the 'last of the Light Gods' back story from Legacy of Unicron and that anything which came later, ie 'the One' take from the Ultimate Guide would simply be a variation on the theme.

The Ultimate Guide is relatively useless as there's no way that a book of that length can go into enough detail to be a definative reference and the whole 'Primus in all continuities, Unicron in one at a time' notion only becomes relevant in relation to the Universe material and some of the Timelines material as well as being alluded to but not covered in any great depth in the Armada comics.

I'm not saying that the notion isn't considered canon in that context but each fictional continuity is it's own entity. Whatever recent notions may have come along they don't automaticly become retroactive. There have been a great many attempts to marry the various continuities that make up the Transformers 'multiverse' by fans over the years and they are all ultimately doomed to failure simply because not everything ties up and you're always left with a string of contradictions. Just enjoy it for what it is and don't get hung up on the semantics.

In any instance that's my take and if anyone else has a strong opinion to the contary it's not my place to try to sway them.

[craggy]

"It never ends"!!!! or: Here we go again.

The inability for some people (not naming names but I'm sure many of you can guess) to accept other information than that which they have chosen as their own personally accepted continuity makes me cry a little inside.

[Tramp]

Tramp, how are you agreeing with me when my post basicly undermined your entire point? What I was eluding to was that if there was such a thing as a 'true' interpretation of Primus (which of course there isn't) it would be the 'last of the Light Gods' back story from Legacy of Unicron and that anything which came later, ie 'the One' take from the Ultimate Guide would simply be a variation on the theme.

The Ultimate Guide is relatively useless as there's no way that a book of that length can go into enough detail to be a definative reference and the whole 'Primus in all continuities, Unicron in one at a time' notion only becomes relevant in relation to the Universe material and some of the Timelines material as well as being alluded to but not covered in any great depth in the Armada comics.

I'm not saying that the notion isn't considered canon in that context but each fictional continuity is it's own entity. Whatever recent notions may have come along they don't automaticly become retroactive. There have been a great many attempts to marry the various continuities that make up the Transformers 'multiverse' by fans over the years and they are all ultimately doomed to failure simply because not everything ties up and you're always left with a string of contradictions. Just enjoy it for what it is and don't get hung up on the semantics.

In any instance that's my take and if anyone else has a strong opinion to the contary it's not my place to try to sway them.

Ultimately, what you wrote didn't undermine what I had said, particularly the last sentence referring to Simon Furman. The Ultimate Guide, does indeed make minor retcons to all the continuities in regards to Primus and Unicron by Simon Furman, who was authorized to do so. Much of the retcons in that book are not new either. They come from the [u]Universe[/i] story line first put forth in the 3H comics for BotCon, including retroactively bringing Primus into the G1 cartoon universe in Wrecckers #3. The very fact that Armada alluded to them also validates them, even if it doesn't go into great detail. Hasbro's Universe story line for their toy line also connects all of the continuities together as part of an interconnected multiverse with a single Primus and single Unicron. As Unicron seeks to destroy Primus from all of existance through weakening the Allspark by forcing Transformers from all over the multiverse into fighting in a pit and then consuming the sparks of the losers, thus forever depriving the Allspark of their sparks. Thus, all of the continuities are interconnected by Primus and Unicron.

The Ultimate Guide simply consolidates all of this vital information into one sourcebook. It records the retcons already established by Hasbro, while still maintaining the integrity of the individual continuities themselves.

[Malicron]

"It never ends"!!!! or: Here we go again.

The inability for some people (not naming names but I'm sure many of you can guess) to accept other information than that which they have chosen as their own personally accepted continuity makes me cry a little inside.

I feel your pain. I've said in other treads, constant back and forth arguing can kill a tread.
As for the actual question, yes, Universe did connect all the continuities and said that Primus is in all continuities at once. Weather you accept that or not is a matter of opinion. PERSONALLY, I like Tramps theory of all the continuities are LOOSELY connected. DIRECTLY, G1, Beast Wars/Machines are one continuity, RID an other, and the Unicron trilogy a third.

[Night Striker]

Here's the thing, Alternators basically linked all the contunity to a nexus of worm holes that showed up in that worlds reality. No they are not linked but they are loosely connected by various thread, including Universe.

But I point out that Universe was basically a fanfiction effort and exculsive to Botcon. On the other hand Alternators are supposed to take that place. The sad thing is that Hasbro can't bring over the booklets due to the car companys not being okay with it. =_=

*pats both Whiner-tron and Craggy on the head with a knowing and compassionate nod*

[i_amtrunks]

No Damolisher, according to canon, Primus exists in all unitverses at once. It isn't different Primuses, and different Unicrons. It's one Primus, and one Unicron in all of the multiverse.

Botcon retcon made it so that Primus is the same entity across all Universes, even though the inhabitants of Cybertron/Primus differ greatly...

Unicron travels from Universe to Universe, like a giant mechanoid Slider...

[Night Striker]

Are the botcon stories offical though in the same sense as the Marvel, DW, IDW, and UK comics and cartoon series are? Or is it just another alternete? I'm all for the idea of a sliding Unicron, would explain why the black hole opens in Armada.